W/chair accessible cabins

Hi folks, does anybody know if any UK ,US or other countries cruise lines require doctors notes/ medical note as proof to be able to book a w/chair accessible cabin ?

Thanks Fiona 2.

Hi folks, does anybody know if any UK ,US or other countries cruise lines require doctors notes/ medical note as proof to be able to book a w/chair accessible cabin ?

 

Thanks Fiona 2.

All cruise lines require you to fill in a medical questionaire detailing why you need a HC cabin, this is sent out immediately after your booking.

Hi terrierjohn ,thanks for your reply, yes i know the form you mean but i was wondering if any cruise lines actually ask for medical proof (ie doctors note)before u can book a w/chair accessible/ hc cabin?

Fiona 2

Cruise lines offering cruises from American ports do not ask for a doctor's note. The US has a law we refer to as ADA which prohibits them from asking what our disability is although they can of course ask us what type of accomodation we need. Lines which are Europe based all year long I have no idea about.

Hi terrierjohn ,thanks for your reply, yes i know the form you mean but i was wondering if any cruise lines actually ask for medical proof (ie doctors note)before u can book a w/chair accessible/ hc cabin?

Fiona 2

Fiona, If you really need an HC cabin you should have no worries about booking one, however I hope you don't just want a bigger cabin.

Fiona, is there a particular reason why you're worried about this? The only line that asked me for proof was Regent. But if you're asking because you don't actually need an accessible cabin, I would strongly advise that you don't book these cabins unless you or someone you're traveling with actually needs that cabin.

Hi Darcie ,yes i do require a w/chair accessible cabin it is the very reason that im asking because they are being booked by poeple that dont genuinely need them and was wondering what cruise lines protect against this happening ?

Cruise lines offering cruises from American ports do not ask for a doctor's note. The US has a law we refer to as ADA which prohibits them from asking what our disability is although they can of course ask us what type of accomodation we need. Lines which are Europe based all year long I have no idea about.

Though ADA Laws and Federal Privacy Lawsprohibit the cruise lines from asking what the specific medical or or physical disabiliy, the Law that want into effect on January 1, 2012( which is actually part of ADA Law) state that any Cruise Ship originating sail from a USA Port may require a written attestation from the individual that the accessible cabin is for a person who has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the cabin. This attestation is well within the legal scope of both ADA Law and Federal Privacy Laws as the individual is not having disclosed their actual medical condition rather only certifying that they have a medical and or physical disability that requires the need for the features contained within an HC Accessible Cabin.

Following is a brief summary of the new law :

As of January 1, 2012 a new Federal Law under the Department of Transportation ( commonly referred to as DOT) became effective that requires that the

the cruise lines have to verify that the person occupying the cabin has a medical or physical need to book the cabin . Though this new regulation came about in 2010/2011, the cruise lines were granted until January 1, 2012 to completely comply with these new regulations. Because of this new law Cruise lines have also had to reclassify its HC cabins. Some of the key points to this new law are:

(g) To prevent fraud in the assignment of accessible cabins (e.g., attempts by individuals who do not have disabilities to reserve accessible cabins because they have greater space, you—

(1) Must inquire of persons seeking to reserve such cabins whether the individual (or an individual for whom the cabin is being reserved) has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the cabin.

(2) May require a written attestation from the individual that accessible cabin is for a person who has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the cabin.

Under the new laws the only time it's acceptable for an able body person to book an HC cabin is after the final payment period has past and any unsold HC cabins are than open to the general public for booking.

It's important to note that this law only applies to Cruises that originate from a USA Port. It does not apply to cruises originating outside of the USA.

Thanks xxoocruiser for that, very interesting. Do you know if the law has reduced the number of people falsely booking an accessible cabin and has anyone been prosecuted?

I booked an accessible cabin on a Royal Caribbean cruise for my mom who is a wheelchair user. When I made the booking, I was emailed the form asking about her needs. In the email that came with the form was a note that if the form was not returned within 45 days, the cabin could be reallocated. I am not certain how often people don't return the forms or how often they reallocate cabins. It may be an empty threat.

I've also noticed that several hotels have added a "check box" that you have to click stating that someone in the room requires the accessible features when you book an accessible room online.

I don't know if the forms and "check boxes" are a real deterrant for someone who is booking an accessible cabin/hotel room to get more space. It's really just an honor system. If someone wants extra space bad enough, I assume they would be willing to lie on a form about having a disability to get the extra cabin space.

I am not certain, but I don't believe that there is a means of prosecuting someone for booking an accessible room without a need for it in the new ADA laws. It seems to be entirely up to the supplier of the room (cruiseline, hotel, resort) to monitor and enforce whether the person booking requires the room. Even if someone who doesn't really need it is "caught" booking an accessible room, that person can always use the excuse that they had a temporary inner ear infection that made them feel dizzy so they felt safer in a room with grab bars for the toilet and shower. I've heard that before.

Excerpt from CFR 49 Part 39.39: (h) You must investigate the potential misuse of accessible cabins where there is good cause to believe that such cabins have been purchased fraudulently, and you may take appropriate action against someone who has reserved or purchased such a cabin fraudulently. For example, if an individual who does not have a disability reserves an accessible cabin, after having attested that he or she has a mobility disability, you may deny transportation to the individual.

From a personal standpoint, I try to avoid accessible rooms unless I am with my mom. As a 6-ft tall woman, I find the annoyance of the accessible features outweighs any benefit of having more space. Accessible rooms generally have lower sinks, lower shower heads, lower mirrors, less closet space, less furniture, and, in most cases, a shower that drains water all over the floor. When I'm not travelling with my mom, I'm usually with my husband and he is even taller than me so he really hates accessible rooms. Besides, a smaller cabin gives me an excuse to rub against him if we try to pass through the tight spaces at the same time. ;)

Thanks xxoocruiser for that, very interesting. Do you know if the law has reduced the number of people falsely booking an accessible cabin and has anyone been prosecuted?

As the previos posted already stated this would be a hard thing to prosecute . Besides prosecution( if even allowable under the law ????) would be a last resort as both Hotels and Cruise Lines ,which this law is directed towards, would work very hard to avoid any negative publicity. Instead the hotels and cruise line would first try relocation to a non-accessible room or cabin . If the individual refuses they could be denied transportation from the cruiseline and potentially banned from future cruise with that line as stated by the previous post in paragrapg (H) of this law. jus the same with hotel hotel the person could be denied another room at that facilitry and possibly banned for future bookings.

Cruise lines offering cruises from American ports do not ask for a doctor's note. The US has a law we refer to as ADA which prohibits them from asking what our disability is although they can of course ask us what type of accomodation we need. Lines which are Europe based all year long I have no idea about.

XXOOCruiser already addressed the legislation part, so I'm not repeating that again. Just posting to add that there in practice your statement also isn't correct.

Disney cruiselines is one line that does ask for a doc to sign their forms. Not just on certain itineraries; on ALL. Have been doing so for years. They don't ask for "diagnosis or else............" but they do specifically about needs etc. Quite comparable to some other forms of some other cruiselines but with the addition of asking for a docs signature, docs info etc. They do keep it on file, so for a next cruise they simply pull your file and no need to repeat unless needs have become altered or more demanding.

For my first DCL cruise, I ended up deciding to actively inform the onboard medical team about my diagnosis and what it means for my health. Mostly because of "in case of emergency", whether it being my health or coming from other factors. Unfortunately I did end up needing medical help on that cruise and it resulted in me only being all the more glad I did. Turns out the medical team absolutely went above and beyond by actively educating themselves about my syndrome before the day of embarkation was even there. I have a very unknown syndrome, so any docs knowing anything about it is already huge. Let alone one proactively reading up just in case. I did end up needing it and it definately made a difference in the treatment. Not just that, but during my visits there I'ld come to learn that the team decided to stock up on some items a bit more for this cruise after doing some reading up on my syndrome. Obviously it's ones own decision what information they want to provide or not and to whom when there are no possible safety or general health risks, but providing a bit more info isn't always that negative.

FYI - Following is the complete law as written and recorded in the USA Federal Registry. Again it needs to be clearly stressed that this Law only applies to Cruise Ships that originate its sailing from a USA Port.

IMPORTANT : The "YOU" stated in the following points refers to the Cruise Line .

§ 39.39

How do PVOs ensure that passengers with disabilities are able to use accessible cabins?

(a) As a PVO operating a vessel that has accessible cabins, you must follow the requirements of this part to ensure that passengers with disabilities who need accessible cabins have nondiscriminatory access to them.

(b) You must, with respect to reservations made by any means (e.g., telephone, Internet, in person, or through a third party):

(1) Modify your policies, practices, or procedures to ensure that individuals with disabilities can make reservations for accessible cabins during the same hours and in the same manner as individuals who do not need accessible cabins;

(2) Identify and describe accessible features in the cabins offered through your reservations service in enough detail to permit individuals with disabilities to assess independently whether a given cabin meets his or her accessibility needs.

(3) Ensure that accessible cabins are held for use by individuals with disabilities until all other cabins in that class of service have been rented;

(4) Reserve accessible cabins upon request by a passenger with disabilities and ensure that the specific accessible cabin reserved by that passenger is held for him or her, even you do not normally hold specific cabins for passengers who make reservations.

© You may release unsold accessible cabins to persons without disabilities for their own use when all other cabins in the same class of service and price for a voyage have been reserved.

(d) If a passenger with a disability seeks to reserve an accessible cabin in a given class of service, and there is not an available accessible cabin in that class of service, but there is an available accessible cabin in a different class of service, you must allow the passenger to reserve that accessible cabin at the price of the requested class of service of the class of service in which the accessible cabin exists, whichever is lower.

(e) As a PVO, you are never required to deny transportation to any passenger who has already reserved passage in order to accommodate a passenger with a disability in an accessible cabin.

(f) You must not require proof of disability, including, for example, a doctor's note, before reserving an accessible cabin.

(g) To prevent fraud in the assignment of accessible cabins (e.g., attempts by individuals who do not have disabilities to reserve accessible cabins because they have greater space, you—

(1) Must inquire of persons seeking to reserve such cabins whether the individual (or an individual for whom the cabin is being reserved) has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the cabin.

(2) May require a written attestation from the individual that accessible cabin is for a person who has a mobility disability or a disability that requires the use of the accessible features that are provided in the cabin.

(h) You must investigate the potential misuse of accessible cabins where there is good cause to believe that such cabins have been purchased fraudulently, and you may take appropriate action against someone who has reserved or purchased such a cabin fraudulently. For example, if an individual who does not have a disability reserves an accessible cabin, after having attested that he or she has a mobility disability, you may deny transportation to the individual.

The following is also included in this Law .

§ 39.41

May a passenger with a disability be required to travel with another person?

(a) You must not require that a passenger with a disability travel with another person as a condition of being provided transportation on or use of a passenger vessel.

(b) Your personnel are not required to perform personal tasks (e.g., assisting with eating, dressing, toileting) for a passenger.

In the past, I've had to get dr. signature. But recently, I haven't. Just have to fill out form verifying I need the room. Give dimensions of w/c. Any other special requests I night have.

Disney cruiselines is one line that does ask for a doc to sign their forms.

Don't have to get drs signature on new form. [but I get him to sign a note, anyway :)]

I do not go to the doctor for his signature but I do list the dimensions of my scooter and discuss the need for "no step" access to the bathroom and a shower chair and grab bars. I can still walk just a bit but need the accessible features. To get an accessible room we reserve at least a year in advance.

Thanks xxoocruiser for that, very interesting. Do you know if the law has reduced the number of people falsely booking an accessible cabin and has anyone been prosecuted?

Yes, I believe it has. I'm cruising next month on Celebrity and there are still accessible cabins available. That's unheard of in the past. Usually, one had to book those cabins at least 9 months out.

Having read all your comments it is interesting to hear that the US has legislation in place to help prevent the fraudulent use of wheelchair accessible cabins. I presume that this legislation makes the Cruise Lines more ware of their obligation to disabled passengers and also acts as a deterent to those able bodied passengers who fraudently try to book these cabins.

Unfortunately in Europe there is no such legislation and as a result Cruise Lines operating out of Europe just ask for the very minimum information and do not check the authenticity of the disabled passenger for whom the cabin has been booked.

It is also interesting to read that a couple of Cruise Lines whilst they don't ask for an actual doctor's note they do ask for a doctor's signature when the forms are completed.

PS. It would be intersting to have some comments not just from the US but also from people in the UK and Europe.

Thanks Fiona 2

Having read all your comments it is interesting to hear that the US has legislation in place to help prevent the fraudulent use of wheelchair accessible cabins. I presume that this legislation makes the Cruise Lines more ware of their obligation to disabled passengers and also acts as a deterent to those able bodied passengers who fraudently try to book these cabins.

 

Unfortunately in Europe there is no such legislation and as a result Cruise Lines operating out of Europe just ask for the very minimum information and do not check the authenticity of the disabled passenger for whom the cabin has been booked.

 

It is also interesting to read that a couple of Cruise Lines whilst they don't ask for an actual doctor's note they do ask for a doctor's signature when the forms are completed.

 

PS. It would be intersting to have some comments not just from the US but also from people in the UK and Europe.

 

Thanks Fiona 2

Fiona, I am not sure what excatly your concerns are, there are always borderline cases of disability and with things like MS it can vary by the day and hour. Consequently it is not always fair to assume these passengers do not require HC facilities.

It would be great if cruise ships had more HC cabins which would mean that those of us with relations who definitely need HC cabins might not need to book quite as early, but we recognise that cruise lines have to make a profit and every 2 HC cabins costs the cruise line 3 standard cabins, which is not insignificant.

Peversely in the UK P&O, and I think Cunard as well, have recently introduced a ban on scooters in standard cabins and now require scooter users to book a suite or HC cabin, so they have adequate storage space for the scooter. Of course not all scooter users need the HC facilities but in these circumstances the cruise line presumably will allow these passengers to book an HC cabin.

Personally I have no qualms about booking an HC cabin for my wife, without one we would never be able to cruise, so I am just grateful that these cabins exist, and to ensure we can continue cruising we just have to accept that we need to book early.

Hi Terrierjohn Some of my concerns are answered in your comments. As you say people who use a scooter for convenience rather than necessity will now try to book an accessible cabin when they don't need one. This will just add to the problem that has been around for years, the fraudulent booking of accessible cabins by people who just want to have a more spacious cabin.

As Kitty 9 has said, since legislation has been introduced in the US which makes it unlawful to fraudulently book an accessible cabin she has found that for the first time she has been able to book an accessible cabin at short notice.

As you have said being able to book an accessible cabin means that you and your wife and many other people are able to go on a cruise. I am in exactly the same position. This is why it is important that these cabins are only booked by people that require them and until legislation is brought in in Europe it is up to the Cruise lines to ensure that this happens.

Hi Terrierjohn Some of my concerns are answered in your comments. As you say people who use a scooter for convenience rather than necessity will now try to book an accessible cabin when they don't need one. This will just add to the problem that has been around for years, the fraudulent booking of accessible cabins by people who just want to have a more spacious cabin.

 

As Kitty 9 has said, since legislation has been introduced in the US which makes it unlawful to fraudulently book an accessible cabin she has found that for the first time she has been able to book an accessible cabin at short notice.

 

As you have said being able to book an accessible cabin means that you and your wife and many other people are able to go on a cruise. I am in exactly the same position. This is why it is important that these cabins are only booked by people that require them and until legislation is brought in in Europe it is up to the Cruise lines to ensure that this happens.

Fiona2 , this is not intended to come off flip as I fully understand your frustration. However, rather than expressing your concerns with the lack of regulations in the UK and or Europe concerning the booking of accessible rooms on the CC forum use that energy instead to get laws introduced. Become an advocate for this issue in the UK. That's exactly how the law that became effective in the USA on January 1, 2012 came about. Our legislators did not think of it themselves. It's not easy. It certainly takes time ( many years in most cases) and commitment but it happened because of thousands of people speaking up for the issue.

I for one am a Volunteer Advocate for the National Multiple Sclerosis Society here in the USA . I routinely speak to the legislators in my state , go to the State Capital and have even spoken to the USA Federal Congress on issues and services needed regarding the disabled. I help to put a voice to the issues for hundreds of thousands of individuals. Never intended to become a Volunteer Advocate but advocacy found me when after having been abled bodied for the majority of my life MS changed it. Primarily became an advocated when my little great-nephew was born with a severe brain disorder and he's unable to speak for himself. I want my disability to stand for something. So I place my energy in helping to ensure that the services that my nephew and thousands others need will be here long after I leave this world.

To quote Margaret Mead - "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

Hi xxoocruiser. I understand completely what you are saying and since I started cruising approximately 5 years ago I have been in contact with the head offices of various cruise lines both here in the UK and also in the US trying to get them to make various changes to both their booking policies and onboard facilities for the disabled. I have also been in touch with the national press, the Minister responsible for Disability issues and the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Basically in every case I have hit a brick wall.

The only thing that may get the cruise lines to do something until there is legislation in Europe similar to that in the US is for a petition to be sent to the CEOs of all the cruise lines operating out of UK and European courts asking them to bring in a voluntary code of practice along the lines of the US legislation.

Fiona 2

Hi folks, does anybody know if any UK ,US or other countries cruise lines require doctors notes/ medical note as proof to be able to book a w/chair accessible cabin ?

 

Thanks Fiona 2.

Princess talked through our TA and told us the regs of our room and to call special needs or other to rent our chair if we needed one which we will my hubby can walk but not to far and told us the consiquinces of miss using this room I guess some people try to get it just for the extra room.:o

Hi xxoocruiser. I understand completely what you are saying and since I started cruising approximately 5 years ago I have been in contact with the head offices of various cruise lines both here in the UK and also in the US trying to get them to make various changes to both their booking policies and onboard facilities for the disabled. I have also been in touch with the national press, the Minister responsible for Disability issues and the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Basically in every case I have hit a brick wall.

 

The only thing that may get the cruise lines to do something until there is legislation in Europe similar to that in the US is for a petition to be sent to the CEOs of all the cruise lines operating out of UK and European courts asking them to bring in a voluntary code of practice along the lines of the US legislation.

Fiona 2

Don't give help. When you hit the brick wall , step back, re-stradegize and continue. Ever hear of the phrase " The squeeky wheel gets the oil" ? The same applies to implementing change. It took years to get this done here but most of the organizations that lobby for disabled rights such as the National Multiple Sclerosis Society all joined forces to accomplish this. There's strength in numbers. Keep moving forward for your cause. ;)

Hi xxoocruiser. I understand completely what you are saying and since I started cruising approximately 5 years ago I have been in contact with the head offices of various cruise lines both here in the UK and also in the US trying to get them to make various changes to both their booking policies and onboard facilities for the disabled. I have also been in touch with the national press, the Minister responsible for Disability issues and the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Basically in every case I have hit a brick wall.

 

The only thing that may get the cruise lines to do something until there is legislation in Europe similar to that in the US is for a petition to be sent to the CEOs of all the cruise lines operating out of UK and European ports asking them to bring in a voluntary code of practice along the lines of the US legislation.....

Thanks Fiona 2[/....quote]