15 miles from Labadee !!!!

[BadBoysDriveAudi]

[quote name='Aquahound']I respect your opinion, as I always have on CC. I am not arguing with you; just giving my opinion in contrast. RCI is continuing to port in Labadee and continuing to pump money in to their local economy. I think the local Haitians at Labadee should decide for themselves if they want time to grieve, that is, if they even have loved ones effected by the quake. I'm sure that if they decide not to show up for work due to this event, RCI will not punish them and fire them. RCI should not be the ones to make that decision. They should try to maintain the status quo in Labadee which, by all accounts, seems to be what the locals want.[/quote]

Thank you.

Please don't feel as though I'd get offended if someone argued with me; I don't view the word "argue" (or the action) as negative. We are each, in essence, presenting our argument when we voice our opinion. As long as one does so tastefully, without resorting to name calling or making other underhanded remarks, I say argue away.

The contrasting voices presented here were great; it made me re-evaluate my initial position and also learn a little more about the country. There were a couple of things I learned here as a result: (1) the UN envoy's request that ships still bring guests to Haiti and (2) the approximate distance of PaP to Labadee. I'm not sure why I didn't think to pull up a map until someone mentioned it (I live in AK and I'm quite familiar with one city experiencing damage while another 100 miles away doesn't experience much of anything).

Based on those two developments, I decided to further probe my contacts to ask additional questions about conditions in surrounding communities, how many people are migrating to those communities and what/where are the logistical challenges of getting aid into PaP. As I said before, the intial comments I heard weren't likely to be the feelings of all Haitians and I think I may be able to get a broader picture if I pose questions in a slightly different way.

[BadBoysDriveAudi]

[quote name='Mack2']Okay... in that case.... did people stop going to Philly?

How many businesses in Manhattan went out of business in the weeks following 9/11?
I remember articles in the NY Post, saying that places in Midtown were struggling because there was no more revenue coming in because the decline in tourism (which would make sense), and that they couldn't make rent (which is why I remembered the articles).

Continued income is vital to anyplace... and who the heck runs a business in Manhattan where if you lose 2-3 weeks of business... you can't make rent? How crazy is that?[/quote]

Sadly, it happens more than you know. There are plenty of businesses being run on razor thin margins and don't have appropriate access to cash in case of emergency. Additionally, I don't believe people put on a different cap and magically become more financially fit while running their business as compared to running their personal lives. Isn't there a high percentage of people who can't pay their rent/mortgage/other accts payable if they received their paychecks late? To me, that's just as crazy.

[canalfront]

Let's say no one came to the United States to have fun after 9/ll.

Let's say no one came to Louisiana/US after Katrina.

What would that have accomplished?

Sadly, life does go on, and the RCCL employees in Labadee probably welcome the job, talking to the sympathetic passengers, receiving tips, doing what they can to return to a normal life.

Most likey most of them are THE SUPPORT for their families and friends who are in Haiti and need their help deperately.

Go, give love, sympathy, support. And enjoy the feeling for having given small joy for that day to people who need it.

[newsman]

[I]"I think two weeks to a month, unless any further serious aftershocks or earthquakes occur, would probably be adequate to stop calling at Labadee."[/I]
Do you really think the suffering will end in two weeks to a month?

[I]"I have also advocated for passengers going on an upcoming Labadee cruise (say within the next two weeks) being given the choice by RCCL to reschedule their cruise."[/I]
Good idea, and RCCL should charge $100 for each changed booking, with the money going to Haiti. Oh wait, I forgot, you want to take revenue away from RCCL but expect them to continue giving money to Haiti.

Sounds to me that many here feel that THEY will be uncomfortable (or scared) if they go to Labadee. The Haitians want the ships to visit. That's all I would need to know. I'd try to spend extra.
Anyone who feels squeemish about stopping, stay on board and feel superior because you were respectful of Haitians, while not spending a dime on shore. And then, once Haiti is forgotten in the ship's wake, hit the casino, go see a show and party at your next port of call.

[createmem]

Update from Royal Caribbean - I find the attachments in the blog quite interesting.


[url]http://www.nationofwhynot.com/blog/?p=852&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WhyNotRecentPosts+%28Why+Not%3F%29&utm_content=FaceBook[/url]

[deban42]

Maybe RCCL can create a new shore excursion where they bus you into Port Au Prince and help search/rescue for trapped victims, or work in a first aid station for the day. That way they can really feel good about going to Labadee..

 

 

I'd go dragging a case of water behind me. That would be great. Anything I can do to help. Whether it be handing out water, wrapping bandages, handing some extra money to even one person, Saying a prayer with them, Maybe we can move a chair for them. I 'd get off that ship in a heartbeat. At least I wouldn't be sitting on the ship or at home just thinking about them. that's one excursion I'd do:D

[CannonFodder]

I'd go dragging a case of water behind me. That would be great. Anything I can do to help. Whether it be handing out water, wrapping bandages, handing some extra money to even one person, Saying a prayer with them, Maybe we can move a chair for them. I 'd get off that ship in a heartbeat. At least I wouldn't be sitting on the ship or at home just thinking about them. that's one excursion I'd do:D

 

Unfortunately, from a practical standpoint, it's about a 7 hour bus ride one way from Cap Haitien (nearest major town to Ladabee) to Port-au-Prince. I don't think you'd be able to make it back to the ship.

 

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1811252

[corvettelover]

To answer the posts that asked if I ever went to labadee the answer is no. I'm not going to vacation in a spot that has to be armed with guards to keep the hungry people out of the earshot of cruisers. So I guess giving $5 to a person moving your chair entitles you to have a great beach day in the aftermath of a disaster?

 

So.... you've never gone to a private club? How about a gated community? If you think that Haitians were repelled at the gates of Labadee as a starving mass before the earthquake, you're not in touch with reality. It ain;t happening that way now, either.

Yes, access is controlled there, because if it wasn't you'd have 2000 people trying to sell you trinkets all day long.

 

By this line of reasoning we should have shut down Disney World after New Orleans was devastated for a couple of years. Not realistic

[deban42]

Unfortunately, from a practical standpoint, it's about a 7 hour bus ride one way from Cap Haitien (nearest major town to Ladabee) to Port-au-Prince. I don't think you'd be able to make it back to the ship.

 

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1811252

 

 

The point being to set up something where we could be involved in helping. Like wouldn't it be great if there was a booth there that passengers would sign up to help in. People talk on this board about taking tooth brushes, toothpaste, water and clothes and giving it to the people. Well, what if at this booth, manned by passengers, you could drop off this stuff. And passengers, could make care packages and let it go out with the food Rci is sending out. I'd sign up. Just an hour or two

out of my vacation to help someone else.:D:D:D

[Andipanda1]

You know what the BEST thing about texting "Haiti" for 90999 is?

 

If you have a phone provided to you by your job? Your EMPLOYER is actually donating the money!

 

How GREAT is that?!

 

It's not great, depending on who you work for. If you are a (state, local, or federal) government employee, you can get in HUGE trouble.

[Heirloom]

Yes, you do a lot and that is wonderful. But my answer to your second question is yes, stop letting those children see you dancing around, snorkeling, playing on jet skis, overindulging in food and alcohol - that's just cruel. I would never go to Labadee for that reason. I'm not going to bury my head in the sand, tell myself I've done enough, shove food in my mouth, get tipsy and work on my tan and pretend that the child is not there on the hill begging for food. I'm not going to buy a $20 windchime and think its going to feed that child and feel better about myself.

For those that say tipping Labadee employees helps the relief effort a little I say most likely not. How do you figure the employees of Labadee are going to send their meager cash to relatives, if they even have them, to Port au Prince? FedEx? The place is devastated.

If someone can't see the difference between visiting an imporverished area and spending tourist dollars and drinking, eating and sunning yourself less than 100 miles away from dead bodies being pulled from rubble, stacked on top of each other in the streets, men, women and children and others dying from disease all directly related to a huge natural disaster then I think you're just making it about YOU, trying to not look and see the horror while whooping it up on the zip line. You don't stuff your face in the direct eyesight of a starving child and you don't get your drink on so near the dead bodies laying in the sun.

RCCL could pay its workers there, drop off supplies and pay port fees - it doesn't require going there and making it a day to get off and party. I don't get how others can't have real compassion for others.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. RCCL doesn't surprise me.....they are a business out to make money....period. Making their pier investment work !

 

But the cruisers who chime in here with their "oh be good to these people by dancing, singing, drinking, eating, parasailing, and laughing with glee" as their relatives and countrymen are pulled out of crushed concrete, dead and alive....and the attitude of "be charitable by buying trinkets and tipping " as they carry on as if the tragedy where they are really doesn't exist.

 

As old as I've become become........frankly, have never encountered such a selfish and ice cold bunch of people ....

 

Wow.....what is it that someone else wrote that amused me....think it was " Nero playing the fiddle as Rome burns ".......

[world~citizen]

couldn't agree more. Rccl doesn't surprise me.....they are a business out to make money....period. Making their pier investment work !

 

But the cruisers who chime in here with their "oh be good to these people by dancing, singing, drinking, eating, parasailing, and laughing with glee" as their relatives and countrymen are pulled out of crushed concrete, dead and alive....and the attitude of "be charitable by buying trinkets and tipping " as they carry on as if the tragedy where they are really doesn't exist.

 

As old as i've become become........frankly, have never encountered such a selfish and ice cold bunch of people ....

 

Wow.....what is it that someone else wrote that amused me....think it was " nero playing the fiddle as rome burns ".......

 

bravo!

[The Big Booper]

RCI would make a lot more money for the day if they just replaced the Labadee stop with an additional day at sea.

 

Pier investment is a sunk cost and doesn't fluctuate with the number of stops made.

 

But they didn't.

[lcguy]

RCI would make a lot more money for the day if they just replaced the Labadee stop with an additional day at sea.

 

Pier investment is a sunk cost and doesn't fluctuate with the number of stops made.

 

But they didn't.

You're right. They would make more money if they added a sea day.

 

After all RCI is donating certain revenues from the zip lines, aquasports and such while at Labadee to the relief effort. And yeah... they wouldn't have to on and off load tens of pallets of water, rice, beans, medical supplies etc., not to mention the $30,000 or so per stop in port fees! Great idea.

 

Oh, and yeah... the passengers can save money by not purchasing things from the Haitian market too!

 

And the 500 or so Haitians that work at Labadee, well, they won't have to work. They can have a free day too!

 

Wow... those are great ideas!

 

Are you people serious??? :rolleyes:

 

This topic has been beaten like a drum and fact is... RCI is doing what it's doing and with conviction. You have no control.

[cruiserbryce]

as many other have said...I applaud RC for returning to Labadee. I am sure they are doing everything necassary to monitor the situation in that region

[Aquahound]

As old as I've become become........frankly, have never encountered such a selfish and ice cold bunch of people ....

 

Most people here are able to discuss this matter without name calling. If you don't agree with RCCL's decision to remain in Labadee, fine. But to label the vast majority of people here as selfish because they do not share your opinion is uncalled for.

[newsman]

Nero? Yeah that's funny. The Roman's didn't ask Nero to keep fiddling as Rome burned. The Haitians have asked RCCL to continue stopping.

 

Selfish? You have an interesting definition of the word. Wanting to be sure Haitians working at Labadee keep their jobs and have money to help their family and friends is selfish? Wanting to make sure as much revenue as possible makes it's way to Haiti is selfish? I normally wouldn't get off at Labadee because beach days don't excite me, but right now I'd gladly hit the beach and spend as much money as I could if it helps in any small way.

[TravelerThom]

Couldn't agree more. RCCL doesn't surprise me.....they are a business out to make money....period. Making their pier investment work !

 

But the cruisers who chime in here with their "oh be good to these people by dancing, singing, drinking, eating, parasailing, and laughing with glee" as their relatives and countrymen are pulled out of crushed concrete, dead and alive....and the attitude of "be charitable by buying trinkets and tipping " as they carry on as if the tragedy where they are really doesn't exist.

 

As old as I've become become........frankly, have never encountered such a selfish and ice cold bunch of people ....

 

Wow.....what is it that someone else wrote that amused me....think it was " Nero playing the fiddle as Rome burns ".......

RCCL has a responsibility to all of their stakeholders - passengers, shareholders and employees both direct and indirect [ie vendors in the ports they visit, since these people went into business with the expectation that the stream of customers would continue]. I'm sure that RCCL realized in making the decision to stop or not stop at Labadee, there was no way they would not be criticized [since the "other" headline would have been "RCCL abandons Haiti at its time of greatest need"].

 

I wonder how many of the people criticizing RCCL have ever been to Labadee or anywhere else in Haiti? It is clear from the scenarios posted many of these people have never been there.

 

I love how people in England or New York or wherever can slur peoples motives while they sit in comfort pushing to eliminate some of the few remaining jobs in Haiti. I get the feeling that the only way these people will be satisfied is to strip away all the remnants of jobs and dignity left in Haiti, so that then the Haitians will worship them for their kindness of providing alms for the poor.

 

Thom

[carribeanpirate18]

Here is an easy solution.......If your core beliefs and core values tell you its wrong to go to Labadee, change your itinerary. If it means that much to you, its a simple answer.

 

For the people who want feel that docking in Labadee supports the Haitian people and relief efforts, keep your itinerary, spend your money and enjoy whatever it is you choose to do.

 

For the people who do not have an opinion one way or another, keep your itinerary.

 

There is not a blanket answer for everyone like people here are trying to do. Some feel its wrong, some do not......It is something that happens everyday in life.

 

Each person needs to choose what is right FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES. Imagine that...........

[coxswain]

Now the Haitian Govenment are to relocate 400,00 to other parts of the Country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

jj.....

[Jimsedge]

Couldn't agree more. RCCL doesn't surprise me.....they are a business out to make money....period. Making their pier investment work ! If you what other CFO's in the industry are saying, it is actually costing RCI much more than if they skipped the island.

 

But the cruisers who chime in here with their "oh be good to these people by dancing, singing, drinking, eating, parasailing, and laughing with glee" as their relatives and countrymen are pulled out of crushed concrete, dead and alive....and the attitude of "be charitable by buying trinkets and tipping " as they carry on as if the tragedy where they are really doesn't exist.

 

As old as I've become become........frankly, have never encountered such a selfish and ice cold bunch of people .... Pot/kettle

 

Wow.....what is it that someone else wrote that amused me....think it was " Nero playing the fiddle as Rome burns ".......

 

I applaud their efforts!

[nosmothj]

RCI would make a lot more money for the day if they just replaced the Labadee stop with an additional day at sea.

 

Pier investment is a sunk cost and doesn't fluctuate with the number of stops made.

 

But they didn't.

 

RCCl has showen commitment and a lot of inttegrity in its dealings with Haiti. Yes I understand they have a lot invested but they are giving more than any other cruise line. Also they are walking the walk. They are letting the actions do the speaking.

 

As some had said. With the reasoning of some people should never have gone back to New Orleans until the damage was fixed. Labadee is part of the country but hours away. About the time it would take you to get to Panama City or Galveston. Should the tourist industry have closed in these places.

 

911 should people have stopped going to visit New York.

 

In both circumstances as with this officials plead for people to come. Offer support. The fact that you are in Labadee adds needed help and funds to the people.

 

Would you feel guilty going to the beaches in The Dominican Republic, some of those resorts are a lot nearer than Labadee.

 

So I guess those that say stop going wish to further take more money away from the locals so that they can go stand in the relief lines as well.

[bddfc99]

Could you state your feelings about it without violating board rules? I've seen plenty of opposing views which were not deleted.;) How was your post different?

 

 

I don't believe my post violated any rules. Perhaps the moderator could educate me.

[nosmothj]

I have been to Labadee 5 times and in the past it was always one of my best stops. I want to applaud RCCl on all the are doing and have done.

 

I am one of the ones that is now looking for a cruise that includes a stop in Haiti just to show my support and give more !!

 

EXCELLENT WORK RCCL!!

[phoenix_dream]

Most people here are able to discuss this matter without name calling. If you don't agree with RCCL's decision to remain in Labadee, fine. But to label the vast majority of people here as selfish because they do not share your opinion is uncalled for.

 

Amen! You may not agree with everyone's reasoning, but this is not a black and white issue and there are very logical reasons for, or against, stopping there. I believe one key factor is the wishes of the country. Do they or do they not want the cruise ships to continue to visit? We know the answer to that - they DO. So to suggest we ignore that wish strikes me as the epitomy of arrogance - "I know what's best for them". I prefer to think that the people of Haiti know what's best for them. And they said - bring on the ships.

 

So maybe everyone doesn't party their socks off that day, but they go onshore, relax in the sun, and I'll bet spend twice as much as they normally spend on beach days to help out the locals.