Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[Fourmiler]

Many thanks for the cool video notamermaid. Until I started following this thread I had no idea there were so many unexploded bombs in the rivers.

[notamermaid]

toseaornottosea,

 

I would finally like to come back to your question in post #282. Thank you for your patience.

 

Notamermaid, and others, I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed on this thread but please be kind enough to comment again. We will be on the Viking Rhine River Getaway Amsterdam to Basel departing Amsterdam in late September. This will be our first river cruise and we hope it will be a river cruise and not a coach tour. What are the minimum water levels that will allow Viking to cruise the Rhine and not have to swap ships and/or revert to coaches? Is there a website where can I find Rhine water levels at the most important/critical measuring stations? I welcome any information you can provide and I thank you in advance for your advice and guidance.

 

The short answer: is we do not know. Viking have never said explicitly on this board - at least since I have been around here in 2013 - at which point they cannot sail anymore. The long answer is, we do not know but can get close to a figure if we try to put this year's situation in a time frame and compare it to the water levels. I shall not speak for any company here as I could get into real trouble, as you can imagine, and can only guide you into a direction. I am sure you have followed this thread along a bit and read that Viking (and all the other companies) made such decisions sometimes at very short notice. Now without further ado and guarantee on my behalf, let us look back.

 

During the low water situation in 2015 we were able to establish that problems start around the river level mark 90cm at Kaub. During November of that year the level at Koblenz fell to 51cm at which point ship swaps and excursion boat substitutes were happening, a level we reached this year on 24 August. On 29 July of this year in post #117 I reported that the river level at Kaub had fallen to 86cm. On 31 July in post #125 I reported that Kaub had fallen to 83cm. I had not checked the website of Viking by then. But on 1 August I did and reported the same day in post #126 that Viking had updated their website (with a notice about the low levels on the Rhine). Kaub fell further but two Viking ships still made it through the Rhine gorge on 3 August. Later in August, when both Kaub and Koblenz were below their respective markers for the navigation channel depth (they happen to be both 78cm) the cruisers reported of ship swaps.

 

I hope this helps.

 

As regards the website for river levels. Here is the map again, this time through a different website, meaning you have an English legend underneath the map: https://www.bafg.de/EN/06_Info_Service/01_WaterLevels/waterlevels_node.html

 

As I write river levels are Maxau 397cm, Kaub 90cm, Koblenz 97cm.

 

notamermaid

[vino100]

I boarded the uniworld Antoinette today and there has been no mention of alternative plans. This is a beautiful ship and so far we are having a marvelous time.

[toseaornottosea]

toseaornottosea,

 

I would finally like to come back to your question in post #282. Thank you for your patience.

 

 

 

The short answer: is we do not know. Viking have never said explicitly on this board - at least since I have been around here in 2013 - at which point they cannot sail anymore. The long answer is, we do not know but can get close to a figure if we try to put this year's situation in a time frame and compare it to the water levels. I shall not speak for any company here as I could get into real trouble, as you can imagine, and can only guide you into a direction. I am sure you have followed this thread along a bit and read that Viking (and all the other companies) made such decisions sometimes at very short notice. Now without further ado and guarantee on my behalf, let us look back.

 

During the low water situation in 2015 we were able to establish that problems start around the river level mark 90cm at Kaub. During November of that year the level at Koblenz fell to 51cm at which point ship swaps and excursion boat substitutes were happening, a level we reached this year on 24 August. On 29 July of this year in post #117 I reported that the river level at Kaub had fallen to 86cm. On 31 July in post #125 I reported that Kaub had fallen to 83cm. I had not checked the website of Viking by then. But on 1 August I did and reported the same day in post #126 that Viking had updated their website (with a notice about the low levels on the Rhine). Kaub fell further but two Viking ships still made it through the Rhine gorge on 3 August. Later in August, when both Kaub and Koblenz were below their respective markers for the navigation channel depth (they happen to be both 78cm) the cruisers reported of ship swaps.

 

I hope this helps.

 

As regards the website for river levels. Here is the map again, this time through a different website, meaning you have an English legend underneath the map: https://www.bafg.de/EN/06_Info_Service/01_WaterLevels/waterlevels_node.html

 

As I write river levels are Maxau 397cm, Kaub 90cm, Koblenz 97cm.

 

notamermaid

 

Dear notamermaid,

 

Thank you so much for getting back to me and thank you for all the helpful info and news, both not so good and good, regarding conditions on the rivers.

 

We embark on our cruise in just over 2 weeks. This is our first river cruise and as ocean cruise veterans (and we have had cruises with missed ports and other deviations and interruptions) we are hopeful it will be an uneventful cruise devoid of ship swaps and long bus trips. All signs seem to be pointing in that direction.

 

toseaornottosea

[notamermaid]

This morning I was very pleased to read that the much anticipated (by me and other steam engine enthusiasts) recovery of the lost steam engine in the Rhine river has made it into the international newspapers. O.k., just one, but I can now finally present you the full story (oh no, I can hear the non-enthusiasts on the internet moan ;)). So if you are as mad as me read on: https://www.wsj.com/articles/treasure-hunt-on-the-rhine-is-for-iron-not-gold-1536513344

 

notamermaid

[notamermaid]

In my enthusiasm earlier I did not check the website again. You can only read the full article on the lost steam engine in the Rhine near Germersheim if you subscribe or login. I did not, of course, I had read the article in full on my smartphone. Sorry. I head mentioned the steam engine in my post #48. The rescue operation has started with an engineering company preparing the river for the actual operation in October. So far, the money needed for the work has been raised and the work is on schedule.

 

 

 

While I am here: the river levels are Maxau 391cm, Kaub 94cm, Koblenz 85cm.

 

 

notamermaid

[jo-b]

There is the same article here (although oddly phrased)

 

http://www.pressmask.com/treasure-hunter-searches-rhine-river-for-a-steam-engine/

[CILCIANRQTS]

Same article by English- speaking author.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/treasure-hunt-on-the-rhine-is-for-iron-not-gold-1536513344

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[notamermaid]

Thanks to both of you for providing a link to the article. As I said the money has been raised for this unusual undertaking, but what does it mean? A first step was to get enough money into a (quite sizable) kitty to pay for the first part of the rescue operation. The next step of crowdfunding is running and this time the kitty is more of cauldron...

 

 

To a very different subject yet with a bit of actual madness thrown in. Composers! They say that sometimes genius and madness are close together and for some folks in the music hemisphere life was not easy. From throwing himself into the river to writing music when deaf here are some composers and what fate threw at them. Their music features in this year's Beethovenfest in Bonn: https://www.dw.com/en/beethovenfest-composers-their-fates-their-music/a-45307432

 

 

notamermaid

 

 

P.S.: River levels. Maxau 393cm, Kaub 90cm, Koblenz 82cm.

[AztecDuo]

We are scheduled on the Basel to Amsterdam Rhine cruise on the Viking Tialfi starting on 15 September. Just received notification from Viking that, due to the water level issues, there was a ship swap. We will now embark from Basel on the Viking Alruna. Viking does not anticipate any additional itinerary adjustments.

 

I am guessing that the Viking Tialfi will embark from Amsterdam on that day. If another ship swap needs to take place, we could end up on the Tailfi after all.

[notamermaid]

Aah, You mean the Viking Alruna is currently sailing in the "wrong" direction, going upstream rather than downstream. And the Viking Tialfi likewise. Would they deliberately switch passenger lots around so you are both back on the right boat, I wonder? Currently all or almost all ships appear to be getting through the Rhine gorge. This week is currently still looking o.k. but as I have just mentioned on the Crystal thread (as regards lack of customer service), the figures are going down slowly again. Will need to wait for the prediction to be adjusted on Thursday before we can say anything sort of reliable about Sunday and the day after.

 

 

It is unseasonably warm here again, with no rain. Forecast for tomorrow is for 31 degrees Celsius maximum in the Upper Rhine valley and Mannheim!

 

 

Have a great cruise, Aztec Duo.

 

notamermaid

[AztecDuo]

I don't think they would deliberately do a switch unless they had to. Too much inconvenience for all involved. I'm sure the Alruna is great!

[notamermaid]

I don't think they would deliberately do a switch unless they had to. Too much inconvenience for all involved. I'm sure the Alruna is great!

 

You are probably right, too much hassle. And the ships being more or less identical I am sure you will miss nothing on the Alruna. Almost everyone has reported back that the crew was great on their respective ship and food was great, so soon it will be time for you to get pampered, too. :)

 

 

notamermaid

[AztecDuo]

Thanks not a mermaid. It will be our first and best one!!

[notamermaid]

In the regional news tonight: the Viking Tialfi ran onto a sandbank near Ludwigshafen earlier today. She was stuck there for a few hours until a barge was able to pull her back into the navigation channel. The river was closed to traffic for a while. There are no reports of injuries. It sounds like a minor mishap. It was expected that she would be given the all clear for sailing on after a close inspection.

 

I hope she is already on her way now. Safe travels!

 

notamermaid

[notamermaid]

It is a splendidly warm and sunny day in my part of the valley. The Viking Tialfi ran aground in the early hours of yesterday trying to dock in Mannheim, apparently. In these low conditions trying to, well, navigate in and out of the navigation channel can be tricky. I expect the passengers were supposed to go on the long day excursion to Heidelberg. Instead they were stuck on the boat as a relief boat could not get near enough to evacuate the Tialfi. Late lunchtime a barge freed the Tialfi and I hope the passengers were able to see at least a bit of Heidelberg. She is now safely docked in Rüdesheim. As I said in my previous post, a minor disruption of the itinerary.

 

 

Unfortunately, the river level at Maxau has fallen overnight more than anticipated. All stations from Andernach are now on orange (official low water status) again. So is Koblenz. Here are the figures: Maxau 375cm, Kaub 86cm, Koblenz 78cm.

 

 

notamermaid

[vino100]

I am on the uniworld Antoinette. We sailed through the romantic river gorge this morning with no problem. Absolutely stunning. The Viking tarif was docked next to us , but has now left.

[notamermaid]

vino100,

 

 

Thank you for reporting from your cruise and that the Antoinette is sailing without problems. Glad to hear you are enjoying the ship and valley. It is a brilliant day for castle-watching!

 

 

I had the great opportunity to speak to a Canadian briefly a couple of years ago when the Antoinette was docked in Koblenz. He was very happy with the ship and itinerary. And I took a photo of the ship (from the outside) with the stunning chandelier in the lobby.

 

 

notamermaid

[normalite]

I am on the Avalon Felicity—left Basel on Sunday, Sept 9, sailing to Amsterdam. We are scheduled to pass through the Rhine River Gorge tomorrow. Our cruise director told us tonight in our briefing that the captain is still planning on taking us through the gorge, although will have to take it slowly. Keeping our fingers crossed!! Thanks to notamermaid and all the other posters who kept me updated as we approached our own cruise date!!

[Labelguy]

Taking the Avalon Felicity B to A on Oct. 7-14. Please keep me posted on how it goes thru the Rhine Gorge and for the balance of your trip. Would also appreciate your suggestions on any “must see or do” activities and sights. We sailed Avalon Panorama on the Danube 2 years ago, it was fantastic. :) Thank you!

[jo-b]

Doug K posted this on the Scenic cancellations and changes thread last night I must admit we are finding it very confusing trying ti guess which ship we may end up on for our Amsterdam Basel cruise on the 26th

 

Quote from Doug K

We boarded the Opal yesterday in Amsterdam, to start a Jewels of Europe cruise to Budapest. I talked to the cruise director last night about water levels, and was told that we didn't have anything to worry about for the first week (i.e., getting through the Rhine gorge). When I pressed her, however, she admitted that the second week could be a big problem--unless the weather forecast changes dramatically, we won't be able to get through from Regensburg to Passau. Even worse, when I asked her about a ship swap, she said that there probably wasn't going to be a ship available to swap to, so we might end up with bus/hotels in Vienna and Budapest. Obviously, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for rain, and that ship logistics might turn out better than she suspected, but I fear we could be ending up with a trip that is similar to the disaster reported here for the Amber a month ago. Ugh!! :loudcry:

[notamermaid]

jo-b,

 

 

you can follow the ships on the website Scenic cruisers have provided and marinetraffic.com. But as of today you could be on any ship that is somewhere on the Moselle, Rhine or Main. If it is not the Jasper it will likely be another ship deployed to do the Rhine this season but they could still switch one from the Main/Danube to the Rhine. For interest's sake here is a bit of playing around with distances: Basel to Amsterdam is - I think - around 900km. Downstream a river cruise ship can sail at an average of 20km - at normal water levels. The journey would then take 45 hours. Slowed down traffic could take that up to 50 hours. Add to that delays for locks. That is without stopping of course. So any ship that is travelling within 1000km of Amsterdam and is on a standard itinerary for passengers, travelling downstream, can easily still make it to Amsterdam to pick you up. Depending on the river levels...

 

 

 

The figures this lunchtime: Maxau 361cm, Kaub 81cm, Koblenz 74cm.

 

 

notamermaid

[jo-b]

Thank you notamermaid, I will now deploy a calculator alongside the crystal ball!

 

Scenic are really not covering themselves with glory, I just called them again about our lack of documentation to be put on hold for 5 minutes as "I couldn't find your details on the spreadsheet for that cruise" only to be told she had no idea why our tickets hadn't been issued with everyone else's !!

[AztecDuo]

The data from notamermaid sounds like the old math word problem that began "Two trains leave from the same station, going in opposite directions...." Based on weather data from weather.com, the forecast for the cities along the Rhine for Basel - Amsterdam 9/15-9/22 looks very nice. That's also the bad news since no almost no rain is forecast.

[sbjornda]

Scenic are really not covering themselves with glory, I just called them again about our lack of documentation to be put on hold for 5 minutes as "I couldn't find your details on the spreadsheet for that cruise" only to be told she had no idea why our tickets hadn't been issued with everyone else's !!

I'm just thinking out loud here, but did you make sure that everything is updated in the Trip Personalizer web site? Incomplete information there might be the cause of a lack of ticketing. Just a thought.