Roger de Haan , on November Caribbean cruise, any good questions

[Windsurfboy]

Roger de Haan is doing a Q&A on November Caribbean cruise.

 

I know quite a few on this platform are on that cruise. What should we ask him. 

 

My number one thought at moment is about the price promise,  and the increasing use of guarantee fares. Doesn't he think that Saga are training people to wait for guarantees,  which can't be good practice.

 

Surely a pricing model , that yes benefits early  booking,  but that doesn't rise so rapidly, so  putting off customers who don't want  to book so early, would fill up the ships. Rather than current model a rush of early bookings, then everyone sits for guarantees. 

 

Yes I'll have to be more succinct. 

 

My other bug bear is all the included  tours are panoramic , why don't  Saga  have other types of included  tours, eg walking tours , a large proportion of their passengers don't  want to sit on a coach for three hours , and so never use the included tours.

[LandC]

I agree with your points Windsurfboy.  Also why are no paper port maps available.  Taking a photo of maps on smart phones is not practical (or safe).  
 

Personally, I would like to know if Saga plan to introduce some more fly cruises for those of us who don’t enjoy too many sea days.

[david05]

I thought Roger de Hann was no longer involved with the Saga companies, including the cruise wing. Is he back in the business, does he have any say in the running of the cruise operations?

[Windsurfboy]

31 minutes ago, david05 said:

I thought Roger de Hann was no longer involved with the Saga companies, including the cruise wing. Is he back in the business, does he have any say in the running of the cruise operations?

 

No idea what say , but the fact he is doing  a Q&A must indicate some interest and hopefully influence . Described as non executive chairman. 

 

[nosapphire]

Sir Roger rejoined the board of Saga as (non-excecutive) chairman back in 2020, along with a massive cash injection.

[Glenndale]

I’d suggest an allowance in lieu of included excursions with some excursions being sold at the same cost as the allowance.

[david05]

3 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

My number one thought at moment is about the price promise,  and the increasing use of guarantee fares. Doesn't he think that Saga are training people to wait for guarantees,  which can't be good practice.

I agree, there seem to be an increasing number of cruises where the guarantee fare is lower than the lowest fare (with 35% discount) when the cruise went on sale. In some instances significantly below the initial price and I don't think this makes good business sense in the long run.

[Cruise-Cat]

5 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

My number one thought at moment is about the price promise,  and the increasing use of guarantee fares. Doesn't he think that Saga are training people to wait for guarantees,  which can't be good practice.

 

Surely a pricing model , that yes benefits early  booking,  but that doesn't rise so rapidly, so  putting off customers who don't want  to book so early, would fill up the ships. Rather than current model a rush of early bookings, then everyone sits for guarantees. 

I noticed that guarantee cabins have been available on some cruises several months before departure date i.e. not just for last minute/ late bookings.  
I wonder if this is becoming more the norm?  And if so, perhaps it’s a good idea as it gives the same choice to everyone at the time of booking.

[LandC]

I think there are too many Canaries itineraries.  People who have some flexibility on dates would be better off waiting for a guarantee offer. 

 

[JoJo1947]

15 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Roger de Haan is doing a Q&A on November Caribbean cruise.

 

I know quite a few on this platform are on that cruise. What should we ask him. 

 

My number one thought at moment is about the price promise,  and the increasing use of guarantee fares. Doesn't he think that Saga are training people to wait for guarantees,  which can't be good practice.

 

Surely a pricing model , that yes benefits early  booking,  but that doesn't rise so rapidly, so  putting off customers who don't want  to book so early, would fill up the ships. Rather than current model a rush of early bookings, then everyone sits for guarantees. 

 

Yes I'll have to be more succinct. 

 

My other bug bear is all the included  tours are panoramic , why don't  Saga  have other types of included  tours, eg walking tours , a large proportion of their passengers don't  want to sit on a coach for three hours , and so never use the included tours.

Has this changed then because Saga always promised that guaranteed cabins would not be cheaper over the 35%, discount. Cabin prices change as you know when the highest discount cabins have been sold hence why the % drops. So to me the value is 35% off. 

[nosapphire]

2 hours ago, JoJo1947 said:

Has this changed then because Saga always promised that guaranteed cabins would not be cheaper over the 35%, discount. Cabin prices change as you know when the highest discount cabins have been sold hence why the % drops. So to me the value is 35% off. 

In fairness, I don't think that Saga ever made that specific explicit promise - but it was certainly implied by them, believed by most of us - and until very recently was true.

They still apply their Price Promise, so if the price reduces for a booking under the exact same terms as the one you have, then they will apply the reduction to your existing booking.

 

But now their terms have changed slighly, instead of "book early for the best price" it says "the earlier you book the better chance of getting the maximum discount".

That is still true - but a lot of us are dismayed to find that for several cruises sailing the 2nd half of this year, guarantee prices are less that the 35% discount for the lowest grade of cabin (E deck).

"Book early for the best price" is no longer an accurate statement.

"Wait until the last minute to snag a deal" would be a better description.

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

Given offers are all guarantee and hence different T&Cs. The only way the price promise would be triggered would be if they at last minute offered a lower guarantee fare than initial guarantee fare (which appears 3 to 6 months before sailing). This would be to benefit of guarantee cabins. 

 

They will never trigger the price promise in favour of those who booked at launch, even though they imply this, because  offers are never standard T&Cs.

 

Thus the price promise is smoke and mirrors. 

 

 

[nosapphire]

If the headline price for a cruise is reduced, then this triggers the price promise. One of my 2024 booked cruises had 2 sequential downward reductions on the balance when the headline price was reduced (twice).

But it seems that reducing the headline price was not sufficient to fill the ship, so greatly reduced guarantee prices came in, and - as you point out - guarantee cabins never trigger the price promise for anyone who has booked early because they trusted that early booking would always mean the best price.

Not any more, it doesn't.

[Balaena]

For goodness sake, if you are prepared to have a discounted guaranteed cabin that's fine but omg having cruised for many years the very last place I would want to be is in a forward cabin. We did it once (paying full fare) and the ship motion was so bad that we were both sea sick which is not something we have experienced previously. Guarantee cabins are ones that are least sought after so if you want one and the discount is slightly less than the 35% early booking good luck to you. I prefer to pay for a good position on the ship, can you imagine crossing the Bay or Atlantic bouncing through a storm ummm not us. 

[Cruise-Cat]

It would be helpful if Saga accepted Amex payments- it upsets me not to be able to collect Avios on cruise costs 🥲

[JoJo1947]

1 hour ago, Balaena said:

For goodness sake, if you are prepared to have a discounted guaranteed cabin that's fine but omg having cruised for many years the very last place I would want to be is in a forward cabin. We did it once (paying full fare) and the ship motion was so bad that we were both sea sick which is not something we have experienced previously. Guarantee cabins are ones that are least sought after so if you want one and the discount is slightly less than the 35% early booking good luck to you. I prefer to pay for a good position on the ship, can you imagine crossing the Bay or Atlantic bouncing through a storm ummm not us. 

Just got our guarantee cabin number . Mid B deck so hardly not sought after.  Never had a ' bad area' on all  of our guarantee cabins we've booked. Money in our bank not Saga's 

[Cruise-Cat]

18 minutes ago, JoJo1947 said:

Just got our guarantee cabin number . Mid B deck so hardly not sought after.  Never had a ' bad area' on all  of our guarantee cabins we've booked. Money in our bank not Saga's 

How far off is your departure date? Seems like a good result 👍

Edited August 16 by Cruise-Cat
Adding

[nosapphire]

Booked a Canaries cruise last year under cabin guarantee.

The price (based on standard cabin L grade cabin, E deck) would have been £2671 with 35% discount.

Guarantee price was £2627.

Sail date December 2023, booked June 2023, cabin allocated July 2023.

Forward part of midship B deck. Very comfortable - no noticeable movement.

Apparently this was an upgrade under the price promise, so evidently the guarantee price dropped even lower after I had booked.

I did look at the price for the cabin grade and location that was allocated, cannot remember exactly but it was substantially more than I paid for it.

 

[JoJo1947]

12 hours ago, Cruise-Cat said:

How far off is your departure date? Seems like a good result 👍

8 days. 

[Balaena]

If all you folk want a huge discount then go elsewhere, we love the high standard that Saga provides and at a reasonable price. If you want discounted cruises then go to Carnival where cheap cruising is the norm. Saga provides exceptional service throughout and it seems that many of you are intent on bringing that down to Carnival level by trying to save a few bob. Yes occasionally they do offer a discounted rate but if everybody took the stance as some suggest to wait for deals then that could have an overall impact on the future standard and offer of Saga cruises.

[Cruise-Cat]

Reposted with quote

Edited August 17 by Cruise-Cat
No quote

[Cruise-Cat]

31 minutes ago, Balaena said:

If all you folk want a huge discount then go elsewhere, we love the high standard that Saga provides and at a reasonable price. If you want discounted cruises then go to Carnival where cheap cruising is the norm. Saga provides exceptional service throughout and it seems that many of you are intent on bringing that down to Carnival level by trying to save a few bob. Yes occasionally they do offer a discounted rate but if everybody took the stance as some suggest to wait for deals then that could have an overall impact on the future standard and offer of Saga cruises.

I think we’re just commenting on what we’re observing.  I can see why Saga want to sell as many cabins as possible. From my perspective I’ve booked two long cruises on guarantee prices but would probably not chosen to spend the amount needed for the full (with discount) fares. 
As I’ve only booked suites before it will be interesting to see if this was a good idea🤔

[nosapphire]

3 hours ago, Balaena said:

If all you folk want a huge discount then go elsewhere, we love the high standard that Saga provides and at a reasonable price. If you want discounted cruises then go to Carnival where cheap cruising is the norm. Saga provides exceptional service throughout and it seems that many of you are intent on bringing that down to Carnival level by trying to save a few bob. Yes occasionally they do offer a discounted rate but if everybody took the stance as some suggest to wait for deals then that could have an overall impact on the future standard and offer of Saga cruises.

I doubt that anyone is looking for cheap cruising or large discounts with Saga - you seem to be misunderstanding the comments.

Your suggestion that everybody taking the stance of waiting for last minute deals could have an overall impact on future cruises? - well, if that does happen, Saga only have themselves to blame for giving customers the notion that waiting to book  is a good idea.

Far better to keep best discounts for early bookers so Saga have firm bookings and money in the bank - win-win all round.

The amount of mailings/emails/newspaper inserts really feel as if Saga are "rubbing our noses" in the fact that booking early no longer means getting the best price. Every week, several communications about the same cruises, each time with "offer ending this Friday".

It is also making many wonder WHY Saga feel the need to be so heavy handed on the "special" promotions - it seems to be a bit more than just getting the last few cabins shifted - sometimes it feels verging on the panicky, which - as I really want Saga to stay as Saga - is worrying.

 

(Even the shareholder forums are have been commenting on this) (The shareholder forums are now discussing the likelihood of Saga selling their ships to Azamara).

 

[JoJo1947]

4 hours ago, Balaena said:

If all you folk want a huge discount then go elsewhere, we love the high standard that Saga provides and at a reasonable price. If you want discounted cruises then go to Carnival where cheap cruising is the norm. Saga provides exceptional service throughout and it seems that many of you are intent on bringing that down to Carnival level by trying to save a few bob. Yes occasionally they do offer a discounted rate but if everybody took the stance as some suggest to wait for deals then that could have an overall impact on the future standard and offer of Saga cruises.

 Telling others to go elsewhere typical 😂  we've waited and got some good deals plus extra Britannia club discount. Why would't I? No one imo is trying to bring Saga down and it's free speech to discuss this. Here's another typical reply ..scroll on by 😂

[Windsurfboy]

Saga have to offer late discounts because their pricing strategy is basically a very bad business model.

 

The say book early to get best price. They start off offering cabins that are not exactly cheap but offer good value for the qualityyou get. 

 

These are snapped  up for the lower decks at "35% discount" . Prices then go up rapidly. Much more rapidly than other cruise lines

 

35% discount = 65% 

30% discount =70% Which is a 7.7% increase on initial price 65%

25% discount = 75% Which is a 15.4% increase on initial price 

20% discount = 80% Which is a 23% increase on initial price.

 

By which time no one is buying as they are now expensive for what you get.

 

This is exacerbated by the fact that the premium Saga charge for an identical cabin on higher decks is again out of kilter,  Sun deck is 45% premium on E deck, C deck over 25% more expensive. This is completely unusual,  norm for better positioned identical cabin on other lines is 10 or 15%. Thus the higher decks are a very slow to sell, as they are deemed expensive. 

 

Thus after initial flurry Saga gets few customers,  anyone who likes to book 12 to 6 months ahead put of by high prices. Saga then ends up with a lot of empty  cabins to sell ast discount  guarantee. Customers are learning about this , Saga is training people to wait for guarantees. 

 

What Saga should do is only  increase prices by 10% after launch, reduce the premium for higher decks. It would then sell more at normal prices without the need for guarantees . In total more revenue. 

 

 

Edited August 17 by Windsurfboy