Possible Gov't Shutdown

[Texas2steppers]

I was speaking with my brother today about our Alaskan vacations, mine beginning Aug 13th and his Aug 20th. He will be doing land/cruise and staying in Denali Nat'l Park for 4 days before the cruise. If government decides to shut down, obviously Denali will close as well as Glacier Bay National Park. We even discussed whether or not the airlines would fly without TSA agents.

 

Please Congress figure out this big mess without the government shutting down!

[zerezita]

Could you please provide more information about that? When would this take effect?

[Orlando Vic]

I was speaking with my brother today about our Alaskan vacations, mine beginning Aug 13th and his Aug 20th. He will be doing land/cruise and staying in Denali Nat'l Park for 4 days before the cruise. If government decides to shut down, obviously Denali will close as well as Glacier Bay National Park. We even discussed whether or not the airlines would fly without TSA agents.

 

Please Congress figure out this big mess without the government shutting down!

 

Don't complain to us. Write your Congressional representative now and tell him/her you want solutions, not rhetoric.

[TiCKed]

I was speaking with my brother today about our Alaskan vacations, mine beginning Aug 13th and his Aug 20th. He will be doing land/cruise and staying in Denali Nat'l Park for 4 days before the cruise. If government decides to shut down, obviously Denali will close as well as Glacier Bay National Park. We even discussed whether or not the airlines would fly without TSA agents.

 

Please Congress figure out this big mess without the government shutting down!

 

Govt. employee here....

 

Based on past shut downs, (and threatened shutdowns), they will probably exempt "critical" jobs, which they define as those involved in emergency and security jobs. So, I would say the TSA folks would work, but the National Park Service wouldn't.

 

That said, there's plenty of motivation for everyone to try to avoid a shutdown. I'm betting, (at least hoping), that cooler heads will prevail.

[Mendenhall Ranger]

Being a Forest Service unit, the Mendenhall Glacier Recreation Area would also likely close in the event of a government shutdown.

[Texas2steppers]

I would hate to miss all of these beautiful national parks...one of the main reasons to go to Alaska.

[greatam]

I was speaking with my brother today about our Alaskan vacations, mine beginning Aug 13th and his Aug 20th. He will be doing land/cruise and staying in Denali Nat'l Park for 4 days before the cruise. If government decides to shut down, obviously Denali will close as well as Glacier Bay National Park. We even discussed whether or not the airlines would fly without TSA agents.

 

Please Congress figure out this big mess without the government shutting down!

 

Where did you hear the government is shutting down???

 

What MAY happen August 2-the USA government RUNS OUT OF MONEY and unless the debt ceiling is raised, they can't borrow anymore. The government spends daily more than it is taking in. Therefore, the government borrows a lot of money to pay the daily expenses-T bills being the primary financial instrument. There are interest payments on our borrowed money due every day. There are social security, veterans benefits and SSI disability checks that are sent out every day (or at least monthly). When the government runs out of money and can't borrow any more, they will default on their debt. That will cause a SEVERE financial crisis. But has nothing to do with a shutdown.

 

I sure wouldn't worry about the debt ceiling limit, which is the CURRENT government problem, ruining your vacation or closing parks. TSA would NEVER be shut down except in the event of a national disaster (terrorist strike) when just like 911, the AIRPORTS were shut down.

 

Don't worry-go enjoy your vacation.

[moosenaroundtheship]

Well, you should worry about it. Living in WI, but a skip away and working in MN I am seeing what a shut down can do. MN is in one right now. July 1 shut down right before the holiday and the state is still shut down as of today. All State parks closed, City parks where I go somedays for lunch, no lawns mowed, no purchasing of any lotto games (no big deal to me) truck stops, rest areas closed, law inforcement cut, people unemployeed, day care closed and much more. If Alaska has a goverment shut down I would say it isn't going to be pretty and the loss of revenue to the state would be in the $$$$$$. Write, call, but just don't sit and do nothing. It won't do any good to complain once it has happened.

[zerezita]

I am a foreigner. And it is not very familiar to me what you mean by Government Shutdown. I know the problems that the US Government is currently facing, but I would appreciate if you could explain the exact consequences of that on the tourism of Alaska. Are National Parks going to be closed? How long? which date?

 

I am leaving for Alaska July 31 and I am really concernd of all this mess. I have read sth about August 2nd, but why that date?

 

Thanks for your clarifications!

[TiCKed]

I am a foreigner. And it is not very familiar to me what you mean by Government Shutdown. I know the problems that the US Government is currently facing, but I would appreciate if you could explain the exact consequences of that on the tourism of Alaska. Are National Parks going to be closed? How long? which date?

 

I am leaving for Alaska July 31 and I am really concernd of all this mess. I have read sth about August 2nd, but why that date?

 

Thanks for your clarifications!

 

First, there's no guarantee that a shutdown will occur. In fact, I'm pretty sure that as the date gets closer, both sides (Republicans and Democrats), will do everything possible to avoid it. It would just be embarassing to both sides....and neither side wants to risk being labeled as the CAUSE by the public.

 

As for the Aug 2nd date....I think it may be a bit arbitrary. The real issue is a "debt ceiling" that we are approaching. Once we reach the ceiling, in theory, the government wouldn't be allowed to take on any extra debt. So to 'pay the bills', they would have to cut something else. Furlough of government employees is just one of the possibilities. I think the date in early August may be an estimate of when the ceiling is reached....or it could just be an arbitrary date picked in order to force the issue. Really, the solution is simple: vote to raise the ceiling! But there are forces at work who want to use the situation to cut overall government spending. A worthy goal, given the economy....but probably NOT worth risking the political and economic fallout that would come from defaulting on our debt!

 

Now, IF certain sectors of the government are shut down, I guess our concern as vacationers is that the National Park Service, and Forest Service could be affected. Could that mean Glacier Bay, Mendenhall Visitor Center, or other areas could be closed? Could be.

 

Again, I really doubt it will come to that.....and as I mentioned earlier, I'm a US Government employee, and have more than my vacation on the line!

 

Keep watching, and hope for the best, I guess.

 

(I tried to keep this non-political, and hope we don't end up in a political debate here. Just cover our concerns as vacationers.)

[zerezita]

Very clear explanation, thanks a lot. Now let's cross our fingers and expect it not to occur!

[hexdragon]

They don't have a Facebook "Like" button here. I would have given ticked reply a "liked" :)

[hommar2]

Would a shut down affect the airlines? if it happened would we get stranded in the USA? Hope they sort it out for everyone's sake

[TiCKed]

Would a shut down affect the airlines? if it happened would we get stranded in the USA? Hope they sort it out for everyone's sake

 

Again IF the government shuts down....big IF....I would guess that emergency, safety, and security functions would continue. (Law enforcement, military, TSA, airtraffic control, etc.)

 

Added:

 

I fear we may have caused more concern than the whole situation is due. I'm sure the goal in any potential shutdown would be to minimize day-to-day influence on the public, commerce, transportation, etc. Us poor office workers would probably be sent home. Same for park rangers, and other "non-essential" workers. Obviously, the longer something like that went on, the more the "non-essential" jobs would start to impact everyday operations. But I doubt they would want to start out by inconveniencing huge numbers of people!

 

For reference: Earlier this year, they ALMOST shut down the government because a budget hadn't yet been passed. (An even stupider reason, in my opinion). But they averted the whole thing a day or so before the deadline.

 

The one time in my career that they DID "shut down" the government, (1991?), it only lasted a week, and it was pretty much only office workers and the easily ignored jobs. It was a huge embarassment, elected officials were voted out, and I doubt anyone really wants it to happen again.

[greatam]

Where did anyone get an idea about government shutdown? That is NOT the question right now. The government, military and agencies have been fully funded in the last budget. Unfunded/unsettled budgets shut down the government (which is what happened previously) NOT the debt ceiling limit.

 

The question now is whether the debt ceiling will be raised so the US government can BORROW enough money to meet primarily interest obligations (which are totally astronomical).

 

What COULD immediately happen-the government doesn't meet some or all of the INTEREST payments that are due. So keep a close eye on investment accounts-the interest on T bills MAY be delayed. The current administration is scaring seniors saying SS checks are not going to be sent out on the 3rd. That won't happen. They'll scrounge up the money somehow.

 

There would have to be a move by China (which owns billions of dollars of T bills) to really throw the government out of work.

 

IF the US defaults on their debt, it will cause a lot of pain in the financial markets. It will cost more to buy a house, a car or pay your credit card. It will probably cause more defaults in the home markets.

 

Will the Park Rangers be out of work??? Not likely. And NO, you won't be stuck at an airport for lack of TSA or airport controllers.

[TiCKed]

Where did anyone get an idea about government shutdown? That is NOT the question right now. The government, military and agencies have been fully funded in the last budget. Unfunded/unsettled budgets shut down the government (which is what happened previously) NOT the debt ceiling limit.

 

The question now is whether the debt ceiling will be raised so the US government can BORROW enough money to meet primarily interest obligations (which are totally astronomical).

 

What COULD immediately happen-the government doesn't meet some or all of the INTEREST payments that are due. So keep a close eye on investment accounts-the interest on T bills MAY be delayed. The current administration is scaring seniors saying SS checks are not going to be sent out on the 3rd. That won't happen. They'll scrounge up the money somehow.

 

There would have to be a move by China (which owns billions of dollars of T bills) to really throw the government out of work.

 

IF the US defaults on their debt, it will cause a lot of pain in the financial markets. It will cost more to buy a house, a car or pay your credit card. It will probably cause more defaults in the home markets.

 

Will the Park Rangers be out of work??? Not likely. And NO, you won't be stuck at an airport for lack of TSA or airport controllers.

 

While I'll agree that a shutdown wouldn't be a foregone conclusion, or maybe even the chosen solution, the topic has been raised. It's not a figment of anyone's imagination:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/171815-federal-workers-ask-for-information-on-possible-government-shutdown

 

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/alpha-consumer/2011/07/15/how-to-prepare-for-the-debt-deadline

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0625/Obama-GOP-radio-duel-over-government-debt-ceiling

 

http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/the-governments-backup-plan-for-default-1695092.story

 

It's part of the conversation. Maybe you're right, and it shouldn't be....But it's hard to deny the discussion.

 

____

 

Disclaimer: I still don't think it will happen!! :D

[CruiserBruce]

Where did anyone get an idea about government shutdown? That is NOT the question right now. The government, military and agencies have been fully funded in the last budget. Unfunded/unsettled budgets shut down the government (which is what happened previously) NOT the debt ceiling limit.

 

The question now is whether the debt ceiling will be raised so the US government can BORROW enough money to meet primarily interest obligations (which are totally astronomical).

 

What COULD immediately happen-the government doesn't meet some or all of the INTEREST payments that are due. So keep a close eye on investment accounts-the interest on T bills MAY be delayed. The current administration is scaring seniors saying SS checks are not going to be sent out on the 3rd. That won't happen. They'll scrounge up the money somehow.

 

There would have to be a move by China (which owns billions of dollars of T bills) to really throw the government out of work.

 

IF the US defaults on their debt, it will cause a lot of pain in the financial markets. It will cost more to buy a house, a car or pay your credit card. It will probably cause more defaults in the home markets.

 

Will the Park Rangers be out of work??? Not likely. And NO, you won't be stuck at an airport for lack of TSA or airport controllers.

 

I disagree. Some have recently summarized it this way. In August, the Federal Government is budgeted to spend about 305 billion dollars, while it takes in $172 billion. So it will not have the authority to borrow about $140 billion, or a little over 40% of the authorized, budgeted spending.

 

What would you do if suddenly 40% of your monthly income disappeared? Something won't get paid for. Food? Credit card bill? Gas? Mortgage? In the case of the federal government, whether it be interest, military salaries- or other military spending, FAA or TSA salaries, or Medicare and Social Security, is yet to be decided.

[oldengine]

What would you do if suddenly 40% of your monthly income disappeared?

What would you do if ALL of your credit cards were maxed out?

 

Google: What does a trillion dollars look like?

[bottom-dragger]

shouldn't you be more worried about norovirus, mosquitoes, and how to waterproof your chuck taylor's??

 

i'm an uncivil servant, in the past when these games were played we have been given a heads up about who, what, and how. i spent 5 weeks in italy this spring and had to keep tuning the shortwave into the beeb to see if i was on holiday or furlough.

 

right now the noise to signal ratio is very low. only the extremists (cough, cough, she whose name shall not be spoken and her ilk) want to crash the economy to show who has the biggest oscar meyer.

 

but hell, i still think the cubbies are going to take the world series..... some day. should i lose (and it'll be a dry warm sunny 85° day in p'burg if i do) you've won a dinner at my house in tiny town.

[greatam]

I disagree. Some have recently summarized it this way. In August, the Federal Government is budgeted to spend about 305 billion dollars, while it takes in $172 billion. So it will not have the authority to borrow about $140 billion, or a little over 40% of the authorized, budgeted spending.

 

What would you do if suddenly 40% of your monthly income disappeared? Something won't get paid for. Food? Credit card bill? Gas? Mortgage? In the case of the federal government, whether it be interest, military salaries- or other military spending, FAA or TSA salaries, or Medicare and Social Security, is yet to be decided.

 

You said essentially what I said. NOTHING about shutting the government down. INTEREST on the national debt (all those T bills and other financial instruments the government keeps issuing) or SALARIES (but NOT the military, air traffic controllers or TSA) MAY not get paid in the short term (I truly believe this is highly doubtful). SS, Veterans Benefits and SSI disability WILL get paid somehow, some way. Medicare payments to providers COULD get delayed. Foreign aid will likely get delayed or just taken off the table all together (we're saving 850 million by keeping the Pakistan foreign aid money). Maybe we could STOP being involved in Libya and save a couple million a day (our military DOES NOT need the practice).

 

How about NOT giving 108 BILLION to Egypt to bail them out??? How about NOT giving any more contracts to those who defraud the government in a BIG way (my current Middle East military consulting is a result of the lead up to these indictments) http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/04/12/us-usa-agility-charge-idUSTRE63B5GS20100412. While Agility/PWC was NOT allowed to bid on the latest food contract let is Sept 2010, ANOTHER Kuwait Company with close ties WON the contract.

 

There was a consortium of some of the BIGGEST USA food companies (food manufacturers and food service distributors) plus some BIG, BIG players in transportation who were essentially BANNED from bidding on the contract by the US government. At the very last minute, the requirements were changed to mandate 36,000 pallet spaces ON THE FLOOR (this was the wording added 29 days BEFORE final proposals had to be in) for storage in Kuwait. Other than the old British warehouse which conveniently got DE-CERTIFIED by DOD CIVILIANS two weeks before the new requirements went into place, the ONLY storage meeting the requirements was owned by PWC/Agility or its subsidiaries or "partner" companies and the rental price was so astronomical, no one could compete. The new 5.3 TRILLION dollar contract went to another Kuwait company. This little maneuver by the government cost new jobs being created and old jobs to be cut somewhat.

 

My company has about 20% of our business with the federal government (military transportation contracts). Is it going to hurt if they don't reach an agreement and we don't get our checks? You betcha. Am I worried this is going to happen? Not particularly. The back room deals are already being done via 1 month extensions.

[trooper 1]

(Edited.) ...shouldn't you be more worried about norovirus, mosquitoes, and how to waterproof your chuck taylor's??....

Agreed.

 

...And global warming, global cooling, fighting in (pick a country,) peace in (pick a country, revolts in (pick a country,) etc., etc.

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling...."

[Stacym]

shouldn't you be more worried about norovirus, mosquitoes, and how to waterproof your chuck taylor's??

 

i'm an uncivil servant, in the past when these games were played we have been given a heads up about who, what, and how. i spent 5 weeks in italy this spring and had to keep tuning the shortwave into the beeb to see if i was on holiday or furlough.

 

right now the noise to signal ratio is very low. only the extremists (cough, cough, she whose name shall not be spoken and her ilk) want to crash the economy to show who has the biggest oscar meyer.

 

but hell, i still think the cubbies are going to take the world series..... some day. should i lose (and it'll be a dry warm sunny 85° day in p'burg if i do) you've won a dinner at my house in tiny town.

 

If it wasn't for Al Gore NONE of you would be having this conversation....

 

Stacym

[bottom-dragger]

If it wasn't for Al Gore NONE of you would be having this conversation....

 

snort, snort.

 

subtle

 

good play.

 

10 points to gryffindor

[Texas2steppers]

While I'll agree that a shutdown wouldn't be a foregone conclusion, or maybe even the chosen solution, the topic has been raised. It's not a figment of anyone's imagination:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/171815-federal-workers-ask-for-information-on-possible-government-shutdown

 

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/alpha-consumer/2011/07/15/how-to-prepare-for-the-debt-deadline

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0625/Obama-GOP-radio-duel-over-government-debt-ceiling

 

http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/the-governments-backup-plan-for-default-1695092.story

 

It's part of the conversation. Maybe you're right, and it shouldn't be....But it's hard to deny the discussion.

 

____

 

Disclaimer: I still don't think it will happen!! :D

 

I hope it won't happen either! I just remember well in 1995 when the national parks were closed for 27 days due to the gov't shut down.

[Snookum]

And the debt just keeps getting bigger just in the last couple years, hummm!:rolleyes: