POSH - Port Out, Starboard Home.. please explain

Hi! I thought there was this saying about which side to book for a transatlantic crossing. My friend said "POSH" is the thing I was thinking of, but it applied to sailings to India, not transatlantic.

 

If it IS a transatlantic saying, then whose "home" is it? Is it a UK resident saying?

 

What's true? What's the best side for a Westbound (UK to US) transatlantic in a balcony?

 

Thanks in advance! :)

Haven't done a transatlantic yet, but I would assume that you would want the sun on your side of the ship as much as possible. Sailing west you would want the port side, sailing east would be starboard. POSH would apply to someone sailing from the UK.

 

If you were sailing to India, it might have more to do with the view. More likely to be able to see things ashore using POSH. All of you experienced mariners, am I correct?

refers to passages to India....and is the side of the ship that is in the shade.

In theory, POSH refers to sailings to India. "Port Out Starboard Home" was the shady/cool side of the ship, with "home" being Britain.

 

In reality, the whole thing was probably a myth. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "The suggestion that this word is derived from the initials of ‘port outward, starboard home’, referring to the more expensive side for accommodation on ships formerly travelling between England and India, is often put forward but lacks foundation." I suspect the Oxford English Dictionary ought to know more about etymology than any of us here, so I'll leave it at that...

 

On another note, this is, fascinatingly, not the first time I've seen this referred to in the context of Atlantic crossings. The magazine Power & Motoryacht, which I read, each month has a little "quiz" with a few bits of nautical trivia (with answers). In their February 2004 issue, one of the questions was, "What's the etymology of 'posh'?" The utterly ridiculous answer provided was, "It was an acronym the British elite used for the type of transatlantic passage with the best views: Port Outbound Starboard Home."

 

Now, not only were they not even giving the "correct" version of this myth by saying that it applied to transatlantic passage rather than passage to India, but they managed to further muddy the whole business by saying that it had to do with the best view! This is truly puzzling - why on earth would one side of the ship have a better view when you're in the middle of the Atlantic? Wouldn't the water look the same from either side of the ship?

 

At any rate I naturally sent a letter to the editor correcting them (my very first letter to an editor actually), which was published a few months later (I forget which month), in case any of you read the magazine and remember the letter ;) ... I am not in favor of spreading myths, but if they're going tod o it they'd ought to at least get the proper versions thereof ;) ...

 

Just how anyone got the idea that 'POSH' pertained to Atlantic voyages I don't know, but it seems to be out there.

 

So you can tell your friend that not only did POSH have nothing to do with Atlantic crossings, but that the whole acronym theory has been pretty much disproved anyway.

As others have said, it (maybe) originated as the acronym for Port Outbound Starbord Home = POSH when sailing from England to India. Tickets were annotated "POSH", and it was considered "the best" accomodations because it was in the days of pre air conditioning and it was cooler and more comfortable to be on the shady side of the ship coming and going. It caught on, and the word "Posh", meant anything that was kind of shi-shi foo-foo. As time progressed it referred to not just ship travel but anything. Haven't you ever been to an affair that was very "posh", or at least heard other folks referring to it as such? It wouldn't make any sence anyway when referring to a trans-Atlantic sailing. When you are traveling England to India, you are going north to south, so the sun (east and west) would be on the left or the right. If you are going trans-Atlantic, you're going east/west, so the sun would be on the front/back of the ship, so there really is no "sunny" or "shady" side.

Since the transatlantic crossings are mostly in northern lattitudes, there will definitely be a sunny side of the ship. If you want your cabin to face south for the most sun, POSH would apply for someone sailing from Europe. Agreed, it wasn't the original meaning, but works for me.

In theroy yes, but in reality, I think in over a dozen trans-Atlantic sailings, we've seen the sun a grand total of 4 days!!

Ditto regarding your likelihood of even seeing the sun! In two transatlantics, I think we also had maybe 5 sunny days total. Funny thing was that I worried about the "best" side of the ship also and reserving a deck chair. It was so cold, windy, and even foggy a couple of days it didn't matter.

 

Mostly the weather is chilly enough even in midsummer that you would welcome the sun if you had a balcony. This would probably mean you would want a port cabin on the westbound and starboard cabin on the eastbound trip.

 

Better to worry about getting a low, midships cabin in case of bad weather.

In theory, POSH refers to sailings to India. "Port Out Starboard Home" was the shady/cool side of the ship, with "home" being Britain.

 

In reality, the whole thing was probably a myth. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "The suggestion that this word is derived from the initials of ‘port outward, starboard home’, referring to the more expensive side for accommodation on ships formerly travelling between England and India, is often put forward but lacks foundation." I suspect the Oxford English Dictionary ought to know more about etymology than any of us here, so I'll leave it at that...

 

...

.

 

In recent years the P&O claimed in some of their brochures that it was their line that coined the term P.O.S.H. The repeat passengers' club was even called the POSH Club until being revamped and renamed "Portunus" last year. I still treasure my POSH Club tie, especially since the club no longer exists.

 

David,

Mississauga, Canada

In recent years the P&O claimed in some of their brochures that it was their line that coined the term P.O.S.H.

David,

 

In questions over the derivation of a word, - I would put my faith in the etymologists of the OED over the P&O Marketing department any day. There is further background here: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pos1.htm

 

Peter

My take on it has always been 'port out starboard home' in reference to sea trips to India during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Also, let's not forget that shipping lines other than P&O were also involved on this route.

 

The crux of the expression seems to boil down to the use of money - shaded port side cabins in pre airconditioned ships sailing east would be considerably more expensive than those on the starboard side (likewise starboard cabins sailing west). Hence when money is spent on something more than is necessary, it is POSH - like flying 1st class or sailing in a suite!

 

My father (a merchant seaman in the 1920's and 30's) always used this explanation of the term so with no other viable explanation (urban myth or not) it's good enough for me.

My take on it has always been 'port out starboard home' in reference to sea trips to India during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Also, let's not forget that shipping lines other than P&O were also involved on this route.

Certainly - but nobody has ever found any evidence of this from the period. That is, no tickets with "POSH" scrawled on them, no mentions of "POSH" in period accounts, etc. It seems to have surfaced in the '20s or '30s.

 

I have also seen it pointed out that most ships of the era had their cabins located along the centreline, that is, there were no port or starboard side cabins on these ships, so the expression would have been absolutely impossible.

 

My father (a merchant seaman in the 1920's and 30's) always used this explanation of the term

The '20s/'30s was actually right aroud the time the term became popularised.

 

so with no other viable explanation (urban myth or not) it's good enough for me.

Actually there have been a number of other viable explanations put forward.

The crux of the expression seems to boil down to the use of money...My father (a merchant seaman in the 1920's and 30's) always used this explanation of the term so with no other viable explanation (urban myth or not) it's good enough for me.

KenC,

 

Your father's use of the term from his merchant seaman days in the 20s & 30s IS consistent with what we DO know of its derivation:

 

"...posh in its modern sense was a military slang term from the first world war. Its first appearance is in the magazine Punch in September 1918, in which an RAF officer is saying to his mother 'Oh yes, Mater, we had a posh time of it down there'

 

Source: POSH and other Language Myths, Michael Quinion, 2004.

 

Net 'Posh as myth' has now cited three sources which debunk Port Out, Starboard Home....anyone like to cite a published source in support?

 

Peter

That seems to put the kybosh on that theory, now where did that word come from?

 

David.

It seems a little inconvenient to me to be on one side of the ship for half of the cruise, and then have your things packed up and move to the other side of the ship for the last half of the cruise. Was this really what people considered "the best"? Very odd.

Charlotte

 

Think line voyage - not cruise. (they weren't usually marketed as for-pleasure round trips!)

 

Michael

These people were used to being moved around, spending the year flitting about from one residence to another depending on the season, as our Royal familly still do. They would also change their dress numerous times during the day, so to have the servants move them port to starboard would be no problem to them.

 

David.