Danube water levels 2023 and similar topics - plus tips and info

[notamermaid]

19 hours ago, rcaruso said:

Yes the Edgir is the sister ship to the Gymir, so it makes sense that if one goes the other one does too.  There are two Viking ships at Regensburg and the Viking Var made it close to Regensburg but turned around and is in Vilshofen now.  Watching Cruise Mapper is like watching the Real Housewives Bravo shows, LOL. We leave for Budapest in a few hours.

So ships did use what I call a window of opportunity. The level is down to 270cm. A windy day, storm warnings for the coasts. No warning for Bavaria yet. Rain going through the valley (Regensburg into Bavarian Forest and Czech Republic). Could be a bit of water for the Elbe.

 

Thank you for checking the ship movements.

 

Have a great time on the rivers.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Pfelling gauge at 283cm. Running above the forecast a little. A good sign? I doubt it, the forecast at Kelheim does not indicate high volumes of water. Happy to be proven otherwise.

 

notamermaid

 

[kldough]

Booked to sail aboard the Avalon View westbound from Budapest in mid-August, now tracking her off her itinerary and headed for Amsterdam after laying up a few days in Regensburg.  Assume she has swapped with a sister ship due to low water.  Does anyone know which ship? And any additional info is welcomed.  Thanks,

 

KD

[CruiseIreland]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:37 AM, notamermaid said:

Unfortunately I need to agree.

 

notamermaid

 

I was not looking for speculation, just pointers on what the gauge reading at Pfelling means and how to understand any other indicators. 

[notamermaid]

13 hours ago, CruiseIreland said:

I was not looking for speculation, just pointers on what the gauge reading at Pfelling means and how to understand any other indicators. 

Perhaps a misunderstanding then. Sorry. Every gauge is its own thing, so we need to calculate. At Pfelling 290cm has been given by an authorities' spokesperson as the figure that can cause problems for passage for the large river cruise ships. The river depth and the navigation channel depth are different figures, so for ships it means that at 290cm the navigation channel has a depth of 190cm - basically. The river is not regulated by a lock there, meaning we have no effect of a dam that could keep the level high enough. There exists no long range forecast, so we need to look at computer modelling further upstream to what may happen further than 36 hours into the future. A factor that makes the situation more unpredictable are the two locks upstream from Pfelling. Water can be retained and take a few centimetres off the reading at Pfelling. A captain needs to calculate the time needed to get through the shallow section and upstream and downstream direction make a difference, too. All factors thrown into the mix - including draft of the indivdual ship - make the decision for or against sailing. This decision could literally be made just a few hours before you are due to sail the stretch of river.

 

Pfelling gauge at 265cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[CruiseIreland]

Many thanks. So, Pfelling is the only gauge that we look at as the rest of the river is more or less regulated via locks? As you say Pfelling is at 265, are there some ships getting through but others not, at this level?

Thank you for taking the time to explain this to a newbie! Ken 

[notamermaid]

Brief answer for the time being:

30 minutes ago, CruiseIreland said:

So, Pfelling is the only gauge that we look at as the rest of the river is more or less regulated via locks?

Not the only one, but the "worst" one.

 

31 minutes ago, CruiseIreland said:

As you say Pfelling is at 265, are there some ships getting through but others not, at this level?

Yes, some ships can manage. Barges, tankers at reduced load. Smaller river cruise ships. Try using a tracker. marinetraffic.com, via the search field find the Amadeus Princess. That is this one, info from company website: https://www.amadeus-rivercruises.com/our-amadeus-fleet/detail/amadeus-princess.html

When the ship info pops up on marinetraffic, go on past track. You can always see a 24 hour track (if the signal is strong enough).

 

She is currently in the shallow section upstream from Deggendorf, sailing towards Bogen (where the Pfelling gauge is located):

 

When she has made it past Straubing she will have successfully completed the journey through the shallow section.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

On the other side of the Pfelling gauge I happened to spot the "Spirit of the Danube" when preparing the screenshot above. She is at Straubing. What makes it highly interesting is the fact that she is 135m long. Will she sail through the shallow stretch past the lock at Straubing and onto Vilshofen? Again, one can track that ship to find out. Not all 135m ships are the same so it will vary in what the respective captain judges to be the safe figure for passage past Pfelling.

 

notamermaid

 

[reeves35]

Spoke with a cruise ship captain about water depths a few years ago and he said squat is also a factor to consider in shallower waters.  As the ship increases speed, it squats down into the water further.  For a cruise ship, the squat is significant, up to a metre, but for a river ship I'd think squat at speed could be up to 15-20cms so in areas with low water levels, the captain may choose to sail at a much lower speed to reduce the effect of squat.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Reading that quickly, I thought you wrote that the captain "said squat" and I thought 'how unhelpful'...  🤣

[reeves35]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Reading that quickly, I thought you wrote that the captain "said squat" and I thought 'how unhelpful'...  🤣

That'd be diddly squat

[notamermaid]

10 hours ago, reeves35 said:

Spoke with a cruise ship captain about water depths a few years ago and he said squat is also a factor to consider in shallower waters. 

Thanks. That reminds me, I saw that explained in a great drawing, i.e. of a ship set in water and what the physics are, some time ago.

 

So, all the parametres worked for the Spirit of the Danube. She successfully completed the passage from Straubing to Passau during the night!

 

Great news, and confirmation that modern 135m river cruise ships - at least this one - can sail past Pfelling at a figure of 268cm. Again, it is an individual decision and it does not mean that a similar ship or even the Spirit of the Danube will do the upstream passage at that figure.

 

Pfelling at 266cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Found the webpage again - "squat" and all the other terms: https://www.viadonau.org/en/economy/online-services/calculation-of-the-draught-loaded/

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Pfelling gauge at 265cm.

 

In other news: the Danube water has warmed up a lot. When this happens for a long period it puts a strain on fish. For now, the problem that has arisen is at the nuclear power plants in Budapest. The water is too warm for cooling the plant so electricity generation has been reduced.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[WSR]

Could someone verify, is Pfelling gauge presently at 283cm? 

Thank you.

[notamermaid]

Definitely up, now at 288cm:

 

notamermaid

 

[CDNPolar]

We are sailing from Bucharest to Budapest embarking Viking Ullur on August 16th.

 

We understand the possibility of being bussed around a bridge, or potentially moved from hotel to hotel depending on the severity of the water levels.

 

What we don't know is this:  Is there anyway to have an advance crystal ball view of what the water levels are going to be in one month's time?

 

If the water levels are extremely low because of all this heat, what happens?

How does Viking handle this kind of situation?

 

We have only done one river cruise before and all went to plan.  We just want to be ready with our 'expectations' in check.

 

 

[notamermaid]

On 7/18/2023 at 5:37 PM, CruiseIreland said:

So, Pfelling is the only gauge that we look at as the rest of the river is more or less regulated via locks?

A slightly longer answer now. Pfelling has the shallowest navigation channel upstream from Budapest so that is where the problems first occur. Other sections of the river are free-flowing, too but are not or hardly ever or only sometimes affected. The Danube knee - the pronounced bend in the river before Budapest - is a potential problem area. This results in ships stopping in Komarno and not sailing into Budapest (downstream direction). Not sure what it is like coming into Budapest upstream.

 

Here are the free-flowing and the impounded sections in a drawing: https://www.viadonau.org/en/economy/the-danube-transport-axis/navigability

 

Here is the graph for Budapest again:

Taken from: https://www.hydroinfo.hu/en/hidelo/hidelo_graf_duna.html

 

notamermaid

 

 

[UDChE89]

5 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

We are sailing from Bucharest to Budapest embarking Viking Ullur on August 16th.

 

We understand the possibility of being bussed around a bridge, or potentially moved from hotel to hotel depending on the severity of the water levels.

 

What we don't know is this:  Is there anyway to have an advance crystal ball view of what the water levels are going to be in one month's time?

 

If the water levels are extremely low because of all this heat, what happens?

How does Viking handle this kind of situation?

 

We have only done one river cruise before and all went to plan.  We just want to be ready with our 'expectations' in check.

 

 

I took a cruise a week later than yours last year.  Didn’t go all the way down to Romania but we did go as far as the Iron Gates in Serbia.  There were no water issues on that portion of the Danube at that time.  All the water issues were further upstream.

 

I would expect that if there’s water issues, they’ll find a spot to park the boat and either switch you to another boat or transfer you.  If you look at last year’s thread, I think you’ll find there’s very little discussion about issues past Budapest because either there aren’t any or it’s just not that popular and area to cruise.

[CruiseIreland]

4 hours ago, notamermaid said:

A slightly longer answer now. Pfelling has the shallowest navigation channel upstream from Budapest so that is where the problems first occur. Other sections of the river are free-flowing, too but are not or hardly ever or only sometimes affected. The Danube knee - the pronounced bend in the river before Budapest - is a potential problem area. This results in ships stopping in Komarno and not sailing into Budapest (downstream direction). Not sure what it is like coming into Budapest upstream.

 

Here are the free-flowing and the impounded sections in a drawing: https://www.viadonau.org/en/economy/the-danube-transport-axis/navigability

 

Here is the graph for Budapest again:

Taken from: https://www.hydroinfo.hu/en/hidelo/hidelo_graf_duna.html

 

notamermaid

 

 

I appreciate you taking the time to post this. Very interesting. 👍 

[notamermaid]

After the half decent plateau yesterday, the level at Pfelling has gone down to 278cm.

 

I dunno, would it be better to go for smaller ships again, like 125m or shorter? The few centimetres advantage in draught that may give makes the difference between sailing and no sailing in these conditions. Just wondering... Remember, there used to be ships of varying lengths, before they became standard hulls of 135m basically. 95, 105, 110, 123, 126.7 ("my" ship the MS Belvedere) are all measurements you can read in the fleets built before 2020. The modern ships of 135m are claimed by the companies to have adjusted hulls, but in the end they still struggle. Will get back to some statistics on the old ships another day.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

A different subject for a pleasant Sunday watch. We talked about Neuschwanstein Castle in February. Here is a documentary about the man and the castle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPcLxQL3bA

 

 

notamermaid

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

5 hours ago, notamermaid said:

A different subject for a pleasant Sunday watch. We talked about Neuschwanstein Castle in February. Here is a documentary about the man and the castle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPcLxQL3bA

 

 

notamermaid

 

You mean it wasn't Walt Disney???  🤣

[notamermaid]

4 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

You mean it wasn't Walt Disney???  🤣

LOL. That other man with that other castle. Fun to think that the fairy castle is modelled on essentially a folly-looking (castle) as I see it which we actually call a palace (Schloss Neuwschwanstein) as it is a royal residence, which is modelled on actual castles.

 

Pfelling gauge stable at 277cm. Trend is in the wrong direction for tomorrow, 270cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[Daisi]

I keep checking the weather app, looks like Nuremburg is expecting rain next week...hopefully enough!