Expedition Great Lakes - what to wear

[kchand]

I have not seen this answered.  When you are on the Zodiac or Kayaks. What kind of outerwear do you have on?

[OneSixtyToOne]

1 hour ago, kchand said:

I have not seen this answered.  When you are on the Zodiac or Kayaks. What kind of outerwear do you have on?

I believe I’ve read that the kayak outerwear gear is provided. Not sure about the Zodiacs

 

We have the same question for our Chilean Fjord expedition later this year. We are wondering what we need to pack in the way of waterproof pants, footwear, etc.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, kchand said:

I have not seen this answered.  When you are on the Zodiac or Kayaks. What kind of outerwear do you have on?

 

Haven't been on the Expedition ships, but in 20+ yrs of using RIB's, nobody left the ship in a RIB, unless they were wearing a survival suit. I expect Viking would be the same, as without being issued a survival suit I would not use a RIB.

[CurlerRob]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Haven't been on the Expedition ships, but in 20+ yrs of using RIB's, nobody left the ship in a RIB, unless they were wearing a survival suit. I expect Viking would be the same, as without being issued a survival suit I would not use a RIB.

 

Andy, I may not understand what you mean by survival suit, but many of the pictures I've seen from the Expedition board and FB show pax in their Viking jackets, issued pants, boots and life vests (in Antarctica), rather than what I consider a survival suit (one piece, fully sealable). This is on shore and on the Zodiacs.

 

I have seen one picture from a friend of Octantis in Lake Erie near Point Pelee. Pax on the Zodiac had various jackets on - they had the appearance of simply personal wear (plus the mandatory life vests of course). I'd venture to guess that the requirements are mostly limited to the required life vest in the Great Lakes.

 

To the OP - there may be required wear for the kayaks (or the Zodiacs) so you should ask Viking. If not, on the Great Lakes, I'd recommend outerwear appropriate for the temperature, with a waterproof shell over top. It only takes small waves to get you very damp in a Zodiac ... 🍺🥌

[ropomo]

We were just on Polaris in the Great Lakes. The only thing mandatory is the life jacket in your stateroom. Our experience on 4 zodiac outings was that it all depends on the weather. There were some sunny very warm days where shorts and a t-shirt were sufficient. Other days when it was a little cooler, a light jacket was fine (I was fine on those days with a long sleeve shirt). The top speed of the zodiac is about 17 knots when fully loaded, but most of the time was spent putting around near the shoreline observing things. It really depends on whether you are cold or warm natured. In any case, the outings only last about an hour, so regardless you won't be uncomfortable too long.

[Heidi13]

9 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

 

Andy, I may not understand what you mean by survival suit, but many of the pictures I've seen from the Expedition board and FB show pax in their Viking jackets, issued pants, boots and life vests (in Antarctica), rather than what I consider a survival suit (one piece, fully sealable). This is on shore and on the Zodiacs.

 

I have seen one picture from a friend of Octantis in Lake Erie near Point Pelee. Pax on the Zodiac had various jackets on - they had the appearance of simply personal wear (plus the mandatory life vests of course). I'd venture to guess that the requirements are mostly limited to the required life vest in the Great Lakes.

 

To the OP - there may be required wear for the kayaks (or the Zodiacs) so you should ask Viking. If not, on the Great Lakes, I'd recommend outerwear appropriate for the temperature, with a waterproof shell over top. It only takes small waves to get you very damp in a Zodiac ... 🍺🥌

 

Rob - we used the 1-piece Mustang suits with velcro at each wrist and ankle. They weren't SOLAS lifejackets standards, only PFD's. These suits are standard on all the RIB type whale watching boats, on the West Coast.

 

What is the average water temperature on the Great Lakes, I suspect probably comparable to the 50's to 60's we experience.  

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, ropomo said:

We were just on Polaris in the Great Lakes. The only thing mandatory is the life jacket in your stateroom. Our experience on 4 zodiac outings was that it all depends on the weather. There were some sunny very warm days where shorts and a t-shirt were sufficient. Other days when it was a little cooler, a light jacket was fine (I was fine on those days with a long sleeve shirt). The top speed of the zodiac is about 17 knots when fully loaded, but most of the time was spent putting around near the shoreline observing things. It really depends on whether you are cold or warm natured. In any case, the outings only last about an hour, so regardless you won't be uncomfortable too long.

 

In accordance with our survival training, when operating in a RIB, the choice of attire is based on both water temperature and air temperature. Even on warm summer days, when operating in colder waters, it is recommended to have a survival style suit to protect against shock should you enter the water.

 

Yes, it's hot and sweaty wearing them, but ending up in cold water with shorts and t-shirt would provide a fairly short survival window.

[CurlerRob]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Rob - we used the 1-piece Mustang suits with velcro at each wrist and ankle. They weren't SOLAS lifejackets standards, only PFD's. These suits are standard on all the RIB type whale watching boats, on the West Coast.

 

What is the average water temperature on the Great Lakes, I suspect probably comparable to the 50's to 60's we experience.  

 

Yes, the 1-piece Mustangs are what we've always had on RIB usage anywhere.

 

I'm not surprised about the lack of them for the Great Lakes. I don't know the average temps, but summer water temps will hit highs in the mid-70's on Ontario, Erie and southern Huron. (Superior is a whole other world, as documented by Gordy Lightfoot!). 

 

Your post triggered my memory that even in Antarctica, there does not appear to be usage of full suits. This pic appears to show pax with the issued Viking jacket, separate pants and boots as well as flotation - but it may mean more to your professional eye than my amateur one.

 

Perhaps one of the experienced pax from Octantis or Polaris down south can advise ... I would not want to be over the side in this attire. Cheers! 🍺🥌

 

[longterm]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

In accordance with our survival training, when operating in a RIB, the choice of attire is based on both water temperature and air temperature. Even on warm summer days, when operating in colder waters, it is recommended to have a survival style suit to protect against shock should you enter the water.

 

Yes, it's hot and sweaty wearing them, but ending up in cold water with shorts and t-shirt would provide a fairly short survival window.

Andy, a mankini is NOT suitable wear.

[OneSixtyToOne]

I came across a video series from a passenger on an Antarctic expedition that goes into detail about the clothing used for the different excursions. Kayak gear issued is different from the RIB. He also shows how the Kayaks work.

Day 1: https://youtu.be/y0cRTg3P2eI

Day 2: https://youtu.be/tW65YKL7EN4

Day 3: https://youtu.be/WI6MB2CeOtw

 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by OneSixtyToOne

[Frenchberet]

7 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

 

Yes, the 1-piece Mustangs are what we've always had on RIB usage anywhere.

 

I'm not surprised about the lack of them for the Great Lakes. I don't know the average temps, but summer water temps will hit highs in the mid-70's on Ontario, Erie and southern Huron. (Superior is a whole other world, as documented by Gordy Lightfoot!). 

 

Your post triggered my memory that even in Antarctica, there does not appear to be usage of full suits. This pic appears to show pax with the issued Viking jacket, separate pants and boots as well as flotation - but it may mean more to your professional eye than my amateur one.

 

Perhaps one of the experienced pax from Octantis or Polaris down south can advise ... I would not want to be over the side in this attire. Cheers! 🍺🥌

 

We did Viking’s Antarctic Explorer on Octantis in February 2023.  On all the landings, RIBs, and special ops boats we wore the red Viking jacket, liner jacket, waterproof pants, and waterproof boots as pictured above.  There was also a black life preserver around your neck, secured with straps around the waist.  Everything was provided by Viking and we got to keep the red jackets and liner.  We brought our own hats, sunglasses/goggles, and gloves.  We wore long underwear and jeans under the pants and a long underwear top and long sleeved shirt under the jacket liner.  It took about 20 minutes to “suit up”.  The temperature in Antarctica was around 30F (I don’t recall the water temperature but I wouldn’t have wanted to fall in!).  

When we did the Midnight Sun cruise in Norway in July we wore the one piece survival suits for the optional RIB excursions (provided by the contractor).  

[Heidi13]

8 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

 

Yes, the 1-piece Mustangs are what we've always had on RIB usage anywhere.

 

I'm not surprised about the lack of them for the Great Lakes. I don't know the average temps, but summer water temps will hit highs in the mid-70's on Ontario, Erie and southern Huron. (Superior is a whole other world, as documented by Gordy Lightfoot!). 

 

Your post triggered my memory that even in Antarctica, there does not appear to be usage of full suits. This pic appears to show pax with the issued Viking jacket, separate pants and boots as well as flotation - but it may mean more to your professional eye than my amateur one.

 

Perhaps one of the experienced pax from Octantis or Polaris down south can advise ... I would not want to be over the side in this attire. Cheers! 🍺🥌

 

 

Rob - without having seen the gear, it is tough to make a definitive comparison to the Mustang survival suits. However, if they are separate pieces, the jacket doesn't appear to have any way of sealing with the trousers. If they require PFD's, the jackets are probably less effective than my Mustang floater coat, c/w beavertail and velcro wrist straps.

 

In Antarctica, with water temps around 30 F, survival time can be 15 mins or less. Considering the age of most Viking pax, and lack of survival training, most would be at the low end of the range and be unconscious in under 15 mins.

 

As a positive, the PFD appears to have the beavertail strap, so that should prevent the jacket riding up.

 

Regardless, comfort is always secondary to safety, so to head out in a RIB, especially in 30 degree water, my minimum requirement would be a survival suit.

[CurlerRob]

55 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Rob - without having seen the gear, it is tough to make a definitive comparison to the Mustang survival suits. However, if they are separate pieces, the jacket doesn't appear to have any way of sealing with the trousers. If they require PFD's, the jackets are probably less effective than my Mustang floater coat, c/w beavertail and velcro wrist straps.

 

In Antarctica, with water temps around 30 F, survival time can be 15 mins or less. Considering the age of most Viking pax, and lack of survival training, most would be at the low end of the range and be unconscious in under 15 mins.

 

As a positive, the PFD appears to have the beavertail strap, so that should prevent the jacket riding up.

 

Regardless, comfort is always secondary to safety, so to head out in a RIB, especially in 30 degree water, my minimum requirement would be a survival suit.

 

Concur. @Frenchberet was kind enough to confirm that the outfits are separate, as it appeared. 

 

Like you, I was quite fond of my float coat during my years of racing, but was always very happy that I never had to put it to work for real - especially in early May and 40F waters!

 

The positive side would be that in the Zodiac operations, there are many boats and quick recovery of an overboard pax is likely - as would appear to have been the case in the Polaris accident. Nevertheless, water at that temp is not to be messed with, and it's an item that prospective cruisers should factor in. Polar expedition trips are not Caribbean junkets. 🍺🥌

[island lady]

Another curious question....the boots Viking provides.   Are they "over your shoes" rubber type boots, or simply wear a good pair of socks to slip into the ones they provide?  Need to figure out my shoe packing for our Octantis NW passage cruise.  Thanks in advance!  🙂 

[Frenchberet]

30 minutes ago, island lady said:

Another curious question....the boots Viking provides.   Are they "over your shoes" rubber type boots, or simply wear a good pair of socks to slip into the ones they provide?  Need to figure out my shoe packing for our Octantis NW passage cruise.  Thanks in advance!  🙂 

 
For the Antarctic Expedition, it was the “wear a good pair of socks to slip into the ones they provide” type.  We wore boot socks.  Viking has a large supply of boots and you go down to the Hangar for a fitting early in the trip.

[island lady]

28 minutes ago, Frenchberet said:

 
For the Antarctic Expedition, it was the “wear a good pair of socks to slip into the ones they provide” type.  We wore boot socks.  Viking has a large supply of boots and you go down to the Hangar for a fitting early in the trip.

 

Fantastic!  Thanks!   Much easier to pack a few pairs of boot socks than an extra pair of shoes.  🙂