Viking China (Part 2)

[Peregrina651]

I think, if there is anything Viking is falling short on is preparation for such a trip and what to expect. I understand that I booked a luxury trip with unparalled service, but so far I haven't received any information from Viking. I feel like I am on my own to figure this thing out and if it hadn't been for you I would be.

 

 

Bayerisch, while we are happy to be here for you, I must humbly disagree with you on this point because I believe that in this area Viking has done its job. Viking has given us the basics on their website (as do other mass-market cruise providers) and the rest is really up to us, the travelers. As caribill said, you will be receiving detailed information about the cruise itself along with your travel documents three weeks before your departure. For those of us who can't wait that long, there is CruiseCritic. ;)

[Peregrina651]

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/packlist.htm

 

Only thing missing was a shami (sp?) some folks pack one to wring the water out of their clothes if they wash in their room to help in speeding up the drying time.

 

Since I always forget to pack it, I just use a towel from the bathroom. It works just as well for me and it is one less thing in my suitcase.

[Kohola]

At Kohola, Sorry about the comment. I thought the chinese didn't allow pictures of the Terracotta Warrior army in the pit. You were able to take pictures. They were fantastic by the way and I appriate your candor.

Hanna

 

Hanna,

 

No problem:-) The signs were added after our visit in 2009 so I didn’t know what you were referring too and I over reacted because of the third person reference. The signs are at the far end in relation to the entrance...where the assembly takes place. When we toured no one was working in this area, but I would imagine if someone was actually in the process of working on the warriors a large crowd would gather to watch, blocking everyone from passing by. There is also a guard posted. If they were serious about "no photography" the sign would be in multiple languages especially Chinese, not just English ;-). We took photos of the area including the guard while he was looking at us this time and he never flinched. When someone asks if I've seen the "no pictures" sign I always reply puzzled "Аз не разбирам" (I don't understand) in Bulgarian...usually does the trick;-). There were 5 people excavating in the forward area at one of the original walls.

 

For those familiar with the pet market as you left the ship in Wuhan…it was washed away and has yet to be restored.

 

For those who like to go beyond Xiexie and Buxie...thank you and welcome. Please is qing pronounced ching with a lowering then increasing inflection…since the Chinese don’t use please as often as we do, the staff on the Emerald will be pleasantly surprised when you say Kafei Qing (cafe ching…coffee please). Tea is Cha with an upward inflection. Use Hong Jiu…hong gee-o for Red wine, bai Jiu…bye gee-o for white wine, and beer is Pi jiu…pee gee-o. Jiu means alcohol or wine, hong is red, bai is white, and pi is beer. Ice water is bing shui…bing shway…so bing shway ching will draw a very big smile;-) A good website for trying to learn the pronunciations of the various phrases is http://www.chinese-tools.com/tools/dictionary.html Check the pronunciation of a word like qing with all 4 intonations to gain an appreciation as to why you may receive a puzzled look when you speak Chinese.

 

The staff in the Emerald dining room pick up on what you order to drink and will start providing it without you even asking if you become a regular at their tables. We had people sitting with us that didn’t want the same beverage with every meal, but were too polite to tell the staff. Chinese are use to directness so just let them know that you would rather have the option if that is the case. I tend to drink de-caf tea so they always had a special pitcher with it brewing for every meal. That is one of the benefits with sitting with the same staff for each meal. My wife had an upset stomach at one lunch so they provided broth, ginger ale, and crackers to our room. Then had a special bland meal prepared for her at dinner in case she was still feeling the effects. They will go the extra mile, not because it’s their job…they genuinely care about most of us. When the staff no longer looks at you as just a passenger, but as a friend they will start making physical contact to feel a closeness with you.

 

They have no problem referring to you as a DaBiZi or big nose because Caucasians have a protruding bridge between the eyes that Asians typically don’t. Expect them to correct your pronunciation of most words unless they are very experienced to know that we just can’t make the same exact sounds…like someone from the US trying to teach the rest of the world how to pronounce the “th” sound. Unfortunately most people stop trying to speak Chinese after they get corrected a couple of times. Fortunately, the first time I tried to speak a young ladies name she said politely...Thanks for trying, but next time just say "Alice" and we'll both be happier;-)

[Peregrina651]

 

For those familiar with the pet market as you left the ship in Wuhan…it was washed away and has yet to be restored.

 

 

When we first docked in Wuhan, I thought it was a tent city. I learned with mixed emotions that it was a pet market -- glad to hear that it was not housing but sad to learn that they sold animals. I couldn't go in--and it wasn't just the snakes. I know I missed out on another cultural experience but I just couldn't do it.

 

 

 

Now, while we are talking about docking in Wuhan, did you notice that the cruise terminal building looks like just like a river cruise ship?

[bayerisch]

Ok, I know patience is required. I just don't want to leave important things to do until the last couple of weeks because I work fulltime and need to squeeze in all the prep after hours. Also when ordering things online, sometimes it takes 6 weeks or so if things need to be returned. I just didn't want to be caught off guard by something I should have done and didn't. This is my first trip to Asia and you guys are experienced travelers, so I will heed your advise.

Thanks Peregrina. By the way, what does it mean?

[Peregrina651]

Thanks Peregrina. By the way, what does it mean?

It is very punny you should ask. Peregrino is the Spanish word for 'pilgrim', which is the name of the street I live on near Boston. Seems like every town around here has its Pilgrim St/Dr/Rd. The English word peregrinate, which means to wander from place to place, comes from the same Latin root. I was already using the screen name when I joined CC but now it has added meaning.

 

I noticed when I logged in this evening that this thread, which is not even a year old has had over 31,000 views. That is great! Lots of people are reading and being helped Can't ask for much more!

.

[bayerisch]

That is charming. While I am from Europe, I have not been to Spain. However, I hope to include it in my peregrinations in the next few years. :)

[Cat lady2]

Are we able to use a tripod in the Warriers pit or woulkd a monopod be better? thnak-you. Barb

[RACH49]

We finally have our flights confirmed and know our hotels. July 4 still seems a long way away, but it's closing rapidly.

 

Contrary to some of the experiences some have had with Viking arranged flights (crazy early departures, multiple stopovers, etc), our flights are about as good as they could be. We leave at noon from home, do a quick flight to Toronto, and then a direct flight from Toronto to Beijing, getting there around 4pm Beijing time. Return is the same; leave Shanghai at 5pm, direct to Toronto, then a short flight home, arriving just after 9pm.

 

We'll arrive in Beijing on July 3 for a forced overnight before the tour begins on July 4. Sounds like we'll have all of July 4 to explore Beijing on our own as there is nothing other than 'checking in' planned through Viking that first day.

 

Our hotels are; Beijing- Westin Financial, Xian - Crowne Plaza, Shanghai - Westin Bund Center. Any tips or info about these from someone who's stayed there? Particularly interested in info about the Crowne Plaza in Xian as it is a brand new hotel and there doesn't seem to be much information about it on the web.

 

We (my wife Cathy and I) are planning to do a supper at the Black Sesame kitchen on the Friday night (Optional Peking duck night with Viking - we're not really interested in duck), which has had some great reviews. Anyone with firsthand experience? Anyone on our cruise and possibly interested in joining us on this evening?

 

We're really excited for this adventure to start. If anyone else is on our cruise and reading this, don't be shy to pop on here (or on our 'Viking Emerald July 2012' roll call in the 'All River Cruise Roll Call' section of Cruise Critic) to say "Hi".

 

Ron

[j-9]

 

Our hotels are; Beijing- Westin Financial, Xian - Crowne Plaza, Shanghai - Westin Bund Center. Any tips or info about these from someone who's stayed there? Particularly interested in info about the Crowne Plaza in Xian as it is a brand new hotel and there doesn't seem to be much information about it

Ron

 

Hi Ron,

We leave in less than 2 weeks now, so as you can imagine we are getting quite excited. Just figured out how much and what denominations of yuan to order. Also starting to think about what clothes we will need - we don't usually go to the "opera" while on vacation, so we're thinking the usual shorts/jeans might not cut it lol.

We will be staying at the Shangri-la in Shanghai, the Crowne Plaza in Xi'an, and the Regent in Beijing. I'll post some pictures and comments on the Crowne plaza when I get back.

[caribill]

Hi Ron,

Also starting to think about what clothes we will need - we don't usually go to the "opera" while on vacation, so we're thinking the usual shorts/jeans might not cut it lol.

 

Casual (but not, I suspect, shorts) is fine for the "opera."

[at_nyc]

Also starting to think about what clothes we will need - we don't usually go to the "opera" while on vacation, so we're thinking the usual shorts/jeans might not cut it lol.

Chinese dress rather formally when attention any sort of function. So whatever you wear, it'll be pretty obvious you're with a tour group. ;)

 

That said, there's no dress code as long as you're dressed. :D

[at_nyc]

For those who like to go beyond Xiexie and Buxie...thank you and welcome. Please is qing pronounced ching with a lowering then increasing inflection…since the Chinese don’t use please as often as we do, the staff on the Emerald will be pleasantly surprised when you say Kafei Qing (cafe ching…coffee please).

Actually "buxie" is not welcome, it's "you're welcome" after someone said "thank you" (xiexie). It's literally "no thanks" (xie is thanks, buxie is no thanks, short of no need to thank).

 

"Welcome" is a different word.

 

And adding the "please (qing)" behind an order would simply puzzle the hell out of your chinese servant! "Kafei Qing" means "please have some of my coffee"!!!

 

"Chinese do say please, but it's not "qing"...

 

Check the pronunciation of a word like qing with all 4 intonations to gain an appreciation as to why you may receive a puzzled look when you speak Chinese.

Unfortunately, majority of western language don't have inflections so a lot of people's brain just don't register the inflection of the the word.

 

Try to think of singing rather than talking. So your brain can register the tones.

 

When the staff no longer looks at you as just a passenger, but as a friend they will start making physical contact to feel a closeness with you.

That's a good warning. There's nothing unusual to physically touch someone, even between men. But it's usually rare to physically touch cross genders though.

 

Chinese are also a lot "closer" physically, which can be a bit of a surprise to Americans who're used to a lot of space around our body.

Edited April 30, 2012 by at_nyc

[Peregrina651]

Chinese dress rather formally when attention any sort of function. So whatever you wear, it'll be pretty obvious you're with a tour group. ;)

 

That said, there's no dress code as long as you're dressed. :D

 

at nyc, I think that one look at my face was a dead give-away that I was a tourist. They didn't even have to look at what I was wearing.

 

The truth of the matter is that the venues we are taken to are all set up for the tourists (of all nationalities including Chinese) so that however you dress for the evening (if you even have a chance to get back to your hotel at all before the event) is not an issue. It is highly unlikely that you will be in the same place as anyone who is dressing up for a formal night out so you really don't have to worry about this. And yes, there were even people who where wearing shorts because that is what they had put on that morning and where not taken back to the hotel change.

 

I'm pointing this out so that you can relax about the what to wear issue and dress for the day in clothing that is weather appropriate--that is to say, there is no need to sweat to death in the hot and humid because you are afraid you won't get back to the hotel that night.

[at_nyc]

at nyc, I think that one look at my face was a dead give-away that I was a tourist. They didn't even have to look at what I was wearing.

I know. But the person asking the question was mostly only concern about not dressing too out of place for the venue.

 

As you pointed out, it's tourist contraction rather than a proper "opera". So there's no dress code. (well, even proper opera don't have dress code anyway). When I was travelling around in China (not by cruise), I just noticed most Chinese dress rather formally, except tourists (forign or local).

 

We both agree it really doesn't matter. :)

Edited April 30, 2012 by at_nyc

[Peregrina651]

 

 

We (my wife Cathy and I) are planning to do a supper at the Black Sesame kitchen on the Friday night (Optional Peking duck night with Viking - we're not really interested in duck), which has had some great reviews. Anyone with firsthand experience? Anyone on our cruise and possibly interested in joining us on this evening?

 

Ron, remember that this evening is not just about the duck, which is really only one of the many items served that evening, but also about seeing Chinese opera. Don't panic. It is a very abbreviated show aimed at foreign tourists. Some folks decide to attend for the cultural experience (when in Rome?). Even after this explanation, there are many who say, "No, thanks."

 

If anyone else is on our cruise and reading this, don't be shy to pop on here (or on our 'Viking Emerald July 2012' roll call in the 'All River Cruise Roll Call' section of Cruise Critic) to say "Hi".

 

Ron, check out this post about making sig files; very handy for directing traffic to your roll-call without having to remembering to do it each time you post. Single comments get lost in the thread but anything in a sig file follows you wherever you go. Or if you don't want to follow a link, go to post #459 in this thread.

[j-9]

Thanks everyone, that is good advice about the clothing - I would hate to be seen as disrespectful by dressing inappropriately, but if that possibility was there, I'm sure Viking would provide guidance.

 

Check out YouTube for a sneak preview of what to expect at the opera! I think my husband is treating this event along the same lines as a luau - he may not particularly like the music or all the food, but when else are you going to get the chance to find out?

Edited April 30, 2012 by j-9

[Peregrina651]

See how we get in trouble going back and forth from one language to another, one culture to another? But we learn something along the way. It's fascinating.

 

Actually "buxie" is not welcome, it's "you're welcome" after someone said "thank you" (xiexie). It's literally "no thanks" (xie is thanks, buxie is no thanks, short of no need to thank).

 

"Welcome" is a different word.

 

The problem is that English uses the word 'welcome' as both a greeting and in response to 'thank you.' While the proper response to "Thank you" is "You're welcome," most of the time these days, that lengthy response has been pared down to simply "Welcome." (And what kind of response is 'hello' when someone has just expressed his appreciation? )

 

Take heart! The native speakers were not confused. We knew Bob was talking about the proper response to xie-xie and not the greeting.

 

And adding the "please (qing)" behind an order would simply puzzle the hell out of your chinese servant! "Kafei Qing" means "please have some of my coffee"!!!

 

"Chinese do say please, but it's not "qing"...

Fascinating, at nyc. More than we can find in phrasebook--and more helpful, too.

 

Further proof that things don't translate word for word from one language to the next. And so hard for us to get past those Mommy tapes going off in our heads (What do you say, dear?) How can we be polite and respectful without saying 'please' and 'thank you'? It doesn't feel right.

 

Unfortunately, majority of western language don't have inflections so a lot of people's brain just don't register the inflection of the the word.

 

Try to think of singing rather than talking. So your brain can register the tones.

 

If I could only sing!

 

That's a good warning. There's nothing unusual to physically touch someone, even between men. But it's usually rare to physically touch cross genders though.

 

Chinese are also a lot "closer" physically, which can be a bit of a surprise to Americans who're used to a lot of space around our body.

 

More interesting stuff!

 

EMBRACE THE DIFFERENCES!!

[Kohola]

Thank you Andrea for your response to the language issues...interesting to me that I spent 10 days having my intonation of Qing or please corrected at every meal by the same people who don't even use the word;-) Saying ChaQing for tea please was very melodious to me and the crew is use to English speech patterns so they adapt to our odd word order. The crew also says DingDingHao when something is cool or Yao de, a couple more words that won't appear in many language lessons.

 

I completed my editing of our 2012 cruise which is available at

Quite a difference in Pit 1 for the terracotta warriors. Since our 2009 cruise photos are also on the website you have option of comparing river photos between the two directions.

 

There's plenty of that rare cross gender hugging and hand holding going on in my photos. The young ladies have no issues with hugging a male passenger, but the young men will never initiate any physical contact at all. Much like what happens in the US.

[kbert92069]

To those more experienced....

 

I was reading somewhere about a hand gesture of tapping the table with 2 fingers as a "thank you" gesture after being served tea. Is this something you witnessed or learned?

 

Thanks,

 

Karl

[Peregrina651]

To those more experienced....

 

I was reading somewhere about a hand gesture of tapping the table with 2 fingers as a "thank you" gesture after being served tea. Is this something you witnessed or learned?

 

Thanks,

 

Karl

 

The mannerism that I was very aware of was how things like business-cards, credit cards, etc. are presented to another person with two hands. To use just one is insulting. Not having been taught to do it from a very early age, I found it hard to achieve. Either I would forget or I could not figure out how to make the gesture quickly enough. It is awkward to do when you are accustomed to doing it differently all the time.

[Kohola]

Are we able to use a tripod in the Warriers pit or woulkd a monopod be better? thnak-you. Barb

 

 

Barb here is a photo of the right side near the entrance on a non-crowded day in early April of 2012...you decide;-) The areas at the entrance and on either side of the vanguards get very crowded. As well as areas where any activity is taking place...basically everyone is trying to take photos of the same thing.

[Kohola]

To those more experienced....

 

I was reading somewhere about a hand gesture of tapping the table with 2 fingers as a "thank you" gesture after being served tea. Is this something you witnessed or learned?

 

Thanks,

 

Karl

 

I sent your question to the experts on the ship...it was 2am when I sent the message, but I should have a reply sometime today.

 

As I said before I have real time access to the people some of you will see shortly that are more than happy to answer your questions.

[Kohola]

The mannerism that I was very aware of was how things like business-cards, credit cards, etc. are presented to another person with two hands. To use just one is insulting. Not having been taught to do it from a very early age, I found it hard to achieve. Either I would forget or I could not figure out how to make the gesture quickly enough. It is awkward to do when you are accustomed to doing it differently all the time.

 

Here's the act of using both hands in action...I never even realized it until your post.

 

[at_nyc]

To those more experienced....

 

I was reading somewhere about a hand gesture of tapping the table with 2 fingers as a "thank you" gesture after being served tea. Is this something you witnessed or learned?

 

Thanks,

 

Karl

I see a lot of Chinese in US uses that gesture. The custom came from Hong Kong. So I'm not certain it's a nation-wide standard in China.

 

And a bit of clarification, you do that after someone POUR you some tea. You don't do that when they hand you a tea cup!

 

Confused? Easier to just say a quick "thank you", which is ALWAYS right!

Edited April 30, 2012 by at_nyc