Rhine water levels 2022 and similar topics

[gentlemancruiser]

Not quite on topic but we are currently on the Moselle just past Mehring and it has been raining for about an hour.      Fields nearby are so dry .    
Sailing to Basel and have been told we should be able to make it through the Rhine gorge later this week.  

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, gentlemancruiser said:

Not quite on topic but we are currently on the Moselle just past Mehring

Welcome to Europe, Germany and especially the beautiful Moselle. Sadly, nature is not as lush as it should be at this time of year.

 

Have a great cruise.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

9 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Are you referring to MS Alisa being pushed from Serbia by the Schubboot Argo?

Tatata!!! Correct (and slightly not correct). It is the MS Alisa. She was pushed by the Argo but then on the Rhine made the journey with the help of a different ship. More on the story later.

 

7 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

But based on all the maritime engineering education we have been getting here, whether she's being pushed from behind [= much greater than 135m length total] or the side [= much wider channel required] – how does this work in such low water???

And that is the question I will not be able to fully answer, me not building ships or steering them, but I will try and get close to it.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Brief update on Kaub gauge: 84cm. A fast decline and more than the forecast suggested would happen. Amended forecast, which may now be a little off, suggests Kaub will stay around 80cm to 79 cm tomorrow. But with rain already visible on the radar image I am confident in the suggestion of the level going up a little again on Friday.

 

Finally some rain for the Moselle and Middle Rhine valleys.

 

notamermaid

 

[gentlemancruiser]

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Welcome to Europe, Germany and especially the beautiful Moselle. Sadly, nature is not as lush as it should be at this time of year.

 

Have a great cruise.

 

notamermaid

 

Beautiful country.  My family is from near Ludwigshafen and I will be passing the closest any of my family have been to Eschelbrun where we are from!!!!

 

[RDVIK2016]

4 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Tatata!!! Correct (and slightly not correct). It is the MS Alisa. She was pushed by the Argo but then on the Rhine made the journey with the help of a different ship. More on the story later.

 

11 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

But based on all the maritime engineering education we have been getting here, whether she's being pushed from behind [= much greater than 135m length total] or the side [= much wider channel required] – how does this work in such low water???

 

4 hours ago, notamermaid said:

And that is the question I will not be able to fully answer, me not building ships or steering them, but I will try and get close to it.

 

notamermaid

 

(I apologize if this is a duplicate - I wrote this when I did not see my previous answer appear - Not knowing how long it takes for the comments to upload I just figured I would just send another version of my answer.) 

 

Even in the latest low water situation in the Rhine Gorge were not two lightly loaded cargo barges able to pass going in opposite directions?  If the authorities were to limit river traffic to one direction then two vessels with shallow drafts lashed to together side to side could certainly transit the gorge. 

 

With a little further sleuthing I found that KV Johanna II, took over from SB Argo in pushing/tugging MS Alisa when she got to the Rhine.  Johnanna was lashed to the port side of Alisa and tugged her along to the final destination.  In photos I saw Johanna was also carrying a few containers, but was extremely lightly loaded.  (SB=Schubboot/Pushboat or Schleppboot/Pull tugboat; KV=Koppelverband an integrated barge/tugboat)

[debster818]

7 hours ago, gentlemancruiser said:

Not quite on topic but we are currently on the Moselle just past Mehring and it has been raining for about an hour.      Fields nearby are so dry .    
Sailing to Basel and have been told we should be able to make it through the Rhine gorge later this week.  

Glad to hear this.  We are doing Basel to Amsterdam 9/11.  Praying for good water levels.

[notamermaid]

Just now, RDVIK2016 said:

With a little further sleuthing I found that KV Johanna II, took over from SB Argo in pushing/tugging MS Alisa when she got to the Rhine. 

Full story coming up...

 

I should have been clearer when I posted before. Small river cruise ships have been sailing the Rhine Gorge in these low waters as well as the lightly loaded cargo ships (like the Johanna) but some 110m river cruise ships struggled and stopped as well as all the 135m river cruise ships as far as I can ascertain.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[notamermaid]

The extraordinary grand European journey of the MS Alisa hull part 1

 

The MS Alisa has been ordered by Phoenix Reisen. Her hull was built by the Vahali shipyards in Serbia; the Vahali shipyards in Gendt, Netherlands (the original location) will do the outftting. This has been a standard procedure for some years now.

The MS Alisa left Serbia in July , pushed by Argo, and got as far Linz. There the journey had to be interrupted as the Argo had developed technical problems. Luckily, the stop was not too long as the Argo was several days later spotted with the hull in Regensburg on 7 August. This already tells us that the MS Alisa went through the low stretch around Pfelling when (most likely) no other 135m river cruise ship did. The level at the gauge there was between 240cm and 250cm when the Argo pushed her through. So the Rhine would be okay, right? We will come to that later.

First, the Main Danube Canal and the Main river. As has happended with previous hulls, the MS Alisa got a new push boat, the Zasavica III at Regensburg. The journey along the the canal and river was uneventful as far as I can tell. A few days later, at Gustavsburg, just past the last lock on the Main river, the MS Alisa got a new carrier, a barge that would help her down the Rhine towards Gendt. I have seen this procedure at Gustavsburg with hulls before but do not know why it is a barge instead of a pushboat that is used on the Rhine. So which one would have the responsibility of taking the MS Alisa to Gendt? As we have read, it was the KVB Johanna and Johanna II, meaning a combined barge.

By the time pushboat and hull reached Gustavsburg, the Rhine had lost so much water that it was almost as bad as Pfelling. At the time I did not know if the authorities on the Rhine put restrictions on double-width and extended length barges, so I was eager to find out what would happen and not being able to see the changeover at Gustavsburg did not know which barge it would be and when exactly the journey continue. Would they really sail her alongside a barge? The barge should be able to sail with its hull construction but would the MS Alisa really sail/be sailed when the level at Kaub is only 34cm, I mean it is a different river with different shallows and bends?

 

The day turned out to be the 17th of August and things – again – did not go as planned.

 

To be continued.

 

notamermaid

[OwenSmith]

I'm currently in Amsterdam at the end of my 7 days Basel to Amsterdam on Amadeus Imperial (135m). At the farewell dinner, we were told the captain said that with 1.55m draft we had less than 10cm below the keel at times, and he's sorry if the occasional banging on the rocks and gravel underneath the ship kept anyone awake. So it was clearly very tight, and water levels have dropped since.

The ship is meant to be carrying another Great Rail Journeys cruise to Basel. I suspect they'll need rain to make it.

Edited August 31, 2022 by OwenSmith

[notamermaid]

Just now, OwenSmith said:

At the farewell dinner, we were told the captain said that with 1.55m draft we had less than 10cm below the keel at times, and he's sorry if the occasional banging on the rocks and gravel underneath the ship kept anyone awake. 

Just reading that makes me nervous.

 

Enjoy the rest of your stay in Amsterdam and have a good journey home.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

The extraordinary grand European journey of the MS Alisa hull part 2

 

 

 

Having found the great webcam at Bingen a while ago, which is just opposite Rüdesheim on the Rhine, I thought this would give me a good chance to try and spot the barge with the hull of the MS Alisa. The archived shots that you can retrieve are in ten minute intervalls and that means that most ships that sail past there are caught on camera, either small or clearly discernible. I was lucky and the Johanna was photographed in full view in great sunrise pink hue, I just added a bit of zoom to get her closer:

 

 

Now here comes the „maritime engineering“ bit: the Johanna II is clearly carrying little load herself and much of her hull is exposed. Look at the hull of the MS Asara. She is sitting very high in the water, I mean a high ratio of black against white paint, more than you normally see when river cruise ships are sailing.

 

 

Delighted, I assumed that it must be possible for her to sail through on that day. I found the time stamped photo around lunchtime and by then knew that double-width and extended length ships are allowed and able to sail the Rhine Gorge. It was on that morning (early hours) that a barge of similar dimension had come upstream and due to a technical failure had had an emergency stop at Oberwesel, blocking the Rhine Gorge passage for all ships! If the MS Alisa wouldn’t be able to sail through the Gorge on that day, it was not due her being too large or having too much draught. No chance of getting further that morning, the Johanna with the MS Alisa docked at Bingen and waited for things to come, i.e. the barge, having been cleared by police launch to proceed, to slowly sail past Bingen and clear the navigation channel.

 

 

To be continued.

 

 

notamermaid

 

P.S. In post #909 it should read KV Johanna and Johanna II (not KVB)

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by notamermaid
correction

[RDVIK2016]

3 hours ago, notamermaid said:

The extraordinary grand European journey of the MS Alisa hull part 2

 

Having found the great webcam at Bingen a while ago, which is just opposite Rüdesheim on the Rhine, I thought this would give me a good chance to try and spot the barge with the hull of the MS Alisa. The archived shots that you can retrieve are in ten minute intervalls and that means that most ships that sail past there are caught on camera, either small or clearly discernible. I was lucky and the Johanna was photographed in full view in great sunrise pink hue, I just added a bit of zoom to get her closer:

 

 

 

 

Wow, that's a great find! 

[Canal archive]

Superb Notamermaid I was getting just a little concerned as how this was going to be achieved, there is no way it could have been pushed - steering would be impossible, towing could at a pinch possibly work but breasting up like this is just about the best solution. I bet the barge captain is pleased he wouldn’t have expected this kind of job to drop into his lap well done him. 
Until this draught I didn’t realise the full extent of the reliance on river carrying in Europe, so not just for pleasure but real commerce as well. I hope these guys and gals get the recognition they deserve.

[notamermaid]

I will throw in a brief update at this point and get back to the MS Alisa later.

 

Kaub gauge, stable, now at 83cm. Forecast suggests minimal change for the worse and then a slight rise for tomorrow, afternoon on Friday reaching 84cm. Saturday minimal change with Sunday potentially falling below 80cm again.

 

Weather forecast: rain coming from France tomorrow, reaching the Upper Rhine valley on Saturday.

 

notamermaid

 

[Bowler Lady]

5 hours ago, notamermaid said:

 

 

Weather forecast: rain coming from France tomorrow, reaching the Upper Rhine valley on Saturday.

 

notamermaid

 

Do you know how much rain will be coming from long week of rain forecasted from 6th to the 12th and beyond depending on locale?

 

I would think that should bring up the gauge and keep it stable for the river cruiseships. Our AMA Siena cruise leaves on the 15th.

 

Carol

[tazlover]

7 minutes ago, Bowler Lady said:

Do you know how much rain will be coming from long week of rain forecasted from 6th to the 12th and beyond depending on locale?

 

I would think that should bring up the gauge and keep it stable for the river cruiseships. Our AMA Siena cruise leaves on the 15th.

 

Carol

And our AMA Serena Leaves Amsterdam on the 19th. Let’s hope it rains a bit

 

[debster818]

11 minutes ago, Bowler Lady said:

Do you know how much rain will be coming from long week of rain forecasted from 6th to the 12th and beyond depending on locale?

 

I would think that should bring up the gauge and keep it stable for the river cruiseships. Our AMA Siena cruise leaves on the 15th.

 

Carol

Also interested.  We sail on Uniworld SS Antionetee on 9/11 - 9-18

[notamermaid]

Just now, Bowler Lady said:

Do you know how much rain will be coming from long week of rain forecasted from 6th to the 12th and beyond depending on locale?

I tend not to look at weather forecasts further than four days out, they become tentative. But there are several weather sites that give relatively good info, like accuweather. I use German ones. I do not see much rain forecast for next week for the areas that matter. From Wednesday onwards it looks like drizzle to me. If we got widespread rain for two days all over the High Rhine, Lake Constance, Basel, the Upper Rhine and the Middle Rhine, as well as the Neckar and the Main rivers, that would be very useful. The main thing that needs to happen is moderate amounts over a long time, i.e. not a downpour of two hours. Downpours fill the rivers, widespread rain feeds the ground and raises the water table. We need moisture. That is the problem in autumn and this year it is extreme due to lack of rainfall in Spring. There does not seem to be much hope built into the computer modelling at Maxau gauge for rain raising the level substantially going into the weekend and next week:

 

Computer modelling at Kaub shows a similar picture, so neither Neckar nor Main have much additional water to give the Rhine. Both rivers join between Maxau and Kaub from the East, i.e. are right tributaries. The only good news is that 60cm and lower at Kaub (which we had in August) is still highly unlikely. While the Danube at Pfelling is a nerve-wrecking scenario, the Rhine is for the time being a little more stable, albeit on a slightly worrying low level.

 

I think we need to see if the weather forecast changes by Sunday and then basically wait how much rain actually comes down next week. River level modelling on Monday should give us better ideas what to expect but it still needs to be read with caution. Note that the river level forecast is updated every morning. Maxau that is, Kaub is done time stamp midnight, but I read it the next morning.

 

notamermaid

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by notamermaid
clarification

[notamermaid]

The extraordinary grand European journey of the MS Alisa hull part 3

 

While the news of the blockage occupied the local headlines and even made it into international news (the Rhine as a major transport artery being in focus already due to the low water) the MS Alisa was waiting in Bingen. By early evening the barge had passed and the river around Rüdesheim filled with ships. The backlog was mostly cleared within a few fours hours and just before 19.50 the Johanna with hull attached sailed away in the light of the evening sun, downstream into the Rhine Gore. This is her just before she left:

 

 

 

So would she actually sail all the way, or stop at a nearby dock? I could not be sure so waited to see where she may pop up again with a terrestrial signal. The following morning I had backtracked the signal but could not be sure the Johanna still had the MS Alisa attached. Again, ship spotters came to the rescue. They informed the community on the Danube transport from where I was able to follow her path. This time it was downstream from Cologne that the info came from. Yes, the MS Alisa was still there.

On the Lower Rhine it must have been a relatively fast run to the Netherlands as she is reported to have arrived at Gendt on 19 August.

 

Much of the info I have given here comes from the „Binnenschifferforum“ where they track hulls, Kaskotransport is the word. This is the page of the MS Alisa: https://www.binnenschifferforum.de/showthread.php?111874-Alisa-–-FGKS-Kasko

 

When the hull has been turned into a fully functioning ship she will be given a naming ceremony and deployed on the Rhine and Moselle. But who knows, she may return to Serbia for a brief visit on an itinerary some time. If you are interested, you can look up her sailing dates for next year already: https://www.phoenixreisen.com/?pm=uebersicht&source=widget&searchShipIds=1000252

 

When she is an official river cruise ship she will be given her own page within the section of passenger ships under A, the link to the full list: https://www.binnenschifferforum.de/forumdisplay.php?1059-Passagierschiffe-Fahrgastschiffe

 

So to conclude: a river cruise ship of 135m length made it through two shallows in extremely low water, one on the Danube and one on the Rhine, despite the size, when other ships needed to wait for the rivers to rise. She was sailed with much reduced draught, i.e .less than we know from other river cruise ships as she is only a hull at this time. The logistics are standard for this kind of transport but in a weird twist in this low water the hull stayed the same but the ship swap happened with the helper ships twice while you as a passenger needed to swap your „real“ ship twice on the Grand European. What she has not got compared to a fully functioning river cruise ship made the MS Alisa able to sail and have her extraordinary grand European journey.

 

notamermaid

 

[OwenSmith]

On 8/31/2022 at 11:38 PM, notamermaid said:

Just reading that makes me nervous (about 10cm clearance and scraping rocks and gravel).

As a passenger you only find out about it afterwards, they don't give people the chance to get off if they don't like the sound of the next stretch. And I've cruised with that little clearance and some scraping before, on the Danube in 2015. On that occasion APT brought a river pilot on board.

[notamermaid]

Sometimes it is better not to know I think... Must remember that about the pilot. I have only read about it three times so far.

 

On my river cruise on the Danube I actually asked about the sound that was near the door in our cabin. It sounded like a shower running for hours. She assured me it was not some technical fault in the bathroom next door or so, just the sound travelling up from under the ship. It varies depending on depth and nature of the river bed. Not having been on a ship overnight before I just did not know.

 

notamermaid

 

[Canal archive]

I think I’ve said it before but on our last Amsterdam to Budapest cruise at the port talk our Captain explained about the low water levels and asked if we would be happy for him to attempt the passage and mentioned the possibility of basically scrapping through, we all agreed I mean he’s not going to endanger his qualifications is he. We made it through with some scrapping but we went in convoy - commercial barge - Scenic space ship - commercial barge. Our Captain explained that we helped each other. Guess what we all slept through the whole experience.

[Host Jazzbeau]

31 minutes ago, Canal archive said:

I think I’ve said it before but on our last Amsterdam to Budapest cruise at the port talk our Captain explained about the low water levels and asked if we would be happy for him to attempt the passage and mentioned the possibility of basically scrapping through, we all agreed I mean he’s not going to endanger his qualifications is he. We made it through with some scrapping but we went in convoy - commercial barge - Scenic space ship - commercial barge. Our Captain explained that we helped each other. Guess what we all slept through the whole experience.

All except maybe those in certain Aquarium class cabins that were right over the scrape point!

[RDVIK2016]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

All except maybe those in certain Aquarium class cabins that were right over the scrape point!

I smile every time I hear the phrase "aquarium class".  I would actually like to try the a lower deck cabin sometime.  It would save money and we try to out of our rooms as much as possible anyway.