now OOSTERDAM PULLS OUT OF MAZATLAN..

ACCORDING TO THIS ARTICLE WHICH IS IN SPANISH...Holland America has decided not to go to mazatlan...IMO...all cruiselines will nix Mazatlan now...a very sad day for Mazatlan vendors and all those that depend on cruise lines...

here is the article..

http://www.noroeste.com.mx/publicaciones.php?id=655951

Princess ~ if you are reading this,

I was waiting for Carnival's lines to pull out. Now that Holland America has announced, I have no doubt Princess and Carnival will follow suit. What a shame for the poor people who rely on the tourism industry. We have canceled our cruises for February and April to the MR. It is time for all the good people of the USA to help our southern neighbors find a way to restore their country to safety. Please take a moment to write your Congress men and women and ask them to help put the pressure on. I refuse to believe there is nothing we can do!

I was waiting for Carnival's lines to pull out. Now that Holland America has announced, I have no doubt Princess and Carnival will follow suit. What a shame for the poor people who rely on the tourism industry. We have canceled our cruises for February and April to the MR. It is time for all the good people of the USA to help our southern neighbors find a way to restore their country to safety. Please take a moment to write your Congress men and women and ask them to help put the pressure on. I refuse to believe there is nothing we can do!

Why should we put pressure on Congress? There is no need to pass the buck but rather, take responsibility of one's actions. It is time for people to realize that if they want to do drugs, then they are the contributing to the violence in Mexico and the murder of US Law Enforcement enforcing the laws in this Country by going after drug smugglers and dealers.

The tourism industry is very important in Mexico. It the second largest source of legal income for the country (oil being number 1). It is not just the tour operators that depend on tourism. Local restaurants, shops, taxis, etc, also depend on tourists. With this income, locals are also able to spend money within their local economy.

On the HAL boards someone recently posted that they called HAL directly and were told that they ARE still going to Mazatlan. Wouldn't be surprised if they decided to ditch that port though. Guess we'll wait and see. We'll be on the Oosterdam in April. I've heard rumblings that they will go to Manzanillo instead. I hope not. We were in Manzanillo last November and it was an armpit. My throat hurt from all the smog being pumped into the sky.

HERE IS THREAD...FROM ONBOARD OOSTERDAM

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1345679

wonder if NCL (STAR) will be next:(

Today, 11:11 PM

AZaTaz

Cool Cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: Tucson, Arizona, Azataz@aol.com

Posts: 886

My son and daughter-in-law are on the Sapphire Princess right now and call to ask me to look up some things in Cabo as their stop in Mazatlan has been canceled. They will be going to Cabo and spending more time there then they will be going to Ensenada with a sea day.

Just thought it was interesting.

:(

Thanks for keeping watch on this WineMan, it's not looking good for us...:(

it is obvious no cruise line is going to Mazatlan any time soon...i just want to know the changes ncl will make on our cruise so we can plan....cabo extra time that would be sweet...Manzanillo would be cool to visit las hadas where "10" was filmed or Ensenada where i could get some good mexican food and wine...regardless, we need to know so we can plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it is obvious no cruise line is going to Mazatlan any time soon...i just want to know the changes ncl will make on our cruise so we can plan....cabo extra time that would be sweet...Manzanillo would be cool to visit las hadas where "10" was filmed or Ensenada where i could get some good mexican food and wine...regardless, we need to know so we can plan!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We went to La Paz once on a MR cruise and loved it. It was a very un-touristy stop, and we had a great time just walking around the downtown area. The ship docked at an industrial/oil/ferry dock, and there were free buses to take you to either the downtown area (to the south IIRC) or the beach area (to the north).

I guess we'll just roll with it, even if we end up with another day at sea, we'll STILL be on vacation!

Mazatlan Frank posted the following on the Disney Cruise boards:

Wow!! Cant believe it. First the Wonder, then the Oosterdam and now the Sapphire princess. Rumors are that the Spirit, Norwegian Star are not coming either.

Imagine having a good job and from one day to the other, no income.

I am about to change professions. I have to change the one I liked the best.

Well, thats life. I think this cycle ended unless a miracle happens.

I wonder if the ships will come back to Mazatlan.

To all of you, I wish you the best.

Mazatlan Frank

Oh, Frank. This breaks my heart. Keep in touch with me. We have some ideas for the future.

I wish our respective governments would get off the ...fence... and send aid in the form of troops and arms to help you all fight this terrible upheaval to your lives. We all sympathize with you and know how badly this affects you and the entire area that depends so much on visitors. Not only is Mexico our neighbor to the south but we share a continent. I so wish we could do more to help each other.

You have made many friends aboard the cruise ships and your reputation is impeccable. I know you will be successful no matter what you do.

Much love and respect to you and your family,

Suzie

Oh, Frank. This breaks my heart. Keep in touch with me. We have some ideas for the future.

I wish our respective governments would get off the ...fence... and send aid in the form of troops and arms to help you all fight this terrible upheaval to your lives. We all sympathize with you and know how badly this affects you and the entire area that depends so much on visitors. Not only is Mexico our neighbor to the south but we share a continent. I so wish we could do more to help each other.

You have made many friends aboard the cruise ships and your reputation is impeccable. I know you will be successful no matter what you do.

Much love and respect to you and your family,

Suzie

Suzie ... The violence in Mexico is fueled by the drug trade (and human smuggling). It's just business. The thugs are fighting a turf war on the supply side. We Americans are their biggest customers. Sending troops to aid Mexico in ending the violence will do nothing so long as we create the demand.

The money involved is just incredible. We see the violence in Mexico because it is fashionable for our news media to publicize it. The only reason we talk about it here is because it spoils our vacation plans.

I feel for the people in Mexico affected by the current violence. It is often the loss of legal employment that drives many into dispair and alternative sources of income. The solution to this problem is right here in our back yard. Stop the demand for the product Mexican criminals provide.

We are on the Sapphire Princess. Yesterday the captain announced that we will not visit Mazatlan today but instead will spend a full day in Cabo and a full day in Ensenada. The official announcement says in part:

"There have been recent incidents of violence in the Mazatlan area. As the safety and security of our passengers and crew in our priority, we reviewed our call to Mazatlan with our Security Department shoreside. Based on information provided, Princess Cruises, along with a few other cruise lines made the decision to cancel our call to Mazatlan this week."

"We see the violence in Mexico because it is fashionable for our news media to publicize it. The only reason we talk about it here is because it spoils our vacation plans." (#14)

Don't attack the messenger because you don't like the message. The media isn't the perpetrators, it's doing its job of informing people. It's what people want to know.

If anything, the international media is ignoring most of the acts of terrorism and the war in Mexico.

The uptick in violence in Mazatlan has hardly seen the light of day, other than in reports published by people locally in Mazatlan.

We talk about these things because we care about our safety and about having a trouble-free vacation. Knowledge is power. In these discussions and in reading the few news reports of the terrorist acts people better prepare themselves for important decisions they will be asked to make.

The cruise lines have personnel and consultants they contract with locally and they get reports we do not have access to. If a line has dropped a port-of-call from a ship's itinerary it's because it believes the dangers outway the advantages and they don't want to assume increased liability if passengers are victimized.

I don't travel out a sense that I'm being charitable to people in the destination cities I visit. I travel for my own pleasure and enjoyment. If others can benefit from my choices - which they do no matter where I'm visiting - then that's a good thing. My safety ... my enjoyment ... my peace of mind comes first. We're all different and what works for one may not work for the next in line. And that's why all topics under discussion - be they about security concerns - excursions - food on-board, etc. - are so important. We learn from all of this.

It's up to the citizens of Mexico to clean up their own house. The whole country reeks with corruption and violence from top to bottom. Why put ourselves in harm's way for their economic benefit or to assuage a few guilty consciences?

Rick&Jenny:):)

"We see the violence in Mexico because it is fashionable for our news media to publicize it. The only reason we talk about it here is because it spoils our vacation plans." (#14)

 

Don't attack the messenger because you don't like the message. The media isn't the perpetrators, it's doing its job of informing people. It's what people want to know.

 

If anything, the international media is ignoring most of the acts of terrorism and the war in Mexico.

 

The uptick in violence in Mazatlan has hardly seen the light of day, other than in reports published by people locally in Mazatlan.

 

We talk about these things because we care about our safety and about having a trouble-free vacation. Knowledge is power. In these discussions and in reading the few news reports of the terrorist acts people better prepare themselves for important decisions they will be asked to make.

 

The cruise lines have personnel and consultants they contract with locally and they get reports we do not have access to. If a line has dropped a port-of-call from a ship's itinerary it's because it believes the dangers outway the advantages and they don't want to assume increased liability if passengers are victimized.

 

I don't travel out a sense that I'm being charitable to people in the destination cities I visit. I travel for my own pleasure and enjoyment. If others can benefit from my choices - which they do no matter where I'm visiting - then that's a good thing. My safety ... my enjoyment ... my peace of mind comes first. We're all different and what works for one may not work for the next in line. And that's why all topics under discussion - be they about security concerns - excursions - food on-board, etc. - are so important. We learn from all of this.

So .... Does that mean you support the notion of sending in US military units to help suppress the criminal element in Mexico? Or does this mean that you think there is no relationship between the violence in Mexico with the illegal product that the criminal element brings into our nation at a vast profit?

I still believe that "We see the violence in Mexico because it is fashionable for our news media to publicize it. The only reason we talk about it here is because it spoils our vacation plans." (#14) is a valid assessment.

My comments, my post, was a response to the notion that sending US troops into Mexico would make everything safe for the Mexican people and the tourists that visit.

No, I don't think the USA should send military into Mexico. Though the appetite of people in the USA for illegal drugs is certainly the principal stimulus for the drug trade in this hemisphere, an equal cause for Mexico's current state of terrorism and for the war is a corrupt Mexican society - from top to bottom - that allows for such an environment of violence and terror to be acceptable and to flourish. Mexico will have to resolve the conflicts and corruption itself, without foreign intervention.

I do think the United Nations should establish refugee camps both in Mexico and in the USA along the border, for the hundreds of thousands of people who have fled their homes and others who would like to. The UN might also want to send observers to the border zone to monitor the warfare. I also support sealing the border completely, and allowing access into and out of the USA/Mexico on more controlled basis - but that's not realistic to expect.

You may wish to continue to blame a free press for occassionally reporting isolated incidents taking place in Mexico - but I think a rational review of the coverage will show what I said earlier - it's largely being ignored. If the "media" were exploiting or sensationalizing the situation CNN would have sent the likes of Anderson Cooper to report regularly from Mexico, FOX News would have a principal reporter there, it would be a top story on the news every day - because the level of warfare taking place in parts of Mexico is equal to what's hapening in Iraq or in other war zones. It's that serious. These things are discussed here because this is a forum with a specific focus - a certain swath of territory of Mexico and people have a particular interest in these ports-of-call. Most people in Canada and the USA care very little about what's happening in Mexico ... or elsewhere away from their own communities.

No, I don't think the USA should send military into Mexico. Though the appetite of people in the USA for illegal drugs is certainly the principal stimulus for the drug trade in this hemisphere, an equal cause for Mexico's current state of terrorism and for the war is a corrupt Mexican society - from top to bottom - that allows for such an environment of violence and terror to be acceptable and to flourish. Mexico will have to resolve the conflicts and corruption itself, without foreign intervention.

 

I do think the United Nations should establish refugee camps both in Mexico and in the USA along the border, for the hundreds of thousands of people who have fled their homes and others who would like to. The UN might also want to send observers to the border zone to monitor the warfare. I also support sealing the border completely, and allowing access into and out of the USA/Mexico on more controlled basis - but that's not realistic to expect.

 

You may wish to continue to blame a free press for occassionally reporting isolated incidents taking place in Mexico - but I think a rational review of the coverage will show what I said earlier - it's largely being ignored. If the "media" were exploiting or sensationalizing the situation CNN would have sent the likes of Anderson Cooper to report regularly from Mexico, FOX News would have a principal reporter there, it would be a top story on the news every day - because the level of warfare taking place in parts of Mexico is equal to what's hapening in Iraq or in other war zones. It's that serious. These things are discussed here because this is a forum with a specific focus - a certain swath of territory of Mexico and people have a particular interest in these ports-of-call. Most people in Canada and the USA care very little about what's happening in Mexico ... or elsewhere away from their own communities.

How do Mexico's problems differ from the drug problems we have in the USA? Shootings, corruption, etc. happen here also. More publicity ??

"How do Mexico's problems differ from the drug problems we have in the USA? Shootings, corruption, etc. happen here also. More publicity ??"

Mexico has a drug user problem - a large domestic market for the drugs - similar but smaller in scope than we have in the USA. What's happening in many parts of Mexico - the terrorism related to the war and drug trade - does not happen in the USA, though.

Probably much to most of the crime in the USA is related to illegal drugs in one way or another - and I know that. Mexico has the same types of crime problems, at that level. So, there are similarities in the problems in both countries.

But the war and the level of terrorism taking place in Mexico which has roots in the drug trade is extraordinary and not something experienced in the USA. The level of criminal activity in Mexico related to the drug trade is staggering in its impact.

Both countries experience corruption. But corruption in Mexico is so pervasive I doubt there's a developed nation that has experienced similiar environments - during the last half century. Given the opportunity to do something honestly vs. dishonestly, I do think a majority of Mexicans choose the dishonest way. They'll often have a defense for doing things dishonestsly, but they still do them that way.

Coverage in the international media about what's going on in Mexico is almost non-existent, relative to the frequency and seriousness of the situation. In the USA, when incidents occur we most often hear or read about it in our local and sometimes national news reports - more frequently that we will see a report from Mexico about much more serious events. We probably see reports of these things on Mexico-specific web forums because the websites are focusing on Mexico, the good, the bad and the ugly. But this concentration of reports shouldn't be interpreted as the norm in the media, because I don't think it is.

How do Mexico's problems differ from the drug problems we have in the USA? Shootings, corruption, etc. happen here also. More publicity ??

You're kidding .. aren't you? :confused:

I will have to agree with Go Mexico. Here are some stats. The corruption in the US is around 3%. The corruption in Mexico runs about 70%.

Sending troops to do battle in the streets in Mexico is not going to do much good. Declaring a Federal emergency and sending our troops to the US-Mexican border is a different story.

People in the US easily like to put blame in others rather than take responsibility. If we lower the demand for illegal drugs, the supply will not be as profitable. Due to current enforcement in the US, the drug dealers have turned to racketeering and kidnapping.

It will take about 5-8 years before things go back to normal in Mexico. This is the first time that their government is fighting head on rather than turn a blind eye while extending an arm to receive kickbacks.

Corruption is still present. But the pride of Mexicans can really show with some politicians refusing to be bought. Unfortunately, the organized crime ends up murdering them. It is the old saying, silver or lead.

My wife is from Mexico, and it hurts me because she cannot go and visit her family in her native country.

You're kidding .. aren't you? :confused:

Unfortunatelly no!

If someone really believes the problems we have in the U.S. with drug violence and corruption is anything close to what Mexico is suffering, you have to wonder where they get their information. There really is no doubt -- Mexico has very serious problems.

The causes and possible cures are open to endless debate. I hope they can get a handle on the problems and we in the U.S. should help in any way we can. There are too many really nice and honest people in Mexico that are getting their lively hoods taken from them.

Yes -- there are places in the world in far worse shape than Mexico, but we don't share a border with them and, for the most part, people on this board don't cruise there.