Did anyone complete a Land Tour through Princess this year?

[WaggesAZ]

Hi All, We currently are booked for AK cruise with a land tour starting on Wednesday evening when we check into a hotel in Fairbanks, the 2nd night at Denali Princess Lodge and the last night at Mount McKinley Princess Lodge before boarding the train to Whittier Saturday morning.  I have 2 dear friends who traveled this summer to AK and did a land tour, for the 3rd time and felt it was the biggest waste of their travel dollars yet.  They said the land portion was simply not even the same, especially with Denali being closed at MM 42.  They spent 5 days, not 3 and were completely disappointed.  Hoping to get feedback or experience.
 

We are considering flying to ANC and spending a few days exploring before heading to Whittier if we find this would be the better use of our $$.  If we change, it would give us nearly $4K to spend on lodging, car rental, excursions in the area, and the train to Whittier  so suggestions are welcome if you think alternate plans should be made.

[AKStafford]

I understand why someone would choose a land tour with the cruise line... But I would recommend doing the land portion on your own with a rental car. There's nothing offered on a "cruisetour" that you can't book independently, often for cheaper. Putting together your own trip allows you to see what you want, eat where you want, sleep where you want and means you won't be sitting on bus waiting for the lady that won't get out of the gift shop.

[Coral]

There were a lot of disappointed people this year on land tours. Princess had to close some of the lodges early due to lack of employees which shifted people, there was poor service, long dining times,  Denali not being fully open, etc....

 

I agree with @AKStafford - you may want to figure out what you want to do and rent a car (in advance) and do your own land trip. Plenty of people on this board who will help you.

[WaggesAZ]

Thank you both!!

[GTJ]

11 hours ago, WaggesAZ said:

We currently are booked for AK cruise with a land tour starting on Wednesday evening when we check into a hotel in Fairbanks, the 2nd night at Denali Princess Lodge and the last night at Mount McKinley Princess Lodge before boarding the train to Whittier Saturday morning. I have 2 dear friends who * * * were completely disappointed. Hoping to get feedback or experience.

Much depends on what one desires and enjoys personally. In my case, I like trains, cities, and national parks, while I dislike being on a tourist circuit seeing what I am told I "should" see. So some elements of your tour I would appreciate, but other parts I would not. Thus, my travel generally involves me planning what it is that I want to see, then putting together my own independent itinerary of buses, trains, and ferries (I cannot drive, so no rental vehicles).

 

The tour you have selected was planned by Princess Cruises for itself. That is, all the hotels and all the motorcoaches, are owned and operated by corporate affiliates of Princess Cruises, the goal being for Princess Cruises to control everything and try to capture every dollar spent for itself. The places that the tour visits were chosen exclusively to fulfill that goal.

 

In Fairbanks, you would be housed at the Riverside Lodge, next to an expressway and the airport, far away from the city center, with little within reasonable walking distance, and only sparse and inconvenient public transportation. Your visit to Fairbanks will likely be controlled in its entirety by Princess and its timetable for shuttling passengers between the city center and the lodge.

 

The Denali Lodge is in the heart of the tourist area outside the park, so there are stores to which you could walk. The lodge is not within reasonable walking distance of the park itself. Your visit to Denali will likely be controlled in its entirety by Princess and its timetable for shuttling passengers between the park and the lodge.

 

In Talkeetna, you would be housed at the Mount McKinley Lodge. This lodge is in an isolated area, beyond reasonable walking distance of Talkeetna itself. There is nothing at this location but the lodge and its facilities. Your visit to Talkeetna will likely be controlled in its entirety by Princess and its timetable for shuttling passengers between the city center and the lodge.

 

There would be a bus transfer between the Mount McKinley Lodge and the McKinley station of the Alaska Railroad, an isolated stop south of Talkeetna where Princess transfers its departing hotel guests to the train, and welcomes its newly-arriving guests from the train. The train itself, the McKinley Express, consists of cars that Princess charters for its guests from the Alaska Railroad. These Panorama Dome cars are single level, and are not the bilevel Ultra Dome cars that are frequently pictured in Princess advertisements. There is no lower level dining area (there is a separate café car that offers sandwiches, snacks, and beverages), nor is there any outdoor observation platform. These cars are otherwise used by the Alaska Railroad to shuttle cruise passengers between the airport in Anchorage and the port in Seward.

 

Your land tour will not include any visit to the city of Anchorage, other than just passing though on the train without stopping. Nor will your tour include a visit to Seward, including what many people regard as the most scenic portion of the Alaska Railroad, the route between Portage and Seward.

[Northern Aurora]

I saw our OP's post earlier today and wondered if anyone who actually had been on a Princess land tour this past summer would respond.

 

Just a few comments from someone who actually lives in Alaska ----  The distance referenced by "GTJ" between the McKinley View Princess Lodge and Talkeetna is certainly "beyond reasonable walking distance to Talkeetna itself."  Assuming no road construction delays it is a 45 minute to an hour drive.

 

I've always thought that visitors to Denali National Park who do not go into the park as far as Eielson Visitor's Center (mile 66) have cheated themselves from so much of the Denali experience.  The sloughing land issues, which have closed the road, are at mile 42-ish.  We haven't had much in terms of news updates regarding the project to bridge the problematic area so I am unclear when a realistic date will be released for the completion of the project.  But even when the issues at the Pretty Rocks area are addressed the fact remains that the road was closed at Pretty Rocks in August 2021 and there has been no road maintenance on the road past that area since the closure.  And remember that this single road in to DNP is a road in the Alaska Range, a major mountain range.

 

At times on this forum folks have praised Princess for owning their own lodges, but the situation  in Denali shows the problems of ownership -- they can't efficiently or quickly alter their long-standing land tour routes.

 

Alternatives to consider for interesting pre-cruise land travel include time on the Seward Peninsula.  Depending on the length of time for a pre-cruise land trip also research the Wrangell -- St. Elias National Park and Preserve.

 

 

[Coral]

4 hours ago, Northern Aurora said:

 

 

Alternatives to consider for interesting pre-cruise land travel include time on the Seward Peninsula.  Depending on the length of time for a pre-cruise land trip also research the Wrangell -- St. Elias National Park and Preserve.

 

 

Seward is simply amazing. If OP does their own trip - I would definitely include Seward.

[disneyochem]

Highly recommend DIY tour—of course, that’s all we’ve done but it is easy to plan a trip.  
 

If you know the dates already, book a rental NOW.  You can always cancel later if need be.

[GTJ]

11 hours ago, Coral said:

Seward is simply amazing. If OP does their own trip - I would definitely include Seward.

One of the challenges is that the vessel departs from Whittier, and there is no direct transportation between Seward and Whittier. In other words, Seward is not a waypoint on the way to Whittier. Planning for a Seward visit may require staying in Anchorage, and making a day trip to and from Seward (easily done by the Alaska Railroad). Princess does not offer the option to visit Seward, perhaps because its competitors use Seward as their port, and Princess does not want to do anything for their competitors, or make an investment in Seward.

Edited October 19, 2022 by GTJ

[Coral]

1 hour ago, GTJ said:

One of the challenges is that the vessel departs from Whittier, and there is no direct transportation between Seward and Whittier. In other words, Seward is not a waypoint on the way to Whittier. Planning for a Seward visit may require staying in Anchorage, and making a day trip to and from Seward (easily done by the Alaska Railroad). Princess does not offer the option to visit Seward, perhaps because its competitors use Seward as their port, and Princess does not want to do anything for their competitors, or make an investment in Seward.

I am well aware of this - I have been to Alaska a ton. One could easily do 3 days by taking the train in (or renting a car in Anchorage) and then returning to Anchorage and catch a shuttle to Whittier. Two days in Seward would be great and one day outside Anchorage area if you rent a car.

 

The 3 day land tours the cruise lines plan are not that great.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Coral

[Coral]

1 hour ago, GTJ said:

One of the challenges is that the vessel departs from Whittier, and there is no direct transportation between Seward and Whittier. In other words, Seward is not a waypoint on the way to Whittier. Planning for a Seward visit may require staying in Anchorage, and making a day trip to and from Seward (easily done by the Alaska Railroad). Princess does not offer the option to visit Seward, perhaps because its competitors use Seward as their port, and Princess does not want to do anything for their competitors, or make an investment in Seward.

FYI - Princess used to sail out of Seward. They built the Whittier terminal for the railway access to go direct to Denali. Princess and HAL in Alaska are run by the same group and HAL just started using Whittier this past year I believe. I don't think it has to do with competition. Regardless - Seward is amazing and the train ride between Seward and Anchorage is one of my favorite things to do in Alaska.

[GTJ]

1 hour ago, Coral said:

FYI - Princess used to sail out of Seward. They built the Whittier terminal for the railway access to go direct to Denali. Princess and HAL in Alaska are run by the same group and HAL just started using Whittier this past year I believe. I don't think it has to do with competition. Regardless - Seward is amazing and the train ride between Seward and Anchorage is one of my favorite things to do in Alaska.

Do you know when Princess began its operations at Whittier? I can recall the move by Holland America Line, which made sense for the line as it was a bit wasteful to operate separately. I do believe that Carnival would like to keep everyone else out of Whittier, and keep the port for itself exclusively (well, for itself and Alaska Marine Highway). Now the irony about railroad access is that the Grandview rail cars are based in Seward, and have to deadhead to Whittier to meet the Princess and Holland America vessels, before deadheading back to Seward afterwards. As for Seward, I think I enjoy the trip there more than the community itself. I would be satisfied within just a single day in Seward. Generally, I prefer larger cities, and I like trains, so given those biases my preference is probably reasonable. But Seward, and the trip there, is a significant sight, something that many people would enjoy, but Princess and Holland America deny to their passengers. It requires some effort to go there on one's own, but that effort is not substantial.

 

(Theoretically, one should be able to visit Seward, on the way to Whittier, by getting the Alaska Railroad train in the morning, from Anchorage at 6:45 a.m., arriving in Seward at 11:05 a.m.; after a very short stay, depart on the Alaska Cruise Transportation bus, from Seward at 2:30 p.m., arriving in Portage at 3:45 p.m.; then transfer to the Park Connection bus, from Portage at 4:30 p.m., arriving in Whittier at 5:00 p.m.; or transfer to the Alaska Railroad, from Portage at 5:25 p.m., arriving in Whittier at 6:05 p.m. But this plan does not allow for much time in Seward, requires a bit of waiting around at Portage--though one could use the time to visit the Alaska Wildlife Conservation Center--and everything needs to fit together precisely. Best just to make a day trip out of Anchorage, and not try to do both Seward and Whittier on the same day.)

[Coral]

Up until 2003, Princess used Seward. I think in 2004 - they built the pier and used Whittier.

 

CCL has allowed other lines to use Whittier. Just not RCCL/Celebrity. Though I doubt they asked.

 

Seward has a lot to offer for the size of their town. For me - Alaska is about being outside and not in a large town.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Coral

[Pluto_fan]

Thanks to everyone for the knowledgeable input on this.  We'll be sailing out of Whittier and I'm trying to figure out the best way to incorporate a visit to Seward beforehand, so this is all helpful to me! 

[GTJ]

22 hours ago, Coral said:

CCL has allowed other lines to use Whittier. Just not RCCL/Celebrity. Though I doubt they asked.

Don't forget that Silversea is also part of the Royal Caribbean Group, with two vessels sailing into Seward . . . combined with the two vessels of RCI/X, the Royal Caribbean Group has four vessels, compared to the five vessels being operated by Carnival (Princess and HAL). Next year NCLH is picking up, with two NCL vessels (Jewel and Spirit), plus a third vessel operated by RSSC, so maybe Carnival would not be so welcoming to NCLH if it wanted Whittier. (And who knows if Viking might try to increase their presence as well . . . right now they have one vessel on a 20-day cycle.)

[Coral]

36 minutes ago, GTJ said:

Don't forget that Silversea is also part of the Royal Caribbean Group, with two vessels sailing into Seward . . . combined with the two vessels of RCI/X, the Royal Caribbean Group has four vessels, compared to the five vessels being operated by Carnival (Princess and HAL). Next year NCLH is picking up, with two NCL vessels (Jewel and Spirit), plus a third vessel operated by RSSC, so maybe Carnival would not be so welcoming to NCLH if it wanted Whittier. (And who knows if Viking might try to increase their presence as well . . . right now they have one vessel on a 20-day cycle.)

Who cares???!!! Seward was getting crowded. Princess saw benefits to building a terminal in Whittier with the train and direct travel to Denali. Princess and HAL have more ships sailing Alaska than any other line. 

 

Both Whittier and Seward have benefits to them. I have sailed from both.

[GTJ]

9 minutes ago, Coral said:

Who cares???!!!

Those of us who are transportation analysts, and who earn their living doing so, do care about these matters. Those who are interested in cruise lines as a business do care about these things. Sure, there are some people who have no interest and are carefree, but there are many who are invested in this line of work and who do care.

 

11 minutes ago, Coral said:

Princess and HAL have more ships sailing Alaska than any other line.

As noted, they have five vessels sailing to and from Whittier. But RCG has four vessels, and is nipping at the heals of Carnival. And if you've looked at stock performance lately, you would see that RCG is performing better. It could overtake Carnival. And with NCLH now adding another vessel serving Seward in 2023, it, too, is within sight if Carnival. Things change. Carnival leads today, but maybe not tomorrow. Yes, it will be difficult for others to surpass, especially given everything that Carnival owns on land as well, but RCG could acquire Premier and catch up substantially rather quickly. We will see what tomorrow holds.

[Coral]

13 minutes ago, GTJ said:

Those of us who are transportation analysts, and who earn their living doing so, do care about these matters. Those who are interested in cruise lines as a business do care about these things. Sure, there are some people who have no interest and are carefree, but there are many who are invested in this line of work and who do care.

I think you are ignorant on many things. Who do you think owns Gray Lines in Alaska? How many hotels do you think Holland America Group own compared to RCCL? Do you know who indirectly owns the pier and the White Pass Train in Skagway? HAL/Princess own far more in Alaska than RCL ever will. They have long history in Alaska that goes back pretty far. Who sends more ships into Glacier Bay? They have some sort of historical rights to permits to Glacier Bay.

 

I have sailed on RCL to Alaska and it was embarrassing how they did Alaska.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Coral

[GTJ]

3 minutes ago, Coral said:

I think you are ignorant on many things. Who do you think owns Gray Lines in Alaska? How many hotels do you think Holland America Group own compared to RCCL? Do you know who indirectly owns the pier and the White Pass Train in Skagway? HAL/Princess own far more in Alaska than RCL ever will. They have long history in Alaska that goes back pretty far. Who sends more ships into Glacier Bay? They have some sort of historical rights to permits to Glacier Bay.

 

I have sailed on RCL to Alaska and it was embarrassing how they did Alaska.

"Gray Line" is a franchise dba name; the actual company name is Royal Hyway Tours. According to the last Metro Magazine survey of top 50 motorcoach fleets, Royal Hyway has 308 motorcoaches (FMCSA shows 431 total power units). The same survey reports that Premier Alaska Tours has a fleet of 95 motorcoaches (FMCSA shows 134 power units). So yes, even if RCG were to acquire Premier outright, Carnival would still be ahead . . . at present. And once upon a time Greyhound Lines was the undisputed fleet leader, but CUSA caught up, and with the latest round of service reductions I anticipate GL being in second place and heading downward . . .why do you think that FirstGroup disposed of the company?! Things don't remain static. Indeed, your example of Carnival's acquisition of WP&Y evidences that dynamic. Things will not remain static in Alaska, even with Carnival's present day dominance there. RCG has the potential to overtake Carnival. Maybe they will, maybe they will not. But to think that Carnival is invincible is fallacious. (For the record, I am a stockholder of Carnival, not RCG.)

[Coral]

1 minute ago, GTJ said:

"Gray Line" is a franchise dba name; the actual company name is Royal Hyway Tours. According to the last Metro Magazine survey of top 50 motorcoach fleets, Royal Hyway has 308 motorcoaches (FMCSA shows 431 total power units). The same survey reports that Premier 

But RCG doesn't own Premier.

 

We can only talk about what is currently known not what ifs in the future.

[GTJ]

Just now, Coral said:

But RCG doesn't own Premier.

 

We can only talk about what is currently known not what ifs in the future.

I said before that RCG could acquire Premier. If it wanted to do so. But for now it is following the FlixBus model. We can talk about what exists today. But we can also talk about what could be. What are the possibilities for Carnival's competitors? Are those possibilities reasonable? How might those competitors gain a leg up? It is by being open-minded as to the possibilities that one can expand and not simply staying put on a treadmill. I observe other lines expanding their operations into Seward for 2023, while I see Carnival staying put. Based on actions taken, on shareholder presentations, and otherwise, one can certainly speculate where all the lines may be heading in 2024 and beyond. I do like poking the issues, getting others to respond to speculation, if only to better inform myself. But don't think that by doing so, and not displaying all one's credentials openly, that such speculation derives from ignorance.

[Coral]

7 minutes ago, GTJ said:

I said before that RCG could acquire Premier. If it wanted to do so. But for now it is following the FlixBus model. We can talk about what exists today. But we can also talk about what could be. What are the possibilities for Carnival's competitors? Are those possibilities reasonable? How might those competitors gain a leg up? It is by being open-minded as to the possibilities that one can expand and not simply staying put on a treadmill. I observe other lines expanding their operations into Seward for 2023, while I see Carnival staying put. Based on actions taken, on shareholder presentations, and otherwise, one can certainly speculate where all the lines may be heading in 2024 and beyond. I do like poking the issues, getting others to respond to speculation, if only to better inform myself. But don't think that by doing so, and not displaying all one's credentials openly, that such speculation derives from ignorance.

You were obviously ignorant about Princess sailing out of Seward previously. 

 

Just remember - some of us have spent quite a bit of time in Alaska and understand the cruising industry also.

[Cali Viajera]

To the OP's original question: we did a land tour from Fairbanks to Denali, Mt. McKinley to Kenai. Our first time and because of the distances, I took the easy way and did the Princess land tour. Yes, the lodges with the exception of Denali are remote. However, everything was taken care of and we could just 'coast' without worry until the cruise. There is a lot of construction on the highways and long delays are common, so factor that in. Either way, land tour or DIY, seeing the interior will open your eyes into the incredible frontier that is Alaska.

[WaggesAZ]

On 10/28/2022 at 8:44 AM, Cali Viajera said:

To the OP's original question: we did a land tour from Fairbanks to Denali, Mt. McKinley to Kenai. Our first time and because of the distances, I took the easy way and did the Princess land tour. Yes, the lodges with the exception of Denali are remote. However, everything was taken care of and we could just 'coast' without worry until the cruise. There is a lot of construction on the highways and long delays are common, so factor that in. Either way, land tour or DIY, seeing the interior will open your eyes into the incredible frontier that is Alaska.

Thank you!!