No lounge chairs on Kdam veranda deck ?

[Ken the cruiser]

No. They just wanted to convert all of the deck 4 obstructed OV (G&H) on previous ships to verandahs for increased revenue. As it turns out they got what I would call "semi verandas" with the top of the life boats about even with the top of the raling.

 

Thanks jtl513. I was just curious. That might explain why the obstructed verandas start at the same starting price or just a little more than the OV rooms.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Ken the cruiser

[OceanTraveller4ever]

Excellent discussion thread. Very informative.

 

I agree with most comments. especially RuthC, jt and rm

 

Another poor design direction of the Kdam are the SS suites, and the very low number of them. Another trend of packing more pax on a ship :(

The idea of putting a makeup desk in the first third of the room, pushes the bed very close to the outside wall, and renders it more of a verandah style cabin, as opposed to the current "salon" style cabin.

 

Always loved, and mostly booked the ss/sy cabins, but their woeful redesign on the Kdam, is most definitely off-putting.

[bUU]

I see no one on this thread giving any reasons why they prefer the Alleyway.

That is because you started out complaining about it as an error the cruise line made instead of something you were personally unhappy with. People followed your lead about what the discussion was about.

 

Also, keep in mind that there is a spectrum of preference, and your biggest concern is from those for whom this issue doesn't matter. They're more of a risk to your preference than anything else.

 

I'm sure that HAL will have no trouble filling the K for many years to come. But not with my money.

No harm, no foul.

 

 

Sure, bigger ships can offer more amenities but at some point, the ship becomes so large that it's just not a Holland ship anymore.

True but keep in mind that it is Holland America that determines what is and is not a Holland America ship. As powerful as customers are, their power doesn't go that far.

[jtl513]

That is because you started out complaining about it as an error the cruise line made instead of something you were personally unhappy with. People followed your lead about what the discussion was about.

Wrong.

 

The OP set the "error" and "unhappy about" tone with his opening words "Say it ain't so ..."

 

In post #6 OceanTraveler4ever said "the design direction of the Kdam is lamentable."

 

My first post, #7, was just a picture without comment

 

In post #11 take us away said "So sad that the on the K-dam ..."

 

My first negative post was #16, which was a rebuttal to Tennessee Titan's statement that "The Promenade on the K is more than adequate for "promenading".

 

I did NOT set the "lead about what the discussion was about"

.

Edited December 11, 2016 by jtl513

[fusion927]

..., nor even be able to get outside to the Promenade Deck in a scooter.

 

Not True. My wife had no issues doing laps and watching dockings/undockings from her scooter. In fact, there are a couple of doorways with automatic doors (and/or handicap buttons to open the doors) and longer, shallower ramps with no lips. I don't remember those on the other ships!

 

Okay, you found the "promenade" adequate for your needs ... but can you say that you prefer it to those on other HAL ships? Other than the increased privacy mentioned by Lovely Other, or that fact that it forces inside musters mentioned by Ken the cruiser, I see no one on this thread giving any reasons why they prefer the Alleyway.

 

Two reasons I preferred the narrow promenade: Muster inside (as already mention) is a big win. The other reason is that it allows for wider corridors inside (given that the ship's beam is fixed). When the whole ship is on the move between the dining room and the entertainment, the extra space is nice and greatly reduces the perception of crowding.

[jtl513]

Two reasons I preferred the narrow promenade: Muster inside (as already mention) is a big win. The other reason is that it allows for wider corridors inside (given that the ship's beam is fixed). When the whole ship is on the move between the dining room and the entertainment, the extra space is nice and greatly reduces the perception of crowding.

Both of these could still be true if they had added 10 feet to the beam to make a wider promenade. Deck 3 (Promenade) could be unchanged inside, and deck 2 would be even more spacious. On the main deck extra space could have enlarged the Hudson, Half-Moon, and Stuyvesant rooms, and/or added some work space.

 

There is no reason that muster can not be done inside on ALL HAL ships. It was forced on the K by the narrow promenade, but a matter of choice by HAL on all other ships. The only non-HAL ships I've ever sailed had inside musters. That is not really an argument for a narrow promenade.

 

BTW I too liked the wider aisles on the public decks. :)

Edited December 11, 2016 by jtl513

[RocketMan275]

Both of these could still be true if they had added 10 feet to the beam to make a wider promenade. Deck 4 could be unchanged inside, and decks 3 and below would be even more spacious.

 

 

 

If they added a hundred feet they could build ships like Oasis of the Seas. Just think of all the things they could add.

[jtl513]

If they added a hundred feet they could build ships like Oasis of the Seas. Just think of all the things they could add.

From the sublime to the ridiculous ...

[Tennessee Titan]

not true. My wife had no issues doing laps and watching dockings/undockings from her scooter. In fact, there are a couple of doorways with automatic doors (and/or handicap buttons to open the doors) and longer, shallower ramps with no lips. I don't remember those on the other ships!

 

 

 

Two reasons i preferred the narrow promenade: Muster inside (as already mention) is a big win. The other reason is that it allows for wider corridors inside (given that the ship's beam is fixed). When the whole ship is on the move between the dining room and the entertainment, the extra space is nice and greatly reduces the perception of crowding.

+1!

[jtl513]

This whole flap results from MONEY. The K-dam could have had a wide promenade AND kept a 115 ft beam AND stayed under 100,000 GWT AND added all of the new features inside the ship AND had inside musters just by mounting the lifeboats up higher as on all the other ships. Instead they chose to eliminate a beloved feature of the line, often touted in advertisements, the beautiful promenades, in order to convert some OV cabins to obstructed verandas for the almighty $$$$.

 

OP EDLOS put it well a few posts back:

I sail HAL because of it's differences from Princess, Celebrity, RCC, etc. It keeps me loyal. When you blur the differences, you are likely to lose that loyalty.

Edited December 11, 2016 by jtl513

[Tennessee Titan]

The smaller promenade made way for Grand Dutch Cafe.

 

Point, Koningsdam!

That is a real stretch. The Grand Dutch area ( less than 2% of the total promenade) is where the outside elevators were on the Vista class ships.

[bUU]

 

I did NOT set the "lead about what the discussion was about"

Fair enough. You just went along with that sentiment. It was still the cause.

 

And yes it is all about money. Practically all business is. If money isn't a concern for you then it seems to me you have many choices.

Edited December 12, 2016 by bUU