Why Isn't HAL Adding New Ships to Their Fleet

[tscoffey]

1 hour ago, Blackduck59 said:

I'm just a poor working person who saves for years to enjoy a cruise

You’re not the only one who does.

And perhaps the people in a more expensive cabin class either saved for more years, or are just better at saving than you. 
I can afford 1-2 cruises a year, don’t really have to struggle at saving for it, and don’t book higher end cabins (which are a waste of money in my opinion).

But it would be a waste of time for me to be aggravated about how anyone else ended up in their cabin. 

[HappyInVan]

10 hours ago, Hlitner said:

When we look at the overall cruise industry (we cruise on many different lines) it does seem that HAL has now been positioned as a budget mass market line with a primary appeal to a small segment of the cruising public (older folks looking for good value without much interest in entertainment, activities, or onboard "bells and whistles."   Perhaps that will change in the future, but our recent cruise (Westerdam) showed us that HAL has little to offer (when compared to the other lines we cruise) other than decent itineraries and some decent pricing.  In many cases we see other lines constantly adding things while HAL continues to take things away (i.e. cost cutting).  There is a reason why we find many past HAL cruisers on lines like Oceania, Seabourn, etc.  Many of us are simply looking for something closer to the quality and entertainment we USED to find on HAL.  At one time we saw HAL as the "class act" and quality leader among all the mass market lines (Celebrity was close).  These days we just see HAL as a tired old company with an emphasis on penny pinching.  One has only to look at HAL's recently failed policy of charging extra money for folks who simply wanted to order soup and a salad in the PG!  or having a basic drink package which had a $1.18 extra fee for folks ordering a basic Cosmopolitan.  Small things, but symbolic of a penny pinching (nickel and dime) philosophy.

 

 

Well said.

[CNSJ]

13 hours ago, Mary229 said:

HAL has historically had some great itineraries and that emphasis is their strength.

One of the primary reasons we sail HAL.  Service is good on their oldest ship and newest ship. 

 

Consider that RCI has their newest "monstrosity" Icon of the Seas doing 7 day runs for the next 18 months or more, against itinerary focused lines such as HAL and Cunard who's newest vessels (Rotterdam and Queen Anne) travel the globe.  True that HAL does the 7-day Alaska runs in the summer and many 7 day runs from Port Everglades in winter, but I think many of those runs are to attract new cruisers. 

 

 

[Mary229]

7 minutes ago, CNSJ said:

One of the primary reasons we sail HAL.  Service is good on their oldest ship and newest ship. 

 

Consider that RCI has their newest "monstrosity" Icon of the Seas doing 7 day runs for the next 18 months or more, against itinerary focused lines such as HAL and Cunard who's newest vessels (Rotterdam and Queen Anne) travel the globe.  True that HAL does the 7-day Alaska runs in the summer and many 7 day runs from Port Everglades in winter, but I think many of those runs are to attract new cruisers. 

 

 

Those runs are to keep the ships from being idle and to capture the vacation market.  I have learned that even if I want to go to those locales to book 14 days minimum and not back to back. From guidance given on the forum I do look at other lines especially the ones @Hlitner and @cruisemom42 suggest but I don’t find the itineraries I am looking for.  I will be giving Princess another try in 2025 since they are now doing Transatlantic cruises to and from Texas .  I liked Princess before they went all in on mega ships, ditto NCL. 

[mwj]

Carnival adding a new ship in ‘27.

https://www.cruisehive.com/carnival-to-expand-fleet-orders-new-excel-class-cruise-ship/123280

[AFNavigator]

IF CCL were to add a new ship to the HAL fleet, it seems logical that it would be a variant of Cunard's new Queen Anne ship.

 

If Wikipedia is to be trusted, the MS Queen Anne is a "Pinnacle Series 4" ship, a modest growth version of HAL's three Pinnacle class ships.  It comes in at 1,058 ft long vs HAL's 983 ft, is 2 ft wider, and is 113,000 tons vs HAL's ~100,000 tons.  Stated engines and azipod units are the same for both versions.

 

That relatively modest size growth probably would still fit HAL well, as compared to the much larger ships Princess is buying (and still only about half the enormous capacity of Royal's new mega-ships).

[RedIguana]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:05 AM, Hlitner said:

When we look at the overall cruise industry (we cruise on many different lines) it does seem that HAL has now been positioned as a budget mass market line

HAL is still on the upper end of the mass market lines, along with Celebrity and Princess. There is no way you can compare HAL to a budget line such as MSC or Costa. And if you think the penny pinching is bad on HAL, check out what has happened to Celebrity and Princess. They both also have upcharges for a lot of drinks on their lower packages, and Celebrity has upcharges for drinks on their premium package that are covered under HAL's. Decoy cab on HAL is covered by the premium package (14.50, package covers to 15), on Celebrity it is a $2.36 upcharge ($19, package covers to $17).

 

[Hlitner]

57 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

HAL is still on the upper end of the mass market lines, along with Celebrity and Princess. There is no way you can compare HAL to a budget line such as MSC or Costa. And if you think the penny pinching is bad on HAL, check out what has happened to Celebrity and Princess. They both also have upcharges for a lot of drinks on their lower packages, and Celebrity has upcharges for drinks on their premium package that are covered under HAL's. Decoy cab on HAL is covered by the premium package (14.50, package covers to 15), on Celebrity it is a $2.36 upcharge ($19, package covers to $17).

 

Really?  Perhaps we are naive, but we have cruised on 17 different lines including being Elite on Princess, Diamond Plus on Celebrity, and Diamond on MSC (only cruise in their Yacht Club).  We are also 5* on HAL.  Have never cruised on Costa so cannot comment on that comparison.  Not boasting but just trying to deal with what you say from firsthand knowledge.  And yes, we view the current version of HAL as a budget cruise line within the so-called mass market category.  Granted that this is just the opinion of two folks (DW and me) and no question many will disagree.  

 

Bottom line is that when a cruise line acts like a budget line, we give them their due.

 

 

 

[horseymike]

$$$$$$

[RedIguana]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

and Diamond on MSC (only cruise in their Yacht Club)

Try MSC without the Yacht Club, then you are on a budget line.

[Ride-The-Waves]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:05 AM, Hlitner said:

Sounds a bit defensive.  New Builds are huge capital expenditures and the ultimate decision rests with the CEO of Carnival Cruise Corp and their board of directors.  Like most business-orented folks who have a "fiduciary" responsibility to stockholders, the board ulitmately puts their dollars and future investments where they expect to get the best return on investment.  One can conclude, that at the current time, the board does not think that HAL can justify (financially) a new build.  

 

When we look at the overall cruise industry (we cruise on many different lines) it does seem that HAL has now been positioned as a budget mass market line with a primary appeal to a small segment of the cruising public (older folks looking for good value without much interest in entertainment, activities, or onboard "bells and whistles."   Perhaps that will change in the future, but our recent cruise (Westerdam) showed us that HAL has little to offer (when compared to the other lines we cruise) other than decent itineraries and some decent pricing.  In many cases we see other lines constantly adding things while HAL continues to take things away (i.e. cost cutting).  There is a reason why we find many past HAL cruisers on lines like Oceania, Seabourn, etc.  Many of us are simply looking for something closer to the quality and entertainment we USED to find on HAL.  At one time we saw HAL as the "class act" and quality leader among all the mass market lines (Celebrity was close).  These days we just see HAL as a tired old company with an emphasis on penny pinching.  One has only to look at HAL's recently failed policy of charging extra money for folks who simply wanted to order soup and a salad in the PG!  or having a basic drink package which had a $1.18 extra fee for folks ordering a basic Cosmopolitan.  Small things, but symbolic of a penny pinching (nickel and dime) philosophy.

 

Hank

We all need to remember that MSC (Mediterranean Shipping Company) operates at a different level than CCL and RCCL since it is privately, owned, and has the underpinnings of global commercial shipping as backbone.  To place a hit on HAL for how it operates is unbecoming.  HAL does a great job providing excellent cruise ships for its market.  My first experience with HAL was as a youngster crossing the Atlantic in 1949.  Today's mass market ships, and I include Princess in that category, cannot provide the same high level of experience we had in the 1950s on the Atlantic.  I have sailed on many ships and many lines, to include Oceania and Azamara.  Oceania was not up to their marketing.  They do not have the "finest cuisine at sea" by any stretch of the imagination.  Neither do any of the mega-ships and I include Princess' Royal class in that category.  Have plans to return to "yesteryear" and cross the Pond this year on Zuiderdam, Adventure of the Seas, and Caribbean Princess.  While not classic ships (with the exception of Zuiderdam) they are not part of the stomach-turning new breed of mega-ships.  Oh, and I also have 30 years experience in the USN...