Wifi Range Extender for Cabin

[kiwijohn]

Has anybody tried a wifi range extender in a cabin to get strong wifi coverage inside a cabin?? I have one at home which plugs into a power socket and extends the wifi coverage in the house from the router. It works very well and they are very cheap and very small. I note many posts complaining of the weak signal inside the cabin and having to leave the cabin door open.

[Padraic]

The wifi range extender must be able to access the ship's signal. If you cannot get a signal in your cabin, neither can a range extender.

[jtl513]

The wifi range extender must be able to access the ship's signal. If you cannot get a signal in your cabin, neither can a range extender.

True, but possibly a weak signal can be amplified enough to be more dependable.

 

On our last cruise (on the Prinsendam) we got a good signal in our cabin far from a hallway antenna. I suspect (but don't know for sure) that the 802.11g routers are gradually being replaced by 802.11n which have a better range. If that's the case, before long a range extender may not be needed anyway.

[innlady1]

I suspect John is correct. The range in recent years has been much better in the cabins. We were on the stern of the NA recently and had a very strong signal in our cabin.

[taxmantoo]

The range is definitely getting better all the time. On our last Noordam cruise in March (Caribbean) we had excellent reception. I have no idea where the transmitter was (I did not look for it) but our in-cabin reception was great. We were able to use both laptop and iPad in the room, the bathroom and even the balcony. We even used iPad FaceTime while at sea with no noticeable difference than when we use at home. We also used the iPad in many areas of the ship with the same results.

Edited November 4, 2013 by taxmantoo

[0bnxshs]

True, but possibly a weak signal can be amplified enough to be more dependable.

 

<SNIP>

Just using John's note above as a starting point, furthering Padraic's point, but this is for the OP:

 

If the signal is weak to your wireless device from the ship's wireless access point, so will the signal to the extender. You may only increase signal strength between the PC (or whatever wireless device you are using) and the extender. The signal between the extender and the ship's wireless access point will be the same weak signal and it won't do anything to boost your overall connectivity or throughput. Remember, an extender is just that, an extender, not a signal booster. It's like "extending" your electrical system by using a "extention" cord. Also, an extender (repeater) will actually decrease your throughput by something like 50% unless you are using a dual band extender and even those will decrease throughput. Then too, you may have others jumping on the connection your extender is offering to further slow down throughput unless it and you are able to limit connections using a MAC table (or can choose not to broadcast the SSID).

 

It might be a fun or frustrating experience overall. If you do try it, let us know how it works for you.

Edited November 4, 2013 by 0bnxshs

[SeaBands]

from land when docked? That way you wouldn't have to lug your computer off the ship.

[0bnxshs]

from land when docked? That way you wouldn't have to lug your computer off the ship.

 

Think of a range extender as an electrical extension cord. If your computer doesn't see a land-based WiFi network neither will the extender. To work most effectively, the extender should be placed halfway between the wireless access point and your device.

 

Now, say you are docked and your cabin is not on the "dock side" of the ship. If you had access to a cabin that was and if there was a usable signal from a land-based access point in that cabin, you might be able to do this. Most of us don't have access to cabins beyond our own though, so while this is possible it's probably not practicable.

Edited November 4, 2013 by 0bnxshs

[jtl513]

Remember, an extender is just that, an extender, not a signal booster.

It has to be boosting to do anything. Let's say the signal strength at the router is a "9" and it attenuates to a "1" at the extender. If the extender simply input that "1" and output a "1" nothing is accomplished. The strength is still "1" ... or maybe "2" since there are two "1" sources ... and little or no extension takes place. Maybe the extender doesn't boost it to a "9" again, but it has to put out a stronger signal than it receives. Edited November 4, 2013 by jtl513

[Fouremco]

It has to be boosting to do anything. Let's say the signal strength at the router is a "9" and it attenuates to a "1" at the extender. If the extender simply input that "1" and output a "1" nothing is accomplished. The strength is still "1" ... or maybe "2" since there are two "1" sources ... and little or no extension takes place.

 

No?

If your extender is at the very limit of the router's range and the signal strength has attenuated to a "1" as you suggest, repeating that "1" signal a short additional distance to your device can make the difference between you receiving a weak signal or none whatsoever. Within a residential environment, there are many better solutions to eliminate dead spots and/or extend the range. Unfortunately, these aren't applicable to passengers on a cruise ship.

 

[jtl513]

It has to be boosting to do anything. Let's say the signal strength at the router is a "9" and it attenuates to a "1" at the extender. If the extender simply input that "1" and output a "1" nothing is accomplished. The strength is still "1" ... or maybe "2" since there are two "1" sources ... and little or no extension takes place. Maybe the extender doesn't boost it to a "9" again, but it has to put out a stronger signal than it receives.

 

A common extension cord is not the same at all. It truly doesn't boost voltage. If a 1000' cord drops the voltage from 110 to 109, then another 1000' will drop it to 108. That small decrease doesn't matter (usually) to the device you're using. Air transmission is different.

[0bnxshs]

It has to be boosting to do anything. Let's say the signal strength at the router is a "9" and it attenuates to a "1" at the extender. If the extender simply input that "1" and output a "1" nothing is accomplished. The strength is still "1" ... or maybe "2" since there are two "1" sources ... and little or no extension takes place. Maybe the extender doesn't boost it to a "9" again, but it has to put out a stronger signal than it receives.

 

No sir, in the long run, it is boosting nothing but range. If you have a signal strength of 1 between the access point and the extender, you have a poor signal, period. The signal between your device and the extender could be a 9, but with the signal between the access point and the extender at 1, you get an overall signal strength of 1. That is why extenders should always be placed halfway between the access point and the end device, so the signal between the access point and extender is something better than 1 and throughput can be maintained at a reasonable, but always reduced, rate.

 

There is custom firmware than can be loaded on a few extenders that will enable the user to boost the wattage of the signal, thereby "boosting" the signal, but out of the box this can't be done.

 

Fouremco is right about other and better ways to "boost" signal and range, but they aren't germain here. My analogy to an extension cord stands as the extender only extends, or "boosts", the range of a signal, not signal strength, as it works as a signal repeater.

Edited November 4, 2013 by 0bnxshs

[donaldsc]

One thought however. You can stuff a lot more electronics in a range extender that you can in your computer. Also, it is possible that the electronics may be more sophisticated. Therefore, it is possible that a signal that may appear to have a power level of 1 to your computer may appear to have a power level of 3 or 4 to a really good range extender.

 

The only way to really find out is to bring one on a cruise and try it out.

 

DON

Edited November 4, 2013 by donaldsc

[0bnxshs]

One thought however. You can stuff a lot more electronics in a range extender that you can in your computer. Also, it is possible that the electronics may be more sophisticated. Therefore, it is possible that a signal that may appear to have a power level of 1 to your computer may appear to have a power level of 3 or 4 to a really good range extender.

 

The only way to really find out is to bring one on a cruise and try it out.

 

DON

 

I completely agree with your final sentence. However, unless you are paying lots of money for an extender, most of them are quite cheaply made. While newer specifications (801.11ac or 801.11n versus 801.11g) are designed to have longer ranges to begin with, you would need an extender that uses the newer speciifications to take advantage of that. If you use an older 801.11g spec device, you're stuck with that. Another way to improve throughput is to use a dual channel extender (one that operates on 5gHz and 2.4gHz) so there may be less RFI and quicker handoffs by the extender. As I said, there are a few extenders that allow you to load custom, third party firmware to access signal wattage levels and boost those, but otherwise out of the box extenders are using the same equipment as your laptop.

[jtl513]

No sir, in the long run, it is boosting nothing but range.

No. Range means how much strength is left after a given distance. If you don't add strength at the "extender" you don't add distance.

 

Let's say a signal drops in strength from 10 to 1 between point A and point B and the attenuation is linear. If you place an extender halfway between point A and point B it receives a 4.5. If it doesn't add strength it sends out another 4.5. At point B both the original signal and the duplicate out of the repeater are both down to 1, for a total of 2, and your range is extended only slightly past point B.

 

If your extender doesn't add strength, it doesn't really matter where you put it, you're always going to end up with a total of 2 at point B, and an insignificant range boost.

 

Anyway, none of this matters to the OP's original question, and this discussion doesn't belong here. The answer to his question is NO, using a range extender in the cabin won't help very much. At least we agree on that!

 

Have a nice day! :):)

Edited November 4, 2013 by jtl513

[0bnxshs]

No. Range means how much strength is left after a given distance. If you don't add strength at the "extender" you don't add distance.

 

Let's say a signal drops in strength from 10 to 1 between point A and point B and the attenuation is linear. If you place an extender halfway between point A and point B it receives a 4.5. If it doesn't add strength it sends out another 4.5. At point B both the original signal and the duplicate out of the repeater are both down to 1, for a total of 2, and your range is extended only slightly past point B.

 

If your extender doesn't add strength, it doesn't really matter where you put it, you're always going to end up with a total of 2 at point B, and an insignificant range boost.

 

Anyway, none of this matters to the OP's original question, and this discussion doesn't belong here. The answer to his question is NO, using a range extender in the cabin won't help very much. At least we agree on that!

 

Have a nice day! :):)

 

John, I am having a great day, as I sincerely hope you are, and I am enjoying the technical discussion with you and others. :) We do certainly agree on how helpful (or not helpful) an extender would be, if not on the practical matter of how they work.

 

Thanks for taking the time to banter with me. It's all in good natured fun. I think you speak engineer and I speak technician in this case, and we actually do come to the same conclusion. End result is agreement! :D

[Fouremco]

Another perspective on extender location: placing the repeater closer to the router will provide higher bandwidth for the repeater to retransmit. But the longer distance from the repeater will reduce the signal received at the target area and also the resulting throughput. Conversely, placing the repeater closer to the target area will provide a stronger signal there, but at the expense of even less received throughput to be repeated.

 

I'll leave it to the technician and the engineer to decide on final placement. :D

 

[jtl513]

I think you speak engineer ...

Yup, I'm BSEE in 1963, when integrated circuits were the hot new topic and ARPANET was years in the future. :D

[Padraic]

Yup, I'm BSEE in 1963, when integrated circuits were the hot new topic and ARPANET was years in the future. :D

 

But not that to far in the future . . . only six years.;)

Edited November 4, 2013 by Padraic

[Typhoon1]

Given my limited knowledge of the ships Wi Fi, I would guess it is probably useless on a ship.

 

Nothing is more important than cabin location.

[Pobman]

If the range extender is more sensitive, ie has better aerials for instance, to signals than the devices you are using then it may well receive signals that they don't. I see this all the time, an iPhone 3GS/4 can get solid wifi at one end of our house with a 4S drops in and out all the time. On our last cruise we used an Android phone as a repeater because it was able to get a strong signal while nothing else other than a laptop could.

 

Normally a range extender goes in somewhere at a midpoint where there is a stronger signal and transmits from there, which clearly would not be an option in this case.

 

As mentioned many range extenders are cheap, and a little nasty... and as such often have poor sensitivity (ie no better than your other devices and as such would not help at all). There are decent ones on the market though which could easily be better...

 

In all honest I don't think its something worth bothering with unless you either already have one to test or are technically inclined to configure existing phones/tablets/laptops to do it for you.

 

I also don't know if there is anything deep down in the T&C that says you cant do this sort of thing?