48 hours mystery

[RG10203]

I think PCUR has got it right. George accidentally fell overboard. I find many of the so called “facts” are not so unusual. The sounds of furniture being shuffled around could have been George stumbling all around. The small amount of blood found on the bed and then a towel simply shows that a “conscious” person cut themselves. George stumbled on furniture and cut himself, then used a towel like many people would do to stop the bleeding. Later Dr. Lee finds blood on the balcony. This is consistent with George bleeding on the balcony in a stupor. 48 hours made a point about the crew noting the balcony door was closed and the curtains closed. I’ve used the balcony many times without opening the curtains and I have closed the door as the little sign on the door says to do. The one thing that wasn’t mentioned is, was the balcony door locked or unlocked?

 

George’s family conclude he was murdered based solely on facts that would support both theories. They choose the murder theory, but don’t explain why. 48 hours spends a lot time on the statements of the Russian boys and others who are “persons of interest.” The video of the Russian boys talking to Turkish authorities speaks for itself, but all the other statements are coming from attorneys. I’m sorry, but just don’t trust an attorney relaying the statements of their clients. If they were to tell the truth its probably got some spin to it. George’s family say the authorities are not doing a good job. Maybe their doing a great job. They’ve talked to a lot people, but just can’t prove any foul play.

 

Both families are filing wrongful death lawsuits against Royal Caribbean. This case should go to court, then it will be determined as to what happen. In most cases a cause of death must be proved. I think George’s death would have to proved an accident to show negligence on Royal Caribbean’s part. If not proved to be an accident then it was murder, but what could Royal Caribbean have done to prevent it?

[cruiser_carol]

IMO....It's not just a question of how he died...or making money out of a lawsuit...or how badly we think the family have conducted themselves. It is a question of could more have been done onboard, by the crew and staff, to contol the wild behavior... of a fairly large group of people.. behaving out of contol.. for quite sometime. Causing a lot of disturbance to other passengers, with no repercussions. I think the answer is definitely Yes! This is no reflection of RC...and their level of service. Just a question of judgment at the time..and how the staff/security chose to handle some very problematic customers.

 

Have SOME of the FACTS not been reported? Of course! That is the way most suspected criminal investigations proceed. Especially if there is a law suit pending.. should negligence be proven. This does not mean that there has been any secrecy...or dishonesty.. in the way RC are handling the situation. The public seldom know 100% about any investigation... No matter whom it involves...or What it is about.

 

The obvious reply to more security controls onboard, is Of course.....they could still sneak drinks into their cabin. True...but "IF" this group had been targeted... confronted by staff or security... and offered an utimatum to behave reasonably or else...I seriously think they would have calmed down considerably and there would never have been a Missing Person to Worry about. It would also be fairly easy.. for the cabin steward to keep an eye...Bartenders etc..to observe and note.. any unusual comings and goings of these people..and any obvious drink lying around in the cabin. Once they were made aware that there was a problem. This, in fact, should be standard procedure.. in dealing with very heavy drinkers.. or possible problem passengers. Perhaps more was done by the staff onboard..then we are aware of?

 

It's the old adage..."Give them an Inch..and they take a Mile" Their behavior got progressively worse, when no one intervened. They finally lost all control.

 

Accident or Murder...I don't know..but I don't think he simply lost his balance. There was too much going on with all the info we know...including the oddness of Jens' behavior. A lot of very drunk Guys... unable to stand....fights..shouting matches...a missing wife..some of these guys were very threatening in behavior...they later are involved in making videos of sex acts...also accused of rape.... How Can Anything But Bad be a Result?? People end up murdered all the time..for no apparent reason at all. They also die accidently due to silly pranks that go wrong.. and irresponsible behavior. It is justToo easy to write this off. Hopefully, the FBI will find all the facts in the end. jmo...carol

[C 2 C]

A very interesting link for those who did not see the program:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Allen_Smith

[briternik]

I have the most problem with Jen's story. If she was "drugged" or extrememly hungover, how on earth did she manage to wake up and make it to a spa appointment? They said she arrived an hour and a half early. Obviously, she had time to change clothes. Why didn't she? Weird......

[JudyOh]

...and why didn't Jen think it odd that her husband of 4 days had not been in his cabin at all that night???? makes you wonder just what was going on with them. I think most new brides would have been a bit upset that their husband had not returned to the cabin that night and why did she rush out to the spa, didn't change clothes??? I think she certainly is hiding something. Georges family no longer speaks to her, that was brought out on Oprah's show. Wonder why??? I think she holds the answers to a lot of questions.

[KKeeganS]

I have the most problem with Jen's story. If she was "drugged" or extrememly hungover, how on earth did she manage to wake up and make it to a spa appointment? They said she arrived an hour and a half early. Obviously, she had time to change clothes. Why didn't she? Weird......

 

This struck me as well. If the couple were fighting the night before, I can understand her either trying to get her massage without seeing George or figuring he was avoiding her by not coming back to the cabin. But even with a history of partying and drinking, how are you almost incapacitated at 5 a.m., but up and about 3 1/2 hours later? And why not change clothes? That just doesn't make sense.

 

I got the impression as well from the piece last night that George's death was accidental in some way. But if that is the case, I don't understand what information Jennifer is withholding from the Smith family?

 

I agree that the wrongful death suit against RCI seems more about the way the investigation was handled than RCI's actual responsibility for George's death. I do think that RCI should have done more at the time of George's death to help the investigation. I realize they had thousands of passengers to see to at the time, but things like having a crew member wash the blood of the canopy or heading to their next port on time says to me that the investigation was compromised. I also think RCI should release their surveilance video and room key computer records to police.

 

I feel for both George and Jennifer's family. Not having closure or having blame leveled at you for something like this must be horrible. I hope eventually they do get the answers they need to lay George to rest.

[spongerob]

One thing I do know...If everyone who watches this,does not want to go out and book a cruise on an RCI ship I will be surprised.The Brilliance is a beauty,and RCI's ship are really hands down the most beautiful around.

 

Good point. Now I get the "wow factor".

 

I think the Lloyd person is a red herring. He went to the disco, but no one with any credibility saw him leave with Jen and RC says they can place him elsewhere. That crew-only door on Deck 9 where Jen was found is probably the linen closet/storage area for the stewards' carts. It's not what I would think would be a love nest. Did Josh take her to his cabin? Maybe, even if just to let her sleep it off since it is clear she was mad at her husband.

[divaofdisney]

I also find it very strange that she was able to make it to a spa appointment when just a few hours earlier so was so intoxicated she couldn't even find her way back to her cabin.....This is very odd to me. It would be interesting to find out if the people at the spa noticed anything peculiar or strange or that she was still pretty drunk....I think she may know more also than what she is telling... JMO Still is is so incredibly sad and unfortunate...this is why is it so important to have fun but also stay "in control" so that events like this don't get out of hand and put someone in a potentially bad situation.

[caviargal]

I find it ludicrous that RCI should be held accountable at all. They are not the police, nor the authorities nor the FBI and their responsibility was to support the investigation, not conduct it.

 

The doctor went on last night about the Captains announcement when they left port after the incident. What was he supposed to do? Rehash the little information he had for the other passengers? If I was aboard, I would not be looking for a blow by blow and I would not want any more of my expensive vacation compromised unless there was a purpose to be served. Really, just what should the Captain have announced anyway?

 

The Smiths were totally drunk, they were not together and apparently had not been together during at least one other night of the cruise. People need to start taking responsibility for their own behavior, IMO.

 

How in the world could a cruise line be responsible for what happened?

 

I hope the whole thing is thrown out of court.

[Sea and Me]

While watching this last night I thought to myself What a Honeymoon!! How can this bride get so drunk that she is kicking her husband and fighting then leaving him behind and going off with another man?? This whole situation is very sad for both families. Hopefully this mystery will be solved. This surely seems like its an accident, but what I'm wondering is why did George cut himself?? Is he trying suicide because of a fight?? A lot of blood for a cut don't you think?? About nobody hearing him fall, I myself sleep with earplugs so I don't hear too much. You can't really blame the cruiseline. Some claim the heavy drinking hey they were all suppose to be "adults". This is a case of too much to drink and no responsible adults present!! Sad very sad!!

[mkk]

Saw the 48hrs thing...not much to add...

Just want to point out that we didn't find it odd that Smith would be out on the balcony with the drapes drawn...we often draw the drapes when sitting out at night to make it as dark as possible..cuts the glare from in room lighting..better able to enjoy the stars and see the water...and almost always close the door cause it just gets too windy!

Definitely tragic for the families involved..

Not at all the cruiselines fault..but they should be as forthcoming with as much specific info as possible.

I do think it was an accident...but here again...too much alcohol can lead to poor judgment and reckless acts in the seemingly 'safe' confines of a cruiseship, as it can in any location.

I think J and G Smith certainly had their issues..and I hope for closure for G Smith's family.

[JudyOh]

caviargal - my senitments exactly. On Oprah Jen said RCI should have sent the passengers home and left the ship docked. Well, if it had been my vacation and I spent all that money even if I got it back I would have been pretty darn mad, plus why should RCI be responsible, they did do anything, she and her husband did. It's the "ME" generation thing, never responsible for what I do. Coming from money, she can just flit here and there as she pleases. For most people, trips like this take lots of planning and saving. This was probably a once in a lifetime cruise for many of the passengers and it should be ruined because people got so drunk they don't know what they did. I really think she knows where she was, just doesn't want to expose herself.

[pcur]

I think some of us are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 as an answer, me included a while ago.

 

Yes, these Russian dudes were undesirables. The blog I mentioned waaaay back on this thread talked about their behavior, the sex tape, the accused rape, etc. The blog also talked about all of what has been shown on TV.

 

However.......it doesn't mean they killed the guy.

 

I have two sons in their 20's, and I asked them about the drinking, the honeymoon "sleepovers", etc. They said it is very, very common in their age group to drink to extreme excess, and crash wherever you are. Most young men do this more than women. Women like to be in their own bed and bathroom to be sick and sleep. Guys drop on the nearest couch, etc.

 

They said the Smith's behavior is pretty consistent with their age group, for those that drink heavily. Sexual behavior is not very controlled.

 

However, one thing was cleared up for me in last night's program: the wife wasn't necessarily flirting, but "leaning" on other people, which I interpret to mean arms around, etc.

 

The reasons they didn't release the security tape of her being escorted to her cabin by another bar staff member, is probably:

 

1) the FBI said not to

2) they already have one staffer getting a lawyer; they didn't want this to mushroom

 

I can't make a call on the way RCCL conducted themselves during this. They said they helped and assisted all parties as much as possible. BUT, cruiser_carol has it right:

 

They allowed this disruptive, drunken behavior to go on during the cruise, and should have stopped it.

 

The Russians and their families were actually put off the ship after the rape accusation. The blog also talked about how they behaved on the dock. These were not nice people.

 

I think George's death was probably unavoidable. I think he fell over drunk, just like almost all the deaths on cruise ships. I think the Russians gave him a vehicle to drink to extreme excess, but it was ultimately his decision.

[Barky]

Don't forget that Clete Hyman said he looked around the partition and the drapes were open at around 7 am. He didn't see Jen in bed either.

 

I think 48 hours mentioned the drapes and door being closed to possibly refute Clete's testimony???

[Barky]

caviargal - my senitments exactly. On Oprah Jen said RCI should have sent the passengers home and left the ship docked. Well, if it had been my vacation and I spent all that money even if I got it back I would have been pretty darn mad, plus why should RCI be responsible, they did do anything, she and her husband did. It's the "ME" generation thing, never responsible for what I do. Coming from money, she can just flit here and there as she pleases. For most people, trips like this take lots of planning and saving. This was probably a once in a lifetime cruise for many of the passengers and it should be ruined because people got so drunk they don't know what they did. I really think she knows where she was, just doesn't want to expose herself.

 

I agree Grandmacruiser.

[pcur]

Don't forget that Clete Hyman said he looked around the partition and the drapes were open at around 7 am. He didn't see Jen in bed either.

 

I think 48 hours mentioned the drapes and door being closed to possibly refute Clete's testimony???

 

By 7 am the staff were looking for him. I imagine the room steward was in the room looking around and opened them. That's about 3 hours after all this happened.

[Barky]

By 7 am the staff were looking for him. I imagine the room steward was in the room looking around and opened them. That's about 3 hours after all this happened.

 

I'm prety sure RCCL didnt start looking til 8:30 am when the blood was reported and even the doctor last night mentioned 8:15.

[cruisePRN]

This was the second time the honeymoon couple didn't sleep together, I find that unusual. There is a possability this couple were "swingers" and that would explain them sleeping "around". I don't believe a word coming out of Dr. Henry Lee's mouth, he said OJ didn't do it so he has ZERO credibility with me. He testifies for the side that pays him first. If it was an accident I don't see why there is any liablity for RCL. If it was murder I still don't see any liability for RCL. Maybe the cruise line needs to enforce it's policy of not bring beverages onboard because their smuggled alcohol seems to have played a big role in this case.

[pcur]

I'm prety sure RCCL didnt start looking til 8:30 am when the blood was reported and even the doctor last night mentioned 8:15.

 

Yeah, you might be right about that. I thought they started looking around 7 AM. There's a lot of conflicting information here. At least the civil trial will put it all together.

[pcur]

This was the second time the honeymoon couple didn't sleep together, I find that unusual. There is a possability this couple were "swingers" and that would explain them sleeping "around".

 

Again, it might not have been sexual at all, just merely George passing out in another guy's room. Happens all the time, per my post above.

[azbirdz]

. . . I do think that RCI should have done more at the time of George's death to help the investigation. I realize they had thousands of passengers to see to at the time, but things like having a crew member wash the blood of the canopy or heading to their next port on time says to me that the investigation was compromised. I also think RCI should release their surveilance video and room key computer records to police. . . .

 

I have to disagree -- RCI confirmed twice (previously reported) that it was OK to clean the blood -- and did so only after it was becoming a danger as other passengers were leaning waaaay over to snap pictures of it. Further, they double checked with the Turkish authorities and FBI about when to leave port. I'm not sure what else they could have done given that the two investigating authorities cleared them. Also, we have no indication that they haven't released those video and room key records to the authorities -- just not the press.

[KKeeganS]

I have to disagree -- RCI confirmed twice (previously reported) that it was OK to clean the blood -- and did so only after it was becoming a danger as other passengers were leaning waaaay over to snap pictures of it. Further, they double checked with the Turkish authorities and FBI about when to leave port. I'm not sure what else they could have done given that the two investigating authorities cleared them. Also, we have no indication that they haven't released those video and room key records to the authorities -- just not the press.

 

I thought the show last night said they had released the information regarding Lloyd, etc, but hadn't made copies of all the videotapes and computer info available to the lawyers or investigators. I may have misheard. And if the investigators gave the okay for them to leave port or clean the room, then fine. I stand corrected.

[pcur]

I have to disagree -- RCI confirmed twice (previously reported) that it was OK to clean the blood -- and did so only after it was becoming a danger as other passengers were leaning waaaay over to snap pictures of it. Further, they double checked with the Turkish authorities and FBI about when to leave port. I'm not sure what else they could have done given that the two investigating authorities cleared them. Also, we have no indication that they haven't released those video and room key records to the authorities -- just not the press.

 

I agree with you. I think a lot of the facts we are seeing are gleaned from passengers (and their lawyers), and that RCCL is towing the line with the authorities. That's why the "fights back" article a few weeks ago where they realeased their timeline on what they did and didn't do. They probably have a pretty big "gag request" from the FBI.

[pcur]

I thought the show last night said they had released the information regarding Lloyd, etc, but hadn't made copies of all the videotapes and computer info available to the lawyers or investigators. I may have misheard. And if the investigators gave the okay for them to leave port or clean the room, then fine. I stand corrected.

 

I must have interpreted this differently than you. I thought what they meant was the LAWYERS and PRIVATE parties couldn't have the tapes, but I assume they gave them to the FBI and the Turkish police. Maybe I'm assuming incorrectly.

 

I think they just don't want to have their staff exposed any more than they have to right now. These people will be called as witnesses in the civil suit, or at least the tapes will. But, for now, the tapes (assuming again, here) are under the control of the authorities.

[JudyOh]

On Oprah's show a few weeks ago RCI said they were given permission from the Turkish government to clean the blood stain and also were given permission to leave port, that the Turkish government was finished with their investigation on the ship. That being the case they left, after all Jen left town right away also. RCI was told by her father that he was flying over to bring her home, they were informed the next day she was gone.