pre paid tips ? Why do some not pay

[Joeychgo]

We cancel automatic tips also...

 

Several reasons.

 

First, on a 7 day cruise, we might only eat in the MDR once or twice for dinner. (never breakfast) I'm not tipping the MDR staff when I eat in the steakhouse or room service because now I'm double tipping. At the end of the cruise we'll tip the appropriate amount for what we did in the MDR. Of course, steakhouse and room service are tipped at the time of service.

 

I give the room steward some cash at the beginning of the cruise and tell him/her I'll settle up the rest at the end of the cruise.

[Velvetwater]

Some people think they should pay a wage like that what is paid in the US or Canada. If that happened cruising would become the purview of the very rich and famous. The mass cruising like it currently exists won't exist.

.

 

That is ridiculous. If you look at P and O cruise lines UK (Owned by Carnival Corp) and others who are cheap, if not cheaper than a lot of American based cruise lines. They only insist you pay £3 a day for everything. Same goes for Carnival in Oz people have to pay with their fare and it still attracts a large market. There is also Aida cruise lines in Germany that included tips in its fare.

 

The big giants know that by making cruisers pay tips they can make more money. There are countless european/African/Aussie resorts and cruises that operate a small tips or tips included policy and are visited by 'normal' tourists.

 

Gratuities means gift and some take that literally.

 

I for one would love cruise lines to include tips in their upfront price, it would give less worry to the worker on board and honesty to the customer. Lets be honest you would be paying the same price if that happened anyway.

 

Saying someone is cheap is being ignorant, how can someone be cheap if they want tips included in the fare? There are some people that disagree with the ethics of it (I am one of them). I removed my tips on my recent cruise and paid people concerned in a good amount of cash. If the service I received was shocking I would have paid nothing. Thankfully everyone was lovely so it was deserved.People from outside the US/Egypt et al view their particular tipping policy as corrupt and ridiculous. Over 90% of the world's countries have pay that is wage based.

[cj_one2000]

 

The system allows cheap people to take advantage and stiff the service staff, which is not right. How would they like it if they worked for free for a week?

 

 

This is just the thing that gets me every time this type of thread is brought up on any cruise line forum here on Cruise Critic. People are confusing gratuity with paid wages. It is NOT your responsibility as a passenger to pay any employee's salary directly. That is the job of their employer, the cruise line itself. Cruise staff do not work for free, everyone knows that.

 

However, should you decide to pay gratuity to a staff member it is your choice to do so, as whatever you give is a gift, a thank you for service you feel is deserved. It should not be forced by the cruise line if they do not have a policy in place nor should anyone be pressured by their fellow passengers to pay gratuities to their standards. Because the cruise line provided a policy with an open door for the passenger to choose whether to not to pay gratuities, and in the manner they'd like to give (auto, pre-pay or cash) this issue will always exist.

 

Also, to judge someone on the last night of the cruise taking the auto tip off their account at guest services -- how would you know if they wanted to personally hand cash to staff directly instead? That's the thing, you don't and you can't know. So stop calling people cheap and whatever else makes you feel good about yourself as an all-mighty tip giver.

 

My hubby and I the last two cruises opted to do pre-pay as we had my time dining (Royal Caribbean) and it was easier to pay ahead of time so we didn't even have to think about it or worry about having enough cash on us for individual envelopes. I just booked a cruise for him and our two boys on Carnival this week for a 5-day cruise in November. We saw Carnival had an option to also pre-pay, and hubby wanted to take it. Easier on him again. But that is his personal preference and he took the option because Carnival allows it. Previous cruises I paid tips in cash, to those I actually received service from. Again, it was my choice because the cruise line gave me the option to do so.

[pat55]

So here's the issue for me

I have worked ( when I was younger) as a server and bar tender . I know the importance of giving good service and getting tips in return. I also found out very quickly that different places were better to work for than others .

Some establishments provided an an opportunity to make good money , some didn't .

I always do the auto tip ,always . I also think that they should have a special line with a giant blinking sign for tip removal.

I am friendly with a retired maître D who worked the inspiration for many years

He has told me there are routes / ships/ that are better to work than others . Nothing surprising here

He has also told me that some were so bad that ccl had to take action. ( like cruise to nowhere)

I do think carnival is a least culpable and at worst a enabler

They know there is a certain amount of people who are going to remove but they let it happen and they let others pay , no they count on others to pay

I am now rethinking if I should continue my auto pay. I don't like being made a fool of While the company continues to enable that atmosphere.

If everyone stopped tipping. Carnival would have to take action

If great didn't take action they couldn't staff the ships

 

Now I know there are some who will freak out , with those poor poor workers , their family ect ect.

I'm sure there are some who do believe that but Also some false indignation as they are the ones who remove tips and look to keep taking advantage

Just like the well known poster here with all the sailings and always pays cash. Sureeeeee

Perhaps it's time to rethink

[cj_one2000]

So here's the issue for me

I have worked ( when I was younger) as a server and bar tender . I know the importance of giving good service and getting tips in return. I also found out very quickly that different places were better to work for than others .

Some establishments provided an an opportunity to make good money , some didn't .

I always do the auto tip ,always . I also think that they should have a special line with a giant blinking sign for tip removal.

I am friendly with a retired maître D who worked the inspiration for many years

He has told me there are routes / ships/ that are better to work than others . Nothing surprising here

He has also told me that some were so bad that ccl had to take action. ( like cruise to nowhere)

I do think carnival is a least culpable and at worst a enabler

They know there is a certain amount of people who are going to remove but they let it happen and they let others pay , no they count on others to pay

I am now rethinking if I should continue my auto pay. I don't like being made a fool of While the company continues to enable that atmosphere.

If everyone stopped tipping. Carnival would have to take action

If great didn't take action they couldn't staff the ships

 

Now I know there are some who will freak out , with those poor poor workers , their family ect ect.

I'm sure there are some who do believe that but Also some false indignation as they are the ones who remove tips and look to keep taking advantage

Just like the well known poster here with all the sailings and always pays cash. Sureeeeee

Perhaps it's time to rethink

 

I have to disagree with your logic. The current system must be working right enough if Carnival is able to keep people employed on their ships. Crew must be making a decent amount of money to want to keep working for the cruise line. Making a passenger stand in line with a blinking sign for wanting to remove or reduce their auto tip? To shame someone for removing their auto tip is not the answer to this issue. Like I said in my previous post, you can't tell if the person removed them because they'd rather tip in cash or not. People are still tipping, you may just not see it as some people go the cash route and hand their gratuities straight in the hands of those staff that provided them service.

 

Carnival and other cruise lines see the tipping situation as this:

 

Some people don't tip at all

Some people tip a little

Some people tip average or suggested amount

Some people tip generously over the suggested amount

 

When you pool all the money being tipped over a monthly basis to the staff from three of these four groups of passengers, it means that they are getting tipped regardless. Unless the cruise line changes their policy to directly instruct passengers that they must tip either required pre-pay or added to your sail account, you can't force people to tip the way YOU want them to. Now if you feel cheated through auto pay that's on you, and honestly a silly reason not to tip because others aren't? Life isn't fair and there are always going to be people who do things differently than you.

 

If it makes you feel good to tip, do it.

Edited October 20, 2013 by cj_one2000

[jimbo5544]

Here is my take on it.

 

I dislike being automatically charged for a set gratuity "for my convenience". I'd rather have it as an option. In fact, I dislike it so much that I'm always tempted to have them all removed in protest.

 

That being said, my protest would cost people what has become their (meagre) wages. So I leave them on and tip (in cash) a bit extra for outstanding service.

 

I really wish the cruise lines would do away with the whole gratuity thing and add it to our cruise fares. We can then tip for good service. But I'm also still waiting for pigs to fly.

 

Anyway, that's my take. You may have a different one.

 

If it bothers you so much, think of it as included (which is what you want to do) and prepay them. Agree with your analysis of what your protest would do. Think you are doing the right thing of leaving on and tipping extra for outstanding service. They are still trying to make those pis that fly, not successful as of yet....:-)

[Retiringworkingstiff]

Unfortunately, some do not realize these are not traditional tips as we understand it in the US.

 

Cruise lines use the word gratuity and handle it this way in compliance US labor tax laws..but make no mistake, this is not a tip. It is their salary.

 

Personally I wish they would call it what it really is...a service surcharge.

 

NCL has already changed their verbiage to Service Surcharge .....

 

IF Carnival included it in their price, then there would be tax implications ....which we the customer would ultimately pay in higher cruise prices.

 

As long as people want the privilege of cruising, then they should follow the protocol. Cabin stewards and wait staff should not have to work for free....because someone does not like the way cruise lines handle their salary.

I just don't see much tax implications detrimental to Carnival, if they decide to include the suggested auto tip amounts (add on to) to existing fares.

 

I am an accountant in Canada so not 100% on US tax rules, but generally speaking that's how things (including the USA) would work:

 

(1) Auto tips (not ifs or buts) part of the fare. Before $600, now let's say it becomes $700 with the auto tip add on. Additional revenue to be reported = $100.

 

(2) Pay out the $100 to the workers on the ship. Additional expense to be reported = $100.

 

Not rocket science ... the additional revenue offsets the additional expense. Bottom line betterment to Carnival = Hole in a donut! Shouldn't be any additional tax Carnival has to pay.

 

Am I missing something?

[jimbo5544]

Pfff, Until YOU start to pay for my vacation tab there is nothing to rationalize. Carnival says my tip is optional/suggested, at my discretion, so what I do is between ME and my conscience. Please take you concerns to Carnival, the company that has clearly failed to do right by the employees by not including it in the fare, if it's expect to be paid. Now, watch the TRUE cheapers scream when the rates go up, to take care of those they claim to have pity on. Please excuse my post if you thought for one second that I would waste my time to rationalize a decision based clearly on a company failure. If you find it necessary to judge others based on the fact Carnival failed to do what's in the best interest of the employees, go ahead bro!

 

Aside, I READ the OP post which was addressing prepay gratuity. Most may leave the auto tip but do not prepay it. Common sense would suggest telling a family of 4, sharing a coffin, to tip $350 optional is leading people into temptation they can get to all by themselves. The coffins for 4 is usually more expensive than those for 2.

 

Lol, sounds like more rationalization to me.... But I get your point. You are in control...true enough. I did not say you were cheap. My comment was that what you were/are saying is what all people who skip out on paying tips (regardless of what is owed or earned or saying they want to hand over the cash or the other "300 reasons" they have are for the most part when you get to the bottom being cheap. Read through the (probably 5,000) threads on tipping objectively, I think you will come to the same conclusion.

 

I disagree about it being a company failure. They set a standard of how a tipping structure is set up. Like most other cruiselines have done (granted two have made I mandatory on some cruises). People can either follow it of not, it is a suggestion. How you or I comment on it or think about it does not make it either a failure or a success. Trust me, if they made it part of the fare, the cheapskates would be screaming so loud it would consume site.

[jimbo5544]

I just don't see much tax implications detrimental to Carnival, if they decide to include the suggested auto tip amounts (add on to) to existing fares.

 

I am an accountant in Canada so not 100% on US tax rules, but generally speaking that's how things (including the USA) would work:

 

(1) Auto tips (not ifs or buts) part of the fare. Before $600, now let's say it becomes $700 with the auto tip add on. Additional revenue to be reported = $100.

 

(2) Pay out the $100 to the workers on the ship. Additional expense to be reported = $100.

 

Not rocket science ... the additional revenue offsets the additional expense. Bottom line betterment to Carnival = Hole in a donut! Shouldn't be any additional tax Carnival has to pay.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Way above me on this one.

[Retiringworkingstiff]

Way above me on this one.

Don't want to sound technical but deep down I somehow feels you have the stuff to understand what I said. You are just too humble.

 

Example in human terms:

 

Say you set up a cleaning business ...

 

You lucked out, got your first client, you agreed to provide cleaning service to the client for $100.

 

Like me, you are one lazy bum (just kidding). You don't doing any of the cleaning yourself, rather you get your employees to do the work. You have to pay out $100 salaries to your employees.

 

You broke even.

 

What's your profit? If my calculator still works properly, it's zero.

 

How much tax do you have to pay on zero profit, my guess is nothing, at least that's the case for Canada and USA.

[cruisinfanatic]

Depending on how the line flows, you can hear what people say at the desk.

with all the noise around, you cannot hear what others are doing at the desk. At least not without being SUPER nosy

[LargeCornGyro]

with all the noise around, you cannot hear what others are doing at the desk. At least not without being SUPER nosy

 

When I'm in the atrium, I can't hear what the person NEXT to me is saying. Nor listening to others conversations.

[Blk_Amish]

Lol, sounds like more rationalization to me.... But I get your point. You are in control...true enough. I did not say you were cheap. My comment was that what you were/are saying is what all people who skip out on paying tips (regardless of what is owed or earned or saying they want to hand over the cash or the other "300 reasons" they have are for the most part when you get to the bottom being cheap. Read through the (probably 5,000) threads on tipping objectively, I think you will come to the same conclusion.

 

I disagree about it being a company failure. They set a standard of how a tipping structure is set up. Like most other cruiselines have done (granted two have made I mandatory on some cruises). People can either follow it of not, it is a suggestion. How you or I comment on it or think about it does not make it either a failure or a success. Trust me, if they made it part of the fare, the cheapskates would be screaming so loud it would consume site.

 

I cruise Carnival, I am cheap. It's a question of where I go from there, 2 to cheaper, or 3 to cheapest. If this is someone's bread and butter you can't leave it to others discretion to pay it, that borderline immoral in my book. The wage of the employees should be the employers responsibility. If you know people are cheap the cruise line practice is complete rubbish for trusting it to them. Where is the care, maybe they know something we don't.

 

I don't always cruise because with 4 plus flight it's not always valuable. I don't go to the airlines forum and say, if not for the overpriced flight I could go on vacation. I would like the baggage fee to be optional but heck, I have to pay before boarding. So, I simply look at another ways to vacation. This year we did 12 days in Hawaii (CHEAPER than crusing there), 2 weeks in Jamaica (solo:D), 1 week in Washington DC but just one cruise. All the others we were sharing a room so no per person change, no per person tip. Thank God this year is almost over because I am tired from vacationing:D

 

DON'T LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION OR CHEAPCATION, I CAN GET THERE ALL BY MYSELF

Edited October 20, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[luddite]

obvious reason. CHEAP

 

This.

Plus, they have too much time available in their small lives so they like to waste it in that line.

[Blk_Amish]

This.

Plus, they have too much time available in their small lives so they like to waste it in that line.

 

Huh? I have never heard one's life being described as small before, short maybe! How big does life gets for some?

Edited October 20, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[spazilla1]

My Dh and I are very new to cruising, only 2 cruises under our feet, so when we initially signed up we pre paid the gratuity as a way of making sure we did not overlook anybody (we know to tip the waiters from the bar separately of course) and to help us keep track of total amount we spent separate from the S&S card.

 

:eek: It just made it easier for us, and we would never have cancelled that - how rude it would be!! these people are working for a living - you expect them to do a lot for you at a minimum amount of money - of course you tip!! and if you pre paid like we do you do not cancel it!! if you have to cancel that small amount - you should not be sailing in the first place - we only go on 1 cruise a year do to finances and we would never cancel the tips!!

[jimbo5544]

I cruise Carnival, I am cheap. It's a question of where I go from there, 2 to cheaper, or 3 to cheapest. If this is someone's bread and butter you can't leave it to others discretion to pay it, that borderline immoral in my book. The wage of the employees should be the employers responsibility. If you know people are cheap the cruise line practice is complete rubbish for trusting it to them. Where is the care, maybe they know something we don't.

 

I don't always cruise because with 4 plus flight it's not always valuable. I don't go to the airlines forum and say, if not for the overpriced flight I could go on vacation. I would like the baggage fee to be optional but heck, I have to pay before boarding. So, I simply look at another ways to vacation. This year we did 12 days in Hawaii (CHEAPER than crusing there), 2 weeks in Jamaica (solo:D), 1 week in Washington DC but just one cruise. All the others we were sharing a room so no per person change, no per person tip. Thank God this year is almost over because I am tired from vacationing:D

 

DON'T LEAD ME INTO TEMPTATION OR CHEAPCATION, I CAN GET THERE ALL BY MYSELF

 

Lol temptation ( or cheapcation as you describe it .... love it) the root of all evil.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app from my IPhone

[jimbo5544]

My Dh and I are very new to cruising, only 2 cruises under our feet, so when we initially signed up we pre paid the gratuity as a way of making sure we did not overlook anybody (we know to tip the waiters from the bar separately of course) and to help us keep track of total amount we spent separate from the S&S card.

 

:eek: It just made it easier for us, and we would never have cancelled that - how rude it would be!! these people are working for a living - you expect them to do a lot for you at a minimum amount of money - of course you tip!! and if you pre paid like we do you do not cancel it!! if you have to cancel that small amount - you should not be sailing in the first place - we only go on 1 cruise a year do to finances and we would never cancel the tips!!

 

Nice post. You are in the majority but sadly others have a different viewpoint

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app from my IPhone

[Retiringworkingstiff]

Over several threads on the topic of Auto Tips ...

 

How about doing this Carnival:

 

- add the daily tips on to the fare, that portion cannot be disputed but ...

- any passenger who is incline to reallocate the total daily tips amount will be allowed to do so. Daily total remains the same but percentages among different staff one can reallocate to his or her heart's content. Have forms available in various parts of the ship (don't even have to bother Guest Service).

 

I wonder what percentage of their existing clients Carnival would stop cruising with them if they implement such a policy. Seems to me by reading these forums (including those of other cruise lines), most people who remove auto tips claim they actually ended up paying at least the daily amount suggested by Carnival (in aggregate $$$s) but they prefer to pay more to certain individuals and less to others. I'll take their word for it and Carnival shouldn't be losing that much. 1%?

[LargeCornGyro]

Over several threads on the topic of Auto Tips ...

 

How about doing this Carnival:

 

- add the daily tips on to the fare, that portion cannot be disputed but ...

- any passenger who is incline to reallocate the total daily tips amount will be allowed to do so. Daily total remains the same but percentages among different staff one can reallocate to his or her heart's content. Have forms available in various parts of the ship (don't even have to bother Guest Service).

 

I wonder what percentage of their existing clients Carnival would stop cruising with them if they implement such a policy. Seems to me by reading these forums (including those of other cruise lines), most people who remove auto tips claim they actually ended up paying at least the daily amount suggested by Carnival (in aggregate $$$s) but they prefer to pay more to certain individuals and less to others. I'll take their word for it and Carnival shouldn't be losing that much. 1%?

 

The part you're missing is then Carnival (or whomever) has to state that this is their fare. $299 is suddenly $384.50

[Blk_Amish]

Add the tip to the fare or keep auto-tipping. For it to be refunded you must make the request online no earlier than 7 days after the cruise. You must provide the reason for your request, how the service did not meet your expectation, and how to improve it. This is going to require some work and we know cheap best buddy is called lazy.

 

I honestly hate the fact that the first time I see a cruise rate it doesn't include port fees and taxes. I saw a 'cheap' cruise yesterday that got me excited. What started out at $199 for per person (3 nights) ended up being close to $600 for both of us in the end.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[@homeinok]

The thing I believe that has not been said is that if you pre-pay tips when you book or before you board you can not change your tips in anyway or cancel them period!!! I don't pre-pay anymore after we had a roomsteward that was not up to par but had a great waiter tried to switch so the waiter got more. THey would not let us move money from 1 category to another.

[storm78]

If carnival was actually concerned with this why wouldn't they offer prepaid gratuities instaid of obc? Or gratuities taken off of any obc balance first?

[Tithonus]

The thing I believe that has not been said is that if you pre-pay tips when you book or before you board you can not change your tips in anyway or cancel them period!!! I don't pre-pay anymore after we had a roomsteward that was not up to par but had a great waiter tried to switch so the waiter got more. THey would not let us move money from 1 category to another.

 

This is not true. If you pre pay, you can certainly adjust.

[Ams1201]

Okay so I am brand new to cruising and am planning our first one for January. My husband 3 kids and myself are in one room. I prepaid our tips (not knowing any different). So now my cruise is paid in full how do people cancel tips? They can't hand you back x amount back in cash or credit you back can they?

I think the option shouldn't even be there. Tipping shouldn't be an option!!

 

 

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