Any update on Liberty?

[ILCruzr]

http://www.galveston.com/webcams. There are several that focus on the cruise piers.

 

She left Texas!!! woo Hooo! Sailing toward progreso!

[jasong38501]

All future cruises on Liberty are currently off of Carnival's website. Once they come back up will be interested in see what they have been changing or what is going on.

[cndwelch]

All future cruises on Liberty are currently off of Carnival's website. Once they come back up will be interested in see what they have been changing or what is going on.

 

Here's an update on all remaining Liberty cruises out of Galveston:

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fhelp.carnival.com%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4218%2Fkw%2Fliberty&h=sAQH_OrQh

Edited November 11, 2016 by cndwelch

[jasong38501]

This change is being made since Carnival Valor is better suited to operate at the higher speeds required for the four and five-day Mexico itineraries from Galveston while Carnival Liberty is well equipped to handle shorter duration cruises from Central Florida.

 

Does this sound odd to anyone other than me? Shouldn't they be similarly suited for the same speeds since they are sister ships? Sounds like there is something major wrong with Liberty that they don't want to fix so they move it to a short Bahama run that allows for lower speeds. But I am no expert.

[poz222]

Swapping ships (valor and Liberty). After liberty does modified itineraries on 11/14, 11/19 and 11/26 it goes to Drydock... seems the Valor will move to Galveston after dec11 cruise and taking over libertys runs... which means liberty will probably do the PCC to bahamas runs...

[jasong38501]

Swapping ships (valor and Liberty). After liberty does modified itineraries on 11/14, 11/19 and 11/26 it goes to Drydock... seems the Valor will move to Galveston after dec11 cruise and taking over libertys runs... which means liberty will probably do the PCC to bahamas runs...

 

I am just curious why Carnival is saying Valor is better suited to handle the higher speeds required to sail out of Galveston. I didn't know there were major technical differences across the Conquest class ships.

[nol4am]

Obviously she isn't fixed properly. Though I'm glad to cruise, I hope we'll be safe. Losing Jamaica and grand cayman is a big change and very disappointing.

Edited November 11, 2016 by nol4am

[OhJinkies]

This change is being made since Carnival Valor is better suited to operate at the higher speeds required for the four and five-day Mexico itineraries from Galveston while Carnival Liberty is well equipped to handle shorter duration cruises from Central Florida.

 

Does this sound odd to anyone other than me? Shouldn't they be similarly suited for the same speeds since they are sister ships? Sounds like there is something major wrong with Liberty that they don't want to fix so they move it to a short Bahama run that allows for lower speeds. But I am no expert.

I'm booked on the Valor for a February cruise from Port Canaveral and just received an email informing me that the Valor will be switching with the Liberty:

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE

CARNIVAL VALOR

CHANGE OF SISTER SHIPS

12/18/2016 - 04/30/2018

 

November 11, 2016

 

Dear Carnival Valor Guest,

 

We know you must be looking forward to your vacation, so we'd like to inform you of an important change to your cruise.

 

Carnival Valor will be changing her homeport to Galveston, Texas next month. This change is being made since Carnival Valor is better suited to operate at the higher speeds required for the four and five-day Mexico itineraries from Galveston.

 

Not to worry, Carnival Liberty will be sailing year round from Port Canaveral beginning December 15, 2016 and will take over scheduled itineraries given that she is well equipped to handle our short duration cruises from Central Florida. Prior to repositioning to Port Canaveral, Carnival Liberty will have just completed a dry dock and will be refreshed for our guests.

 

Built only one year apart, Carnival Liberty is a sister ship to Carnival Valor and has similar accommodations, public venues and Fun Ship 2.0 features including Guy's Burger Joint, BlueIguana Cantina, the RedFrog Rum Bar and BlueIguana Tequila Bar.

 

As a result of this repositioning, your reservation will be moved to a comparable stateroom aboard the beautiful Carnival Liberty. Your departure date and scheduled itinerary will remain the same.

 

Sit back and relax...we'll be doing all the work. Affected sailings are now temporarily closed in the system as our team prepares to make the necessary changes. This means that you, nor our contact center, will be able to make modifications to your reservation until it has been moved over to Carnival Liberty.

 

We will do everything possible to match your current accommodations. Fly2Fun flights, transfers and other vacation components such as dining, pre-paid gratuities, shore excursions, Fun Shop items and Spa reservations will be maintained on your booking.

 

We anticipate our work will be completed by the end of November. A confirmation with your stateroom assignment will be sent to you as soon as we have finished.

 

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

 

We're looking forward to welcoming you aboard the beautiful Carnival Liberty for a FUN and memorable cruise!

 

Sincerely,

Denese Waiters

Sr. Director, Guest Services - Contact Centers

Edited November 11, 2016 by OhJinkies

[jimbo5544]

Obviously she isn't fixed properly. Though I'm glad to cruise, I hope we'll be safe. Losing Jamaica and grand cayman is a big change and very disappointing.

 

 

The Coast Guard would not let them sail if it were an issue.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[chengkp75]

I'm going to bet that they had a problem with a propulsion motor, not an alternator as previously stated. On another thread regarding this problem on the Liberty, I explained how each of the two propulsion motors had two separate windings, each winding providing half power to the motor. If one winding in the motor fails, the motor can only produce half power. I believe the Dream or the Breeze is sailing currently with this problem as well. I guess they were hoping for a failure that could be repaired quickly, but have found that it will require renewing the winding. This requires cutting a hole in the side of the ship and moving the motor out. Think along the lines of Liberty's recent bow thruster repair, but magnify the size and weight of the motor by 10. Since Liberty is scheduled for drydock in January, they will make the repair then.

 

As for safety, the ship still has 75% of its propulsion power, in 3 separate systems that would all have to fail to stop the ship, and 100% of its power generating capacity. As stated before, the flag state, the classification society (insurance underwriter), and the port state (USCG) have determined that the ship is seaworthy, and presents no undue risk (other than the normal risk of going to sea) to the passengers, crew, or environment.

[nealstuber]

This requires cutting a hole in the side of the ship and moving the motor out. Think along the lines of Liberty's recent bow thruster repair, but magnify the size and weight of the motor by 10. Since Liberty is scheduled for drydock in January, they will make the repair then.

 

 

 

.

 

The part I'm not understanding is why they need to swap Liberty and Valor AFTER the dry dock.

Seems like they are not planning to do this repair at that time and that does not make much sense to me unless the power plant on Liberty was smaller to begin with.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[chengkp75]

The part I'm not understanding is why they need to swap Liberty and Valor AFTER the dry dock.

Seems like they are not planning to do this repair at that time and that does not make much sense to me unless the power plant on Liberty was smaller to begin with.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Now that I look at the drydock schedule, I think that the repair won't be made during this drydock, most likely there is a lead time problem, as most of this kind of equipment isn't off the shelf. I do know that there is still some disruption at Grand Bahamas Shipyard, causing either schedules to shift or work to be curtailed, so an unscheduled addition to Liberty's yard plan of repairing/replacing a propulsion motor may not be viable.

[lccruiser2006]

wrong thread - sorry

Edited November 11, 2016 by lccruiser2006

[Momma1980]

Chengkp75-

Thanks for your reply. Always appreciate and enjoy informative and well written posts from you.

[shackpacker]

Just got an email from Carnival at 5:30 a.m. about the 11/19 sailing. The ship will be arriving late into Galveston so no boarding until 6-9 p.m. Then they have cancelled Jamaica and Cayman and are substituting Costa Maya instead. There will be two days at sea on the 20th and 21st, Costa Maya on the 22nd, Cozumel on the 23rd, then sea days on the 24th and 25th. They are offering a big $50 per person credit on the Sail and Sign and 25% off future cruise. Not particularly happy about this. No shore excursions are up yet since they have to reschedule all of that in Costa Maya.:(:(:(

[sjcruiser]

Received the same email this morning. We had a December 22nd cruise booked on the Valor, and now it's changed to the Liberty. I just checked our folio, and the Valor is still listed, so I guess they'll make the change over the next few days or so. Hopefully all my OBC, and items from Bon Voyage transition to the new sailing without any problems. Since it's a weekend cruise going to the Bahamas, it's no big deal to us, we'll just go with the flow.

 

I'm booked on the Valor for a February cruise from Port Canaveral and just received an email informing me that the Valor will be switching with the Liberty:

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE

CARNIVAL VALOR

CHANGE OF SISTER SHIPS

12/18/2016 - 04/30/2018

 

November 11, 2016

 

Dear Carnival Valor Guest,

 

We know you must be looking forward to your vacation, so we'd like to inform you of an important change to your cruise.

 

Carnival Valor will be changing her homeport to Galveston, Texas next month. This change is being made since Carnival Valor is better suited to operate at the higher speeds required for the four and five-day Mexico itineraries from Galveston.

 

Not to worry, Carnival Liberty will be sailing year round from Port Canaveral beginning December 15, 2016 and will take over scheduled itineraries given that she is well equipped to handle our short duration cruises from Central Florida. Prior to repositioning to Port Canaveral, Carnival Liberty will have just completed a dry dock and will be refreshed for our guests.

 

Built only one year apart, Carnival Liberty is a sister ship to Carnival Valor and has similar accommodations, public venues and Fun Ship 2.0 features including Guy's Burger Joint, BlueIguana Cantina, the RedFrog Rum Bar and BlueIguana Tequila Bar.

 

As a result of this repositioning, your reservation will be moved to a comparable stateroom aboard the beautiful Carnival Liberty. Your departure date and scheduled itinerary will remain the same.

 

Sit back and relax...we'll be doing all the work. Affected sailings are now temporarily closed in the system as our team prepares to make the necessary changes. This means that you, nor our contact center, will be able to make modifications to your reservation until it has been moved over to Carnival Liberty.

 

We will do everything possible to match your current accommodations. Fly2Fun flights, transfers and other vacation components such as dining, pre-paid gratuities, shore excursions, Fun Shop items and Spa reservations will be maintained on your booking.

 

We anticipate our work will be completed by the end of November. A confirmation with your stateroom assignment will be sent to you as soon as we have finished.

 

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

 

We're looking forward to welcoming you aboard the beautiful Carnival Liberty for a FUN and memorable cruise!

 

Sincerely,

Denese Waiters

Sr. Director, Guest Services - Contact Centers

[nealstuber]

Now that I look at the drydock schedule, I think that the repair won't be made during this drydock, most likely there is a lead time problem, as most of this kind of equipment isn't off the shelf. I do know that there is still some disruption at Grand Bahamas Shipyard, causing either schedules to shift or work to be curtailed, so an unscheduled addition to Liberty's yard plan of repairing/replacing a propulsion motor may not be viable.

 

 

So the folks in FL should look forward to an unscheduled dry dock within the current booking window. And while the PC itineraries are doable with 75% propulsion, a similar winding failure on one of the 3 before that drydock can be scheduled will wreak some serious Havoc.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited November 11, 2016 by nealstuber

[chengkp75]

So the folks in FL should look forward to an unscheduled dry dock within the current booking window. And while the PC itineraries are doable with 75% propulsion, a similar winding failure on one of the 3 before that drydock can be scheduled will wreak some serious Havoc.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Possibly, or they will leave it alone until the next drydocking in 2021. Looking at the Valor's itineraries, she only needs 10 knots or less for all of the passages on both itineraries, except the PC to Nassau passage on the 3 day, which requires 16 knots, which I think she could easily do on 50% propulsion, assuming another winding failure.

[toosaxykk]

Family and I are on the 1st sailing on Valor from Galveston on 12/17/16. It is a very unique 6 day sailing porting in Costa Maya, Belize and Cozumel. I am hoping and PRAYING that our itinerary will remain the same since we will have a full speed ship. However, our exact cabin on the Valor only holds 3 and we will be traveling with 4 so I am nervous about that switch.

 

 

Anyone else on this 12/17/16 Valor (Galveston) sailing?

 

 

This is a real bummer for all involved and a real headache for CCL, I'm sure. I just have to remember that ANY day on a cruise ship is better than home/ work! Keep positive!

[jonboy9756]

mistake sorry

Edited November 11, 2016 by jonboy9756

[toosaxykk]

Are you sure you are on the VALOR from Galveston? She sails from Port Canaveral???

 

Yes... that sailing with be on the Valor as the Valor is moving to Galveston to accommodate the further distance to get to Caribbean.

[nealstuber]

Possibly, or they will leave it alone until the next drydocking in 2021. Looking at the Valor's itineraries, she only needs 10 knots or less for all of the passages on both itineraries, except the PC to Nassau passage on the 3 day, which requires 16 knots, which I think she could easily do on 50% propulsion, assuming another winding failure.

 

 

If one winding in one motor built and installed at the same time, using the same materials by the same company has failed, I'm not wild about the prospect of the other three making it till 2021. I'd like to think that CCL's PM plan includes taking and tracking meg readings of these critical parts, but if that was the case the 1st failure would not have been a surprise. And if they're not doing a good job on this front, it increases the likelihood that things like crank case vapor readings steering And navigation PMs are not what they should be.

I also think CCL was slightly misleading in their release by stating that Liberty would go to dry dock before going to PC without mentioning they were not going to be able to do anything about the propulsion issue in dry dock.

 

I think the swap was the best possible move under the circumstances and hope they play the odds till the first week after the current booking window and get it squared away at that point.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Edited November 12, 2016 by nealstuber

[BallFour4]

Possibly, or they will leave it alone until the next drydocking in 2021. Looking at the Valor's itineraries, she only needs 10 knots or less for all of the passages on both itineraries, except the PC to Nassau passage on the 3 day, which requires 16 knots, which I think she could easily do on 50% propulsion, assuming another winding failure.

 

I'm an avid follower of your posts, and have a couple of questions.

 

First, I think I understand each drive motor would have two independent windings. If one of those had failed and the ship operated at a reduced speed would that shorten the life of the second winding?

 

Second, would a manufacturer of the drive motor have provided a warranty over several years or would that time have passed?

 

Finally, aside from cutting a hole the size of a truck can you describe what a fix/replacement would involve?

 

Again, for someone that spends time in the world of cath labs, this is fascinating to read.

 

lee

 

 

.

Edited November 12, 2016 by BallFour4

[chengkp75]

If one winding in one motor built and installed at the same time, using the same materials by the same company has failed, I'm not wild about the prospect of the other three making it till 2021. I'd like to think that CCL's PM plan includes taking and tracking meg readings of these critical parts, but if that was the case the 1st failure would not have been a surprise. And if they're not doing a good job on this front, it increases the likelihood that things like crank case vapor readings steering And navigation PMs are not what they should be.

I also think CCL was slightly misleading in their release by stating that Liberty would go to dry dock before going to PC without mentioning they were not going to be able to do anything about the propulsion issue in dry dock.

 

I think the swap was the best possible move under the circumstances and hope they play the odds till the first week after the current booking window and get it squared away at that point.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I'm not onboard so I can't say what the exact failure was, but I'm just expressing a professional opinion based on the symptoms (reduced speed) and the action of swapping ships after a drydock period. It could still be an alternator failure, if they needed all 6 generators to make full speed. But if two cars built in the same year and by the same factory run for 10 years and one has the A/C compressor fail and the other doesn't, do you feel uncomfortable that the other compressor won't last? Think of how many of these propulsion motors there are out there, some running far longer than those on the Liberty. Look at azipod thrust bearings. Some ships have had problems very quickly in their service life, others have not. And I didn't say they would let it go until the next scheduled drydocking, just that they could.

 

Secondly, I don't know for sure, since I don't work for Carnival, that they are not going to fix this, so I can't say whether they are misleading in their statement or not. There is also the problem of getting drydock time. GBSY is typically booked 12-18 months in advance, and as I've said, they are reports of RCI not completing scheduled upgrades and just doing maintenance due to schedule constraints or infrastructure limitations there.

[chengkp75]

 

I'm an avid follower of your posts, and have a couple of questions.

 

First, I think I understand each drive motor would have two independent windings. If one of those had failed and the ship operated at a reduced speed would that shorten the life of the second winding?

 

Second, would a manufacturer of the drive motor have provided a warranty over several years or would that time have passed?

 

Finally, aside from cutting a hole the size of a truck can you describe what a fix/replacement would involve?

 

Again, for someone that spends time in the world of cath labs, this is fascinating to read.

 

lee

 

 

.

 

Most marine equipment is warranted for 1-2 years, but there could be "implied" warranties based on the manufacturer's maintenance schedule. For a ship 10 years old, I wouldn't expect to see any ability to claim for a warranty, especially if the maintenance records and class society surveys show the unit was well maintained.

 

No, running with just one winding would not affect the other.

 

As for the repair, this motor is placed in the "grand block" (blocks are sections of the ship that are built on land, as large as can be moved easily, and are then combined into grand blocks which are several hundred tons, as large as the largest crane in the yard can lift to be put into the building dock) as it is assembled, so getting it out without taking the whole ship off above requires some work. They will cut the hull, then remove any equipment outboard of the motor, typically this is the frequency drive for the motor that allows the motor to run at variable speed to drive the propeller, and any decks, pipes, electrical cables, etc. between the motor and the hole. Then they will build skid rails from the motor out through the side of the ship, and after disconnecting the motor electrically and mechanically, they will use hydraulic jacks to skid the motor out the side of the ship. Once clear, a crane can lift the motor, they take it to a shop, dismantle and repair the motor, and reverse the whole procedure.

 

If it is an alternator failure, which could still be the case, if Liberty actually needed all 6 generators to make the speed required to make the Western Carib itineraries, then they can do the same process for the outboard alternator. The engines and alternators are three across in two engine rooms, so there are two centerline alternators, and these cannot be taken out the side without removing one of the outboard alternators, so doubling the work. Instead, what they would do is what Oasis did for replacing their centerline diesel engine, they place the ship on extra high blocks in the drydock, support the alternator from above in the engine room, and cut through the bottom of the ship, the tank below the alternator, and the deck around the alternator base, lower the alternator to the bottom of the dock, and skid it out aft. Replace/repair the alternator, skid it back into location, lift it and the bottom of the ship back up, and weld in place.

 

The reason each propulsion motor has two windings is redundancy. There are two engine rooms, each with 3 diesel generators. The 3 generators in each engine room supply electricity to a switchboard, where the power is distributed to all the necessary users (hotel load, propulsion, engineering, thrusters). Each engine room feeds a separate switchboard that has a connecting circuit breaker. All major electrical loads can be fed from either switchboard, so if there is a problem with one switchboard, you disconnect that, and you can provide power to everything, you just can't provide as much (since you now only have 3 generators available). Each of the windings in the propulsion motors is fed from a different switchboard, so if you have both switchboards active, you can provide full power (half on each winding), but if one switchboard is down, you can only provide half power.