C'est VISTA!

[jimbo5544]

I am aware of the differences between Pinnacle Project and Mille. I follow the cruise industry very closely, not just Carnival. I just wrote Pinnacle instead of Mille in my original post in error. My mistake on that one.

 

I also don't feel I'm "ripping" apart the ship. If anything I'm criticizing the rendering as we don't even know if this will be the actual ship or not. If it is, then I will likely be disappointed as it appears to be a rehashed design of the current Destiny/Conquest/Splendor/Dream Class. I don't make any apologies for wanting Carnival to come up with something COMPLETELY new, a prototype, and not a rehashed design predating 1995. We have seen brand new prototype designs recently from Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, MSC, NCL, Princess, etc. Carnival likes to call the Dream Class new, but it really isn't. It's the same basic design of the original DESTINY but with more decks of cabins and of course some pretty major tweaks to the original design. I'm really over this basic design and I never thought it was great even when brand new.

 

What would make me happy is something truly original and innovative from Carnival. This is the way Carnival used to be. The industry waiting in anticipation as to just what they would do next. Those days are over and I don't think anyone in the industry views Carnival as innovative anymore. Now prices seems to be the only driving factor that makes Carnival so popular, and don't get me wrong they do offer a great product for the price. It's just that they play it safe compared to the competition using existing designs while other mass-market lines have surpassed them in design, technology, and innovation. I would truly love to see Carnival do something daring again … take a risk or two. I've been sailing on Carnival since the late 70's and for the most part I've outgrown them, but I still like to try all the new designs so I'm sure I'll be booking CARNIVAL VISTA when she makes her debut, and I truly hope she will be something special.

 

I'll be waiting with anticipation for more details!

I am waiting right along with you. I don't know if it will be Mille or not, but Mega liners are not where they are going (thank the Lord). Oasis and Allure are truly innovative but having sailed Oasis, I really don't want Carnival to go there. Bigger is not always better. When we sailed Oasis in March I had high expectations, but was somewhat disappointed (read my review for more details).

 

If QOTS IMHO is where innovation is heading, then I will be sailing on older ships. We enjoy MDR experience and don't need a six flags experience when cruising. I don't want to see b rated musicals (if I did I would go to Broadway and see the real deal). I don't want wrist bands that track every place I go and disguise that as enabling me to get on and off the ship faster.

 

Every cruise line, including royal has for the most part has new class of ships follow existing ones but larger. NCL, Royal, Princess, etc. They all followed the same molds. True, Oasis, Epic and their follow ons are different but Carnival has been on new ship hiatus as these were built (for many reasons). Whether the Vista is Mille or not, let's see what she has then discuss the merits. Lastly, Carnival has always been the value proposition in cruising and hopefully always will be. We will see what QOTS demands once the hype settles down (assuming we have a ship to compare it to once she departs for the far east). Anthem is supposedly staying, we will see.

Edited October 16, 2014 by jimbo5544

[eroller]

I am waiting right along with you. I don't know if it will be Mille or not, but Mega liners are not where they are going (thank the Lord). Oasis and Allure are truly innovative but having sailed Oasis, I really don't want Carnival to go there. Bigger is not always better. When we sailed Oasis in March I had high expectations, but was somewhat disappointed (read my review for more details).

 

If QOTS IMHO is where innovation is heading, then I will be sailing on older ships. We enjoy MDR experience and don't need a six flags experience when cruising. I don't want to see b rated musicals (if I did I would go to Broadway and see the real deal). I don't want wrist bands that track every place I go and disguise that as enabling me to get on and off the ship faster.

 

Every cruise line, including royal has for the most part has new class of ships follow existing ones but larger. NCL, Royal, Princess, etc. They all followed the same molds. True, Oasis, Epic and their follow ons are different but Carnival has been on new ship hiatus as these were built (for many reasons). Whether the Vista is Mille or not, let's see what she has then discuss the merits. Lastly, Carnival has always been the value proposition in cruising and hopefully always will be. We will see what QOTS demands once the hype settles down (assuming we have a ship to compare it to once she departs for the far east). Anthem is supposedly staying, we will see.

 

 

 

I agree I don't want every new build from every cruise line to be a colossal OASIS OF THE SEAS type ship. This being said, it's not so much about size but how well the ship is designed. This is something that Royal Caribbean are superb at and OASIS and ALLURE felt far less crowded than CARNIVAL BREEZE to me even though they are substantially larger. The Oasis Class is a masterpiece of shipbuilding and design on so many levels, and it goes well beyond the capacity which is what people that haven't sailed on them like to focus on.

 

I also agree that most cruise lines build upon the successes of their current hardware when developing a new ship design, but most (NCL, Royal, Celebrity, MSC, Princess) eventually start fresh with a brand new ship design and incorporate new and past successful features into the design. For instance with Royal Caribbean, there has been the Voyager, Radiance, Oasis, and Quantam Class. Each is a from scratch design but they carry over certain elements from previous classes. I don't consider them "retreads" like Carnival's Destiny/Conquest/Splendor/Dream Class. In the case of Carnival, the designs are not from scratch, but enlargements of the Destiny but under the same basic platform. Mind you it's cheap to do this which is probably why Carnival does it, and no doubt it keeps costs down. This being said, Carnival is overdue for something completely new and different. It would be great to see a brand new, from scratch design that can successfully incorporate all the new Carnival features plus ones we don't even know about yet. I think as the flagship brand of Carnival Corp. it's important the bar is raised. Carnival is not the darling of the industry anymore and this is evident with their stock price over the past year.

 

I also fully understand the value proposition but I don't consider something a value just because it's cheap. I don't wan't to see Carnival become a commodity where people book it based on price alone, but this seems to already be happening. Value comes from more than just the bottom line price. After my cruise on CARNIVAL BREEZE I felt the value proposition of Carnival had been lost on me. I just saw too many cutbacks and the ship was beyond crowded. I've since sailed on a short cruise on CARNIVAL FREEDOM and I was beyond impressed. In many ways it was reminiscent of the Carnival I remember and loved. The value was definitely there!

 

In closing I do wish the best for Carnival. My criticism is only because I want them to truly be successful and competitive out there. I sail on all the competition and I can tell you the competition is pretty awesome on amazing ships at price points not that much higher than Carnival. They are raising the bar on the mass-market cruise industry.

 

Like you I will be awaiting details of CARNIVAL VISTA and I will say I will also analyze those details and form opinions. This is no different than I have done for new builds of other cruise lines. I hope Carnival gets it right!

 

ps - I'm booked on the maiden voyage of QUANTUM OF THE SEAS. I'll let you know my thoughts. So far the ship looks pretty awesome but certainly not perfect.

[jimbo5544]

I agree I don't want every new build from every cruise line to be a colossal OASIS OF THE SEAS type ship. This being said, it's not so much about size but how well the ship is designed. This is something that Royal Caribbean are superb at and OASIS and ALLURE felt far less crowded than CARNIVAL BREEZE to me even though they are substantially larger. The Oasis Class is a masterpiece of shipbuilding and design on so many levels, and it goes well beyond the capacity which is what people that haven't sailed on them like to focus on.

 

 

 

I also agree that most cruise lines build upon the successes of their current hardware when developing a new ship design, but most (NCL, Royal, Celebrity, MSC, Princess) eventually start fresh with a brand new ship design and incorporate new and past successful features into the design. For instance with Royal Caribbean, there has been the Voyager, Radiance, Oasis, and Quantam Class. Each is a from scratch design but they carry over certain elements from previous classes. I don't consider them "retreads" like Carnival's Destiny/Conquest/Splendor/Dream Class. In the case of Carnival, the designs are not from scratch, but enlargements of the Destiny but under the same basic platform. Mind you it's cheap to do this which is probably why Carnival does it, and no doubt it keeps costs down. This being said, Carnival is overdue for something completely new and different. It would be great to see a brand new, from scratch design that can successfully incorporate all the new Carnival features plus ones we don't even know about yet. I think as the flagship brand of Carnival Corp. it's important the bar is raised. Carnival is not the darling of the industry anymore and this is evident with their stock price over the past year.

 

 

 

I also fully understand the value proposition but I don't consider something a value just because it's cheap. I don't wan't to see Carnival become a commodity where people book it based on price alone, but this seems to already be happening. Value comes from more than just the bottom line price. After my cruise on CARNIVAL BREEZE I felt the value proposition of Carnival had been lost on me. I just saw too many cutbacks and the ship was beyond crowded. I've since sailed on a short cruise on CARNIVAL FREEDOM and I was beyond impressed. In many ways it was reminiscent of the Carnival I remember and loved. The value was definitely there!

 

 

 

In closing I do wish the best for Carnival. My criticism is only because I want them to truly be successful and competitive out there. I sail on all the competition and I can tell you the competition is pretty awesome on amazing ships at price points not that much higher than Carnival. They are raising the bar on the mass-market cruise industry.

 

 

 

Like you I will be awaiting details of CARNIVAL VISTA and I will say I will also analyze those details and form opinions. This is no different than I have done for new builds of other cruise lines. I hope Carnival gets it right!

 

 

 

ps - I'm booked on the maiden voyage of QUANTUM OF THE SEAS. I'll let you know my thoughts. So far the ship looks pretty awesome but certainly not perfect.

 

 

Fair enough

 

 

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[andy.capitan]

Value is relative and based on perception which is subjective. As people "mature" their perceptions can change.