QUEEN VICTORIA (1) Interior Renderings!

I was lucky enough to obtain these interior renderings of QUEEN VICTORIA. Keep in mind these are from the first QV, now going to P&O.

What do you think?

Ernie

[img]http://images6.fotki.com/v82/photos/7/72533/371141/QVGoldenLionPub-vi.jpg?1086222869[/img]

[img]http://images5.fotki.com/v85/photos/7/72533/371141/QVAquitaniaRestaurant-vi.jpg?1086222862[/img]

I think these are from a flyer printed by Cunard just before they transferred QV (I) to P&O. There are a couple more, smaller, unlabelled ones too.

As to what I think - the Golden Lion Pub looks terribly kitsch but at the same time at least there's nothing even remotely like it on the HAL ships (that should be taken as a compliment by HAL and VFD!). The dining room is very obviously pretty much the same as on an HAL Vista-class ship... OK, the colors are different, and so are the chairs, and other relatively minor details, but it's the same room nevertheless and would be instantly familiar to any of us who have been on a Vista-class ship.

Doug Newman
Cruise Critic Message Boards Host
e-mail: shiploverny AT yahoo DOT com

Ernie,

You'll know the Golden Lion from the QM2 - how does it compare? Almost anything would be an improvement on the QE2 Golden Lion....that said its very 'Queen Vic/Rovers Return' (local pubs in two UK Soaps, Eastenders, Coronation Street).

The dining room looks like the photos of the Westerdam dining room on the HAL site....minus the imagination/flair. I haven't sailed on a Vista class - but from the deck plan in truth it looks like two dining rooms one on top of each other with a small hole in the middle - unfair?

Peter

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by guernseyguy:
[B]I haven't sailed on a Vista class - but from the deck plan in truth it looks like two dining rooms one on top of each other with a small hole in the middle - unfair?[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not unfair Peter - completely true. Most of the open space in between the two levels of the dining room is taken up by a very un-grand "grand staircase" and a musician's balcony that is positioned so that most people can't hear the music. Not a very well-designed space, and not very attractively decorated on ZUIDERDAM either.

Doug Newman
Cruise Critic Message Boards Host
e-mail: shiploverny AT yahoo DOT com

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by guernseyguy:
Ernie,

You'll know the Golden Lion from the QM2 - how does it compare? Almost anything would be an improvement on the QE2 Golden Lion....that said its very 'Queen Vic/Rovers Return' (local pubs in two UK Soaps, Eastenders, Coronation Street).

The dining room looks like the photos of the Westerdam dining room on the HAL site....minus the imagination/flair. I haven't sailed on a Vista class - but from the deck plan in truth it looks like two dining rooms one on top of each other with a small hole in the middle - unfair?

Peter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter,
The Golden Lion Pub looks ok. I think it's probably better looking then either the QE2's or QM2's. It does remind me a bit of the Wheelhouse Bar on Princess ships. I think I see a pool table in there which is interesting. Judging from the openness of the bottom I would say it's not self-leveling. Probably not the most practical thing to have onboard ship if it's not.

I think the dining room looks pretty hideous. It reminds me exactly of a HAL Vista Class dining room and I think those are butt-ugly and poorly designed with that tiny center "atrium" if you can call it that.

Maybe it's better off this ship went to P&O and we can hope for something better with QV2. Whether or not that will be the case is anyone's guess. I imagine the same designers are being used and I wonder how much Cunard/Carnival Corp. will spend to change the interior layout?

Ernie

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eroller:
[B]The Golden Lion Pub looks ok. I think it's probably better looking then either the QE2's or QM2's.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not having been in either of those I might be inclined to say that it is. Still very kitsch though, as are the Wheelhouse bars on the Princess ships for that matter. In fact almost any English Pub that isn't at least 100 years old (give or take a few) comes off as very kitsch. That includes every shipboard "English Pub" I can think of.

Someone mentioned to me privately that that room looks rather like a combination of a pub and a library or gentlemen's club and I have to agree. The bookshelves, the overstuffed sofas and armchairs, the coffee tables... Very "library". The booths, the wooden chairs, the billiards table (good catch, I didn't even notice it), etc. are definitely "pub".

One thing that is definitely an improvement over QM2's is the ceiling which actually looks vaguely old/authentic. On QM2 it seems to be a generic DAMPA modular metal-strip ceiling that helped greatly to contribute to my initial impression of this room from the first photos I'd seen, which is that it looked like one of the many "English Pubs" that a certain Robert Tillberg (sound familiar [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] ?) did for innumerable ferries in the '80s and early '90s... Very PRINCE OF SCANDINAVIA Admiral's Pub if you will.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]I think the dining room looks pretty hideous. It reminds me exactly of a HAL Vista Class dining room and I think those are butt-ugly and poorly designed[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And people thought I was critical of those ships [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] ?

Seriously, at least the one on ZUIDERDAM was ugly, and there is no doubt that all of them are poorly designed. The one on QV looks marginally less ugly (not as RED - ZUIDERDAM had way too much bright red) but no doubt every bit as poorly designed. And that grand staircase/atrium/musician's balcony thing is a failure on all counts; one of a few examples on those ships of things that are trying to be several things all at once and manages to be terrible at all of them (I'm also thinking of the atrocious Queens Lounge here, a space that is virtually useless because it is so crippled by compromise).

Yet for all these failings I actually thought the Vista-class ships, on balance, really are not bad. Not great, but not bad, and for every terribly ugly area on them, there seems to be another that's quite stunning (and I mean that in a positive way).

Anyhow, it's just struck me that one of the other, smaller renderings that came in that same flyer was of the showroom. I may try to scan it, if I can't; it was absolutely IDENTICAL to an HAL Vista-class showroom just in a different color scheme (again - not RED, thank goodness). Even the trademark silk-parachute ceiling treatment (which was actually the best part of the room, except that ZUIDERDAM's managed to have an uncanny resemblance to the logo of the Target discount stores; that was a running joke on the ship all week - "we'll see you in the Target room" etc.) was there, though thankfully again without the excruciatingly bright color scheme.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]Maybe it's better off this ship went to P&O and we can hope for something better with QV2. Whether or not that will be the case is anyone's guess. I imagine the same designers are being used and I wonder how much Cunard/Carnival Corp. will spend to change the interior layout?[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is, of course, the big question. Rumor has it that QUEEN VICTORIA will be based off the next generation of HAL ships, after the Vista-class. Initially that sounded like good news. The bad news is that the next generation of HAL ships will apparently be... Yes, you guessed it... Based on the Vista-class! Apparently they will be Vista-class ships with fewer cabins and other enhancements. So I guess the new QUEEN VICTORIA will be the first in a "new" class of ships that will also go to HAL, but which won't be new at all. How different QUEEN VICTORIA will be from the HAL versions, and how different any of them will be from the Vista-class ships, remains to be seen.

Doug Newman
Cruise Critic Message Boards Host
e-mail: shiploverny AT yahoo DOT com

Doug,
This speculation about HAL's next generation being based off the current Vista Class is disturbing. Anything to save a buck. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] Certainly Carnival is getting their money's worth out of this hull and mechanical design.

HAL was surprisingly vocal about a "next generation" ship for them after the Vista Class. One thing they mentioned was that it would be smaller, somewhere between the current S-Class and Vista Class. When they mentioned smaller, I was thinking the entire ship, not just passenger capacity.

I had really hoped we would see something new with HAL's next generation. Something more than another tweaked Vista Class. I can still hope that is the case until confirmed otherwise.

I still don't understand why Carnival needs all these different brands if they are going to use practically the same ship design for Carnival, Costa, Holland America, Cunard, and P&O. Seems like a waste .... but again anything to save a buck, and the general public won't notice, right?

Ernie

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eroller:
[B]This speculation about HAL's next generation being based off the current Vista Class is disturbing.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Indeed it is. But it comes from someone who should know what he's talking about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]HAL was surprisingly vocal about a "next generation" ship for them after the Vista Class. One thing they mentioned was that it would be smaller, somewhere between the current S-Class and Vista Class. When they mentioned smaller, I was thinking the entire ship, not just passenger capacity.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As was I. I was really looking forward to a totally new, smaller design from HAL. Now it sounds like that might not be coming any time soon. Too bad.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]I still don't understand why Carnival needs all these different brands if they are going to use practically the same ship design [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
They definintely are converging at an alarming rate. It seems like aside from QM2, every newbuild in the whole group will either be a derivative of the DESTINY-class, the SPIRIT/Vista-class, or the GRAND-class. That is, until the new "Ultimate" project comes out, but that could be shared by Carnival and Princess too.

Doug Newman
Cruise Critic Message Boards Host
e-mail: shiploverny AT yahoo DOT com

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Host Doug:

Indeed it is. But it comes from someone who should know what he's talking about.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have my fair share of contacts at HAL. I have not heard this yet, but it doesn't surprise me as each Carnival Corp. brands strives to save money.

I'll be waiting for confirmation.

Ernie

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eroller:
[B]I have my fair share of contacts at HAL. I have not heard this yet[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm surprised you haven't - it's from someone you know.

Doug Newman
Cruise Critic Message Boards Host
e-mail: shiploverny AT yahoo DOT com

I have just seen the latest P&O 2005 brochure containing the new Arcadia (ex QV) and I have to say that I think Cunard did well to have her transferred to P&O because the layout is 100% identical to the HAL Vistas and they would have deserved to get flamed for that.

The only differences I can spot are solely in the names of the bars/lounges etc and the addition of what would have been the Queen's Grill above Sun Deck (now The Orchid - alternative dining). The circular HAL Queens Room is there (now called The Globe) as is the nightclub (Electra) with the same HAL semi-circular booth seating. The Rising Sun is the new name of Cunard's Golden Lion Pub (expect it to look identical) and is located in place of the HAL Sports and Piano Bars. Even the cabin layouts are more or less identical to HAL [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

The published thumbnail illustrations are very similar in style to those done for QM2, look remarkably similar to the early sketches shown above and are much more Cunard in style than P&O. All in all I think a cruise on Arcadia will be like one on QV1 in all but name!!!!

Who knows what QV2 will be like, but hopefully somewhere a penny has dropped and Cunard / Carnival recognise that they can't pass a HAL Vista off as a Cunard Queen just by painting it in different colours [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

Having said that, I think Arcadia will be a superb addition to P&O - and doesn't a Vista look good all in white [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Shame on Cunard for not changing the general arrangement around to better suit the Cunard image. A different name and funnel do not a Cunard liner make! I was skeptical from the very first day QV1 was announced that it would be nothing more than a HAL Vista Class knock-off. And all the BS Cunard touted about QV1 being a "liner" in the best Cunard tradition, etc. I was told by several persons considered "in the know" that QV1 would be different. Tailored to Cunard with the general arrangement changed as well. I guess they were all wrong judging by what Ken has seen in the latest P&O brochure. We can only hope that QV2 will be something more unique and in line with Cunard's heritage.

When will Carnival Corp. learn that one ship design does not suit all brands. I don't care how much you change it around. In fact if all you are going to do is change the names and funnel designs, why bother having different brands in the first place? It seems like a huge waste of money.

I have heard that Carnival's #1 priority right now is the next generation Carnival Cruise Lines ship coming in at 180,000 gt. This is where the majority of Carnival's resources are allocated at the moment, and all other projects are taking a back seat.

Ernie

This discussion is a bit off kilter in that no consideration is being given to the complexities and timetable required for the design and construction of a large cruise ship. The HAL vista class ship that was briefly Queen Victoria was completely designed and well into construction when it was transferred from HAL to Cunard. Other than making superficial decor changes there was no practical opportunity to make any significant change to the size or shape of the arrangement of public rooms or staterooms. It could ONLY be a HAL ship with a Cunard name. I strongly suspect that Cunard did not want that ship at all. And I also suspect that Pam Connover won a boardroom battle to get rid of it and to have the opportunity to design a new ship that will be much more in keeping with the Cunard style.

There is now enough time before construction starts to design a Cunard style ship sitting on a vista class hull. A vista class hull means little more than a panamax hull that is 951 ft. in length with a beam of 106 ft. which will support a ship of approximately 85,000 tons. It will most likely be powered by a combination of diesel generators and a jet turbine co-generation plant. Propulsion will be by pods and bow thrusters. Vista class ships have a design speed of 22 knots. This can probably be slightly increased, if desired, but Queen Victoria will NEVER be a 30 knot ocean liner. It will be a cruise ship, period. Arrangement of the heavy machinery can be adjusted during design to balance a superstructure and interior space arrangement that is different from the vista class ships. I doubt that the final result will look like a smaller version of Queen Mary 2 (a mini-Mary???), but the successful elements of the QM2 will be included; Queen's grill, Princess grill, Queen's room, large library, pub, wrap around promenade, 2 story suites, more suites than on vista class ships, etc. The Queen Victoria will never have the spacious feel of QM2, but it will not be an intimate ship. If Cunard is smart they will reduce the passenger capacity from the vista class double occupancy of 1850 down to something between 1500 to 1600 passengers and will increase the crew accomodations by 100 to 150. That would go a long way to correct the major error made with QM2; not enough staff to meet the service level expected by Cunard passengers. Only with high levels of service can Cunard expect to maintain their premium pricing.

It will be very interesting to see what the Cunard design team can do with all the compromises that will be necessary.

Bill

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sailorbill:
[B]This discussion is a bit off kilter in that no consideration is being given to the complexities and timetable required for the design and construction of a large cruise ship.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the point here is that the ship should never have been given to Cunard to begin with.

Then again, before Carnival owned P&O, the question might be, who should the ship have gone to if HAL could not use it? (Costa?)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]I also suspect that Pam Connover won a boardroom battle to get rid of it and to have the opportunity to design a new ship that will be much more in keeping with the Cunard style.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Only time will tell whether the new QUEEN VICTORIA is a new design or not. My guess is that, while she will be more "Cunard-esque" than ARCADIA, she will not be a new design, but another modified Vista-class.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]It will most likely be powered by a combination of diesel generators and a jet turbine co-generation plant.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
One of the changes that was made in the design of QUEEN VICTORIA/ARCADIA compared to the HAL Vista-class ships was the elmination of the gas turbine in favor of a sixth diesel generator.

I'm not sure if this change was also made on WESTERDAM and/or will be made on NOORDAM as well, or why it was done.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]If Cunard is smart they will reduce the passenger capacity from the vista class double occupancy of 1850 down to something between 1500 to 1600[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ARCADIA has fewer suites than HAL's Vista-class ships and carries about 1950 passengers.

I believe Cunard has already announced a capacity of 1850 passengers for the new QUEEN VICTORIA.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[B]It will be very interesting to see what the Cunard design team can do with all the compromises that will be necessary.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Indeed it will be. Of course this is pure speculation (with a little credible rumor thrown in for good measure) but my guess is that we will wind up with another superficially changed Vista-class ship.

Now, as for what I'd like to see - take a look at [url="http://www.onnoheesbeen.com/Vista.html"]this[/url], a design study by Dutch industrial designer and ship enthusiast Onno Heesbeen. His design looks so good that I might not even mind Cunard calling her a QUEEN! Unfortunately I think we will see something that looks a lot more like the first QUEEN VICTORIA than this design does.

Doug Newman
Cruise Critic Message Boards Host
e-mail: shiploverny AT yahoo DOT com

Sailorbill

Beg to differ, a lot of what you say makes sense but QV had to wait a year from when she was 'transferred' to Cunard to when her keel was laid. If they had time to add an extra 'Grill deck', don't see why they couldn't have made other alterations to the General Arrangement.

Regards

Ken

Hi Doug,

I like the renderings of the QV by Onno Heesbeen. His proposal has the appearance of a true Cunard ship. It is too bad that Carnival is building so many Vista-class ships with little (or no) distinction between brands. I prefer the approach that Royal Caribbean International took with the MILLENNIUM/RADIANCE class of ships. The Royal Caribbean ships are unique from the Celebrity ships but are built on the same platform to save costs. Thus, brand identity has been maintained at an affordable cost.

Chuck

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