New TSA Requirements

[dwbias]

If you're flying to your next cruise, you might as well kiss off the tube of "Preparation H":mad:

[Tinknock50]

If you're flying to your next cruise, you might as well kiss off the tube of "Preparation H":mad:

 

Sigh.....pack it in your check-in luggage in a zip lock bag.

 

Or were you planning on using it on the plane?

[michmike]

Then again, there's always the option of smearing some of it on the inevitable buttheads that you'll encounter while traveling, to see if can make THEM disappear.

 

On an unrelated issue, Is it just me, or does it seem like overkill to implement those same stringent TSA inspections and restrictions in places like Grand Rapids and Wichita? I understand the need for security and safety but it does seem that they go overboard when incidents like this occur. We're flying a week from tomorrow. Will be interesting to see if the hysteria has abated any by then.

[Mlascheid]

I would think the inspections/restrictions would/should need to be implemented across the board. What if terrorists find out that there are certain airports around the country that are NOT following the tighter restrictions, and realizing that they would be caught trying to board at those higher security airports they just may decide to board planes at those lower profile/lower security airports and blow up a few planes over Witchita or Grand Rapids. The destruction may be on a smaller scale, but any loss of innocent life is too much. I would be worried if the airport that I fly out of does not follow the heightened restrictions.

[lougee1043]

On an unrelated issue, Is it just me, or does it seem like overkill to implement those same stringent TSA inspections and restrictions in places like Grand Rapids and Wichita? .

 

i think its just you -- who do you suggest make the list as to which airports get more security and which get less

[Tinknock50]

i think its just you -- who do you suggest make the list as to which airports get more security and which get less

 

Agree.......and who would take the blame when something does happen in these smaller airports? Actually would make a great plot......20 terrorists spread over many small flights could take out a lot of people. The terrorists would rejoice at the info that so many small airports are unguarded.

[RevNeal]

Here's a list of the arrested suspects:

 

ALI, Abdula Ahmed

ALI, Cossor

ALI, Shazad Khuram

HUSSAIN, Nabeel

HUSSAIN, Tanvir

HUSSAIN, Umair

ISLAM, Umar

KAYANI, Waseem

KHAN, Assan Abdullah

KHAN, Waheed Arafat

KHATIB, Osman Adam

PATEL, Abdul Muneem

RAUF, Tayib

SADDIQUE, Muhammed Usman

SARWAR, Assad

SAVANT, Ibrahim

TARIQ, Amin Asmin

UDDIN, Shamin Mohammed

ZAMAN, Waheed

 

Hmmmm ... interesting list.

I can think of several airport security procedures that would almost certainly discourage a list of such individuals from martyring themselves. "Political correctness" prohibits me from expounding upon them.

[Tinknock50]

Here's a list of the arrested suspects:

 

ALI, Abdula Ahmed

ALI, Cossor

ALI, Shazad Khuram

HUSSAIN, Nabeel

HUSSAIN, Tanvir

HUSSAIN, Umair

ISLAM, Umar

KAYANI, Waseem

KHAN, Assan Abdullah

KHAN, Waheed Arafat

KHATIB, Osman Adam

PATEL, Abdul Muneem

RAUF, Tayib

SADDIQUE, Muhammed Usman

SARWAR, Assad

SAVANT, Ibrahim

TARIQ, Amin Asmin

UDDIN, Shamin Mohammed

ZAMAN, Waheed

 

Hmmmm ... interesting list.

I can think of several airport security procedures that would almost certainly discourage a list of such individuals from martyring themselves. "Political correctness" prohibits me from expounding upon them.

 

Yes, but then they would miss out on frisking my 92 year wheelchair-bound mother.

[RevNeal]

Yes, but then they would miss out on frisking my 92 year wheelchair-bound mother.

 

Oh, indeed. But, then, we all know that she is the real security risk, that her secret name is Florence Abdullah McCoy, and that she has plans to teach her 72 virgins how to crochet.

[Oceanwench]

I heard a comedian say the 72 virgins thing was a misprint ...

it's ONE 72-year-old virgin!

[Tinknock50]

Oh, indeed. But, then, we all know that she is the real security risk, that her secret name is Florence Abdullah McCoy, and that she has plans to teach her 72 virgins how to crochet.

 

Oh sure....blow her cover!

[CaSaGrayson]

I'm glad I didn't have my coffee in my mouth -- the computer screen would have been a mess! :D

[Robin7]

I can think of several airport security procedures that would almost certainly discourage a list of such individuals from martyring themselves. "Political correctness" prohibits me from expounding upon them.

 

As the daughter of a cop (now retired, 35 years on the California Highway Patrol, mostly in the Los Angeles area), I wish someone could explain to me in language I can understand WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH PROFILING???? I just cannot see the problem with profiling airline passengers, especially in this day and age of terrorism reaching our own shores.

 

Robin

[jhannah]

The reality is that profiling is what has to be done. Call it what you will, it's still profiling. And it's necessary in our times.

 

The sad thing about confiscation of lipstick, water and such is that it's not foolproof. An article in todays Las Vegas Sun the reporter tells how he flew yesterday and sat across from women who had lemonade, lip balm and such that they simply didn't surrender prior to boarding the plane. If they brought liquids and other substances onboard, so can you, I, or any terrorist.

[CaSaGrayson]

That is exactly why I said what I did about the whole thing yesterday being "overkill" on another thread (and got soundly thrashed for it).

 

Turns out I had two lip glosses in my purse when I went through security yesterday that I didn't realize I had, and the screener didn't find them. If a terrorist wants to get a liquid on board, he will. Unless we go to strip searches (heaven forbid) there will always be a way to get items on a plane.

 

Thank you, Robin, for that comment. We are in a war against irrational, fundamentalist Muslims, and most of them have similar names and physical traits. If this inconveniences our rational, peace-loving Muslims, I am very sorry. However, if banks were being robbed by a short, blond, blue-eyed, middle-aged woman, I would expect most bank tellers to watch my every move when I came in their door!

[RevNeal]

As the daughter of a cop (now retired, 35 years on the California Highway Patrol, mostly in the Los Angeles area), I wish someone could explain to me in language I can understand WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH PROFILING???? I just cannot see the problem with profiling airline passengers, especially in this day and age of terrorism reaching our own shores.

 

Robin,

 

Allow me to offer a response. The fear is that it will result in unjust prejudicial action against innocent people whose only "crime" is sharing ethnicity, nationality, or religious affiliation with the suspects. Rather than do this, they treat EVERYONE this way. I find both fears to be serious, but also inadequate to justifying not profiling. Safeguards to protect innocent people's civil rights could be maintained while still using a profile to help in the security process.

 

Now ... this being said ... there IS a good reason to be CAREFUL about depending upon profiling for one's security: the enemy will try to use people who won't get caught by the profile. With this in mind, however, profiling would still be useful even if not perfect or a catch-all. Also, if the profile were careful drawn and tests carefully implemented, I'm not so sure that the terrorists could so easily circumvent it. We're looking for people whose religious convictions will cause them to kill themselves while murdering others. If you make it impossible for them to do so and obtain the benefits that would otherwise accrue to them for their action, one can effectively put a stop to their action.

[Scrumpy]

The reality is that profiling is what has to be done. Call it what you will, it's still profiling. And it's necessary in our times.

 

The sad thing about confiscation of lipstick, water and such is that it's not foolproof. An article in todays Las Vegas Sun the reporter tells how he flew yesterday and sat across from women who had lemonade, lip balm and such that they simply didn't surrender prior to boarding the plane. If they brought liquids and other substances onboard, so can you, I, or any terrorist.

 

Jim - I'd have to disagree about profiling; part of that concern for everyone's rights in general. Part of it is that although we have our stereotypes about people from other countries and especially their appearances, the truth is that if someone had obtained citizenship or permanent residency in the US (sleepers) or simply false papers, that blue-eyed blond could be Syrian, for example. I don't think the bad guys necessarily make themselves obvious to us and I wouldn't be surprised if some recruits were chosen, now or in future, partially because they did not fit our preconceived ideas of who to fear.

 

DH told me that they didn't go through his laptop bag at O'Hare yesterday. He thought that maybe somehow containers show up on x-ray because his things were not hand-searched. He'd gone through the bag, removed a few things, then put all remaining articles in only one compartment of the bag - figuring that they would go through the bag and it would save them trouble when most of the compartments were clearly empty. While not condoning it, I feel this kind of lapse probably happened repeatedly. In thinking of the size of some of the prohibited items, I don't know how they will stop someone from purposely or forgetfully taking some of them through security without a hand search of all bags and patting down each passenger. The hand-pat makes my skin crawl.

[RevNeal]

I don't think the bad guys necessarily make themselves obvious to us and I wouldn't be surprised if some recruits were chosen, now or in future, partially because they did not fit our preconceived ideas of who to fear.

 

Which is why a profile shouldn't be rooted in any stereotype but, rather, in some essential aspect of our enemy's psyche and/or objective.

[AlohaPride]

I'm glad I didn't have my coffee in my mouth -- the computer screen would have been a mess! :D

 

**wipes screen** My computer, desk, keyboard, AND wall behind my desk are covered in liquid!!

 

thanks a bunch Greg, dwbias, Tinknock50, michmike, and Oceanwench. I'll be sending you all the bills for the cleaning/new techology... :D

 

There really should be a disclaimer on this board. "People without humors, please do not enter." or "Do not read while consuming liquids, especially if they are hot."

 

Now, on to the actual topic. I actually have my Bachelor of Science degree in Criminology (Criminal Inductive Profiling) and the definition of Inductive Profiling is:

 

"An Inductive Criminal Profile is one that is generalized to an individual criminal from initial behavioral and demographic characteristics shared by other criminals who have been studied in the past. It is the product of incomplete, statistical analysis and generalization (very often without comparison to norms), hence the descriptor Inductive." and "The process of profiling criminal behavior, crime scenes, and victims from the known behaviors and emotions suggested by other criminals, crime scenes, and/or victims. In essence, as the term suggests, this is reasoning from initial statistical data to specific criminal offender behavior. In any event, Inductive Criminal Profiling is generally the result of some kind of statistical analysis, or finds it's reasoning in cases outside of the case at hand."

 

An example? "80% of known serial killers that attack college students in parking lots are white males age 20-35 who live with their mothers and drive Volkswagen Bugs-- Our offender has attacked at least three female college students on separate occasions; our offender has attacked all three victims in parking lots.

Therefore, our offender, who is part of this large group who fit this "profile" called "serial killers" is a white male age 20-35, lives with his mother, and drives a VW Bug. "

 

 

Criminal Profiling IS actually used. However, the word "Profile" has become such a no-no in the media today, that those of us educated in Inductive Profiling seldom actually use the word. I agree that something needs to be done. However, what makes it illegal is to BASE the profiling on a specific "nationality." One must have other factors first raising flags before they use nationality as a factor. As it turns out, of those arrested in GB, many were white. This is why its so fundamental that we focus not only on nationality, but on behaviors.

[Heart's ease]

. However, what makes it illegal is to BASE the profiling on a specific "nationality." One must have other factors first raising flags before they use nationality as a factor. As it turns out, of those arrested in GB, many were white. This is why its so fundamental that we focus not only on nationality, but on behaviors.

 

 

Well said

[ANSalberg]

Ed Stein cartoon on the Editorial Page of the "Rocky" this morning -2 people going through a metal detector naked =Caption "They heard that somebody had exploding underwear"

[bdcbbq]

As it turns out, of those arrested in GB, many were white. This is why its so fundamental that we focus not only on nationality, but on behaviors.

 

But, they are "swarthy" white. ;)

 

<<<>>>>

 

We need to be less reactive to threats, and more proactive. There should be no reason for people to go through a security checkpoint and have to remove their shoes. We have tools that can analyze the components of other planets. Why can't we identify most/many explosives the same way. I would have thought that by now we should be able to screen all luggage and passengers for explosives without any problems.

[AlohaPride]

But, they are "swarthy" white. ;)

 

<<<>>>>

 

We need to be less reactive to threats, and more proactive. There should be no reason for people to go through a security checkpoint and have to remove their shoes. We have tools that can analyze the components of other planets. Why can't we identify most/many explosives the same way. I would have thought that by now we should be able to screen all luggage and passengers for explosives without any problems.

 

You'd think so, right? We can land on the moon, and send orbits to other planets, but we can't keep an eye on our own security...**edit**removal of political statement about ACLU**edit**<-- is that STILL too political? Darn.

[Scrumpy]

The best ways to make travel safe rely on direct face-to-face behavior analysis and interview, along with using past behavior as a predictor - we do this to a limited degree by checking watch lists, etc. We won't do all of the things security experts recommend because it costs too much money to hire the folks who are qualified to conduct the interviews. We'll inconvenience everyone who travels and continue to operate by looking mostly for dangerous items instead of looking for dangerous people. It's dollars and cents...

[michmike]

not to minimize the effects of 9/11 or what could have occurred in London, but a quick google search provided the info that 42,800 people were killed on US highways in 2004. Where's the heightened security provisions there?

 

We still allow people to talk on their cell phones while driving, eat their big macs in traffic, change cds and tapes, play with their GPS toys and run dvd players, MAYBE only in the back seat. Not to mention allowing drive thru beer stores. One can argue that in many cases those deaths were brought about by personal behaviors, but there are plenty of innocent victims there as well.

 

I just think there is an hysterical over-reaction to incidents like this, more to reassure folks that SOMETHING is being done, no matter how ill considered or ineffectual.

 

I'm willing to bet that there won't be any Alis or Hussains on my flight out of Grand Rapids next week and I'll be no more at risk than I was when I flew to Ft Lauderdale last Jan, when all my fellow travelers were packing those dangerous hair gels, toothpaste tubes and starbucks cups.

 

JMHO and I respect your right to yours.