Smoking on Balconies

[WpgCruise]

I followed both links below, and neither provides a definitive source of the fire. The closest is the official report which reads in part "it is considered the most likely source of ignition was a discarded cigarette end"

 

It has never been determined the cause of the fire, only a likely cause.

 

While some people may object to smoking, and look for reasons to ban it, we need to use facts to support the argument.

 

Saying smoking was the cause of the Star Princess fire is false and misleading as the true cause has not been determined

 

 

 

 

In Australia all the cruise ships based here dont allow smoking on balcony, in cabins or inside bars, casinos and restaurants. Smoking is only permitted in DOSAs (designated outdoor smoking area)

 

I think alot was the result of local smoking laws.

 

Have you read the Star Princess reports?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11975460/ns/us_news-life/t/cigarette-eyed-cause-cruise-blaze/

 

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/star%20princess.pdf

[littlesteelo]

It is pretty likely the Star Princess incident was caused by a cigarette. There isn't anything else on the balconies which would cause the furniture to catch fire.

 

Regardless of that, since the incident SOLAS regulations were changed so that all ships had to be fitted with fire suppressant systems on the balconies as well as inside the cabins.

[BORDER REIVER]

Blackrat, with regard to the smoking on balconies, I think you've been very unlucky there. We've recently returned from a 14 day cruise on Queen Elizabeth and other than a handful of dedicated smokers in the smoking are on deck, we never saw or smelled smoke while using our balcony, which we used a lot. The same applied to a 18 day cruise on Aurora 3 years ago, little evidence of balcony smoking there too.

My wife has a very acute sense of smell and she would have smelled the slightest whiff of smoke in the corridors too, but there was nothing, certainly not in our area.

When we were walking on the promenade deck we just held our breath as we walked past the smoking area.

Maybe shorter cruises attract more smokers because of the relative cheapness of the cruise.

[ibfishing2]

BORDER REIVER

Maybe shorter cruises attract more smokers because of the relative cheapness of the cruise.

__________________

 

:confused::confused::confused:

[BORDER REIVER]

__________________

 

:confused::confused::confused:

It's just a wild guess, I really don't know. I have a friend who smokes heavily and he says they cannot afford expensive / long holidays because his smoking costs him dear. They only go away for a few days or a week at most.

My cousin doesn't holiday at all. She chain-smokes and says she cannot afford to go anywhere on holiday.

Maybe there's no connection at all between how much people are prepared to spend on a cruise and how much they spend on smoking, but maybe they can afford to go on a short cruise, because they can be extremely good value for money.

[Winkster]

Blackrat, with regard to the smoking on balconies, I think you've been very unlucky there. We've recently returned from a 14 day cruise on Queen Elizabeth and other than a handful of dedicated smokers in the smoking are on deck, we never saw or smelled smoke while using our balcony, which we used a lot. The same applied to a 18 day cruise on Aurora 3 years ago...

 

I'm not sure if Blackrat was unlucky or you've been lucky.

 

We've just got back from the Aurora and had a chain-smoker next door. You heard her cabin door go, then the balcony door opened, the lighter clicked and seconds later our balcony stunk of smoke. Straight after the first cigarette, she'd light a second.

 

My Dad came back from a Black Sea cruise last year and also complained of the same thing.

 

Funnily enough, at lunch one day on our cruise, we were chatting to a couple who were also getting smoked out on their balcony by a chain smoker. Turns out it was the same one - they were 2 doors down on the other side of fag-ash Lil! It seems smoke doesn't necessarily blow from front to back when at sea.

 

 

 

 

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[FredChopin]

For those worried about P&O losing customers if smokers were restricted further, the same suggestion was made with smoking in pubs. Not only did that not come true but they attracted customers who would previously avoid smoke filled pubs. Can't say I've missed smelling like an ashtray after a visit to a pub.

 

BR

 

Where on earth do you get that idea from? Some good friends of mine were publicans at the time the smoking ban came into force. Their turnover went down like a lead balloon and they only just managed to escape bankruptcy. The press reports over the years have reflected this. A lot of pubs are now being run by brewers with managers in place, instead of landlords.

I am another non-smoker, but can't help feeling that we have a mountain being made out of a molehill here. I've done 35 P&O cruises and several on the new Celebrity ships. I can't say I've noticed any discernible difference between the quality of air on the balconies on either company's ships.

Live and let live. I find over use of perfume to be much more objectionable. You can't ban these ladies to one portion of the ship, you have to put up with it in the theatre, and in the dining room it completely puts me off my dinner.

If you ban smoking from balconies you will all be moaning about the concentration of smoke in the permitted areas because smokers all have to congregate there. At least you get fewer smokers on the open decks where they are nearer to non-smokers if they are able to use their balconies.

[Winkster]

It's bad enough when a smoker walks past stinking like a stale ashtray. I'd rather not have that wafted over me in case I end up smelling like them.

 

Still, live and let live (or live and passive-smoke someone to death maybe). I'm happy for the smokers to get their own area.

 

Maybe P&O could let a small dingy out behind the ship on a rope. Smokers could get in, let the rope out to full length and light up. Then they could pollute each other and leave the ship nice and smoke-free.

 

Or maybe reserve the smokers a small broom cupboard on a lower deck where they can all cram in and smoke each other to death.

 

That'd work wouldn't it?

 

Problem solved. Everyone's a winner!

 

 

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[Roxally]

Where on earth do you get that idea from? Some good friends of mine were publicans at the time the smoking ban came into force. Their turnover went down like a lead balloon and they only just managed to escape bankruptcy. The press reports over the years have reflected this. A lot of pubs are now being run by brewers with managers in place, instead of landlords.

I am another non-smoker, but can't help feeling that we have a mountain being made out of a molehill here. I've done 35 P&O cruises and several on the new Celebrity ships. I can't say I've noticed any discernible difference between the quality of air on the balconies on either company's ships.

Live and let live. I find over use of perfume to be much more objectionable. You can't ban these ladies to one portion of the ship, you have to put up with it in the theatre, and in the dining room it completely puts me off my dinner.

If you ban smoking from balconies you will all be moaning about the concentration of smoke in the permitted areas because smokers all have to congregate there. At least you get fewer smokers on the open decks where they are nearer to non-smokers if they are able to use their balconies.

 

 

Totally agree with you a number of pubs in the west midlands have gone to the wall since the smoking ban. Those folk who complained that they couldn't/wouldn't go to a pub because of smoke didn't go anyway after the ban. As a non smoker I'd rather be in the company of a smoker than a bore. P&O should keep allowing smoking on balcony's. Some people just moan for the sake of it. Live and let live. Life is too short.

[carhirer]

Totally agree with you a number of pubs in the west midlands have gone to the wall since the smoking ban. Those folk who complained that they couldn't/wouldn't go to a pub because of smoke didn't go anyway after the ban. As a non smoker I'd rather be in the company of a smoker than a bore. P&O should keep allowing smoking on balcony's. Some people just moan for the sake of it. Live and let live. Life is too short.

 

The pubs which have survived are the ones which have re-branded themselves as pub/restaurants, to attract people who wish to drink and/or eat, while being able to breathe.

 

I too find it difficult to believe that smoke from a balcony, with a sea breeze/gale force wind, can be a serious problem.

 

If there is a problem, I would guess that this is because smokers are leaving the balcony doors open, wandering in and out, and causing the aircon to suck the smoke into the system and out into the corridoors and neighbouring cabins. Warm air from outside also stresses the system. This is anti-social behaviour, pure and simple.

 

Can the aircon be switched off individually in cabins?

[tartanexile81]

The pubs which have survived are the ones which have re-branded themselves as pub/restaurants, to attract people who wish to drink and/or eat, while being able to breathe.

 

I too find it difficult to believe that smoke from a balcony, with a sea breeze/gale force wind, can be a serious problem.

 

If there is a problem, I would guess that this is because smokers are leaving the balcony doors open, wandering in and out, and causing the aircon to suck the smoke into the system and out into the corridoors and neighbouring cabins. Warm air from outside also stresses the system. This is anti-social behaviour, pure and simple.

 

Can the aircon be switched off individually in cabins?

 

I've been told that the aircon can't be switched off.

 

Truly, smoking does cause a problem on balconies if the person is a heavy smoker. As I said earlier my OH has a lung condition and we always avoid smelling / inhaling smoke. The pipe-smoker on celebrity (pre-ban) caused us a real problem.

[gadabout60]

Well I am just back from a fantastic cruise on Adonia to the Baltics - it exceeded all my expectations

 

but

 

for the first time ever on a cruise we had smokers next door and it was foul. The weather was very warm so when we were in the cabin we had the balcony doors open until the neighbours started smoking - the smell came straight into our cabin. When they were smoking we couldn't use the balcony at all and had to shut the door. To compare smokers with the disabled or elderly is offensive - smokers choose to smoke. They should have a designated area - end of story. There should be no smoking in any cabins or any balconies. We are in the 21st century and shouldn't have to put up with foul smoke and a foul smell.

 

Other people on the cruise also complained about smokers in adjoining cabins.

 

I intend to email P&O but am not hopeful they will be supportive. For my next cruise I will definitely look at Celebrity again and may only book P&O for winter cruising when I will be using the balcony less

[Blackrat]

I guess for those non-smokers who have never had a problem with fellow passengers smoking its difficult to appreciate until it affects you.

 

Common sense tells you that it's outside and usually a stiff wind will blow all the smoke downwind so how on earth could I be affected? This rat chap has obviously got some beef against the poor smokers, live and let live, what have they ever done to him? I understand the cynicism and probably would have the same opinion if I hadn't experienced it first hand.

 

What I am talking about are corridors that smell like pubs outside the cabins, let alone inside, aircon units above your bed blowing the smell of smoke into your face as you try and sleep. Comments were made onboard ship and at the time but I appreciate its very difficult for the staff to deal with.

 

Those who think P&O wont listen are wrong. It wont happen over night but it will happen, they wont always keep their customers happy but shareholders now that's a different matter.

 

Was I just unlucky? Well maybe so. Is this a direct result of bargain basement fares? Why should that be linked to smoking? Interesting idea, perhaps we will see more of this as customers sail on their bargain holidays over the next few weeks or months. Should ladies who put too much perfume on be banned? Don't be silly they should just stand out on deck with the smokers. Smoker or bore? Neither thanks. I wonder if they allow portable barbies on the balconies?

 

Cheers,

BR

[lynne17]

Hello again Blackrat.

 

Keep up the good work and hopefully one day soon, with your influence and other shareholders, P&O will ban balcony smoking. I'm pretty sure it WILL happen - the sooner the better. I don't hold out much hope that it will occur before my next cruise on Azura, August 2014, but you never know.......... I will repeat again, I do not think it fair that smoking is completely banned on ships, but I would like my RIGHT to breathe smoke-free air on my private space on my private balcony to be upheld by P&O policy. Regards, Lynne

[Scriv]

I totally agree.

[Blackrat]

Thanks for the support, I'm afraid it could never be a quick fix and I don't believe anything could be done within the life of the current brochures.

 

I think this will be a long drawn out process probably with some independent market testing to ensure that correct decisions are made long before anything takes place.

 

Again I would suggest better conditions for smokers with a proper air conditioned, comfortable room rather than the poor souls having to stand outside whatever the weather but still with half the prom/sun deck available.

 

Cheers,

BR

[lynne17]

Hi Blackrat

 

Never in a million years did I believe the quest to ban balcony smoking would happen so quickly. I can now look forward to enjoying my balcony next year, knowing it will not be affected by cigarette/cigar smoke.

 

I do, however, have much sympathy for those smokers that had already booked, and hope they are able to get a refund if they so wish.

 

Regards, Lynne

[KeithSanford]

I was on your cruise, ('A' deck, forward, starboard) and my wife and I both smoke. However, we always close the balcony door out of respect to others, whilst adjoining passengers, (up/down wind), like us, have a choice to make?

 

Unfortunately, pleasing everyone, all the time, is impossible!

[tring]

I have posted this on the new thread on smoking on balconies which is discussing the new policy of banning smoking on balconies as it is reported there that P&O are refusing refunds.

 

I have this from someone who spent a career dealing with consumer law:-

 

In the first edition P&O 2013 brochure under the 'you need to know' section it states where you cannot smoke, but says smoking 'will be permitted on balconies'. To change this, is a significant amendment and so the Package Travel etc, Regulations come into play. Hence P&O must advise passengers and allow them to cancel with full refund (extra compensation not payable). P&O's terms and conditions cannot override those regulations, which are EU law.

 

If someone books a cruise which does not allow smoking on balconies at the time of booking and a passenger is afffected in some way by the smoking, and P&O do nothing about it, then P&O are liable for breach of contract. P&O could therefore be sued.

 

I suggest anyone told differently to contact the Citizens Advice consumer service on 08454 04 05 05, or online, so that Trading Standards can be involved.

[gillianrose]

I would just like to say that I am very pleased with P&O's decision to ban all balcony smoking next year, along with ALL INDOOR SMOKING, including cabins, next year.

 

Since P&O has three ships which are restricted to people over 18 AND there is no indoor smoking and no balcony smoking after March, 2014, I am sure that P&O will get a lot of new customers for those ships, especially for cruises during school holidays.

[Blackrat]

I have to say that I am a little surprised that P&O have responded as quickly as they did. I am even more surprised that they have brought this in within the lifetime of the current brochure.

 

Hopefully they will also respond to fitting out a room within the ship for smokers in addition to the deck areas.

 

Apologies to the few considerate smokers who have been let down by the rest.

 

Cheers,

BR

[cruisebore]

I would just like to say that I am very pleased with P&O's decision to ban all balcony smoking next year, along with ALL INDOOR SMOKING, including cabins, next year.

 

Since P&O has three ships which are restricted to people over 18 AND there is no indoor smoking and no balcony smoking after March, 2014, I am sure that P&O will get a lot of new customers for those ships, especially for cruises during school holidays.

 

Yes should be quite an interesting bunch of self absorbed folk . Wonder what they will find to complain about :rolleyes: