Rhine water levels 2023 and similar topics

[notamermaid]

24 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

But it does take away from the pleasure of a cruise.

I agree. It works really well, most of the time, but also seeing that in a ship swap you normally miss the scenic sailing of the Rhine Gorge, it does impact the cruise. A passenger should always be informed about that possibility in my opinion. And reimbursed for it. What I object to is making the ship swap so long that it cuts out cruising a lot, meaning ports can only be reached by coach, i.e. going to Koblenz, using a coach, getting on the other ship at Rüdesheim I find acceptable as long as the passenger knows of this potential situation before he embarks. Going from Worms to Rüdesheim, returning, going to Cologne by coach the next day to swap to the ship, is not my idea of a cruise. This is what has been done by Viking - it may have been done by others since that awful autumn in 2018 - but in that year when things came to a standstill river cruises were actually cancelled.

 

Personally, I do not like to think back to that year. Apart from seeing "my" river decline dramatically (shocking somewhat), I answered so many question of river cruisers that felt uninformed, bewildered, often completely oblivious to such a scenario being possible and left in the dark (in their opinion) by the cruise company. Not fun. In my opinion, information policy has really improved since then. And more travel websites are mentioning the topic when it arises. People are more aware. I do not like the alarmist headlines one can read occasionally but it certainly appears that people prefer to be informed beforehand rather than meet the problem when it arises, i.e. when they get to the ship in Amsterdam and realize it is a different one as the previous passengers did a ship swap (or similar scenario). That is the impression I got in 2018 and it has remained so since.

 

notamermaid

 

[Rikboatman]

My wife and I missed a large part of the middle Rhine in 2013 due to the river being flooded. We are hoping to see all of it when we return for a 15 day cruise in October.

[mjz]

How do the chances of rain look along the Rhine through the end of the month?  In looking at two different apps (weather.com and the weather app on my iPhone), it differs.  I'm seeing some chances for rain along with cooler temps.  We're sailing from Basel to Amsterdam starting on July 29th.

Edited July 19, 2023 by mjz

[notamermaid]

3 minutes ago, mjz said:

How do the chances of rain look along the Rhine through the end of the month?

I would have a look at https://www.wetteronline.de/

Go to "Vorhersage". Or type in a major town in the search field at the top. The four day forecast is fairly reliable, eight day is also usually okay.

 

The forecast - computer modelling - for Maxau gauge (at Karlsruhe) suggests a reaction to rain but only in so far as that the Upper Rhine valley should be able to retain the level. If no rain was predicted the level would fall.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, Rikboatman said:

My wife and I missed a large part of the middle Rhine in 2013 due to the river being flooded. We are hoping to see all of it when we return for a 15 day cruise in October.

Welcome to Cruisecritic.

 

What a pity. I hope you will have a great time this autumn.

 

The floods of 2013 were worse on the Danube and Elbe than on the Rhine. Still, it was bad enough here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_European_floods

Around Maxau river traffic was halted for several days. At Kaub subsequently for a similar length of time.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Kristelle]

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

rather than meet the problem when it arises, i.e. when they get to the ship in Amsterdam and realize it is a different one as the previous passengers did a ship swap (or similar scenario).

 

 

does this really matter to people?

 

the ships of a company are all pretty similar, arent they?

 

we are booked to travel on Scenic Jade - if we get to Amsterdam and find we were sailing on Scenic XYZ instead,  would that make any difference?

 

 

[notamermaid]

4 minutes ago, Kristelle said:

 

 

does this really matter to people?

 

the ships of a company are all pretty similar, arent they?

 

we are booked to travel on Scenic Jade - if we get to Amsterdam and find we were sailing on Scenic XYZ instead,  would that make any difference?

 

 

Not sure that it matters to people, some will adjust faster than others, should not be a big deal. I admit it is not the best example. Ships sailing that are meant to swap if the need arises are almost identical when looking at the Viking fleet - fun quote on CC is "all that differs is the painting in the lobby" - and most likely very similar if not almost identical with other companies' fleets. You will of course deal with a different captain and his (maritime) crew but as you do not know the employees on your original ship this should not matter to you either. Unless you are unlucky or unhappy with something and start wondering what could have been...

 

notamermaid

 

[CastleCritic]

24 minutes ago, Kristelle said:

 

 

does this really matter to people?

 

the ships of a company are all pretty similar, arent they?

 

we are booked to travel on Scenic Jade - if we get to Amsterdam and find we were sailing on Scenic XYZ instead,  would that make any difference?

 

 

Pretty similar,  you blindfolded me and walked me through the side door on a 135M or 110m AmaWaterways ship and I could walk to reception, the lounge, the restaurant, and probably the sun deck and tell you of a ship of that type that Ive sailed on just by figuring out the minor (or major in the case of AMAMagna) differences between them.. And I could find A room on any of the 3 decks, just might not be the one Im staying in 🙂

 

Some people really dont like packing/unpacking and not all the lines send the staff with you when you transfer which messes up the flow of the vacation at least a little.

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, Kristelle said:

does this really matter to people?

the ships of a company are all pretty similar, arent they?

we are booked to travel on Scenic Jade - if we get to Amsterdam and find we were sailing on Scenic XYZ instead,  would that make any difference?

It would matter when you arrive at the embarkation port and are searching for Scenic Jade but Jade isn't there.  [If you hadn't been notified by the cruise line.]  Especially in Amsterdam because there can be so many river ships rafted up that it is hard to find your ship even if it is there!

 

In terms of the cruise experience, it would matter more on some cruise lines than others.  As @notamermaid noted, Viking ships are so identical that it really wouldn't matter.  But AMA has ships of different generations that are different in layout, and this is especially important as the cabin variations are different (sizes, availability of the higher category cabin types, French balcony vs Twin balcony).  Uniworld ships are decorated differently [always over the top, but different decor].  This is one reason that Viking ship swaps go more smoothly than any other line.

[notamermaid]

Just a brief addition to the topic of ship swaps for those new to this. Standard swap is normally Rüdesheim and Koblenz, meaning the ships remain in those ports for the hours needed to complete the swap. The section of river between those two is basically the Rhine Gorge. It is considered the most scenic part of the river. This area during a ship swap you will either see from a coach or on an excursion boat hired or part-hired (then you share with other tourists) by your cruise company.

 

notamermaid

 

[Kristelle]

4 hours ago, CastleCritic said:

Some people really dont like packing/unpacking and not all the lines send the staff with you when you transfer which messes up the flow of the vacation at least a little.

 

 

Oh yes, I get the inconvenience of swapping ships mid trip.

 

I meant it wouldn't matter if your whole trip from the beginning was on a different ship to the one expected 

[Kristelle]

3 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

It would matter when you arrive at the embarkation port and are searching for Scenic Jade but Jade isn't there.  [If you hadn't been notified by the cruise line.]  Especially in Amsterdam because there can be so many river ships rafted up that it is hard to find your ship even if it is there

 

 Well, yes, that would be tricky.

 

I was assuming company would send passengers a message to notify them

[notamermaid]

8 hours ago, Kristelle said:

 

 Well, yes, that would be tricky.

 

I was assuming company would send passengers a message to notify them

Yes, all in all this works from what we have read on CC in the past. I remember the odd case when people worried about not being able to get a notification as they would be on a week long land trip before the cruise. But that is not a typical scenario of course.

 

I would say that in this day and age of technology it is very wise to keep an eye on what may happen at the embarkation port and have the ship's phone number ready at all times if one has not arranged a transfer to the ship with the river cruise company - or indeed the river cruise company contact number. Easy to do.

 

Forgot to mention in the previous post that if you do the Amsterdam to Budapest itinerary you may have to go through the ship swap twice, the Danube one involves Straubing and Vilshofen, or Regensburg and Passau or a different combination of the towns on either side of the shallow stretch in which is the Pfelling gauge.

 

Kaub gauge at 109cm.

 

notamermaid

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by notamermaid

[pully8]

Ship swaps are perhaps preferable to long bus trips and random hotels and meals.

River levels and other interruptions cannot be avoided but how the provider manages the issue matters.

And yes ships do differ as has been said.

Some have different price points and inclusions.

Some have larger passenger numbers and smaller state rooms.

As long as people are aware and willing to take the risk all good. 

Perhaps there is a market for mystery trips. 

[MamaMags123]

16 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I would have a look at https://www.wetteronline.de/

Go to "Vorhersage". Or type in a major town in the search field at the top. The four day forecast is fairly reliable, eight day is also usually okay.

This is so helpful. Thank you! 🌦️🌈⛅️☀️

[notamermaid]

42 minutes ago, MamaMags123 said:

This is so helpful. Thank you! 🌦️🌈⛅️☀️

Oh good. 🙂 I find the website relatively straight forward with all the icons making it somewhat easier when one does not speak German much. If one can bear all the adds about loosing tummy fat, etc. (not sure what you get in the US with your cookies). 😉

 

notamermaid

 

 

[sharkster77]

Amen to what has been said---I would prefer to lose a morning to a ship swap than have my cruise become an expensive bus trip!  Small inconvenience vs. huge annoyance.

[MamaMags123]

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Oh good. 🙂 I find the website relatively straight forward with all the icons making it somewhat easier when one does not speak German much. If one can bear all the adds about loosing tummy fat, etc. (not sure what you get in the US with your cookies). 😉

 

notamermaid

 

 

On my iPhone I can request a translated version of the page 👍. My ads are from Temu and gambling sites. They must know my tummy fat is a lost cause. 😂 

[Saberk9]

I find that I am putting myself through an emotional roller coaster watching the Kaub levels.  Agreed, grateful for Viking ship swaps and know I (nor any of us) can control the water level. Just such a disappointment that the occurrence could be at the most scenic portion of the Rhine. Otherwise, the swap wouldn't even be a concern for John and I (actually me....he is cool with no matter what. lol)  We should be sailing that portion of the river July 29th (Koblenz & Rudesheim) and the current projected water levels look extremely low. From what I can make of the forecast, the 28th is well below 80cm.  But, nothing good happens when you think the worst. So positive vibes. Blessed to be having this opportunity and need to be more focused on packing.  lol. Sunday will be here before I know it. So now I need to determine is it "shorts" weather for this Florida girl or warmer clothes.  😊

[ak1004]

Sorry if this was addressed before, it's a pretty long topic, but why people are so focused on Kaub specifically? We will be doing Basel-Amsterdam with Uniworld on Sep.2, didn't see Kaub as one of the ports.

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

Sorry if this was addressed before, it's a pretty long topic, but why people are so focused on Kaub specifically? We will be doing Basel-Amsterdam with Uniworld on Sep.2, didn't see Kaub as one of the ports.

You are right, Kaub is not a river cruise port as such. It is a small place that does have an excursion boat landing stage that is suitable for river cruise ships I think.

 

Kaub gauge is the marker for the shipping industry meaning it gives the river traffic the info how deep the navigation channel is in that area of the Rhine (there is a calculation that refers to another gauge but that is beside the point for our purposes here). On the "pegel online" map it looks like this:

 

The area has the shallowest navigation channel of the Rhine. I need to clarify that the Rhine Gorge is not that shallow in its whole stretch and the shallow channel actually starts before Rüdesheim. Sorry, I was not precise enough. At Mainz it is 210cm, at Kaub it is 190cm, at Koblenz it is 210cm. That is the basis for the calculation for river traffic.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

 

 

[notamermaid]

3 hours ago, Saberk9 said:

We should be sailing that portion of the river July 29th (Koblenz & Rudesheim) and the current projected water levels look extremely low. From what I can make of the forecast, the 28th is well below 80cm.

Not sure where you looked. From what I can see on the long range forecast on "Elwis", the probability for 80cm is there but very low, i.e. the level is most likely to stay between 88cm and 91cm on the 24th. From the 27th the situation looks to improve well.

 

notamermaid

 

[Saberk9]

56 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Not sure where you looked. From what I can see on the long range forecast on "Elwis", the probability for 80cm is there but very low, i.e. the level is most likely to stay between 88cm and 91cm on the 24th. From the 27th the situation looks to improve well.

 

notamermaid

 

Rhineforcast.com was what I looked at. I prefer your narrative. Perhaps I should stay in my lane and let those of you that are more experienced report of this.  lol. Thanks so much Notamermaid for your followup. 

[notamermaid]

A bit of statistics following my comment in post #369 about the long low water period at Kaub. According to contargo.net in 2016 there were 23 days with figures lower than 80cm. In 2018, I have counted the days shown in the historical files (a different website). There were 113 days with a level of 80cm or lower! In 2020, the same website shows only one day. In 2022, according to contargo.net, there were 43 days with a level of 80cm or longer.

 

And in that year of the bad flooding, 2013? The level did not fall below 100cm for a single day.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

22 minutes ago, Saberk9 said:

Rhineforcast.com was what I looked at. I prefer your narrative. Perhaps I should stay in my lane and let those of you that are more experienced report of this.  lol. Thanks so much Notamermaid for your followup. 

Not too worry, the website looks interesting and accurate I would say. Elwis has just a different and more detailed way of showing it, i.e. it shows a range and probability chart as well as the standard forecast table. Thanks for mentioning that site.

 

notamermaid