More Bearing Problems for Millie - Millie Cancellation (Combined Thread)

[Quendryth]

I am not denying that, I am simply stating the facts about the 12/10 cancellation. Compensation is very generous (full refund and free cruise), and the free cruise can be taken on the exact same dates as the original cruise, so no problems with having to cancel flights, having wasted paid vacation days, difficulties with taking time off, etc. As for 'once in a lifetime ports'... the only difference between the Millennium cruise and the Explorer of the Seas cruise is that Casa De Campo is switched for St. Maarten. I can't believe anybody is upset about missing Casa De Campo :D

 

Floris

 

I cannot imagine anyone being upset for the exchange that Celebrity has put in place for the Dec. 10 cxl of the Millennium cruise. Certainly you cannot say you were not prepared to cruise on those dates, times, etc. the itinerary may have changed, but not the cost, the airfare, etc. You know what I mean! So I think this has turned out very well for those passengers who were already to cruise - to me where is unimportant - just get me to the ship on time!

 

I think what Celebrity has offered is more than fair - you were ready to sail - does it really matter to where?

 

Faith:D

[Canes Rule]

Vacation ruined? The only thing I know which ruins a vacation is death.

 

I guess flying 12000 miles to get on a cruise and then having it cut short by one day as well as missing two important parts of the itinerary means nothing. Not to mention sitting around the port all day just waiting to get on and then having to dis-embark and repeat the boarding process the next day. I presume this is all perfectly acceptable in your mind and part of what I may expect as the Celebrity experience. I consider a vacation full of stress rather than relaxation to be ruined. And please don't tell me there was no reason to be stressed and that I should have been busy in the corner making lemonade. I was there for two days waiting to board and each and every passenger was stressed to the max and Celebrity never could explain what was going on or when it would happen.

 

Some of us do not have unlimited funds by which we can fly around the world once again to use a 30% off coupon for our "ruined" vacation. Why would we even want to risk spending more money only to have the same thing happen again. Weren't you ever taught not to throw good money after bad.

 

Death!!! How about those vacations ruined by the death of a spouse prior to being able to cash in their FCC for a canceled cruise. How is the surviving spouse supposed to enjoy that!!

[caviargal]

I cannot imagine anyone being upset for the exchange that Celebrity has put in place for the Dec. 10 cxl of the Millennium cruise. Certainly you cannot say you were not prepared to cruise on those dates, times, etc. the itinerary may have changed, but not the cost, the airfare, etc. You know what I mean! So I think this has turned out very well for those passengers who were already to cruise - to me where is unimportant - just get me to the ship on time!

 

I think what Celebrity has offered is more than fair - you were ready to sail - does it really matter to where?

 

Faith:D

 

Yes, to some it most certainly does. The top two reasons for cruising are the itinerary and the ship. Both have changed for these folks and they are expected to be fine with that? IMO, that is taking the lemonade making to new extremes.

 

If I were offered a ship like the Explorer over the Millenium, I would not even consider it. They are night and day and the Explorer offers absolutely nothing that I find attractive. As far as a "free cruise" that implies there are no other costs involved. What about the onboard expenses, flights, pre or post cruise plans and vacation time? I disagree that everyone should just be happy that they are now getting to spend their money on a ship they did not choose from the beginning!

 

So, yes, to answer your question, it really does matter where to some and also on what ship. I do not want someone else - namely a cruise line - choosing where I travel and on what ship I get there.:cool:

[JDGGG]

I was supposed to be on the 12/10 sailing. My main complaint is that Celebrity won't place me on a 12/10 sailing on a ship in the RCI fleet. I had to pay for a suite on the Explorer for that week. Granted I am happier with the itinerary. St Maarten is much nicer than Casa de Campo. Also, Celebrity took Nassau off of the 12/10 sailing (probably due to pod problems) and the Explorer will be stopping there. I also have a mucher nicer room for the money. I'll let you know how it goes....

[thmpsn]

To ocngypz:

I think of all the posts that I have read on this thread yours is the most reasonable and sensible. Thank you.

 

I am sailing on the 11/24 Millie cruise with the changed itinerary. Although I may not be happy at missing Naples, I honestly don't know what X can do. I don't feel that X is trying to ruin my dream vacation because I won't be seeing Capri. Offering me a $300 credit is quite a bit better than offering me nothing for missing Capri. They really could do that you know. How passengers would scream then, right?

 

All I can say is if you have such awful hatefill feelings about how Celebrity is handling this situation, just get even with this company and don't ever cruise with them again. I am sure that this action will give you great satisfaction. I have cruised over 30 times on most of the cruise lines in the business and with ANY traveling, you take a chance. There are no guarantees that any vacation won't have a problem. Learn a lesson and opt for a competitor next time. Perhaps your "dream vacation" will then be absolutely perfect.

 

These boards are here to enlighten and inform. Anyone reading this thread will be aware of the M class ship problems. Forewarned is forearmed.

 

If this is your "Trip of a Lifetime" and you will never again have the opportunity to visit Naples, I am sincerely sorry for your disappointment. I hope that the other ports will live up to your expectations even if Celebrity does not.

 

Karon

[Drew B]

Yes, to some it most certainly does. The top two reasons for cruising are the itinerary and the ship. Both have changed for these folks and they are expected to be fine with that? IMO, that is taking the lemonade making to new extremes.

 

If I were offered a ship like the Explorer over the Millenium, I would not even consider it. They are night and day and the Explorer offers absolutely nothing that I find attractive. As far as a "free cruise" that implies there are no other costs involved. What about the onboard expenses, flights, pre or post cruise plans and vacation time? I disagree that everyone should just be happy that they are now getting to spend their money on a ship they did not choose from the beginning!

 

And probably the main drawback to cruising is cost. That has been taken away (or at the very least, substantially reduced). I can't imagine somebody being upset about a free cruise. If somebody doesn't like the option of the Explorer, don't take that choice. X isn't forcing you. Use the credit on any of the other myriad options in the next 18 months. Or, if one is SO upset about it, he/she doesn't have to use the credit at all. The money laid out has been refunded -- there are no real damages here, so GET OVER IT!

 

That is specifically for the cruises that were cancelled with a full refund and an FCC. The cruises that have been altered/shortened/compromised are a different story altogether. In those cases, the money is NOT refunded, and in all of the cases I've heard about, any FCC is not for anywhere near 100% of the cost. THESE cases warrant discussion and complaint MUCH more than the other type -- in these cases, money has been lost and there is a great deal of disagreement as to what fair and reasonable recompense would be.

 

HOWEVER, I really hate it when people leap to the conclusion that the cruise will be "ruined" before it is. Give it a chance. The day that a port was missed could turn out to be the very best day of the entire cruise. You could win a jackpot in the casino. You could enjoy the most perfect weather with the sea breeze in your face. You could make a new friend for life. On the other hand, if you had actually made that port, you could have been mugged. You could have missed the ship coming back. You could have been hit by a bus!

 

Basically, there are thousands of things that can "ruin" a cruise and there are thousands of things that can make a cruise wonderful. Yes, mechanical problems and altered itineraries are one of these factors. Experience the cruise and THEN complain about how it was "ruined" (if in fact it was). Don't, however, leap to the conclusion that it WILL be ruined, though, as that will likely be a self-fulfilling prophecy!

[JDGGG]

Wait! Were people able to take the 12/10 sailing on the Explorer as their free cruise?

[caviargal]

And probably the main drawback to cruising is cost. That has been taken away (or at the very least, substantially reduced). I can't imagine somebody being upset about a free cruise. If somebody doesn't like the option of the Explorer, don't take that choice. X isn't forcing you. Use the credit on any of the other myriad options in the next 18 months. Or, if one is SO upset about it, he/she doesn't have to use the credit at all. The money laid out has been refunded -- there are no real damages here, so GET OVER IT!

 

 

 

 

 

So I guess people who are travelling 12000 miles and have paid for airfare, etc. should just GET OVER IT? Is that free as well when not made through the cruise line?

 

"Real damages" are quite easy to ignore when they do not affect you personally.

[thmpsn]

Hey Folks:

Check out the front page of Cruise Critic. Even NCL can have a mechanical problem. Think NCL's restitution was any better that Celebrity's? Wonder if those passengers' "Cruise of a Lifetime" was ruined? Darn, they should have booked with X. LOL

Chill out, just kiddin!

Karon

[Drew B]

So I guess people who are travelling 12000 miles and have paid for airfare, etc. should just GET OVER IT? Is that free as well when not made through the cruise line?

 

"Real damages" are quite easy to ignore when they do not affect you personally.

 

That is exactly why an option was given for the same dates. In this instance, the company has (IMO) really stepped up to make the compensation as palatable as possible with various options.

 

Everybody would PREFER that the cruise not be cancelled, most of all X who is losing millions of dollars. I'm guessing that under the force majeure clause, they don't have to give ANYTHING beyond a refund. The FCC is their gesture (and a costly one at that) to make things right. Finally, if people had booked air/hotel through them, they would have refunded THAT, too. And if people bought travel insurance, I believe they would have gotten a refund.

 

Any travel has risk involved. I've heard of people missing out on their land vacations due to airport closures or weather issues or myriad other problems. Travellers have CHOICES to mitigate these risks, and it's not the company's fault if they choose not to use them. If you want 100% guarantee that your plans won't be spoiled, plan to enjoy your vacation at home. That's the only thing you really have control over!

 

Do I feel bad for people who are disappointed? Of COURSE I do. But I would also feel bad for them if they had a bad trip because they experienced bad weather or choppy seas or illness aboard ship or if they were forced to cancel their trip (and lose tons of money) for a medical problem or a death in the family. However, I don't blame the company any more than I would for those factors.

[thmpsn]

Drew B:

Very well said.

 

Karon

[tbelian]

oops.

 

Disregard.

[sal7202]

Okay, so what would you do with the pod problem?

 

By this time Celebrity SHOULD have an idea about the frequency of occurence of the bearing failure. What Celebrity Should do is figure out the length of time between failures for each ship, and then schedule the ship to be out of service and in drydock BEFORE the bearing fails, (it's called preventive maintenance) in that way they will minimize disruptions and passenger disappointment.

[Drew B]

Okay, so what would you do with the pod problem?

 

By this time Celebrity SHOULD have an idea about the frequency of occurence of the bearing failure. What Celebrity Should do is figure out the length of time between failures for each ship, and then schedule the ship to be out of service and in drydock BEFORE the bearing fails, (it's called preventive maintenance) in that way they will minimize disruptions and passenger disappointment.

 

AGREED! :)

[Canes Rule]

Okay, so what would you do with the pod problem?

 

By this time Celebrity SHOULD have an idea about the frequency of occurence of the bearing failure. What Celebrity Should do is figure out the length of time between failures for each ship, and then schedule the ship to be out of service and in drydock BEFORE the bearing fails, (it's called preventive maintenance) in that way they will minimize disruptions and passenger disappointment.

 

I personally think Celebrity should go one step further if they want to appear forthright with their customers. I believe that they should have very clear language in the invoice for any cruise on an M-class ship that indicates you have booked a cruise on a ship with a known mechanical defect that could adversely effect your cruise. That lets the buyer be aware of what they are truely getting into. Celebrity could also come up with a schedule of compensation based upon various scenarios such as missed days, missed ports etc..

 

Where Celebrity is currently being very unfair is in the compensation of say $300.00 across the board. That does very little to appease somebody who has booked the most expensive suite knowing they are getting the same compensation as somebody with the cheapest inside cabin. All compensation should be as a percentage of the price paid for your cabin.

[Nurse Bambi]

So I guess people who are travelling 12000 miles and have paid for airfare, etc. should just GET OVER IT? Is that free as well when not made through the cruise line?

 

"Real damages" are quite easy to ignore when they do not affect you personally.

 

Caviargal, Your last sentence sums up quite well the reaction of most posters on this board. IMHO, the biggest losers in the pod lottery are those caught on board, when the when the pod problems begin. Many also seem to feel that the recurring pod failures are not Celebrity's fault, anymore than weather or health factors causing passengers to miss ports would be Celebrity's fault. This premise I respectfully totally dissagree with. My big question is why would Celebrity customer service, when asked specifically about pod problems; deny that there was any kind of an on-going pod problem with M-Class ships.

The fact that these are not unexpected problems, but are known problems to Celebrity and are not known to an overwhelming majority of passengers, is why I feel that Celebrity IS responsible.

If Celebrity can't or won't fix the pods, then at the very least all passengers should be forewarned before they book the cruise.

[cruisinelsewhere]

So I guess people who are travelling 12000 miles and have paid for airfare, etc. should just GET OVER IT? Is that free as well when not made through the cruise line?

 

"Real damages" are quite easy to ignore when they do not affect you personally.

 

On the cancelled 12/10 Millie cruise X also offered $100 change fee restitution for those that need to change their airfare even though not booked thru X. $100 seems to be industry standard for changing airfare so that was going above and beyond in my opinion. I was booked on this cruise, I live close enough to drive to the port (oh lucky me) and I have no complaint whatsoever in the way that Celebrity handled this situation. I feel as though they were more than generous...and I am SO flexible that it makes me want to book another M class again....sure we can debate what is free, what is not...but if you are already scheduled to cruise you have already planned for your onboard and excursion expenses...all of a sudden you need to pick a different ship, different ports (and, honestly, who would miss most of the ports Millie was scheduled for anyway?), you get a full refund and your other cruise is indeed free. I think the problem with missed ports on the longer journeys is a completely different issue, but for the 12/10 cruise in question Celebrity addressed and handled it marvelously!

[Drew B]

Caviargal, Your last sentence sums up quite well the reaction of most posters on this board. IMHO, the biggest losers in the pod lottery are those caught on board, when the when the pod problems begin. Many also seem to feel that the recurring pod failures are not Celebrity's fault, anymore than weather or health factors causing passengers to miss ports would be Celebrity's fault. This premise I respectfully totally dissagree with. My big question is why would Celebrity customer service, when asked specifically about pod problems; deny that there was any kind of an on-going pod problem with M-Class ships.

The fact that these are not unexpected problems, but are known problems to Celebrity and are not known to an overwhelming majority of passengers, is why I feel that Celebrity IS responsible.

 

If Celebrity can't or won't fix the pods, then at the very least all passengers should be forewarned before they book the cruise.

 

Well, then I was one of those "biggest losers", as my one and only X cruise was the May 7th Summit cruise that was "ruined" by pod problems. I guess that (in that case, at least) the damages DID affect me personally! You'll find different responses, though, from different passengers. I had a great time on my cruise and so did many others. I was reasonably satisfied (not over the moon) with the compensation offered, and I would gladly do it all again at the same price and knowing the result in advance. Many others were not NEARLY as content as I was. Similarly, some people whose cruises are cancelled and who get a refund and a free cruise are THRILLED, while others are still upset.

 

I really appreciate it that you said "If Celebrity can't or won't fix the pods..." The fact that you are at least allowing for the possibility that fixing them is not possible is a major concession based on what you had been saying earlier. I thank you for that.

 

You are absolutely 100% right that the customer service rep should not have denied or downplayed the pods. That was stupid and bad. However, it is not out of line with how X customer service acts. Try to get an answer to ANY question, and you're likely to hear different answers any time you call, depending on who happens to answer the phones (look at the responses as to the alcohol policy, which should be totally simple and clear...). I wish they would overhaul their phone operators in customer service, as I think that is every bit as important and perhaps more "fixable" than the pods...

[tbelian]

The fact that these are not unexpected problems, but are known problems to Celebrity and are not known to an overwhelming majority of passengers, is why I feel that Celebrity IS responsible.

 

Let's talk about facts, ok? The fact of the matter is, the majority of sailings even on these supposedly 'known cripples' have gone off without incidents related to pod problems.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to sail an M-class ship, previously sailed Infinity, and look forward to our upcoming trip on Constellation.

[cruisin'cats]

I was on the second sailing of Millennium, on the Baltic Sea cruise, back in 2000. We got into Poland the night before we were supposed to, having been buzzed by the Polish Air Force as we got into port. We were docked out of town at some huge shipyard and told that we could disembark if we wanted to but there were no authorized tours/trips, etc. until the next day. We were told that there were problems with the engine and everyone was learning a new word--AZIPOD.

 

Apparently, this is still the word on everyone's lips and is still a pain in the side of Celebrity.

 

My sympathies to those who are inconvenienced by this problem. I think that we should realize that inconvenience is not something one can budget or plan for and isn't always an option for travelers. If you can swing another plan, great going! If you can't, it dampens your outlook completely. Right now, even with another cruise in the near future and the ability to reschedule, I'd hate to give up the Millie cruise just because MENTALLY we need a cruise and have hung our hopes on getting away and having a problem free week at sea.

 

I actually came to this forum because I recently saw a photo taken by someone who works for my DH and who came back from the Milie's Med. cruise and showed us a HUGE DENT in the side of the ship just above the water line! I was wondering if anyone knew anything about that. Someone have some parking problems recently?

 

As far as cruise lines go, our Celebrity experiences, other than having to spend the night in Poland instead of at sea, have been positive.

 

If you want to spend a little more money and have a totally different experience, try OCEANIA! What a difference a few hundred bucks can make! What you give up in cabin space, you make up for in delicious food, top notch service, and great itineraries. The other thing I have to say--last spring, Oceania had an issue with customers being bumped through a misunderstanding and the Cruise Critic Board went to town on this topic to help those misplaced by the problem. Unlike here, where Anne (who is a doll!) has to give us information and explanations, the CEO of Oceania got on the message board HIMSELF to answer questions and act on the issue. I was impressed with that. I'd love to see Celebrity have an executive answer to a message board of concerned customers. Of course, there are concerned customers who'd just be happy if Celebrity had found a way to fix the darned pods without impacting their cruise too.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed that I'll be at sea on a healthy Millennium on New Year's Eve...

[LeftcoastBC]

Okay, so what would you do with the pod problem?

 

By this time Celebrity SHOULD have an idea about the frequency of occurence of the bearing failure. What Celebrity Should do is figure out the length of time between failures for each ship, and then schedule the ship to be out of service and in drydock BEFORE the bearing fails, (it's called preventive maintenance) in that way they will minimize disruptions and passenger disappointment.

 

As a two time loser/winneer of the X lottery

 

I AGREE !!!!

 

ps It's a Mermaid pod that X has, not AZI ..... their's works.

[Nurse Bambi]

Well, then I was one of those "biggest losers", as my one and only X cruise was the May 7th Summit cruise that was "ruined" by pod problems. I guess that (in that case, at least) the damages DID affect me personally! You'll find different responses, though, from different passengers. I had a great time on my cruise and so did many others. I was reasonably satisfied (not over the moon) with the compensation offered, and I would gladly do it all again at the same price and knowing the result in advance. Many others were not NEARLY as content as I was. Similarly, some people whose cruises are cancelled and who get a refund and a free cruise are THRILLED, while others are still upset.

 

I really appreciate it that you said "If Celebrity can't or won't fix the pods..." The fact that you are at least allowing for the possibility that fixing them is not possible is a major concession based on what you had been saying earlier. I thank you for that.

 

You are absolutely 100% right that the customer service rep should not have denied or downplayed the pods. That was stupid and bad. However, it is not out of line with how X customer service acts. Try to get an answer to ANY question, and you're likely to hear different answers any time you call, depending on who happens to answer the phones (look at the responses as to the alcohol policy, which should be totally simple and clear...). I wish they would overhaul their phone operators in customer service, as I think that is every bit as important and perhaps more "fixable" than the pods...

 

Hi Drew,

When you are saying many others were not happy, I am sure that you realize that well over one thousand were not satisfied. I think it is is great that you were "content" with your cruise and would be happy to do one-half of a cruise all over again. In saying "Celebrity can't/won't fix the pods" is hardly a major consession, I just was trying to have any responses stick to the point of the post. You seem to feel that they are not fixable and I simply disagree. When calling X, three different customer service reps gave me the same story about the pods.

Merely being upfront and notifying all passengers of the possibility of pod problems occurring would solve a lot of problems from passengers, most of whom have absolutely no way of being forewarned about this possibility.

I guess if 16 pod failures is not enough to force something to be done, I would like to know what the number of pod failures would have to be for everyone to agree that something should be done. Every passenger should make their own decision on wether to sail or not, but every passenger should be informed of the increased risk of problems because of the possibility of a pod failure.

[Canes Rule]

but every passenger should be informed of the increased risk of problems because of the possibility of a pod failure.

 

This has been my contention as well. Cruise Critic is great for getting the word out, however I would hazard a guess that less than 10% of the passengers have even heard of this forum or the potential for a pod failure during their cruise.

 

Why is there such resistance on this board or by Celebrity themselves to simply state the fact up front during booking to each passenger "........if you sail on a M-class ship there is a potential that your vacation may be adversely effected by a known mechanical defect in the propulsion system that historically occurs once a year...." If they were governed by the consumer laws of this country this would be a required disclosure. I am not sure why everyone is so willing to give Celebrity a pass on this issue and just shove it under the table. Celebrity has no incentive what so ever to correct the issues as long as they have customers who apparently don't care if they receive what they paid for or not. This is not a weather issue or an unforseen mechanical breakdown as those are perfectly understandable and beyond anyones control. This is a known mechanical defect for which Celebrity should be held accountable for.

[Drew B]

Hi Drew,

 

When you are saying many others were not happy, I am sure that you realize that well over one thousand were not satisfied. I think it is is great that you were "content" with your cruise and would be happy to do one-half of a cruise all over again. In saying "Celebrity can't/won't fix the pods" is hardly a major consession, I just was trying to have any responses stick to the point of the post. You seem to feel that they are not fixable and I simply disagree. When calling X, three different customer service reps gave me the same story about the pods.

Merely being upfront and notifying all passengers of the possibility of pod problems occurring would solve a lot of problems from passengers, most of whom have absolutely no way of being forewarned about this possibility.

 

I guess if 16 pod failures is not enough to force something to be done, I would like to know what the number of pod failures would have to be for everyone to agree that something should be done. Every passenger should make their own decision on wether to sail or not, but every passenger should be informed of the increased risk of problems because of the possibility of a pod failure.

 

I don't recall if you were on this cruise, Nurse Bambi. I don't believe so, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I don't believe AT ALL that over a thousand were dissatisfied by the end of the cruise. At least not strongly dissatisfied. That number that got bandied about was the number of people who signed something at some point during the cruise. Well, I am one of the people who signed something (a list of our contact information so that people could get in touch later if need be). I signed this list on the day we became aware of the pod issue during the very heated and frustrating meeting in the theater. I later cooled down AND the compensation from X later went up. Both of these factors contributed to my eventual satisfaction. However, I would guess that I am included in that number of over a thousand, despite the fact that I ended up quite content.

 

Even if I grant you, though, that over a thousand were dissatisfied -- that still means that nearly a thousand WEREN'T dissatisfied (there were over 1900 passengers on the cruise). That is a statistically significant number that should tell anybody that it is not a homogenous response. In other words, pod problems do not NECESSARILY equate with a ruined vacation.

 

I'm not denying that it possible to have your vacation ruined by these pods. I'm not disagreeing with you that X should be honest and upfront about the potential problem. My major point here is that there are tons of factors that go into whether or not a cruise is enjoyable. This is one of them. Avoiding M-Class ships, though, does NOT necessarily increase your chances of having a great vacation. Any other ship you choose on any other line has its own problems. You might choose to sail Princess, instead, and the ship may catch fire or tilt over, resulting in numerous injuries. You might choose to sail NCL instead and it might run aground. You just never know! I don't think you're necessarily doing anybody any favors in scaring them away from X or from the M-Class ships if their other options aren't certain to be any better!

 

And you mention 16 pod failures. Does anybody know the total number of successful sailings by M-Class ships in that time? I'd love to know the actual percentage of sailings that have been "ruined".

[ocngypz]

Okay, so what would you do with the pod problem?

 

By this time Celebrity SHOULD have an idea about the frequency of occurence of the bearing failure. What Celebrity Should do is figure out the length of time between failures for each ship, and then schedule the ship to be out of service and in drydock BEFORE the bearing fails, (it's called preventive maintenance) in that way they will minimize disruptions and passenger disappointment.

 

The propulsion system is constantly monitored. However, there is no frequency of occurence. That's the problem. It's not like, you know if you have older 4 cyl Mitsubishi engine you have to replace the timing belt at 60k.

These thrust bearings have a mind and life of their own.