48 hours mystery

[Bluewake]

My sympathies go out to the family of George Smith. Obviously, I do not know the truth as to what happened that night but (based on what I've read) it does seem to me that if George and his new bride wouldn't have drank so much and stayed with one another, this probably never would have happened. Frankly, I have grown tired of people who can't control themselves when it comes to alcohol, get totaled, act like obnoxious jerks, place themselves in situations in which they are injured, and then blame someone else for what happened. Unfortunately, the concept of personal responsibility seems to be a fading one.

 

If there is any credible evidence that RCCL crew forced or encouraged them to drink, were directly involved in his demise, or prevented a killer from being brought to justice by subverting the investigation, then RCCL should be held accountable. But, if not, this lawsuit appears to be about misplaced revenge and money-grubbing...despite the spin the families are trying to put on it as being about "cruiseship safety".

 

I don't blame the Smiths for seeking answers but it certainly sounds as though this tragedy was precipitated by George's and his wife's respective drinking behavior more than anything else. Frankly, if they are going to blame someone for the loss of their son, the Smiths ought to file a lawsuit against George's wife. Not only does it sound as though she knows things she isn't telling them (but may have told law enforcement) but it sure seems that her behavior that night may have contributed more to the loss of George than any responsibility RCCL may have failed to fulfill. What is the resonsibility of a wife or husband to one another? In this brief marriage, the notion of standing by your spouse "in sickness and in health" appears to have been supplanted by "unless I decide to get smashed and I'm ticked-off at you - in which case I expect someone else to take care of both of us". Then again, I guess I'm just old-school when it comes to this marriage thing.

[pcur]

Bluewake:

 

I disagree. George made his own decisions, and put every drop of that abundance of alcohol down his own throat. I can pretty much assure you that this wasn't the first time that either one of them behaved this way.

[JudyOh]

Jen described themselves as "social drinkers, an occassional glass of wine" on Oprah. Sounds like they changed from social to lush quickly.:eek:

[Barky]

Jen described themselves as "social drinkers, an occassional glass of wine" on Oprah. Sounds like they changed from social to lush quickly.:eek:

 

His own mother said he was a party animal (but not a drunk.) Friends of theirs indicated they like to drink. I'd say they were very social drinkers. :D

[missybirchfield]

I have the most problem with Jen's story. If she was "drugged" or extrememly hungover, how on earth did she manage to wake up and make it to a spa appointment? They said she arrived an hour and a half early. Obviously, she had time to change clothes. Why didn't she? Weird......

 

DITTO!!!!

My thought exactly. If she was as drunk as rumored, how in the world, was she able to go to a spa appointment??? Would she not have felt really bad???

 

Missy

[emdia43]

Bluewake: Well said- my thoughts exactly.

Unfortunately we are living in an 'entitlement' culture.

[AFT_LOVER]

For a high ranking police officer, if I heard commotion, I'd be leaning to check it out, then calling about it. He states all he heard. Funny that Capt Wright & Greta Susterin were in the same room, their cameraman in Clete's. They banged on the walls, they yelled at each other, they shoved furniture (chair to the desk & wall, etc) CAMERMAN HEARD NOTHING! SO Greta called that whole story as his "dream". Then the woman with 2 daughters, one who took the photo & became wealthy with it. If George jumped, fell, whatever with him as large as he is & hitting the canopy above the lifeboats & they heard NOTHING????? So him dropping from the raining to the canopy & diving to the waiting boat is perfect for me. His Swiss bank account he'd been building for years is his money pit now as he is someone else.

 

RCCL gave 75 camera reels to FBI, Turks, Consulate as well as records of key cards for gaining entry to ship & exiting as well as rooms activity. So any knowledge is with the main investigators, not the lawyers, media, and others who could recreate a new story as his parents are with "all the blood" that he banged his head when he fell from bed & got the towel to top it. The bloody nose with the Kleenex, etc. Then we could have Jen seeing George on the balcony with his cigar & grabs his foot knocking him off & she runs, lays in the hall acting drunk, etc. Then in bed she dreams of what she did & runs out, ending at the spa where they were to have a couples message at 10AM. I head from Greta that she went in a robe to sit in the resting room with juice. There the Vice Captain came to ask her if she knew where George was as he isn't here for his message. She tells him he slept elsewhere so she doesn't know. That knocked his socks off as he stated to Greta. Then she is taken to Marie's office with Josh behind the door. Then they leave to get her clothes & a shower with some rest before Turk police want them. That all done Josh leaves her office to his parents to take him to Turk police. Mom tapes his interview with crying toddler, wife, strange work they do.

[Host Mike]

There is one thing that was reported that I don't see mentioned here.

The alcohol that was smuggled on and being consumed was Absinthe.

That is more like a liquid hallucinogen.

This particular drink is not legal to posses in the United States, but you can get it in other countries.

Even then, it is illegal to bring into the U.S.

As George was in the liquor business, I am sure he was aware of this. So they had their hands on a novelty and quite possibly did not know when enough was enough.

So with all the liquor they consumed, add that and you have a drunk+.

[jeniceglassman]

MACOP: The crying toddler was the interperters (sp) child.

[pcur]

There is one thing that was reported that I don't see mentioned here.

The alcohol that was smuggled on and being consumed was Absinthe.

That is more like a liquid hallucinogen.

This particular drink is not legal to posses in the United States, but you can get it in other countries.

Even then, it is illegal to bring into the U.S.

As George was in the liquor business, I am sure he was aware of this. So they had their hands on a novelty and quite possibly did not know when enough was enough.

So with all the liquor they consumed, add that and you have a drunk+.

 

Yes, Mike, I agree. It was mentioned way, way, way back at the beginning of this thread. That high-proof booze can really wack a person up the side of the head.

 

I brought a bottle of Ouzo home from Greece, and gave it to my son, because I don't drink that much. He and his friend drank it one night, and they both ended up on the floor alllllllll the next day in the bathroom. That's how sick it made him. (Hmmmmmm....did Mom have an ulterior motive of adverse watchamacallit with her young 20's son who drank too much with his friends?????).

 

So, if George and Jen weren't used to this kind of alcohol, it could do weird things to them, especially her being a smaller body weight.

[sgriff17]

What's with this sex tape you keep mentioning? Is this something the Russians made with other pax?

[JudyOh]

Yes, the passenger cried rape but after viewing the tape it was declared a sexual encounter. This is what was said last night on 48 hours.

[pcur]

According to the blog I read right after this cruise, the Russian group taped a young woman having sex with one of the group. The lawyer of the young man involved tried to make light of it on another TV news program, like "oh, boys will be boys" type of thing.

 

The Russian group were put off the ship after this incident. Just enough was enough, I guess, and their family group made a huge scene on the dock. They were being questioned by the local police about it, and a lot of pax were watching and making it known they were pleased to see the group go. They had been loud and rowdy during the cruise.

 

It's debatable if the sex video (or the sex) was with or without the young woman's consent, but she obviously was upset enough to make a big stink about it.

 

These guys are not the cream of the crop, so to speak.

[AFT_LOVER]

for DNA testing in Turkey & no drugs found, so that theory is out of here.

 

Pretty funny that Jen went to the in laws, stayed in George's room & was told to leave a day later since she wouldn't talk.

 

 

I have the most problem with Jen's story. If she was "drugged" or extrememly hungover, how on earth did she manage to wake up and make it to a spa appointment? They said she arrived an hour and a half early. Obviously, she had time to change clothes. Why didn't she? Weird......

[AFT_LOVER]

and watched the tape & from the voices on the tape & what they were saying, it was ruled CONSENTUAL. Case Closed.

 

 

According to the blog I read right after this cruise, the Russian group taped a young woman having sex with one of the group. The lawyer of the young man involved tried to make light of it on another TV news program, like "oh, boys will be boys" type of thing.

 

The Russian group were put off the ship after this incident. Just enough was enough, I guess, and their family group made a huge scene on the dock. They were being questioned by the local police about it, and a lot of pax were watching and making it known they were pleased to see the group go. They had been loud and rowdy during the cruise.

 

It's debatable if the sex video (or the sex) was with or without the young woman's consent, but she obviously was upset enough to make a big stink about it.

 

These guys are not the cream of the crop, so to speak.

[AFT_LOVER]

with a crying toddler? That baby should be out of the business area so folks can hear what is going on in both languages. That is why I stated how unprofessional they were.

 

Then we have the 2 next door neighbors with different stories, a cop that did investigate what he heard as George would be visible on the canopy to him. And the mother & 2 daughters who;s room had the canopy & the bed with sofa are right there & they heard -0- with a big guy falling a floor.

 

 

MACOP: The crying toddler was the interperters (sp) child.

[albean99]

I didn't see this show but did watch the Primetime feature on it. I thought Clete was quite credible about the sounds he heard and the timing of the big bang. It was the same time that the wife was found by staff. I'm very surprised by the Turkish police and their so-called investigation. I can't believe they didn't interview Clete or other witnesses. At the very least, the overhang should have been protected and not cleaned until the FBI could examine it.

 

The Primetime show made it clear to me that RCI and other cruiselines are more intent on laying the blame on others than in finding the truth. I'm not saying that they're to blame for the murder/accident (I think it may be murder) but they certainly didn't help. In the show all but one of the disappearances was connected to alcohol for which the cruiselines aren't the only ones to blame but they do push it. I don't think this will ever be solved unfortunately.

 

I still like RCI and would certainly cruise with them and other lines again but I talked to my boys about the drinking issue. I don't believe they should be sued in this case.

[mafig]

At the very least, the overhang should have been protected and not cleaned until the FBI could examine it.

 

Why does this keep popping up???? My understanding is that this was a story put out by the Smiths early on. I thought that RCI stated that the overhang was examined by the Turkish police and the FBI and only then was it cleaned. MACOP could you verify this???

 

Remember the Smiths stated RCI also painted the overhang, and that was not the case either.

[albean99]

It's been in every article I read about it plus on the show I saw, Mafig. Here's a quote from an RCI spokesperson about it:

 

"You had guests leaning way out over their balconies trying to take pictures of the blood on the canopy. It became an issue of safety," Martenstein says. "When we were given explicit permission to do so from the Turkish authorities after they had completed their investigation, we washed it off with a power hose. We've never painted it over. We cooperated with the FBI, the Turkish authorities and the U.S. consulate throughout that day and to this day."

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/05/earlyshow/main1180583.shtml (pg. 2)

 

It's pretty clear that it was done after the Turkish officials said it was okay just like was stated before. I don't know about the painting over it but I didn't say that in my post. It's obvious that RCI had permission but I don't think the Turkish police should have given it.

[MszKitty]

Something I don't get....Clete says he heard a "horrific thud". Being a policeman, wouldn't it make sense that he would at least go outside and see if he could find the source of that "horrific thud"? Especially after hearing all the other noises in the Smiths cabin. That, to me, would put up little red flags. JMO

[sha88]

Something I don't get....Clete says he heard a "horrific thud". Being a policeman, wouldn't it make sense that he would at least go outside and see if he could find the source of that "horrific thud"? Especially after hearing all the other noises in the Smiths cabin. That, to me, would put up little red flags. JMO

 

I agree. Why wouldn't a police officer, at the very least, go out on his own balcony and see what was going on. He said he called to complain about the noise, why didn't he follow up? Sounds weird to me. Seems like it is the nature of a police officer to get up and investigate.

 

After watching that show, it seemed to me just so sad that these two people had their whole lives in front of them, but unfortunately, I think the bottom line is that they drank too much and lost control. Really sad for all families involved.