Flight Change has me very nervous - Advice Please

[MustBCruzn]

I'm on a cruise from Amsterdam to Rome in Sept and booked my air through Celebrity's Choice Air. Becasue I much prefer the 2-seat configuration on Delta/KLM and the fact that it's non-stop SEA - AMS, I wanted to return FCO-AMS-SEA. I was originally scheduled to depart FCO to AMS 9pm on Sept 14th, overnight in AMS and take the 10am AMS-SEA flight on the 15th. I've been notified that our flight has now been changed to 6:20 on the 15th, giving us only 70 minutes to make our AMS - SEA connection. This seems very risky to me, but both Delta and Choice Air say it's within thier allowable connection time, so I will be charged a change fee should I want to leave FCO sooner (there are lots of available flights--I just wanted an entire day in Rome). Before I begin my series of calls to (hopefully) insist on a no-cost change I thought I would solicit your opinion. Is this layover do-able? Thanks for your time and input.

Edited March 1, 2015 by MustBCruzn

[6rugrats]

I am confused. I read you were booked FCO-AMS on 14 Sept, overnight at AMS, Then on 15 Sept, you were booked AMS-SEA at 10:00 am?

 

But the schedule was changed so now your AMS-SEA flight on 15 Sept has been changed to 6:20 (am or pm?). I am not sure why this is a problem.

 

I can only tell you that if it meets minimum connection times, you usually will not get a free change.

Edited March 1, 2015 by 6rugrats

[FlyerTalker]

Let me see if I have this straight before getting into advice.

 

You were originally booked as follows:

 

9pm departure on the 14th, FCO-AMS

Overnight at AMS

10am departure on the 15th, AMS-SEA

 

Now, you are saying that your tickets have been changed to:

 

6:20am departure on the 15th, FCO-AMS

Same day connection at AMS

10am departure on the 15th, AMS-SEA

 

Thus, somewhere somehow, either KL or Choice moved you from the 14th to the 15th for the FCO-AMS segment -- is that correct?

 

Interesting, as the 9pm FCO-AMS is still in the KL schedule - KL 1608. But I want to confirm the facts as laid out above before suggesting a course of action.

Edited March 1, 2015 by FlyerTalker

[MustBCruzn]

I am confused. I read you were booked FCO-AMS on 14 Sept, overnight at AMS, Then on 15 Sept, you were booked AMS-SEA at 10:00 am?

 

But the schedule was changed so now your AMS-SEA flight on 15 Sept has been changed to 6:20 (am or pm?). I am not sure why this is a problem.

 

I can only tell you that if it meets minimum connection times, you usually will not get a free change.

 

Sorry if I confused you...we now arrive in AMS at 8:50am and depart AMS to SEA at 10:00am (same day), giving us a 70 minute layover.

[6rugrats]

That shouldn't be a problem.

[MustBCruzn]

Let me see if I have this straight before getting into advice.

 

You were originally booked as follows:

 

9pm departure on the 14th, FCO-AMS

Overnight at AMS

10am departure on the 15th, AMS-SEA

 

Now, you are saying that your tickets have been changed to:

 

6:20am departure on the 15th, FCO-AMS

Same day connection at AMS

10am departure on the 15th, AMS-SEA

 

Thus, somewhere somehow, either KL or Choice moved you from the 14th to the 15th for the FCO-AMS segment -- is that correct?

 

Interesting, as the 9pm FCO-AMS is still in the KL schedule - KL 1608. But I want to confirm the facts as laid out above before suggesting a course of action.

 

You have it correct. And thank you for your input.

[greatam]

You may be better off spending the night in Rome than Amsterdam just due to hotel prices. But who is paying for that hotel in Rome since you are basically being FORCED to stay there?

[6rugrats]

You may be better off spending the night in Rome than Amsterdam just due to hotel prices. But who is paying for that hotel in Rome since you are basically being FORCED to stay there?

I know nothing about Choice Air and schedule changes, but if the OP had booked directly through the airline, the OP would be paying for the hotel.

Edited March 1, 2015 by 6rugrats

[greatam]

I know nothing about Choice Air and schedule changes, but if the OP had booked directly through the airline, the OP would be paying for the hotel.

 

I certainly understand that but Flyertalker posted (and I looked it up myself) that flight to AMS is still flying on the 14th. AND if they had booked directly with the airline, they probably would have had choices (2 other flights from 3PM) instead of being FORCED to spend the night in Rome.

 

Another big downside of Choice Air-few choices. Their allocation of bulk purchased tickets probably DID NOT include the 9PM flight, layover at AMS, then continue on. Choice Air much more likely has a large allocation of 6AM to AMS tickets because they could make many more connections out of AMS to almost any place in Europe or the USA early/mid morning than they could have with a flight arriving very late evening. NOT many flights to any place out of AMS at midnight. I see one Turkish Airways flight to SEA via IST/JFK at midnight (30 hours total). Even to JFK or ORD, I only see two other late night/early morning flights-to JFK via Moscow on Aeroflot at 12:25AM and another Turkish Airways flight to ORD at 12:35AM via IST.

 

It's just the logistics planner in me. MOST people leaving a cruise are not going to take a short haul flight, spend the night when there really isn't time for sightseeing, then take the TATL flight to any place in the USA. So I will just bet money Choice Air may have offered that late evening AMS flight on their website BUT they don't have any tickets allocated for it. And to purchase those tickets NOT under contract is a fortune, so the chances of them doing that are probably slim and none. Even under Sabre's most heavily discounted fare class, the ticket is almost 3 times the price on KL as on the BA nonstop.

[FlyerTalker]

I guess that the next question is...were you given actual ticket numbers? Were the tickets paid for, or were they just reservations pending a "final payment"? If the latter, then I'm going with Greatam's explanation - there weren't any actual bulk tickets for the 9pm and so you were given what they did have tickets for....the morning of the 15th. It wasn't a schedule change or some other reason, it's that there never was availability on that flight at the cruiseline bulk rate. Even now, you may not have actual tickets until they are paid for. (Some of the great mysteries and vagaries of cruiseline air).

 

Thought problem for a Sunday....a cruiseline doesn't consider you ticketed for the cruise until you have paid for it. Why would someone consider that cruiseline air is ticketed without having been paid for and thus open for cancellation by the passenger?

[greatam]

were you given actual ticket numbers? Were the tickets paid for, or were they just reservations pending a "final payment"?

 

Even if the air tickets were paid in full during the Choice Air booking process, unless the OP has the actual ticket numbers, they just had "placeholders" as Kenish so aptly posted. And since that 9PM flight out of FCO to AMS is probably not a big seller for cruise passengers, even though it was on the Choice Air website, I still bet there are just no tickets available.

 

OP, you do understand that Choice Air DOES NOT as a general rule book SPECIFIC tickets for your party as you would on an airline website if you are booking strictly by price (which is what most people are looking at)?

 

Visualize a whole stack of tickets "sitting on the shelf" which were purchased under a bulk/specially negotiated fare/consolidator contract basis well over a year pre flight. So when you pointed and clicked to buy "YOUR" ticket on the Choice Air website, your ticket had already been purchased and your name just got added to one of the ones sitting on the shelf. If there were none sitting on the shelf for that 9PM FCO/AMS flight, you were told the flight had changed because Choice Air had plenty of 6AM tickets on the 15 but none for your 9PM flight on the 14th.

 

Guess you get extra time in Rome unless you can produce the actual ticket numbers. If you can, THEN you have a legitimate complaint and could force Choice Air to spend the money to get you on that expensive 9PM KL flight.

 

Good luck!!!

[MustBCruzn]

OP here:) Greatam I believe you summed up my issue perfectly. Yes, I paid by cc at the time I was on the phone with CA...and was clearly under the impression that I was paying for the evening flight--although the rep tried to "guide" me to the a.m flight several times, however I was (and still am) concerned about the short layover time. We went over my preferred itinerary, so in my mind there was NO confusion. This was my first time (and likely my last) using CA and in hindsight I realize my error was not being able to see my itinerary in front of me--in print--before giving my cc information. Now I have to decide if a 70 minute layover is too risky or continue to push for my original flight.

[FlyerTalker]

OK...now that we have it pretty well sorted out:

 

The MCT at AMS for KL-DL is 50 minutes, but I can tell you that's a tight number. Especially for a bulk ticket, your chances of getting it changed to the 9pm flight for no cost (or minimal cost) is close to nil, IMO. You have a legal ticket. In addition, it appears that you did not ever have a ticket for the 9pm flight, so there never was a "change"...it was just changed between what you thought you were buying and what you actually did buy. Had there been an actual ticketing on the 9pm that was then changed, you might have a case. But I truly believe you are stuck. Because contrary to your final words, you never had an "original flight".

 

Now...what to do. First off, get a map or two or three of AMS to help you orient yourself to the airport layout. Unfortunately, the nice PDF maps they used to have on the Schiphol site have been removed for the improved "interactive" map. So google "map Schiphol" and look at the images tab. Lots of good versions of previous maps. Flights from FCO would arrive in the Schengen section at pier B, C or D. If you look closely on some maps, you will see a red dotted line near the D pier. That's the barrier between Schengen and extra-Schengen.

 

You will have to pass though there for outbound immigration control. Look for a "short connection" line if one's open and see if you qualify on your time. Don't get in the short connect line if you are outside the listed window, as you may get sent back to the main line and lose time that way.

 

Once through immigration, you will now go to the E pier, which is where the DL flights to the USA are. There will be both a security interview and a security screening at the gate, so don't dawdle. The good news is that you should get all of your boarding passes at FCO, so no need to go to a transfer desk or kiosk.

 

The good news is that the signage at AMS is some of the best in the world. If you follow the big yellow signs, you'll get to your gate without getting lost.

[MustBCruzn]

FlyerTalker - Thank you very much...your suggestions are excellent. While it may be a waste of my time, I'm going to contact a CA supervisor to see if the calls are recorded and hopefully pursue a change in ticketing based on the call. I'm printing off the airport maps as you suggested just in case. Again, thanks for the assistance.

[greatam]

FlyerTalker - Thank you very much...your suggestions are excellent. While it may be a waste of my time, I'm going to contact a CA supervisor to see if the calls are recorded and hopefully pursue a change in ticketing based on the call. I'm printing off the airport maps as you suggested just in case. Again, thanks for the assistance.

 

Please don't waste your time. It will be an exercise in frustration. Recorded calls are the property of the company recording the call-you agreed to the recording-you know, that little message no one pays attention to-"this call is being recorded". They DO NOT have to share. The chances of them pulling that recording (if there is one) WITHOUT A COURT SUBPOENA are slim and none (in fact ZERO CHANCE). They only use those recordings. when they are taken to court. They sure aren't going to produce it without the subpoena when it is going to cost them money.

 

That KL flight to AMS is pricey, pricey-230 Euros vs 74 Euros on BA. So please take a GOOD LOOK at what you paid. If adding in that FCO/AMS flight with an overnight throws the price into that too good to be true category, that pretty well answers your question. And I still bet Choice Air NEVER had any tickets from FCO to AMS-the probably inexperienced agent could see it on their website and THOUGHT it might work. BUT in your own words, they kept "pushing" you to the next morning 6AM (where they had a LOT of tickets). That should have been a dead give away. They most likely HAD NONE of those FCO/AMS tickets in their contracts but THOUGHT MAYBE they could get one until they saw the price.

 

Good luck getting through the airport. JUST BE PREPARED.

Edited March 2, 2015 by greatam

[MustBCruzn]

Greatam - Ugh. I'm sure you're right. So now I have a question for you and FlyerTalker. What would happen if I just purchased a one-way FCO-AMS myself (much cheaper than the change fee)? Since my ticket is a 3-part ticket, and I'd use the SEA-AMS leg, obviously...would Delta allow me to use the AMS-SEA leg without also using the FCO-AMS portion? Thanks again all for your assistance. I'll NEVER make this mistake again!

[FlyerTalker]

Greatam - Ugh. I'm sure you're right. So now I have a question for you and FlyerTalker. What would happen if I just purchased a one-way FCO-AMS myself (much cheaper than the change fee)? Since my ticket is a 3-part ticket, and I'd use the SEA-AMS leg, obviously...would Delta allow me to use the AMS-SEA leg without also using the FCO-AMS portion? Thanks again all for your assistance. I'll NEVER make this mistake again!

Again...no. (Seems like we keep saying this to you...)

 

Flight "coupons"/segments (to use the old terminology) must be used in the original sequence. If you miss one, all subsequent ones are subject to cancellation. So, even if you buy another ticket for the night before, you are a no-show for the morning flight from FCO, and thus your onward reservations are cancelled.

 

Suggestion if I may: Give it up. You ended up buying something you didn't want, or at least didn't think you were getting. Now, it's too late to change that, at least not without significant cost. Yes, this is harsh, but I really want to save you the mental gymnastics for a fool's errand. Take what you bought and run with it. If nothing else, the mental effort/stress will be gone and you can just run with what you have. It's not the worst connection we've seen here - just be prepared and move your butt when you hit the gate. Odds are good for you if you don't dawdle and if your origin flight from FCO is on time.

 

Apologies in advance if this is "rude" or "harsh" or "insensitive" (to quote some of the terms bandied about here), but I think you're at the point where you want just the straight scoop.

[MustBCruzn]

Again...no. (Seems like we keep saying this to you...)Suggestion if I may: Give it up. Apologies in advance if this is "rude" or "harsh" or "insensitive" (to quote some of the terms bandied about here), but I think you're at the point where you want just the straight scoop.

 

Hahaha...no, not rude, harsh, or insensitive at all. I have a custom made "Rhino-Liner" jacket after spending 23 years in the Navy! :D And I do appreciate the straight info. It's what I need to be prepared. Thanks again everyone for the info and great tips.

[skf]

Dear Mr FlyerTalker...

Would it do any good for OP MustBe to ask the Flight Attendants for an expedited exit due to a tight transfer time?

[FlyerTalker]

It is nowhere near being necessary for a "stay in your seats" announcement. The times when I have heard that has been when the flight has been significantly delayed and everyone knows that some folks connections are tight or already missed.

 

Besides, other than an announcement, do you think the FAs will keep folks from getting up and into the aisles? Four FAs vs an entire plane of folks wanting to get off. If the OP is in row 25....

 

Which is a good reason for the OP to make it to the airport early...intra-Europe flights get coach seats assigned at the airport. Early check-in may be better. Or, if OLCI is available, that may get you seats closer to the front. Can't advise if OLCI is available as I don't avail myself of that overseas.

[Globaliser]

I've got a couple of questions about this, which stem from my lack of experience with actually using Choice Air and similar services in the US, and (when booking fly cruise packages from the UK) being able to ask for and get exactly the flights I want:-

 

Is Choice Air supposed to allow you to choose whatever flights you want?

 

Does the cost of each flight vary?

 

If the OP's original flight still exists, is the problem only that it is now more expensive than it was originally offered at?

 

Or is the problem that you can't actually have any flight you want and Choice Air is no longer offering the original flight (at any price)?