Children, Women and Men Last - Not sure this is the best order of abandoning ship

[nikita606]

The accounts from passengers on the ship say that it was mayham getting onto the boats with much pushing and shoving. That is why first come first served is not really fair. I am a 43 year old female. My own perspective is that if a ship is going down in cold water (not swimable) the youngest should be saved first. I know people will not like my thoughts, but older people have had time to live their lives. My children are not yet adults, but if they were, I know that I would give up my spot for them. So would my husband or my parents. A 20 year old man or woman still have their whole life ahead of them. Even though I don't consider myself old, I've had a chance to live my life. Let the younger person go first.

[joe bucker]

If you can"t swim why not? Sounds that somewhere in your life the priorities got messed up. Swimming can save your life. If your mom and dad didn't send you to the Y or some place to learn, take it upon yourself to learn. But I guess that goes with personel responsability,nobody takes any and they are all a victim!

[Piemaster]

I found a link to some very incredible pictures and video of the sinking:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087126/Costa-Concordia-captain-Francesco-Schettino-seen-drinking-bar-abandoning-ship.html

It's quite interesting that the only picture that shows the passengers evacuating seem to show quite orderly behaviour, not the panic and 'every man for himself' attitude that seems to have been reported.

 

Of course, there's not much you can really conclude from an isolated picture with no context, but it's interesting all the same.

[izatu]

Wow! It's nice to know that a person's worth is determined by the measure of their fertility! Single, infertile, or just choose not to compete in the "Breeders Cup"...back of the line with you! Nice!

 

If acupuncture can be offered onboard, can euthinasia be far behind?

 

At least it explains why, on my Alaska cruise, the crew was rounding up the seniors & setting them off on the ice floes!

 

:)

 

hahahah. so awesome. if you don't participate in breeders cup - die! load of crap. :rolleyes: what about that 28 year old single who's children are soooooooo young, they still but a twinkle in their eye??? should they not be saved first? so they can breed?

 

on another note, i have read so many comments from senior or older paxs or cruisers or peeps generally who said they would want younger people off first...i think that is so...idk...lovely and sweet and kind of sad. i hope i too am that wise when senior.

 

also, is there not a huge difference between "women and children first" and "every man for himself"? they seem to be polar extremes, no? people pushing each other down to survive is just horrible. it should not have come to that.

[tntornadox]

Unfortunately, when your life is threatened, you go into survival mode, the most basic of human instincts. Some handle it better than others, as anyone who has ever been involved in any accident can tell you.

[welwyngirl]

Dear All

 

Firstly my thoughts and prayers to all of the passengers and crew of the Concordia. A tragic situation for all involved.

 

I am not sure that i agree with the order or evacuating the ship, children, women and men last.

 

I am a fifty five female and frequently cruise with my two sons who are 23 and 25. I would gladly give up my place in a lifeboat for one of those in order to give them a chance of survival and i am sure my mum of 84 would feel the same.

 

Perhaps it should be families first, ie those with children under eighteen.

 

I would appreciate your comments.

 

I agree. I would give up my place for my kids and grandkids gladly. I know my husband would definitely put all of us first, but that's love innit?! But I agree, men are stronger and more likely to have the strength to swim or hold on to some flotsam. I'm hoping I'm never in that tragic situation. It must be terrifying. But amidst lots of terrified people I can imagine there are some who would climb over women and kids to get a place on the lifeboat. THat's survival. Interesting post, Bonnielass!

[Girl_from_Ipanema]

Dear All

 

Perhaps it should be families first, ie those with children under eighteen.

 

 

And breeders are superior why?

[Milaandra]

If you can"t swim why not? Sounds that somewhere in your life the priorities got messed up. Swimming can save your life. If your mom and dad didn't send you to the Y or some place to learn, take it upon yourself to learn. But I guess that goes with personel responsability,nobody takes any and they are all a victim!

 

Sheesh! The only people making me a victim are those of you who seem to think that not being able to swim makes me deficient as a human being!

 

I'm sure there are a great many skills that could save your life. I doubt even you have taken the "personal responsibility" to learn them all.

 

Yes, I had lessons. No, I can't swim.

 

Why is it that some of you take this so personally that you cast aspersions on my character?

 

Are you this insulting to those with dyslexia?

[Milaandra]

And breeders are superior why?

 

It isn't the breeders...it's the children. Frightened, vulnerable and with all the potential for a long and productive life. And when possible, children will thrive better with a parent.

 

I chose not to have children myself. (obviously I didn't want to pass along the horrific character flaws of my non-swimming genes :p) So I don't have any bias toward reproduction. But I would give up my seat for a child and it's parent.

[Djonemore]

As an adult male, if put in a situation where there was only one seat left on a life boat and it was available to either me or an elderly or disabled person, I believe it would only be right to let the elderly or disabled person take the seat. Of course, that's my belief but I can't predict how I would actually react in that situation.

 

Given that cruise ships have more than enough space on the lifeboats for everyone aboard nowadays, I don't see why saying women and children is necessary. All it does is add extra distress to families who must separate from their fathers/husbands. If a family shows up together, they should all get on the lifeboat together, father included. If a couple show up together, husband and wife should be allowed to board the lifeboat together.

 

I'm all for chivalry, but forcing men to stay behind simply because they're men is wrong in my opinion. As others have said, what about the men who can't swim or are afraid of water? Or on the other hand, why should the women who are more capable of swimming than some men get priority? As bad as it sounds, I believe it should be first-come first-serve, especially when it comes to keeping families together.

 

I'm a fit 63 year old man and I'm staying with the ship. Let the weaker ones board the lifeboats and get off. As long as my wife gets off I'll rest easy. I don't really care about me. A sinking ship is an adventure. Might be my last adventure but it will be a test to see if I can survive.

 

After reading 4 pages of this thread, I just wanted to point out these 2 excellent posters, Straight to the point, no bickering. When faced with the situation where half the lifeboats were inaccessible, letting women and children board before me is perfectly acceptable. At this point, when your content with your decisions, you have more time to think logically.

-Matt

[philipb]

Apparently Noel Coward said (in his usual inimitable way) that he liked travelling on Italian Ships. "There is none of this women and children first nonsense!"

[joe bucker]

Sheesh! The only people making me a victim are those of you who seem to think that not being able to swim makes me deficient as a human being!

 

I'm sure there are a great many skills that could save your life. I doubt even you have taken the "personal responsibility" to learn them all.

 

Yes, I had lessons. No, I can't swim.

 

Why is it that some of you take this so personally that you cast aspersions on my character?

 

Are you this insulting to those with dyslexia?

 

 

As to having dyslexia that is a physical impairment. You are not taught to be dyslexic. You are taught to over come this disability.

 

As for learnig survival skills I have learned enough I hope to feed my family off the land and build a shelter. Do I like hunting and fishing? No, but can I do it? Yes. I also try to learn as much as I can all the time. Reading is fun.

 

I do believe that you can swim, you had lessons and know the basics, a lot of this comes down to wants and needs.

[Milaandra]

I do believe that you can swim, you had lessons and know the basics, a lot of this comes down to wants and needs.

 

Well, that's a relief. I thought I sunk like a stone. Largely because, despite lessons, I was unable to remain suspended in the water.

 

Glad to know I was wrong about that.

[Shamone777]

Unfortunately, I don't know how to swim. In a panic, I don't know how I would react but if I'm in a group of people that are clamoring to get on a lifeboat and I see kids behind me, I probably would grab one of them to take my place and then try to get on the lifeboat. Like I said, I honestly don't know how I would react. I just hope and pray the tragedy with the Costa Cruise would never happen again.

[H82seaUgo]

Dear All

 

Firstly my thoughts and prayers to all of the passengers and crew of the Concordia. A tragic situation for all involved.

 

I am not sure that i agree with the order or evacuating the ship, children, women and men last.

 

I am a fifty five female and frequently cruise with my two sons who are 23 and 25. I would gladly give up my place in a lifeboat for one of those in order to give them a chance of survival and i am sure my mum of 84 would feel the same.

 

Perhaps it should be families first, ie those with children under eighteen.

 

I would appreciate your comments.

 

i don't think they would have enacted any of that priority stuff unless the passengers exceeded the amount of usable spaces on the lifeboats.

[Shamone777]

I hope this isn't a dumb question but I thought ships had radars (like submarines) to detect if anything would be in their way of sailing?

[StillPooh]

I hope this isn't a dumb question but I thought ships had radars (like submarines) to detect if anything would be in their way of sailing?

They do, but a ship a thousand feet long doing 15 knots can't exactly turn on a dime. By the time they saw the reef, it would have been way too late to turn away. Which is why they should NOT have been that close to shore, going that fast.

[Shamone777]

They do, but a ship a thousand feet long doing 15 knots can't exactly turn on a dime. By the time they saw the reef, it would have been way too late to turn away. Which is why they should NOT have been that close to shore, going that fast.

 

Oh, I see. Thanks for the reply.

[Cruiser_SG77]

I'm a 34 year old male. I believe when a tragedy such as this occurs, the old evacuation rule of women and children first should still apply.

[not-so-ancient mariner]

The best order for abandoning ship is decided -- in accordance with law, duty and the circumstances of the given crisis -- by the captain and officers of the ship. The passengers should follow orders and not argue with the person in charge nor take any action that would impede the orderly and safe evacuation of the ship.

 

Unfortunately, in this case, the captain and (at least) the First Officer abandoned the ship contrary to law and their duty and it doesn't appear that any officer then assumed command. In all the accounts I've read, it was crew members, not officers, who staffed the lifeboat stations and they were not supervised by trained officers nor given clear directions.

 

In the vacuum created by the absence of trained officers,some people, who felt they were more entitled than others, forced their way ahead of others in line. Not everyone could get a seat on a boat; they rarely can since almost any disaster that necessitates evacuation will have rendered some lifeboats inoperable or unreachable. Unlike the passengers on the Oceanos (facing a far more dire situation) some Concordia passengers did not remain calm. There was chaos. Some had to jump and swim to save their lives. There was no organized effort to establish a rope line connected to shore (about 150 - 200 feet away) that could aid non-swimmers trying to escape. Many were injured and some died.

 

It has been my experience that, when called upon to help, most people will step forward. Where there is leadership, most people will support it against the "every man for himself" blowhards and opinionated people who obstruct the evacuation by arguing and questioning every decision taken. The absence of such leadership from the captain and senior officer(s) led to the chaos, injuries and deaths of many.

 

I see, now, that the Captain is now out of jail and under "house arrest." After all, abandoning ship and leaving junior staff to cope with a massive evacuation of panicky tourists isn't so bad. He took care of number one (and probably left with his wife, in accordance with the "families first" point of view).

[jaclync324]

4000+ people and only a small fraction jumped overboard and swam. A small number are dead or missing. Most of the people on the ship made it off in the life boats, the rest lifted off by helicopters.

 

That means, even though some of the lifeboats were unusable due to the listing of the ship that there was plenty of room for most of the passengers and crew.

 

There is no need to fight over who goes first. Line up in an orderly fashion, keep parents and children together, and get into the lifeboat when it is your turn. Help elderly people who are alone and young children who can't find their parents. Help those who are upset and frozen in place from fear. Be human. It might be difficult when you are in danger but at least try.

 

As a female, I absolutely agree that my life is not any more important than my husband's life and while he does swim better than me, I would not want him to jump overboard. I would rather he wait with us and get on the lifeboat!

 

Perhaps the smartest, most logical post I have read in a long time.

[Unknotted]

It's easy to criticize those who pushed their way into life boats, but when you think you are going to die, a primal instinct takes over that is hard to overcome. For moms, that instinct might be to save their children, for men it might be to save their wives, but for some people it will be to save their own butts. I can only guess what it would be for me...but I do know my life wouldn't be worth a darn without my husband, so if he has to wait at the end of the line, that's where I believe I will be too. It wouldn't be out of chivalry, it would be because my "instincts" would tell me I need him more than I need a place at the front of the line.

[Activated95b]

Personally - I would feel that anybody who did not stand aside if neccessary in order to protect the more vulnerable (male or female) is nothing more than a coward who thinks only of himself or herself.

 

We all have a moral duty to assist those in need - even if we have to accept risk in order to do so.

[smitty3000]

On all the cruises we have been on, on Carnival ships they always say that the kids under 12 have to have a wrist ban which says what life boat they will be on and they are taken straight to that life boat in an emergency. I think this is a great Idea. I wonder if alot of people will not leave their children at Camp Carnival afraid for them to not be by their side now that this has happened. Was there any type of thing like this on the Costa Concordia? If so, wonder what they did with the kids. Just curious. I can't image getting on that lifeboat and not knowing where my kids are and they are 22 and 24.

[tampabrat22]

The comparison does make sense. Even though you can't fly, you get on an airplane to take a vacation. What's the difference? Are you suggesting that cruising isn't transportation? Oh, and not everyone can learn to swim.

I think I'm properly prepared for an emergency on a cruise ship. I know where my life jacket is, I know where my muster station is. The cruise company seems to think that's the proper preparation. I've been on Carnival, NCL and Cunard, and none of them have asked me if I can swim.

The chances of being in a cruise ship disaster without access to my assigned lifeboat is slight...much slighter than being in a plane crash. You're willing to take the chance in a plane even though you can't flap your wings to safety. If you think being a non-swimmer on a cruise is reckless and stupid, isn't it reckless and stupid to be on a plane when you (in fact no one) can fly?

I'll bet that many of those who displayed a lack of calmness and courtesy aboard the Concordia knew how to swim.

 

Do you remember US Airways flight 1549? Pan Am Flight 526A?

 

Sheesh! The only people making me a victim are those of you who seem to think that not being able to swim makes me deficient as a human being!

I'm sure there are a great many skills that could save your life. I doubt even you have taken the "personal responsibility" to learn them all.

Yes, I had lessons. No, I can't swim.

Why is it that some of you take this so personally that you cast aspersions on my character?

Are you this insulting to those with dyslexia?

 

All I'm saying is weather your opinion is women & kids first, elderly first or you want to be the chivalrous man/woman who stays behind this is known: "1.2 million people around the world die by drowning every year, that is more than two persons per minute." http://www.ilsf.org/drowning/facts Learning to swim is always a good idea; the more survival skills you have, the better your chances.

 

Milaandra...sorry you feel like we are making you a victim, casting aspersions or insulting you as you stated, that was not my intention. We will just have to agree to disagree.