Heathrow to Gatwick

[silkismom]

We arrive at Heathrow on AA50 at 0915, we have to get to Gatwick for IB7579 (operated by BA) at 2pm. I have a reservation for National Express at 11:10am. Anyone see any problems there? I assume we'll have to get our checked bags, go thru customs etc. Do they have Global Entry there. Any details on how to do this at LHR? I'm a worrier!

[sddsddean]

Should be OK, unless there is a major problem on M25. Transatlantic flights normally get in early due to the jetstream, so hopefully 0915 is latest arrival. Yes, you will have to collect your luggage, take it to the NE coach (driver will load it) and pick it up off the driver at LGW and do all the lovely check in and security stuff again!

If you do arrive LHR early and can make an earlier coach, do it. You might get away with just getting the 'next' coach, but you might have to pay a £5 re booking fee. There are NE offices after the Arrivals Hall in all terminals.

 

Simon

[Bob++]

National Express say it takes about 1¼ hours, so you should have time to spare.

[Globaliser]

Do they have Global Entry there.

No: Global Entry is a US system.

Transatlantic flights normally get in early due to the jetstream ...

Do you have any data to support this?

 

The airport's operations are built around scheduled times of departure and arrival - particularly stand occupation times. If an entire class of flights was routinely early, there would be many early-arriving aircraft routinely waiting around for gates to come free before they could come onto stand. On a campus as congested at LHR's, that could quickly lead to gridlock because there are few places for aircraft to wait where they do not block the way of following aircraft. Indeed, there have been times when my aircraft has been waiting for a gate and has had to use some of the taxiways like a roundabout to allow following aircraft to proceed.

 

So I would be interested to know where this idea has come from, and whether there is any evidential support for the suggestion that this entire category of flights tends to arrive (as opposed to land) early.

[Corfe Mixture]

No: Global Entry is a US system.Do you have any data to support this?

 

The airport's operations are built around scheduled times of departure and arrival - particularly stand occupation times. If an entire class of flights was routinely early, there would be many early-arriving aircraft routinely waiting around for gates to come free before they could come onto stand. On a campus as congested at LHR's, that could quickly lead to gridlock because there are few places for aircraft to wait where they do not block the way of following aircraft. Indeed, there have been times when my aircraft has been waiting for a gate and has had to use some of the taxiways like a roundabout to allow following aircraft to proceed.

 

So I would be interested to know where this idea has come from, and whether there is any evidential support for the suggestion that this entire category of flights tends to arrive (as opposed to land) early.

 

My experience is that the airlines seem to adapt their timetables to take account of the probable changes in the jet stream location with the time of year.

 

Certainly my experience is that, on an eastbound crossing, you are more likely to land early rather than later in summer and land late rather than early in winter but the former has rarely translated into an particularly early arrival at the gate. Instead, the aircraft tends to come to a stop just short of the terminal area and we get an announcement that there will 'be a short delay, whilst we wait for a departing aircraft to vacate our allocated stand'.

 

Question for Globaliser: Why do they call it a gate when we are departing, but a stand when we arrive?

Edited October 19, 2014 by Corfe Mixture

[Icantthinkofone]

I agree , I think you will be fine as long as the M25 is clear ! This motorway is a nightmare, one accident causes mayhem , I take the A roads every time.

[sddsddean]

Do you have any data to support this?

 

 

No empirical data whatsoever...just 30 odd years of personal experience.

 

Simon

[silkismom]

Thank you all. I assume there will be signs for National Express once we go thru customs etc, any ideas how long that all takes?

[sddsddean]

Hopefully you should be through customs/immigration in 90 mins, but can be longer at peak periods. If you are coming into terminal 4 or 5 the NE bus stop is just outside the main doors with all the other bus stops (there ill be people to ask if you can't find it). If you are coming into T1,2,or 3 you will have to walk to the Heathrow Central Bus Station which is well signed and will take you about 10-15 mins.

 

Simon

[Globaliser]

Certainly my experience is that, on an eastbound crossing, you are more likely to land early rather than later in summer and land late rather than early in winter but the former has rarely translated into an particularly early arrival at the gate. Instead, the aircraft tends to come to a stop just short of the terminal area and we get an announcement that there will 'be a short delay, whilst we wait for a departing aircraft to vacate our allocated stand'.

No empirical data whatsoever...just 30 odd years of personal experience.

Out of interest, I thought I'd do a quick look at the last week on three routes on which multiple airlines fly: IAD-LHR, LAX-LHR and ORD-LHR. I know it's only one week, and so it can't claim to be a scientific analysis. But the spread of results is what I would have expected: some flights arrive early, some flights arrive (as close as makes no difference to being) bang on time, and some flights arrive late - either a routine delay of up to an hour, or a major delay. There doesn't seem to be any pattern of this category of flights routinely arriving early.

 

The times are scheduled time of arrival and actual time of arrival. In some cases, the arrival time has not been reported, but the database had landing time instead. The seven days are for departures on 12 to 18 October 2014 inclusive. I've excluded the day flights as being irrelevant to the original query.

 

IAD-LHR arrival times

 

UA918

0620 0613

0620 0626

0620 0629

0620 0638

0620 0634

0620 0605

0620 0656

 

BA216

0640 0654

0640 0636

0640 0637

0640 0637

0640 0638

0640 0618

0640 0629

 

VS22

0705 0658

0705 0700

0705 0711

0705 0659

0705 0649 (LANDED)

0705 0639

0705 0640

 

BA264

NON-OP

0855 0849

NON-OP

NON-OP

0900 0910

NON-OP

NON-OP

 

UA924

1015 1023

1015 1038

1015 1038

1015 1018

1015 1038

1015 1013

1015 1018

 

BA292

1050 1109

1050 1116

1050 1113

1050 1050

1050 1104

1050 1058

1050 1052

LAX-LHR arrival times

 

BA282

1000 1038

1000 1017

1000 1025

1005 1006

1005 1010

1000 1024

1005 1030

 

NZ2

1115 1121

1115 1058

1115 1132

1115 1114

1115 1256

1115 1124

1115 1117

 

VS8

1130 1139

1130 1137

1130 1122

1130 1122 (LANDED)

1130 1119

1130 1147

1130 1147

 

UA934

1215 1224

1215 1213

1215 1229

1215 1315

1215 1501

1215 1248

1215 1205

 

AA136

1420 1458

1420 1358

1420 1543

1420 1424

1420 1412

1420 1425

1420 1435

 

BA268

1600 1617

1600 1716

1600 1608

1600 1558

1600 1616

1600 1644

1600 1542

 

VS24

1635 1641

1635 1610

1635 1557

1635 1628

1635 1616

1635 1702

1635 1617

ORD-LHR arrival times

 

UA958

0555 0539

0555 0546

0555 0557

0555 0555

0555 0541

0555 0542

0555 0603

 

AA86

0650 1134

0650 0852

0650 0644

0650 0642

0650 0653

0650 0650

0650 0812

 

BA294

0750 0811

0750 0830

0750 0748

0750 0739

0750 0747

0750 0745

0750 0732

 

UA928

0835 0931

0835 0841

0835 1012

0835 0902

0835 0850

0835 0854

0835 0849

 

VS40

NON-OP

0845 0904

NON-OP

0845 0846

0845 0847

0845 0821

0830 0801 (LANDED)

 

AA46

0900 0934

0900 1158

0900 0852

0900 1300

0900 0939

0900 0903

0900 1204

 

BA296

0955 1100

0955 1059

0955 1022

0955 1000

0955 1026

0955 1010

0955 1018

 

UA938

1115 1202

1115 1106

1115 1120

1115 1146

1115 1154

1115 1226

1115 1111

 

AA98

1225 1238

1225 1230

1225 1230

1225 1226

1225 1219

1225 1229

1225 1212

(Apologies for any transcription errors.) Edited October 19, 2014 by Globaliser

[Globaliser]

Question for Globaliser: Why do they call it a gate when we are departing, but a stand when we arrive?

The stand is what the aircraft parks on. The gate is what passengers go through to get onto the aircraft (or into the terminal). And the number of a stand (not usually known to the passengers) is often different from the number of the gate that the passengers use.

[silkismom]

Not sure where you got your info--how about DFW-LHR?? Thanks.

[Globaliser]

Not sure where you got your info--how about DFW-LHR?

For speed, most of it came from ExpertFlyer but FlightStats is another source (with a long archive) for the same information.

 

For the same seven days, you see the same general spread of results:-

DFW-LHR arrival times

 

AA50

0805 0842

0805 0816

0805 1204

0805 0804

0805 0815

0805 0806

0805 0851

 

BA192

0935 0946

0935 0921

0935 0930

0935 0944

0935 0954

0935 0940

0935 0923

 

AA78

1115 1122

1115 1406

1115 1154

1115 1126

1115 1241

1115 1120

1115 1105

 

AA80

1315 1458

1315 1356

1315 1414

1315 1341

1315 1356

1310 1317

1315 1317

[silkismom]

Looks like my flt (AA50) was late every day--arggg. If it came in at 1204, I'd be in big trouble for my 2pm out of LGW. I'll try to watch it. Thanks

[Globaliser]

Looks like my flt (AA50) was late every day ...

No, only on three days out of 7. Remember that airline schedules are always plus / minus 15 minutes. A flight is not early unless it's more than 15 minutes ahead of schedule, and it's not late unless it's more than 15 minutes behind schedule.

If it came in at 1204, I'd be in big trouble for my 2pm out of LGW. I'll try to watch it.

A big delay like that (ie 4 hours) is going to wreck most connection plans. There's really nothing you can do about it; it's just one of the facts of travelling life. You deal with it when it happens.

 

Unless you're prepared to change your plans, there's absolutely no point watching what the flight does on other days between now and then. Watching it won't change things for you. You'll probably either make yourself feel better (in which case you'll have simply conned yourself into a false sense of security), or you'll make yourself worry endlessly (which is pure and pointless self-inflicted harm). Either way, you can't affect the chances that it'll go badly wrong on the day you're flying - that's just random, and it'll almost certainly happen with no advance warning if it does.