Orient Beach or Not?

[Annefran]

My 14 yr old daughter & I are cruising on AOS in April 07. I was thinking of doing the St Maarten Rendevouz excursion through the ship. You do a bit of site seeing and then takes you to Orient Beach for a few hours. It includes lunch, lounge chart and drink. It's adjacent to the Nude beach. My question to those of you who have been there is, will we be OK where they are taking us? Or will we be near the Nude beach area? Not sure I want my daughter to take in all the "sites" :eek: or not, lol. Any thoughts?

[beannie]

IMHO, I would blindfold her and go for it. We did go and definetly did see nude bathers ..walking around too. On the serious side, that is a decision for you to make.

[Zeno]

Cruiseship tours drop off people at about mid-beach (not near Club Orient, the naturist resort where most nude people will be).

 

However - if you don't want to see any nude people at all, then don't go to Orient beach. There will always be the occasional nude person walking along the beach.

 

Your decision - but when we spent a week there a couple of years ago, there were several families at our hotel (which was about mid-beach) and none of the children seemed traumatized by the sight of the occasional nude person strolling by.

[Annefran]

Cruiseship tours drop off people at about mid-beach (not near Club Orient, the naturist resort where most nude people will be).

 

However - if you don't want to see any nude people at all, then don't go to Orient beach. There will always be the occasional nude person walking along the beach.

 

Your decision - but when we spent a week there a couple of years ago, there were several families at our hotel (which was about mid-beach) and none of the children seemed traumatized by the sight of the occasional nude person strolling by.

 

Thanks for the input. I'd be OK with the nudity thing, although I wouldn't partake, lol. I will need to ask my daughter to see how she feels. We'd probably just have a good laugh if we saw any nudist pass us by. Thanks for your opinions, greatly appreciated!

[beannie]

When we were there it was quite a laugh. Without getting into specifics,

a man walking on the beach with his arms folded at his chest, he was quite a sight. Most of the ladies we were with tried not to look:D :D

[beary]

I wouldn't have too much trouble if we were at least half way down the beach. But right next to the nude part of the beach can get a little strange when a few of the folks get to drinking to much. It is a wonderful beach and well worth visiting. Also, we found out about St. Martins local traditions by accident when our family rented a car and visited several beaches. Our kids where between 10 and 16 at the time. Every beach has some toplessness, but since we didn't know about these traditions when we came to the island, the views came more as a surprise and I think made the experience more fun for the family, and less of a big event. I wouldn't say a thing and deal with it when after it comes. Our kids didn't waste a lot of time with it.

 

Kevin

[EmJakeBubbie]

IMHO, young eyes will only view nudity with shock or giggles if adult presents that opinion. We did the beach day w/lunch at Orient Beach and did definitely view many topless females and quite a few thongs on both M's and F's - only saw one male completely nude, quite content in his skin, taking a brisk stroll on the beach and looking to see who was looking at him (he had a huge grin on his face). There is nothing sexual about this experience. I found it neither shocking nor humorous. It just is what it is and folks that enjoy nature have found a place to completely immerse in this style. I was concerned about What they might be sunburning! I thoroughly enjoyed the mahi mahi lunch (friends tried the ribs and were disappointed). The only negative about the tour were the terribly inferior toilets and changing areas.

[Gingerxxoo]

We stayed in Saint Martin, on Orient Beach, for a week with our teenage daughter. The nudity did not bother her at all. Most of the naturists are older people who are just minding their own business. She did get a kick out of the older man jogging with only tennis shoes and a fanny pack on...

[bellybutton]

We stayed in Saint Martin, on Orient Beach, for a week with our teenage daughter. The nudity did not bother her at all. Most of the naturists are older people who are just minding their own business. She did get a kick out of the older man jogging with only tennis shoes and a fanny pack on...

 

When we talked to our kids about OB my 12 year old son was LET'S GO! My 14 DD said I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY OLD GRANDPAs NAKED:) We are going:) and will have a good time. I know my Hubby and DS will:)

[pg.]

Well be have been there without our kids and didn't mind seeing the occasional prune in a g string , or naked, but, this time we are taking our three kids( 16 boy, 14 yr old boy and 10 yr old girl) and I don't think I want my ten yr old girl to see a naked man yet. Topless, no biggie, but I figure the naked parts of a 80 yr old male are scary enough for me, so I don't want to turn her off men for life! LOL

 

PS , sorry males, I just happen to think to plums hanging down to ones knees do not fit in with my concept of "the human body is beautiful", guess I am too superficial, LOL

[212cruiser]

Well be have been there without our kids and didn't mind seeing the occasional prune in a g string , or naked, but, this time we are taking our three kids( 16 boy, 14 yr old boy and 10 yr old girl) and I don't think I want my ten yr old girl to see a naked man yet. Topless, no biggie, but I figure the naked parts of a 80 yr old male are scary enough for me, so I don't want to turn her off men for life! LOL

 

PS , sorry males, I just happen to think to plums hanging down to ones knees do not fit in with my concept of "the human body is beautiful", guess I am too superficial, LOL

 

Superficial? That would be charitable. Disrespectful and ignorant immediately come to mind. Would you please post a picture of yourself so we can comment about your appearance? Thanks.

[kal]

That's certainly plenty of reason to stay away from one of the TOP 4 best beaches in the entire Caribbean.

[2xhawaii]

I go to St. Martin every Easter. I have three sons, 14, 11 and 8. They have been seeing nudist for 5 years. We tend to make a bigger deal out of it then they do. In the beginning they notice, then they dont. There are a lot of nudist walking around the entire orient beach. So if you worry about her seeing nudist, thats not the place to take her. We go there one day every year. We stay at the Belair hotel, next door to the Divi Divi. You may see the occasional topless, but not any nudist there. It not a big beach like orient, but it has a couple of pools, you can rent jet ski's and there is a boat sunk there for snorkeling. We venture out to all the beaches, however, love coming back to little bay. We will be there the same time you arrive, at the Belair. Email me if you have any questions vvorhies@hennioonandwalsh.com

 

Ronnie

[gtaylor]

By all means, if you don't want to go to Orient, then don't go; but I also have to add that "nudist" (or even 'naturist') doesn't equate to "people that just want to spend some time on a beautiful beach without any clothes on".

 

What ever happened to live and let live?

 

gary

[pg.]

212 your request was stupid, because I KNOW that I could turn young boys off sex for life if I walked around naked. Your assumption that I think I am better then others is silly, I am one who wold keep my clothes on not out of modesty only, but out of fear of seeing people fainting in horror. LOL , And if you think the average 16 yr old boy, raised in a culture where nudity in public is not the norm, would not react in a pretty um, interesting way to seeing a nude women is showing what you know about teenage boys. Human nature is what it is, just wishing we could all live with seeing complete nudity and not reacting in public does not make the reaction of some people go away.

I'm a middle aged women, and trust me, if I saw Brad Pitt walking down the beach naked, I would NOT look the other way ,, or think ho hum... .

As a parent I am not ready yet to deal with a 14 yr old drooling. And, drool he would.. sorry he has not been exposed to a naturist lifestyle , so would react, who wouldn't

[kal]

Take a few newspapers for the boy. :D

[TheJunks]

In St Martin/Maarten, the beaches on the French side are typically topless. Orient Beach is no exception. The totally nude bathers (from the colony) will stroll by and linger but keep to themselves for the most part. As for the rest of the beaches, you can expect to see topless bathers.

[212cruiser]

212 your request was stupid, because I KNOW that I could turn young boys off sex for life if I walked around naked. Your assumption that I think I am better then others is silly, I am one who wold keep my clothes on not out of modesty only, but out of fear of seeing people fainting in horror. LOL , And if you think the average 16 yr old boy, raised in a culture where nudity in public is not the norm, would not react in a pretty um, interesting way to seeing a nude women is showing what you know about teenage boys. Human nature is what it is, just wishing we could all live with seeing complete nudity and not reacting in public does not make the reaction of some people go away.

I'm a middle aged women, and trust me, if I saw Brad Pitt walking down the beach naked, I would NOT look the other way ,, or think ho hum... .

As a parent I am not ready yet to deal with a 14 yr old drooling. And, drool he would.. sorry he has not been exposed to a naturist lifestyle , so would react, who wouldn't

Trust me, you don't turn-off only young boys, even with your clothing still on.

[beachchick]

In St Martin/Maarten, the beaches on the French side are typically topless. Orient Beach is no exception. The totally nude bathers (from the colony) will stroll by and linger but keep to themselves for the most part. As for the rest of the beaches, you can expect to see topless bathers.

 

There are sometimes totally nude sunbathers on other parts of Orient Beach who are not staying at Club Orient (which is a fully clothing-optional resort, not a nudist/naturist "colony" BTW). Most fully nude folks will be down at the Club Orient end of the beach, but of course you're right that some of them stroll the whole beach. It's just that we saw several fully nude sunbathers who were not guests at Club Orient. It's not illegal along the length of the beach, but it's not encouraged either (except at CO of course). There will almost certainly be many topless women all along the beach (as well as all other beaches on the French side of the island and some of the beaches on the Dutch side).

 

I understand that many (perhaps most) Americans consider topless/nude sunbathing a "sexual" issue and that many US teenage boys (and adult males too) are unable (or maybe unwilling) to "see" it any other way. However, these are different cultures with different customs where the purpose of topless/nude sunbathing is simply to enjoy the sun. Others have written that Orient Beach is not a "pick up bar with sand"--and that's exactly right. It's unfortunate that so many Americans cannot appreciate the difference. If seeing less than perfect bodies is going to "turn off" someone for life, then (IMO) they've got pretty serious issues regarding the human body. It's fine to not want to see topless/nude sunbathers at all. It's fine to want to see "perfect" bodies (who doesn't?). However, we don't get to decide who is "worthy" any more than we get to decide which women should wear skimpy thong bikinis or which men should wear the teeny, tiny speedos. What's not fine is expecting other cultures to change to suit us. What's not fine is calling older people names. Sorry, but calling an older person a "prune" is, IMO, rude. I can't for the life of me figure out why an 80 y/o's parts would be "scary" whereas Brad Pitt's would not. One final thought, laughing at others because of their bodies or sunbathing preferences is also rude. Naturally, we all will chuckle, privately, with our family or friends about whatever we find amusing; just don't do it in public or in a way that is hurtful to someone else. And no, a nude sunbather isn't "asking" for anyone to laugh at him/her or bringing it on themselves. A nude sunbather is, amazingly enough, simply there to enjoy the sun. (Yes, I do realize there are a few exceptions in folks who do go nude in order to get "attention," but they are not typical.)

 

AnneFran: You've got the right idea in talking it over with your DD. If she would be uncomfortable, then you absolutely should respect that. If she's fine with it, please, encourage her to keep her amusement over the clothing (or lack thereof) choices of others private. Whether you'll be "okay" with the area that the ship excursion goes is entirely a personal choice. In any case, I hope you both have a lovely day.

 

beachchick

[212cruiser]

I understand that many (perhaps most) Americans consider topless/nude sunbathing a "sexual" issue and that many US teenage boys (and adult males too) are unable (or maybe unwilling) to "see" it any other way.

 

Obviously your observation was well intended and expressed. However, and only because we are on this topic, you should observe the unnecessary (and I believe unintended) misandry implied by your remark, above. You even made note in another sentence of your reply how, in your opinion, everyone would appreciate a nice body. Do you have teenage girls? Have you watched MTV, been to the movies or watched network dramas in the past 20 years? If you are still of the belief that only US boys and men act in the way you described, and not US girls and women, you must live in a cave.

[pg.]

212 you have issues.

[pg.]

Not being able to " for the life of me" see the difference between Brad Pitt and an eighty yr old man is absolutely hilarious.. we are not talking about their worth as people we ( I ) was referring solely to their physical appearance.

Lets not pretend and act all " holier then thou" .. I can freely admit that an attractive 20 yr old female is going to get a lot more looks( admiring) then an elderly lady , geesh, but, hey if you really don't see any physical difference, then I guess you are an amazing person.

I also think it makes no difference at all which nationality of male we are talking about... American men see and react to an attractive nude person absolutely no differently then any other nationality of man. ( Same with women)

Cultural norms do exist and affect a persons perception of any situation, , but human nature is universal.

 

My point would not be that it is ok for my kids to only see one type of person, my point is that there are many types of persons nude at the beach, not that it is " a pickup bar with sand" who came up with that idea.

I jokingly made the comment about the naked 80 yr old, and it is just darn true for me, but, I guess we agree thAt you just don't see things the same way, you are a much better person.

 

As for a public forum, get over yourselves, I have seen so many posts on this board about " chair hogs" ,,, and lazy self centered people who don't dress formally enough " smelly smokers" and low life booze smugglers,, yet I am pretty sure NO ONE actually says those things to any of the above mentioned type of peoples FACES .

 

Still don't want to see the prunes so won't go where the likelyhood is greatest, it is my responsibility to control that, not the the naturists who are doing what they want in a perfectly legal venue.

[beachchick]

Obviously your observation was well intended and expressed. However, and only because we are on this topic, you should observe the unnecessary (and I believe unintended) misandry implied by your remark, above. You even made note in another sentence of your reply how, in your opinion, everyone would appreciate a nice body. Do you have teenage girls? Have you watched MTV, been to the movies or watched network dramas in the past 20 years? If you are still of the belief that only US boys and men act in the way you described, and not US girls and women, you must live in a cave.

 

I'm sure you realize that my remarks were not addressed specifically and solely to you, but also addressed statements and observations of several other members. In answer to your questions: Yes, I'm a mom with a now-adult DD. No, I don't "live in a cave." Yes, I've seen MTV, etc.; in fact, in other threads I've noted that we Americans can tend to be rather hypocritical when it comes to nudity and sexual matters. We think it's perfectly fine for 12 y/o girls to wear "hooker" attire; we buy into the MTV, super-sexualized hype with young women and men (really, little more than children) singing and dancing in ways that are far more "mature" than is appropriate. And yet, we get all freaked out about topless and nude sunbathing and consider it "immoral" or sexually motivated; when in fact, it is not.

 

In part of my post, I addressed the issue of teenage boys and men only because of the specifics which I mentioned as part of the subject under discussion:

 

And if you think the average 16 yr old boy, raised in a culture where nudity in public is not the norm, would not react in a pretty um, interesting way to seeing a nude women is showing what you know about teenage boys.

 

As a parent I am not ready yet to deal with a 14 yr old drooling. And, drool he would.. sorry he has not been exposed to a naturist lifestyle , so would react, who wouldn't

 

212 your request was stupid, because I KNOW that I could turn young boys off sex for life if I walked around naked.

 

I never wrote that women don't enjoy seeing attractive men. I was responding to the concept that males are incapable of reacting in any way other than a sexual one (or being turned off sexually) to the sight of a topless or nude woman. Not a thing wrong with enjoying seeing an attractive man or woman. That certainly is human nature regardless of gender. If you'd like to discuss how young women would respond to a nude male, no problem. I was not saying that women don't react to nude men; I was addressing specific remarks directly. (Perhaps I should have referenced those remarks better though.) It doesn't take being "exposed to a naturist lifestyle" to think toplessness/nudity on a beach is perfectly natural. For example, the French are hardly a "naturist" society, and yet, they do enjoy the beach au naturale.

 

As for this:

 

Not being able to " for the life of me" see the difference between Brad Pitt and an eighty yr old man is absolutely hilarious.. we are not talking about their worth as people we ( I ) was referring solely to their physical appearance.

Lets not pretend and act all " holier then thou" .. I can freely admit that an attractive 20 yr old female is going to get a lot more looks( admiring) then an elderly lady , geesh, but, hey if you really don't see any physical difference, then I guess you are an amazing person.

 

I did not say that I see "no difference" between the two. I said I don't see why one would be so "scary" to see that it would scar your daughter for life, whereas the other would not. I also never said I am "better than thou"; of course I am not. I enjoy seeing an attractive man (but I certainly don't "drool"). However, I don't get all disgusted or "scared" of a nude 80 y/o one. You specifically said that you don't want your daughter to see the 80 y/o man--but you did not state whether it would be fine for her to see Brad Pitt. My impression was that you thought she'd be freaked out by the old man and not by the young one. If that impression was incorrect, then I appreciate you clearing up for me that you don't want her to see either at this point. (And I'm sure you will note that I've also said that is absolutely your right and perogative as a parent.)

 

I didn't say that I "don't see any physical difference." In essence, I wrote that all kinds of people enjoy the beach topless or nude. If someone is upset that not all of them are the Brad Pitts and female equivalents, then they simply should avoid those beaches. I find it rude to gawk, point, or laugh openly at those who are less than perfect. Yes, we did see this on Orient, and it was cruisers (obvious by their logo items and the fact that many of them were fully clothed, including shoes, on the water's edge, while they pointed and laughed) for the most part--and I am not saying that you would do that.

 

I think you may have misinterpreted my belief that all people who enjoy being topless/nude on a topless/nude beach deserve respect. This does not equate to my not "seeing" any physical differences between people. I never said that I don't.

 

Finally, just because we don't perceive things the same way, doesn't mean I think I'm a "better" person. I do think I may be a more accepting one. And again, most of my remarks were general in nature or responses to other posts--not just yours. Had I wanted to address my post only to you, I would have said so. Certainly we can agree to disagree, but I hope this clears up the difference in my mind between "seeing" (and appreciating and understanding) physical differences between people versus the ways we respond to them.

 

beachchick

[212cruiser]

Actually, Beachchick, I had wanted to post a brief edit to my response to omit the cave reference. It wasn't what I meant to express, so please accept my apology.

 

As a parent with children of both sexes I have become very concerned in the past 10 years with the way men and boys are portrayed by all media, and the direct results of how that has filtered down into the conscience and lexicon of the everyday person. That's why I limited my remarks solely to the one sentence in your post that seemingly accused all (U.S.) boys and all men of reacting in a stereotypical way. I didn't think it was intentional on your part, and I stated that. It just came out that way (as did my comment). Was I wrong?

 

Deriding "all" males is easy, as was the historical stereotyping of all women. That's why TV and screenplay writers do it; they're basically lazy and desperate for content. Imagine if we (and the media) revert back to stereotypical thinking about all girls and women? Or about any other group. However, subtle misandry is now everywhere in our society, especially on TV. Funny is funny. Humor is humor. But sexual bigotry is still bigotry. If you are the parents of boys, or if someday you want your daughters to have a relationahip with a healthy male or are just a conscientious individual, you'll appreciate the awareness.

[pg.]

Beachchick READ my post # 10 again. Are aware that LOL means "laugh out loud" and would indicate that a person is making a joke or lighthearted comment.

 

NO ONE is AFRAID of a naked man , young or old.

 

NO ONE points or laughs at naked people. Where did I say I did that, you all sure jumped in and made up alot of theories about me.

 

I am FRENCH and have been to far more naked beaches then either of you in my lifetime, but, to be clear my friends who think then know so much, the french do consider most beaches topless, not really fully nude. Changing into your suit if fine, but the average 80 yr does not parade up and down the beach in a neon green g string( oh yes I have seen that at Orient) ..

 

Also French men ARE turned on by beautiful naked women and NOT turned on by ugly old naked women.

 

Complain all you want about " sexual bigotry" or " sterotying" it won't change HUMAN nature. The male of our species DOES react more to visual stimulation then the female.

 

And Beachchick, I doubt you are more "accepting of people " then me, more policatically correct is all I see" more of a smooth talker perhaps, but I volunteer at a homeless shelter and spend real time helping and talking to those you probaly hand a dollar to and walk on the other side of the sidewalk to avoid. People like you who jump on people preaching away should really think , actions speak louder then words, no matter how smooth your words are.

 

And 212 sterotyping does not mean ALL it means most. MOST men DO react to an attractive nude in one way, and don't react the same way to an unattractive nude. Just like MOST men do not react to the sight of a 4 yr old naked, but if the naked person was 20, well, you can see the difference. Does not mean ALL. .

 

People like you who think that something is "unfair" or " sterotyping" cry alot , but they won't change human nature.

I do not believe people learn as much from tv as some would think, I think they learn from home, and if you are overy defensive then your kids will pick up on that also.

It seems almost like the " women libbers" crying foul all the time back in the 60s and early 70s,, they of course had great points, but then extremists got in and people went wierd, " how dare you hold that door open for me, you are sexual bigot, I can open it myself etc" !

 

You both jumped on soap boxes in reaction to a very short post that made a joke about prune parts, get over yourselves, honestly, go and help wipe wome 80 yr bottoms before you preach your message of acceptance and love, then I will think your theories are worth listening to!