Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Conte Di Savoia]

Franu, thanks for providing the link to Orient Line's new web site. I'll be following it to see what they plan to do to refurbish the ship and bring her up to current standards. I'm not sure they will change her funnel: It is iconic at this point. Her interiors do need some freshening, however. They have a worn, 80's modern look, but if they spend the money she could be quite spiffy. I wonder how Transocean views changing her name to Marco Polo II. That sounds like a marketing nightmare to have two ships with nearly identical names but sailing for two different companies.

 

 

I just received a brochure from Saga featuring their new acquisition, Quest for Adventure, ex Astoria, Astor, also a vessel with lots of character. She will carry only 450 passengers and they claim that they will be refurbishing her. The brochure has interior pictures labeled "before refurbishment." The cruises are port intensive and include quite alot for the price: tips, wines with lunch and dinner and tours in most ports. They also have several stops where the ship overnights. That is quite unusual these days.

 

So, small ship lovers, there are two very interesting possibilities on the horizon. Someone has been reading the thread.

[Druke I]

Funnels are aft for a good reason.

 

Modern ships have their propulsion machinery (diesels and generators) aft of midships, and funnels "draw" better with a "straight shot", much like chimneys on houses. Too many bends and they won't draw properly.

 

Older ships, with boilers and steam-turbines, had the bulk of their machinery midships - hence the funnels were midship. Of course way back when, with multiple funnels, there were banks of boilers down in the bowels of the ship, fed by the "black gang", covered in coal dust.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Parts of MAXIM GORKIY's interiors do look rather dated and '80s-ish, but I hope they don't change the rest of the ship too much - she is the most original ship of her type out there.

 

There is a big contiguous swath of original public rooms I'd hate to see destroyed. We have the Volga Bar, the Zighuli Club, the Library, the Gallery (containing the shops and connecting all these), and the Theatre... All mostly as they were in 1969. The connective spaces - stairtowers, vestibules, passageways - are mostly original too and come to think of it, the cabins have not been changed too much either.

 

Of course there are other parts of the interiors that have been heavily modified but overall she is probably the best-preserved major vintage ship out there. She's a lot more original than MONA LISA, OCEANIC, SAGA ROSE, SAGA RUBY or any other large "classic" ship that remains, except ROTTERDAM of course, and she's a museum piece now (albeit, I am sure, a spectacular one). MAXIM GORKIY retains her original layout, her original profile and a large part of her original decor... Which you really can't say of any other major ship this age that I can think of. OCEANIC ticks the profile box but not layout or decor, the Sagas have none of the three (sadly), MONA LISA has some original decor left but the profile and layout are radically changed, etc.

 

As for QUEST FOR ADVENTURE, she looks quite appealing. I would like to sail in either her or SPIRIT OF ADVENTURE. (Minimum age is 21, not 50 like the "real" Saga ships!)

 

I do not think we will see Saga building a new ship - too expensive. Even if the ship was a conventional new ship (not styled to look like the current Saga sisters, which would be so expensive I don't even want to think about it), I think the price would be too high for Saga to make money of the ship. (Look at what e.g. the new Oceania ships are costing - but Oceania can bring in money in a way Saga can't.) The future of Saga cruising is in the Spirit of Adventure product, not the "classic" Saga product. I think after SAGA ROSE retires in 2010 it will be just RUBY as a "traditional" Saga ship while Spirit of Adventure will be the "growth" side of the operation.

[franu]

I've been reading the Orient Lines forum and am so happy for you that your phoenix will rise from the ashes in a slightly different form.

Ruby, I love your pun, intended or otherwise. As you know the ship is coming from Phoenix-Reisen.

 

Parts of MAXIM GORKIY's interiors do look rather dated and '80s-ish, but I hope they don't change the rest of the ship too much - she is the most original ship of her type out there.

 

Doug , Never having seen the ship I reserve my comments. My only concern is the cold feeling in the placement of seating and the awful, uncomfortable looking chairs in the dining rooms. Ten minutes is one of those chairs and I will be dining on room service all month.

 

I hope that Mr. Heller replaces them with something more appropriate for our backs. Otherwise I have no problem with older looks.

Fran

[Saga Ruby]

We have the Volga Bar, the Zighuli Club, the Library, the Gallery (containing the shops and connecting all these), and the Theatre... All mostly as they were in 1969.

 

As for QUEST FOR ADVENTURE, she looks quite appealing. I would like to sail in either her or SPIRIT OF ADVENTURE. (Minimum age is 21, not 50 like the "real" Saga ships!)

 

Doug, about Maxim Gorky you said, "we" have . . . ." When were you on Maxim Gorky? I know you'll like the "Adventure" ships and can look forward to sailing on them altho' perhaps you will want to rejoin the MP2 after her changeover?

 

By the bye, have you passed the age of 21 yet? If so, congrats on having a full range of ships to choose from, give or take the Saga Sisters. I'm sure you look forward to expanding your maritime horizons.

 

Ruby, I love your pun, intended or otherwise. As you know the ship is coming from Phoenix-Reisen. Fran

 

Oh, Fran, I'm so happy you liked my pun! I knew you'd get it! It is rare that I pay attention to the ebb and flow of owners to ships, but this one popped into my head and, now that I've slept on it, it's gone. I know you are excited about going back to sea on MP2 and hope the new, improved Maxim Gorky will be to your liking by the time they get her all freshened up with a new bib and tucker.

 

Ruby

[dougnewmanatsea]

Doug , Never having seen the ship I reserve my comments. My only concern is the cold feeling in the placement of seating and the awful, uncomfortable looking chairs in the dining rooms. Ten minutes is one of those chairs and I will be dining on room service all month.

I can't comment on the comfort of the chairs as I've not sat in them... Well, they do look rather uncomfortable, but maybe they're better in real life. If not, I hope they get replaced.

 

I must say, I have been on some ships with incredibly uncomfortable furniture. I have never understood this - don't the people buying the stuff sit in it first?

[dougnewmanatsea]

Doug, about Maxim Gorky you said, "we" have . . . ." When were you on Maxim Gorky? I know you'll like the "Adventure" ships and can look forward to sailing on them altho' perhaps you will want to rejoin the MP2 after her changeover?

Sorry, I haven't been on her. I didn't mean to imply that - I meant "we have" as in, "it still exists".

 

I do plan on joining MARCO POLO II for a cruise next year, though.

 

I turn 21 in March.

[Saga Ruby]

I must say, I have been on some ships with incredibly uncomfortable furniture. I have never understood this - don't the people buying the stuff sit in it first?

 

I absolutely agree with you. My mother went to a hairdresser for 30 years and, without fail, when she came home from her weekly appointment, she talked about her back being stiff.

 

I finally thought to ask why she was so uncomfortable. She replied, "The owner's wife has the most upright, correct posture I have ever seen and she picked out the chairs!"

 

Ruby

[seabourndt]

as a member of ocean liner society we are getting an english group on MAXIM GORKY cruise in september from BREMERHAVEN to nlorwegian fjords and back. so i will have a chance to see what she looks like inside. i saw her in soton a few weeks ago, a lovely looking ship. i too plan on going on her next year.

dave

[Host Sharon]

Wow, I last saw Maxim Gorky at sea in 1978 at the North Cape, with Vistafjord. You cannot mistake her distinctive funnel anywhere.

[franu]

Reference the new Marco Polo II - while I agree that it is a nice looking ship, I do hope they change the funnel configuration. I think the current funnel detracts from the ship's appearance.

 

Michael, At this point I think that the funnel, so distinct, will help me to recognise it. It certainly is unique,

 

You cannot mistake her distinctive funnel anywhere.

 

ships cat, I looked at your photo and started to think,which one is the MG. Then realized, silly me, look at the funnel. Looking forward to seeing and experiencing it.

Fran

[Saga Ruby]

Have you made choices for shore excursions for your upcoming Black Sea cruise? Since I'll be following in and out of your footsteps, I'm curious to know what ports and sights interest you.

 

Our Prinsendam itinerary is heavily weighted on the Turkish side of things. Amongst other locales, we will visit Sinop and Trabzon which are on the far northeastern coastline of Turkey, just north of Iraq. I wonder if HAL will offer a day trip to Mosul?

 

Are you also cruising thru stops in the Greek Islands? The only island I have an interest in is Santorini for some shopping.

 

That photo of Vistafjord and Maxim Gorky is fascinating in many ways. That's quite a collection of pix you have!

 

Ruby

[Druke I]

Talking about funnels, I think I am having one of those dreaded "senior moments".

 

Was it the Galileo and Cristoforo Columbo that had the lattice-like funnels that looked something like the Gun Directors' Towers on US Navy pre World War II battleships? The Olympic Stadium "Birdcage in Beijing also looks like that.

 

Whichever ship it was, the Maxim Gorky's upper funnel reminds me of that!

[dougnewmanatsea]

The lattice-like funnels were on MICHELANGELO and RAFFAELLO.

 

MAXIM GORKIY is a few years newer than they were. The mid to late 1960s were certainly an era when ship designers were trying out new funnel designs. QE2's original funnel is another example (she is the same age as MAXIM).

[Druke I]

Thanks Doug for the clarification.

 

Couldn't for the life of me think of the correct names of those ships.

[Saga Ruby]

Are there going to be two ships on the water simultaneously with the same name, give or take Roman numerals?

 

Ruby

[franu]

Are there going to be two ships on the water simultaneously with the same name, give or take Roman numerals?

Yes, it seems so. I wonder how they will do when they are both in Antarctica or its surrounds. I hope no one runs into problems and then the assistance goes to the wrong one.

 

I believe that Global paid Star Cruises an additional amount to carry on the name. Will they sue?

Fran

[Host Sharon]

Have you made choices for shore excursions for your upcoming Black Sea cruise? Since I'll be following in and out of your footsteps, I'm curious to know what ports and sights interest you.

 

Our Prinsendam itinerary is heavily weighted on the Turkish side of things. Amongst other locales, we will visit Sinop and Trabzon which are on the far northeastern coastline of Turkey, just north of Iraq. I wonder if HAL will offer a day trip to Mosul?

 

Are you also cruising thru stops in the Greek Islands? The only island I have an interest in is Santorini for some shopping.

 

That photo of Vistafjord and Maxim Gorky is fascinating in many ways. That's quite a collection of pix you have!

 

Ruby

 

Yes Ruby, I have booked all the ones I want - Palma I will do my own thing; in Athens I have chosen the Acropolis, Plaka and lunch in a restaurant in one of the oldest neighbourhoods serving the food of ancient Greece; in Instanbul I will go to the Blue Mosque, St Sophia and the Topkapi Palace, then I want to wander on my own for the afternoon, probably to the Spice Market; Sochi I have to do a tour or get my own visa!, so a walk along the promenade, visit to sanatorium and State Winter Theatre and Riviera Park; Yalta I have chosen to go to Balaklava and Sevastopol plus a Crimean lunch in local restaurant - whatever that might be! We also visit the underground secret Soviet Naval Base there. In Odessa I am doing a guided walk inc. the Potemkin Steps and Vorontsov Palace for half a day and the aftenoon I have a musical concert at the Odessa Music Academy. In Constanta I couldn't decide so will wait until I am on board and can see the port presentation. Nessebur I am again doing a walking tour, mainly featuring the medieval churches, and will then stay on to explore on my own; I have visited Ephesus before so have chosen St John's Basilica and the Shrine of the Virgin Mary from Kusadasi; Santorini - I will go to Oia and in Cadiz, which I have again been to before, I will explore on my own again.

Phew - I feel exhausted already!! Only a week to go now

[dougnewmanatsea]

I was under the impression that the new owners of MARCO POLO had paid Star Cruises for the right to use that name.

 

One wonders what they think of the name of MARCO POLO II.

 

There is also a big Croatian ferry called MARKO POLO but I doubt many people think about that.

 

Anyway, it cannot be as bad as the name EXPLORER. For a time there were simultaneously two cruise ships called EXPLORER and another called EXPLORER II. One EXPLORER sank in the Antarctic and EXPLORER II is back to her old name of MINERVA so it is not so bad as it was now, but then we have just gained NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC EXPLORER to confuse things a little bit.

 

And of course you have people who say things like, "I was on the FREEDOM last month" and inevitably I have no idea whether they mean CARNIVAL FREEDOM or FREEDOM OF THE SEAS. (I'm not even sure whether Carnival copied Royal Caribbean or vice versa.)

[Kapricorn]

I was under the impression that the new owners of MARCO POLO had paid Star Cruises for the right to use that name.

 

One wonders what they think of the name of MARCO POLO II.

 

Suppose if the new owners of Marco Polo gets a second ship and wants to carry on the same-name tradition, that ship would have to be named Marco Polo III even though she is second in that fleet? How truly bizarre - and confusing!

 

Donald.

[franu]

As stated in Seatrade while discussing the name "Heller said he is not concerned about confusion as that vessel is not currently marketed in North America, which will be Orient Lines’ primary customer source."

 

I still believe that it is a risk management issue. As both ships will be sailing in Antarctica at the same time, it becomes an issue of safety not marketing.

 

Fran

[Conte Di Savoia]

GOOD MORNING ALL!!!

 

Did anyone happen to see "SS UNITED STATES, LADY IN WAITING". This is a superb documentary that is making the rounds on PBS. Congratulations to Mark Perry, who co-produced the film. It is a wonderful compilation of the history of the "BIG U". Mark Perry is the web master of our Ocean Liner Collectibles group and has done remarkable things on the internet with his film collection on You Tube. You will recognize him as Shipgeek.

 

Ross

 

This documentary recently appeared on our local PBS station. Don't miss it. This is a great telling of the story of United States. its past present and future(?). I never sailed aboard her but among people I knew who did, the impression was that she was a "love it" or "hate it" ship. Some found her cold and impersonal while others were smitten with her technological advances. However you might feel, any ship lover can't help but get teary eyed watching this program. Here is Mark Perry's Ship Geek website. It's worth opening just to hear the deep tone of the horn blasting!!

[Druke I]

Nice whistle (horn) indeed.

 

One reason I particularly enjoy sailing from San Francisco is that the ships tie up at a finger pier, and when backing into the shipping channel, give the required three blasts of the whistle (horn). They often then give another long blast just before sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge, in salute to those pedestrians on the Bridge waving "bon voyage" to the ship.

 

Makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, and brings a tear to my eye every time.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

THANKS CONTE!!!

 

I watched the documentary again...so enjoyable.

 

AHHHH DRUKE!!! What was it that E.B. White said about the sound of the ship horns? He wrote a great paragraph describing a ship departing.

 

Ross

[Saga Ruby]

A hearty Bon Voyage as you turn toward your upcoming cruise and your Black Sea adventure.

 

Needless to say, I'll be keen to see your photos and hear about the Black Sea ports. You have me wondering if I would need an individual visa for Ukraine if I don't take the escorted tours.

 

Have a wonderful time!

 

Ruby