Children, Women and Men Last - Not sure this is the best order of abandoning ship

[fellowfloater]

50% of the Life Boats were unusable. Now What? Not enough room for everyone -- hence Women and Children First. -- (I hope no one notices I am dressed in drag!)

[tk22]

I'm not suggesting pushing people out of the way, but think about the log jam you create at the lifeboats trying to separate families and tell people they can't board after they've gotten there. You'd waste precious minutes arguing with people--time that if you just got people on to a life raft and then moved down to the next one in an orderly manner might save lives.

 

I agree - just load the lifeboats as people come and move on

; trying to separate families causes more panic and chaos!! There are reported to be enough room for everyone in the life boats so this would be the quickest way I believe.

[Miss Fig]

50% of the Life Boats were unusable. Now What? Not enough room for everyone -- hence Women and Children First.

 

 

Nope, I still believe there are enough life boats & life rafts for everyone. There are huge redundancies. There would be other ships / coast guards / heli's to assist.

 

If men choose to voluntarily abide by that antiquated notion, fine! That's very admirable. Please stay out of the way, and don't delay the families and couples that prefer to board together.

[Gathina]

I dont think people are as noble as we'd like to think they are. In the end, I think for a lot of people human nature is going to kick in and people will try to save themselves first. A long long time ago I dated a crew guy from NCL and asked him what would happen if the ship sank. He'd said something to the tune that a lot of crew would focus on trying to save themselves first and not the passengers because they want to survive, too. Horrible thing for him to say, but most people truly aren't that noble, I don't think.

[Red Mini Stapler]

50% of the Life Boats were unusable. Now What? Not enough room for everyone -- hence Women and Children First. -- (I hope no one notices I am dressed in drag!)

 

*points* "look mommy! it's a bearded lady!"

[electricron]

Just wanted to remind all of the history of the Titantic sinking 99 years ago. Most of the lifeboats left the sinking ship half full because of the children and women first morality. Yes, twice as many human "souls" could have been saved if it weren't for this silly moral rule....

That's when the regulations for safety at sea changed, amongst them having more than enough lifeboats to carry everyone aboard.

 

I refuse to die for someone else's sense of morality!

[ehfl]

The most important thing is to get off the ship quickly.

 

It would really slow things down to start sorting passengers at the lifeboat station.

 

If you get off quickly, there are more than enough lifeboats and rafts for everyone.

 

Those closest to the lifeboat should board quickly, so that the lifeboat can be lowered, and the next batch of people can get off.

 

Women and children first may have made sense when there was not enough lifeboats for everyone. But today, the best policy is to get off the ship quickly and efficiently, and not block access to those behind you by trying to prioritize boarding.

 

Clearly lives were lost in this situation because of delays. The important thing is to reduce delays.

[Miss Fig]

Just wanted to remind all of the history of the Titantic sinking 99 years ago. Most of the lifeboats left the sinking ship half full because of the children and women first morality. Yes, twice as many human "souls" could have been saved if it weren't for this silly moral rule....

That's when the regulations for safety at sea changed, amongst them having more than enough lifeboats to carry everyone aboard.

 

I refuse to die for someone else's sense of morality!

 

 

Agreed! It's antiquated & would cause more stress and worry and violence. I'm sure all those gentlemen would NOT be happy to see other men blithely boarding lifeboats with their loved ones. I could easily see it inciting violence. Just ridiculous.

 

I want to repeat - has anyone ever heard them say women & children board the life boats first at their muster drill??? I never have.

[tomhiker]

I think the actual sequence is first come first served, including the captain

 

Firstly my thoughts and prayers to all of the passengers and crew of the Concordia. A tragic situation for all involved.

 

I am not sure that i agree with the order or evacuating the ship, children, women and men last.

 

I am a fifty five female and frequently cruise with my two sons who are 23 and 25. I would gladly give up my place in a lifeboat for one of those in order to give them a chance of survival and i am sure my mum of 84 would feel the same.

 

Perhaps it should be families first, ie those with children under eighteen.

 

I would appreciate your comments.

[tomhiker]

read a list of the titanic survivors. There were about one third men. The rule of women and children is something from hollywood movies

[Zeno]

Agreed! It's antiquated & would cause more stress and worry and violence. I'm sure all those gentlemen would NOT be happy to see other men blithely boarding lifeboats with their loved ones. I could easily see it inciting violence. Just ridiculous.

 

I want to repeat - has anyone ever heard them say women & children board the life boats first at their muster drill??? I never have.

 

It is interesting that you mention this. I once attended a lifeboat drill where it was modified "height" order. I say modified because the order went something like this:

small child, one parent behind child, remaining parent moved to size order unless there were multiple small children, those obviously requiring assistance were at the very front, elderly behind children and parents, able-bodied men and women of all ages including older teens - size order. This was done very quickly - so obviously it was the "plan" of sorts.

 

This struck me at the time as showing a lot of common sense. I have only seen it done like this once.

[glasgow_canuck]

First come, first served.

 

I agree with this & I don't mean by trampling over others to get there first. I've not been in this situation, so don't really know... But I think getting folk into the life boats as quickly & safely as possible has got to be better than telling some one who's scared & panicking that they can't get in the life boat yet because they are the wrong age or gender, or splitting up families at a time when you probably need the comfort of knowing your loved ones are around you.

[lroche_nf]

There is room on all the life boats for all passengers and crew so a "women and children" first policy simply isn't needed. And could make evacuations actually take longer if everyone is scrutinized when boarding to know the order. Should mothers take priority over women who are childless? Should passengers take priority over crew members? Should fathers take priority over childless women? Too complicated and time consuming. If everyone boarded life boats in an orderly fashion there is room for all.

[ducklite]

I want to repeat - has anyone ever heard them say women & children board the life boats first at their muster drill??? I never have.

 

On my last cruise the said at least three times, "WE WILL NOT SEPARATE FAMILIES." (I put it in caps because they were so insistent about making sure everyone understood their position. It's the only thing I remember about that muster.)

[dalgirl]

I don't see separating families - so I can guarantee that my DH who although middle aged is a certified diver would not board in front of families with children or women (yep, he is also old fashion southern;)). He would stand aside and let them pass him to board- and since I don't believe in separating families either, especially MY family, I would be right next to him. I would not leave without him, not after 34 years together. So I guess I would have to hope for God and a gentle sea because I would be swimming or die trying... wow this is so depressing:(

[tampabrat22]

Ever go on an airplane? :D

 

I can't fly on my own, but I get on an airplane... do you?

 

A plane is a form of transportation, yes I do fly to a destination and then I get off. Just like I drive my car every day to a destination. And you better believe if my destination is in water or surrounded by water I would be sure we ALL know how to swim. Your comparison does not even make sense, you can not learn to fly but you CAN learn to swim.

 

Or would you go mountain climbing without instruction? Or camping without proper preparation and knowing what to do if a bear or mountain lion crosses your path? My point is that when people are properly prepared for an emergency their odds at survival are better.

 

People panic in emergencies, I am in a line of work that sees it almost everyday, it is our job to be prepared, remain calm and make sure people are safe. I just feel like if people weren't afraid of drowning they may be a little more calm & courteous in an emergency around water.

[sjbdtz]

I wouldn't want to be cruising with a guy who would get on before women, children and the disabled. .

 

Pray we don't sail together then. There are enough lifeboats (2 x passengers), but I'm not waiting for a woman or child if they're not next in line. I won't push/shove, but i'm not going to keep staying behind until they're all off-loaded.

 

Next up, next off.

 

 

 

Again you are wasting precious time deciding whose life is worth more than the next. Just get people on and get the boat launched and move on to the next.

 

.

 

Agreed.

 

 

I agree with this & I don't mean by trampling over others to get there first. I've not been in this situation, so don't really know... But I think getting folk into the life boats as quickly & safely as possible has got to be better than telling some one who's scared & panicking that they can't get in the life boat yet because they are the wrong age or gender, or splitting up families at a time when you probably need the comfort of knowing your loved ones are around you.

 

 

My partner & I have just agreed that we'll each fend for ourselves rather than waiting to find the other, before getting of the ship. Is this risky? Yes, for one.....but not for two.

 

 

.

[MrJulius]

Interestingingly enough - twice in my life I found myself in situations that while not positively life-threatening (not likely I would actually DIE but I would certainly suffer significant injury if things escalated - which in both cases was a serious possibility). In one case I did not even think. My body just seemed to do the automatic thing (interposing my body between a child (unrelated) and danger and snatching up the child and running) - so I take no credit - it really was an automatic response. On the other occasion, I had to put myself in a dangerous position to help someone out who was trapped in a car after an accident. There was some thought involved. I had to decide whether to keep myself safe or actually do what needed to be done and get this person out even though it put me in a very dangerous position. I made the right choice and helped him get out.

 

I most certainly don't perceive myself to be "extraordinary" - I think I am a normal human being with a normal moral compass that so far has worked pretty well. I have NO idea how I would have behaved on this ship but I do believe the correct attitude is NOT "every man for himself" or "trample and shove aside the weak to get to the front of the lin

e" (which according to reports apparently did happen on the Concordia).

 

 

Zeno,

Those who have never been in your position but proclaim their heroic actions is what I was referring to with my "extraordinary human beings" comment. I have no doubt how you would have acted aboard that ship based upon your other encounters.

 

We all would like people to always jump in and help others, but more times than not you see them standing around capturing the event on their cell phones instead.

[Milaandra]

Your comparison does not even make sense, you can not learn to fly but you CAN learn to swim.

 

The comparison does make sense. Even though you can't fly, you get on an airplane to take a vacation. What's the difference? Are you suggesting that cruising isn't transportation?

 

Oh, and not everyone can learn to swim.

 

Or would you go mountain climbing without instruction? Or camping without proper preparation and knowing what to do if a bear or mountain lion crosses your path? My point is that when people are properly prepared for an emergency their odds at survival are better.

 

I think I'm properly prepared for an emergency on a cruise ship. I know where my life jacket is, I know where my muster station is. The cruise company seems to think that's the proper preparation. I've been on Carnival, NCL and Cunard, and none of them have asked me if I can swim.

 

The chances of being in a cruise ship disaster without access to my assigned lifeboat is slight...much slighter than being in a plane crash. You're willing to take the chance in a plane even though you can't flap your wings to safety. If you think being a non-swimmer on a cruise is reckless and stupid, isn't it reckless and stupid to be on a plane when you (in fact no one) can fly?

 

I just feel like if people weren't afraid of drowning they may be a little more calm & courteous in an emergency around water.

 

I'll bet that many of those who displayed a lack of calmness and courtesy aboard the Concordia knew how to swim.

[nellydean]

The Daily Mail has done a very interesting piece on the history of women and children first, and the comparison with the Costa Concordia and the Titanic, although chivalry has not always been so prominent, according to a lot of the incidents it reports on:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2087585/Cruise-ship-Costa-Concordia-sinking-Whatever-happened-women-children-first.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

 

and another, more general comment, piece in the daily express, about a ship that has 'died of shame'

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/296071

[goinmobile68]

Dear All

 

 

Perhaps it should be families first, ie those with children under eighteen.

 

I would appreciate your comments.

 

Wow! It's nice to know that a person's worth is determined by the measure of their fertility! Single, infertile, or just choose not to compete in the "Breeders Cup"...back of the line with you! Nice!

 

If acupuncture can be offered onboard, can euthinasia be far behind?

 

At least it explains why, on my Alaska cruise, the crew was rounding up the seniors & setting them off on the ice floes!

 

:)

[goinmobile68]

First class passengers first!!

 

Ok.. They really don't have classes so much like they used to. So.. Suite passengers first! Then go by frequent cruiser status.

 

 

;)

 

Of course! The loyalty program members have more cruises with the line & would tend to be more likely to cruise in the future, so from a bottom line outlook, the cruise line would be crazy NOT to want them safe. Dead folks don't cruise (much?)

[Love.II.Cruise]

After reading through some of the replies earlier and leaving mad, I decided to come back and post.

 

I've been swimming since 3 and consider myself a strong swimmer. My DH is not. In fact a year ago during snorkeling I had to drag him to safety due to his mask not sealing properly, strong current, and lack of strong swimming skills. He really scared me and I thought he was going to drown. But I'd rather him suffocate me - with me trying to save him than just leave him. I even swam under water and grabbed his hips and kicked as hard as possible to keep him above the waves while he struggled to adjust his mask! Now that I know how bad a swimmer he is (he will always have some sort of floatation device or life vest - he did fine in the past but these conditions really made me understood how quickly things can go sour). I plan to take serious swimming lessons with him this summer before our next cruise.

 

I WILL never leave him behind on a ship that is sinking (whether we can see the shore or not). Either we both die or both live. Neither one of us wants to live without the other. If they said "women and children first," I will never leave without my husband. PERIOD!

[MoreLemonPledge]

I think maybe before you are allowed to board you need to submit a 1000 word essay to a panel of judges. The most articulate, best reasoned essays addressing the topic "why I deserve priority lifeboat boarding" will be selected. Colored wrist bands would be issued based on how your essay was ranked by the judges. So, for example, those with a green wrist band would get priority over those with blue, then orange, etc. This would greatly speed the off-loading and ensure those deemed most worthy would be guaranteed seating on the limited life boats.

[Sincity]

Until your "moment of truth" arrives you are merely speculating from the comfort of your computer chair as to what your actions would be. No way around that one, folks.

 

Agreed. It would be a tough call for me since our instinct is to survive. I know that I would place my family before myself or anyone else and that is my honest opinon.