Concordia News: Please Post Here

[Uniall]

"Where is the outrage and anger against this man who put his love life, ego mania and self agrandizment above the safety of ship, crew and passengers? "

 

Media Speculation! and as yet unproved.

 

The Last Salute team are trying to rent a room on Giglio in order to get the cam up and running.

 

 

You and I have debated this over and over. It's pointless to rehash it.

 

Suffice to say, It has been and contiues to be my considered opinion that the overwhelming public cirmstantial evidence, public admissions by the Captain and numerous statements of Dominca and other witnesses mandate the concluding he is responsible for the collision and he subsequent deriliction of duty.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Oh, gosh, BlackHawk1. I musta been typing while you posted. You asked my question much more succinctly and clearly! :)

 

 

The Duty Officer on the bridge is still in command when the Master may enter the bridge.

 

The Master as a courtesy, will likely advise the Duty Officer he is taking command, but in actual operation giving a order is all it takes to have command.

 

There was no signing/logging in on any of my ships and I don't believe so on cruise ships.

 

 

AKK

[cruiserfanfromct]

Either way, this is quite an eery photo of what was a dying ship...with people, both alive and dead still aboard her...

...and a Captain, safe and dry ... staring at a sinking ship.

 

After Schettino left the ship, Giglio’s police chief, Roberto Galli, was stunned to find the captain sitting on the rocks at the shore watching the ship sink. When he encouraged Schettino to return to the ship the captain told him, “No, I want to stay here, to verify conditions on the ship.” Galli stayed with him for 30 minutes. “At one point, Schettino asked to use my telephone, because his was running out of juice. I wasn’t giving this guy my phone. Because, unlike him, I was trying to save people,” Galli says. “Finally, when I was about to leave, they asked for a blanket and tea. I said, ‘If you come back with me, I’ll give you whatever you want.’ But he didn’t move. So I left.”

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/04/costa-concordia-disaster-bryan-burrough

 

Sergio Ortelli, the mayor of Giglio, told The Times that Captain Schettino, 52, was seen on land within minutes of giving the order to abandon ship.

"My police chief told me that the captain was on the rocks just in front of the ship shortly after 11pm. He was dry. There were many people still inside the ship. He's incredible, this man."

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/costa-concordia/i-fell-into-lifeboatcosta-concordia-skipper-francesco-schettino-says/story-fnbvduqy-1226248041712

 

Some of you will say these are just news reports and not to be believed but there are NO news stories -- absolutely NONE out there that report Schettino helping out just one passenger -- they just don't exist. If anyone can post anything that indicates Schettino actually coordinated the evacution or helped passengers, PLEASE POST HERE. Thanks.

[cruiserfanfromct]

CT ... Apologies for the misunderstanding re wiki ... :)

No worries Sid. Thanks for your reply. :)

[SomeBeach]

CT said:

"If anyone can post anything that indicates Schettino actually coordinated the evacution or helped passengers, PLEASE POST HERE. Thanks."

 

Well he did finely give the official order to abandon ship... probably because he wanted to get the he!! off of it and turn the whole mess over to the CG.

I know that sounds like a smart alect response and it is meant to be. I want to point out that it is not directed at CT.

I also recognize the fact that 32 people did not survive so that may make what I said seem inappropriate but I do not mean it to be disrespectful to their memory.

While I am still awaiting the official report, at this time I don't believe the Captain did some great job of steering the ship to where it lays. I'm with others that have the opinion that winds and currents played a bigger part.

[watertheodds]

 

This is probably a dumb question - and no doubt that will be pointed out quickly enough by this group but.... On google search the above is the planned route by Concordia. This appears to be to the east of Gigilo and I recall reading that Giglo residents said all large ships typically pass to the east of the island which is the shipping lanes as this map shows.

 

 

 

 

 

so it seems to me the course was deviated from twice by the Captain. My question for you mariners out there, is it possible that Costa would regularly approve and use the route between Giglio and the mainland rather than stay in the shipping lanes to save on fuel and then the deviation from the "scenic route" to even closer to the island the fault of the captain's showboating?

[MorganMars]

watertheodds,

 

A number of previous posts addressed this and I am having technical difficulties quoting your message and locating the previous posts, so please forgive the quick reply. There is no problem with ships traveling east of the island and that is a typical course. The "voyage plan" can be found beginning on page 8 in the Investigative Report at http://www.seereisenportal.de/fileadmin/Downloads/Italian_Maritime_MSC90_Presentation_Costa_Concordia.pdf

 

Even that planned course presents no difficulties, but there was obviously a navigational error that took the ship too close to shore. There is a difference between a course deviation and a navigational error. Course deviations are typically planned and properly executed. Navigational errors are not . Also, please keep in mind that many navigational errors result in no damage. Navigational errors can result from several causes, but it normally involves human error.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

[silverfoxcruiser]

I've been reading this thread for the last week and have found it fascinating... to have so many knowledgeable, articulate posters with the ability to make an extremely complex situation understandable to the rest of us is amazing. This is a great example of how Cruise Critic can shine and inform those of us who are following along.

 

Please don't ruin it Uniall, try to detach from petty emotion and let this thread continue to educate us all... there are thousands who will be reading these words and they'll be learning more here than they'll learn anywhere else about this tragedy.

 

Hear, Hear!Silver

[MorganMars]

Ok, that (Watertheodds) reminded me of this:

 

"The Lighthouse Joke"

 

The following is being transmitted around the Internet as an event that really took place, but it never happened. It is simply an old joke like those found in popular magazines:

Believe it or not...this is the transcript of an actual radio conversation between a US naval ship and Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October 1995. The Radio conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on Oct. 10, 1995.

 

US Ship:

Please divert your course 0.5 degrees to the south to avoid a collision.

 

CND reply:

Recommend you divert

your

course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

 

US Ship:

This is the Captain of a US Navy Ship. I say again, divert

your

course.

 

CND reply:

No. I say again, you divert YOUR course!

 

US Ship:

THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS CORAL SEA*, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!!

 

CND reply:

This is a lighthouse. Your call.

 

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=174

Edited August 13, 2012 by MorganMars

[Starlight Durban Cruising]

There was a picture on the web that I saw this last week (from the Last Salute site) that showed the hole in the hull where the rock used to be. In the same picture above it are multiple square plates on the exterior of the hull which I think was probably a few decks up, so that looks to me like OV cabin windows that have been welded/plated shut. Perhaps they will do the same process with the hole where the rock was removed.

[CostaSmurfette]

Since the USN have now been brought into the equation...albeit in a long standing joke...

 

 

Which Captain is going to get it in the wotsits forthis then, eh?

 

One of the U.S. Navy's guided-missile destroyers was damaged when it collided with an oil tanker early Sunday just outside the strategic Strait of Hormuz.

 

The collision left a gaping hole in the starboard side of USS Porter but no one was injured on either vessel, the U.S. Navy said in a statement.

 

The collision with the Panamanian-flagged bulk oil tanker M/V Otowasan occurred at approximately 1 am local time.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187303/USS-Porter-Mid-sea-drama-tanker-rips-huge-hole-U-S-Navy-ship-late-night-collision.html#ixzz23PCsHvUd

 

Personally, I kinda like one of the comments posted underneath...

 

"If a guided missile destroyer cannot see something the size of a tanker coming towards it then what hope of it tracking a far-off enemy aircraft? None; obviously."

 

Oh the irony....

 

On a serious note though, if anyone really wanted to know why the US and Iran don't see eye to eye....Google Iran Air 655 and all will be explained...a tragedy that should never have happened and one that went completely unpunished....so I guess some Captains/Commanders are untouchable afterall.

Edited August 13, 2012 by CostaSmurfette

[Ratt]

Ok, that (Watertheodds) reminded me of this:

 

"The Lighthouse Joke"

 

The following is being transmitted around the Internet as an event that really took place, but it never happened. It is simply an old joke like those found in popular magazines:

Believe it or not...this is the transcript of an actual radio conversation between a US naval ship and Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October 1995. The Radio conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on Oct. 10, 1995.

 

US Ship:

Please divert your course 0.5 degrees to the south to avoid a collision.

 

CND reply:

Recommend you divert

your

course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

 

US Ship:

This is the Captain of a US Navy Ship. I say again, divert

your

course.

 

CND reply:

No. I say again, you divert YOUR course!

 

US Ship:

THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS CORAL SEA*, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!!

 

CND reply:

This is a lighthouse. Your call.

 

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=174

 

That is funny.

 

I wonder if the master was on the bridge when this happen?

http://news.yahoo.com/uss-porter-collides-oil-tanker-persian-gulf-154316865--abc-news-topstories.html

[sidari]

watertheodds ... cruise ships pass to the West of Giglio when heading South and as you say to the East heading North.

[CostaSmurfette]

Certain sections of this community on CC are of the opinion that the buck stops with the bloke in charge regardless, and that the bloke in charge nust take the public flogging even if he/she was not at the helm at the time a mistake is made.

 

Well, there is a double standard then.

 

Incase no-one can be bothered to Google IR655...

 

July 3, 1988....Iran Air 655 was making its way from Dubai to Bandar Abbas on a scheduled airline flight, 290 souls on board...they never made it.

 

Below them was a USN ship, the Vincennes...her well qualified commander was being nosey, going against a request from his boss to return to base...now it is debateable as to whether or not the Vincennes commander wanted to make a mark in history or whether it was an adrenaline rush that wasn't controlled...IR655 was blasted out of the sky, killing all 290 people.

 

It was a mistake....probably due to some over excitement and over enthusiasm in the ranks. What made it harder to explain was the fact that a documentary crew were aboard at the time and they saw/heard everything...and filmed it.

 

If you're going to make a mistake, do it on film.

 

Now...nationalities distrusting each other aside...when Vincennes arrived back in her home port of San Diego after this "mistake", she was given a heroes welcome...which rubbed salt into many wounds.

 

The commander and his fellow officers and ratings were tried and found not guilty...they went unpunished.

 

So...there is no such thing as the buck stopping with the bloke in charge, the commander does not take ultimate responsibility for his ship and the actions taken therein.

 

One rule for some, another for others..changeable at a whim.

 

So please do not try and say that ALL captains/commanders take the responsibility for their crew's actions, cos no they do not...nor are they all punished when "mistakes" are made, not even mistakes that cost 290 innocent lives....I guess its easy to muddle a Tomcat with an A310 airliner...

 

And people wonder why there is deep mistrust tween Iran and the USA...all the Iranians wanted was an apology...they're still waiting for it.

[clive and anne]

Thanks for all the help folks.

 

The Last Salute on Facebook is basically a plea for financial contributions so they can rent an apartment as Sidari told us.You can donate via Paypal.

 

I hadnt noticed the plates covering the port holes on the Port side. Thanks Starlight Durban Cruising. Would this be to minimise the amount of polluted water coming out when she is righted ?? Will this be pumped out into a tanker or something before she is towed away?

[sidari]

The covers over the windows will likely be to prevent glass breakage when the sponsons are attached to the side of the ship and to prevent damage to the cabins along the port side that will in effect be undamaged from the accident,there may be other reasons of course which someone may make us aware of.

 

On the photo of the port side a metal staircase had been fixed to the ship to make access easier.

[Tonka's Skipper]

The covers over the windows will likely be to prevent glass breakage when the sponsons are attached to the side of the ship and to prevent damage to the cabins along the port side that will in effect be undamaged from the accident,there may be other reasons of course which someone may make us aware of.

 

On the photo of the port side a metal staircase had been fixed to the ship to make access easier.

 

Morning Sidari

 

 

with the hull floated, All the cabins are by now soaked in seawater/moisture. The moisture will have permeated the fixtures, bulkhead materials and into the electrical. Nothing would be salvageable.

 

AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

Certain sections of this community on CC are of the opinion that the buck stops with the bloke in charge regardless, and that the bloke in charge nust take the public flogging even if he/she was not at the helm at the time a mistake is made.

 

Well, there is a double standard then.

 

Incase no-one can be bothered to Google IR655...

 

July 3, 1988....Iran Air 655 was making its way from Dubai to Bandar Abbas on a scheduled airline flight, 290 souls on board...they never made it.

 

Below them was a USN ship, the Vincennes...her well qualified commander was being nosey, going against a request from his boss to return to base...now it is debateable as to whether or not the Vincennes commander wanted to make a mark in history or whether it was an adrenaline rush that wasn't controlled...IR655 was blasted out of the sky, killing all 290 people.

 

It was a mistake....probably due to some over excitement and over enthusiasm in the ranks. What made it harder to explain was the fact that a documentary crew were aboard at the time and they saw/heard everything...and filmed it.

 

If you're going to make a mistake, do it on film.

 

Now...nationalities distrusting each other aside...when Vincennes arrived back in her home port of San Diego after this "mistake", she was given a heroes welcome...which rubbed salt into many wounds.

 

The commander and his fellow officers and ratings were tried and found not guilty...they went unpunished.

 

So...there is no such thing as the buck stopping with the bloke in charge, the commander does not take ultimate responsibility for his ship and the actions taken therein.

 

One rule for some, another for others..changeable at a whim.

 

So please do not try and say that ALL captains/commanders take the responsibility for their crew's actions, cos no they do not...nor are they all punished when "mistakes" are made, not even mistakes that cost 290 innocent lives....I guess its easy to muddle a Tomcat with an A310 airliner...

 

And people wonder why there is deep mistrust tween Iran and the USA...all the Iranians wanted was an apology...they're still waiting for it.

 

 

I guess that now everyone knows what you are and you have no credibility..you go to politics and attach the USA?

 

 

Shame we saved the UK in 2 wars from now having to speak German.

 

AKK

[clive and anne]

I wonder about such things as jewellry, which may have sentimental value to its owners, in cabin safes ?

It would be interesting to hear from any survivors from the port side cabins as yet out of the water whether they have been contacted about the return of their property. Not sure who this now belongs to legally.

 

Clive

[CostaSmurfette]

I guess that now everyone knows what you are and you have no credibility..you go to politics and attach the USA?

 

 

Shame we saved the UK in 2 wars from now having to speak German.

 

AKK

 

No attack at all...a mere confirmation regarding accountability of the master of a ship...or, indeed, the lack of it.

 

Why not explain the difference tween accountability of a military ship's master and that of a civilian ship's master?

 

Why not explain why 290 lives meant nothing cos it was a military mistake, yet the lives of 32 is a hanging offence cos it was a civilian mistake?

 

Why did the military feel that they were above all recrimination when one of their highly trained commanders not only disobeyed orders but then ventured into foreign sea territory and opened fire on a civilian airliner...and then returned home to a hero's welcome?

 

Do not make the assumption that ALL masters of ALL ships are accountable for their actions. They are not, never have been and never will be.

[balf]

Like many others I came to this thread because I was interested and wished to get any news of the Concordia disaster. That's why it is called "Concordia news, please post here" What do we get now, constant yah boos that go from one poster to another that does nothing help any of us to understand the issues.

 

So could I suggest that when the next elongated reply to the last elongated reply is posted everyone ignores it. Some here are posting multiple posts just to boost up their already inflated egos and the last thing they want is to be ignored.

 

Let's stop it here: threads have been deleted by the management for far less in the past.

 

David.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Like many others I came to this thread because I was interested and wished to get any news of the Concordia disaster. That's why it is called "Concordia news, please post here" What do we get now, constant yah boos that go from one poster to another that does nothing help any of us to understand the issues.

 

So could I suggest that when the next elongated reply to the last elongated reply is posted everyone ignores it. Some here are posting multiple posts just to boost up their already inflated egos and the last thing they want is to be ignored.

 

Let's stop it here: threads have been deleted by the management for far less in the past.

 

David.

 

 

I agree David, The best thing to do now is to ignore sc.

 

AKK

[Tonka's Skipper]

I wonder about such things as jewellry, which may have sentimental value to its owners, in cabin safes ?

It would be interesting to hear from any survivors from the port side cabins as yet out of the water whether they have been contacted about the return of their property. Not sure who this now belongs to legally.

 

Clive

 

 

This has come up before, Clive, the plan is to right the vessel and then after she was been towed to the shipyard or scrapyard, all personal effects still on board are supposed to be returned to the owners.

 

AKK

[CostaSmurfette]

I'll be glad when the hull has been removed and life can return to normal again....I doubt many of the people on Giglio will miss that hull or the frenzy surrounding it too.

 

I can see at least 4-7 of the below potential causes being cited.....

 

Human error by one and/or more personnel on the bridge.

An over-reliance on technology.

Inability or unwillingness to question orders or direction between officers & crew on the bridge.

Inaccuracy of paper charting.

Unreliability of instrumentation by design flaw and/or poor training in its usage.

Complacency throughout the cruise industry regarding the "it'll never happen to us" syndrome.

Potentially fatal design flaws in the construction, design and general day to day running of the vessel.

 

All the above have been suffered by the airline industry, all of which have cost thousands of lives, all of which were identified too late as potential problems on the flightdeck....the same problems have also been identified in shipping accidents but so far not acted upon industry wide, unlike in aviation where all have been accepted as failures in the safe running of aircraft.

 

Hopefully the cruise industry - if not the entire shipping industry - will now act on these well known and documented failures so that accidents like Concordia can never ever happen again in the future.

[sidari]

Tonka .... I fail to see what the two world wars have to do with this thread? And maybe you should delete the comment regarding it.