Pray You Don"t Need Medical Attention On Crown Princess!!!

[MaryPoppinz]

Without trying to open a can or worms here, and after reading the original post. I see that the fall was on deck 15 and the medical center seems to be 10 decks below. What would you consider an appropriate time of response on the last day of the cruise when stairwells and elevators are loaded with passengers? Just curious?

 

As a nurse, I would say about 3 minutes after the incident is reported. I can get from 5 to 14 in under a minute if there are no obstructions and if I'm only motivated to get a cookie -- I hope the crew is in better shape and more highly motivated than I am. It's pretty predictible which stairways and elevators are going to be mobbed, so those can easily be avoided. I would imagine/hope they drill for these conditions.

 

Most cities would want their EMS response time to be in the 7-8 minute range -- you shouldn't have a response time on a cruise ship that takes three times that.

[sultan_sfo]

There are separate crew members stairs on the ship too! /Sulan

[iramack]

Well I have read this enitre thread and finally the other shoe drops with post #48 by the OP!! I had a feeling that there was another extenuating circumstance to be revealed!!!

 

Seems that dad is a bit of a hefer. That's why no one would/could get him moved from his "place of rest" so to speak. I feel badly that this happened to him; but his age, weight, and medical condition were NOT the fault of Princess Cruises. He fell, he bled, and his family expected that Princess should/could rush to protect him from further harm to himself because well hey they are a cruise ship with medical staff and everything.

 

So sorry, as you found out, there are consequences to being fat and this was one of the manefestations of that fact. He is too heavy for mere mortals to carry. I have been in patient care for 30 years and I won't even TRY to move a hefer like that. Certainly not with unknown acute injuries. What, and blow my back out because this guy could not stay out of the buffet line??? NO WAY!!

 

People need to have some self awareness and understand that IF something happens, there MAY be a less than optimal result due to their OWN condition.

 

I am sure the ship staff did not delay that way on purpose, as prevoius posters have correctly speculated, there is NO WAY to know what was going on at that exact time anywhere else on the ship. Period. Disembarkation can be a VERY hectic time for ALL ships departments.

 

Let the flaming begin.

 

S

[TexasMom2]

Good grief, Iramac, what planet are you from. I am ashamed you are from Texas. So if someone gets conked on the head and the wound is bleeding profusely or has a possible spinal injury, no matter their size, they are supposed to get themselves to Medical? It is not that they couldn't move him, it's that no one showed up for 30 minutes while he bled and panic set in. Are you saying, as a nurse, that you should only treat thin people? Surely you are joking but this is not the thread to test your comic chops. Somehow I doubt you are in the medical field.

[rdsqrl]

You'd think someone from Texas would know how to spell "heifer" . . .

[iramack]

First I am not from Texas I just happen to be stuck in this "lovely" state for now.

 

Secondly you missed my point.

 

Thirdly it IS that they couldn't move him!! Go back and read again.

 

I was just trying to say that his weight and medical condition were not Princess' fault and that they probably contributed to the unpleasant situation.

 

That's all.

 

BTW how much do you weigh??? Just asking.............:)

[Host CJSKIDS]

Well I have read this enitre thread and finally the other shoe drops with post #48 by the OP!! I had a feeling that there was another extenuating circumstance to be revealed!!!

 

Seems that dad is a bit of a hefer. That's why no one would/could get him moved from his "place of rest" so to speak. I feel badly that this happened to him; but his age, weight, and medical condition were NOT the fault of Princess Cruises. He fell, he bled, and his family expected that Princess should/could rush to protect him from further harm to himself because well hey they are a cruise ship with medical staff and everything.

 

So sorry, as you found out, there are consequences to being fat and this was one of the manefestations of that fact. He is too heavy for mere mortals to carry. I have been in patient care for 30 years and I won't even TRY to move a hefer like that. Certainly not with unknown acute injuries. What, and blow my back out because this guy could not stay out of the buffet line??? NO WAY!!

 

People need to have some self awareness and understand that IF something happens, there MAY be a less than optimal result due to their OWN condition.

 

I am sure the ship staff did not delay that way on purpose, as prevoius posters have correctly speculated, there is NO WAY to know what was going on at that exact time anywhere else on the ship. Period. Disembarkation can be a VERY hectic time for ALL ships departments.

 

Let the flaming begin.

 

S

 

 

All I can say is that I hope to I'm never anywhere near where you offer patient care because of your complete lack of compassion. Feeling the way you do is your right, showing some class and compassion in how you word things is something you would think you would have learned in your patient care training.

Calling anyone's dad a heifer is uncalled for and making such derogatory comments about anyone is a violation of cruise critic.

[sultan_sfo]

The use of the word "hefer" shows your training (or did you mean heifer)?

 

What exactly do you do in "patient care"? That is one ambiguous statement of one's job.

 

Yes -- you are one of the world's "perfect" human being. Most of us are mere mortals and have some "OWN" conditions (whatever they may be).

 

I like the way some posters use the word "period". Period!

 

/Sultan

 

...

Seems that dad is a bit of a hefer.

...

 

I have been in patient care for 30 years

 

...

 

People need to have some self awareness and understand that IF something happens, there MAY be a less than optimal result due to their OWN condition.

 

I am sure the ship staff did not delay that way on purpose,

 

S

[TexasMom2]

First I am not from Texas I just happen to be stuck in this "lovely" state for now.

 

Secondly you missed my point.

 

Thirdly it IS that they couldn't move him!! Go back and read again.

 

I was just trying to say that his weight and medical condition were not Princess' fault and that they probably contributed to the unpleasant situation.

 

That's all.

 

BTW how much do you weigh??? Just asking.............:)

 

I am average weight and good health but what is your point? Please tell me you work in an allergy clinic or something and not in trauma.

 

I have several generations of relatives in the medical field and I can't imagine a single one of them saying something like that. Surely you realize what you are saying - that SOME people deserve their injuries. What about people in wheelchairs? No wait, I don't think I want to hear your opinion on that. I'm still hoping you aren't for real.

[bunting]

Another post said that the medical department is on deck 4 and the injured pax was on deck 15 and the elevators were busy. Aw -- come on ye Princess cheerleaders. Cardinal Rule: Try Using the the stairs in emergency. I think that perhaps there are not enough drills how to respond to medical emergencies (like Muster drills). /Sultan

 

Besides the stairs many elevators (on ships) have emergency key card over-ride normally issued to medical and security personnel. Not sure if this is the case on Princess but on ships that have the Ving Card locking system for cabins it is normally extended to the elevator system. Also, there are crew elevators.

 

Oraf7, so sorry to hear about your dad´s story....I wonder did you remember hearing any codeword in response to your emergency call. A lot of the cruise lines use a Codeword for Medical emergency and at least one that I know of, the standard response to a medical code word is doctor, nurse, stretcher team (with stretcher in case needed), wheelchair, crash bag, AED etc. The codeword is intended to get prompt and timely response and also provide enough duty people to assist at the scene, medically and crowd management, and also warn off duty medical personnel that they might be needed...the line I know best is not Princess so I cannot commit on the actual response but think that the seemingly slow reaction suggests to me lack of codeword use....

[Julia’s Journey’s]

Well I have read this enitre thread and finally the other shoe drops with post #48 by the OP!! I had a feeling that there was another extenuating circumstance to be revealed!!!

 

Seems that dad is a bit of a hefer. That's why no one would/could get him moved from his "place of rest" so to speak. I feel badly that this happened to him; but his age, weight, and medical condition were NOT the fault of Princess Cruises. He fell, he bled, and his family expected that Princess should/could rush to protect him from further harm to himself because well hey they are a cruise ship with medical staff and everything.

 

So sorry, as you found out, there are consequences to being fat and this was one of the manefestations of that fact. He is too heavy for mere mortals to carry. I have been in patient care for 30 years and I won't even TRY to move a hefer like that. Certainly not with unknown acute injuries. What, and blow my back out because this guy could not stay out of the buffet line??? NO WAY!!

 

People need to have some self awareness and understand that IF something happens, there MAY be a less than optimal result due to their OWN condition.

 

I am sure the ship staff did not delay that way on purpose, as prevoius posters have correctly speculated, there is NO WAY to know what was going on at that exact time anywhere else on the ship. Period. Disembarkation can be a VERY hectic time for ALL ships departments.

 

Let the flaming begin.

 

S

 

You have to be oh so kidding:confused: :confused:

[iramack]

You have to be oh so kidding:confused: :confused:

 

OK you got me...............of course I am kidding. Just trying to lighten up this thread............

 

If you read my post again you will see it reeks of sarcasm and some strange combination of 3rd person /devils advoacte thingy.....with a level of sophistication that is.........well........apparently way above the head of the "average" cruiser.

Did not mean to offend, but boy is it ever easy!!

 

S

[sultan_sfo]

Good job -- I fell for it. Hope the OP is genuine! /Sultan

 

OK you got me...............of course I am kidding. Just trying to lighten up this thread............

 

S

[Host CJSKIDS]

OK you got me...............of course I am kidding. Just trying to lighten up this thread............

 

If you read my post again you will see it reeks of sarcasm and some strange combination of 3rd person /devils advoacte thingy.....with a level of sophistication that is.........well........apparently way above the head of the "average" cruiser.

Did not mean to offend, but boy is it ever easy!!

 

S

 

 

So now you're insulting the "average" cruiser on here by telling us that your particular post had a level of sophistication that's way above most of us???

 

Not quite sure how writing an offensive post towards the OP's dad is considered improving the mood on the thread but I guess this average poster doesn't get your devil's advocate thingy that you talk about or your level of sophistication!

[Julia’s Journey’s]

OK you got me...............of course I am kidding. Just trying to lighten up this thread............

 

If you read my post again you will see it reeks of sarcasm and some strange combination of 3rd person /devils advoacte thingy.....with a level of sophistication that is.........well........apparently way above the head of the "average" cruiser.

Did not mean to offend, but boy is it ever easy!!

 

S

 

Hope you are not talking about me:rolleyes: What makes you more than the 'average cruiser???

[jff50]

Very "nice" of you to speculate all the possible reasons for the poor response on behalf of Princess! Too bad you stopped numbering them after just two. Otherwise, you would make a career politician. /Sultan

The poster was not numbering the possible reasons. He started his post with "Typically there are 2 periods...". I would have thought it a little strange if he had gone on numbering after 2.

[bunting]

OK you got me...............of course I am kidding. Just trying to lighten up this thread............

 

If you read my post again you will see it reeks of sarcasm and some strange combination of 3rd person /devils advoacte thingy.....with a level of sophistication that is.........well........apparently way above the head of the "average" cruiser.

Did not mean to offend, but boy is it ever easy!!

S

 

I suppose, sarcasm and devil advocacy thingys are difficult for most of us average cruisers to comprehend because sometimes it gets in the way of sympathy and kindness. You also said Quote as prevoius posters have correctly speculated, there is NO WAY to know what was going on at that exact time anywhere else on the ship. Period. Disembarkation can be a VERY hectic time for ALL ships departments. Unquote From experience, medical emergencies take priority over normal business within a ship´s organization whether it be debarkation day or not. And if some other emergency was occuring at the same time then feedback should have been given to Oraf7, in the form of a security guard with a radio on site....this is why I asked about a codeword in my earlier post to Oraf7...

[MaryPoppinz]

Good training doesn't involve just ideal scenarios. Good training emphasizes responses in/to irregular situations.

 

I'm not very big, I'm not very threatening, I don't have a commanding voice....but if the stairwell was crowded and that was what I had to deal with in a medical emergency, I *COULD* clear the crowd. It is almost always necessary in a public emergency, anyway, because if there wasn't a crowd to begin with, you can bet your life one WILL gather. Anyone who regularly intervenes in public emergencies knows how to handle this situation, and I cannot imagine the physicians and nurses onboard cruise ships are not accustomed to it. It's a career-limiting move for them not to be able to deal with crowds in an emergency in a public place.

 

There's nothing in my mind short of the ship being on fire that justifies the response time to this incident. It is just plain bad care.

[bunting]

Good training doesn't involve just ideal scenarios. Good training emphasizes responses in/to irregular situations.

 

I'm not very big, I'm not very threatening, I don't have a commanding voice....but if the stairwell was crowded and that was what I had to deal with in a medical emergency, I *COULD* clear the crowd. It is almost always necessary in a public emergency, anyway, because if there wasn't a crowd to begin with, you can bet your life one WILL gather. Anyone who regularly intervenes in public emergencies knows how to handle this situation, and I cannot imagine the physicians and nurses onboard cruise ships are not accustomed to it. It's a career-limiting move for them not to be able to deal with crowds in an emergency in a public place.

 

There's nothing in my mind short of the ship being on fire that justifies the response time to this incident. It is just plain bad care.

 

Well said, for the record all officers and crew having a responsibility for a passenger in an emergency have to undergo crowd managment, crisis management and human behavior training under the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers (STCW) and Code. Most organizations supplement the medical response team with security personnel instructed to assist any evacuation, crowd management, communicate with the Bridge etc and leave the medical team free to do medical responses...and if a code word wasnt called at the intitial time of calling 911 and the nurse arrived on scene and then found she needed help, she had a radio she should have called and updated the Bridge and ordered the necessary assistance....... To me, rule of thumb on a ship and its a medical emergency and you call 911 and dont hear a codeword ring 911 again and ask for an update of the response...of course in such a situation and when your primary concern is your family or friend its so easy to forget such things...

[jlp20]

As a nurse, I would say about 3 minutes after the incident is reported. I can get from 5 to 14 in under a minute if there are no obstructions and if I'm only motivated to get a cookie....Most cities would want their EMS response time to be in the 7-8 minute range -- you shouldn't have a response time on a cruise ship that takes three times that.

 

 

I still don’t know what the staffing of this ship’s medical center is. For this argument, let’s say one doctor and two nurses (remember, not all crew working in the med center have medical training)

 

For this argument, say the doctor is in an exam room with a pax who cut his hand in one of the bars, one nurse is with a crew member who has just sustained a 2nd degree burn on his arm and the other nurse is dealing with a pax who just showed up complaining of chest pain.

 

Then a call comes in of a fall in a stairway with bleeding, who goes. You should know it’s called triage. You have patents in front of you and your hands are full. You must treat what you know you have.

 

I will admit I have no idea what the medical staff was doing, but neither does the O.P. I can guarantee that they were not sitting around drinking coffee.

 

A cruise ship is not a city and does not have the same responsibilities of providing “public safety” services. If they did, the cost of ticket would be astronomical. Imagine paying a 10-member fire department that just waits around for a fire. How many wheelchairs should a ship have to carry and store? Back boards?

 

Two other points, the OP never described what happened, only after putting together several of the posts did I realize her father had not fallen down the stairs of deck 15. He had fallen to the landing BETWEEN floors. And not posting that her father is over 300 pounds was just an over sight?

 

Since it is impossible for us or the OP to know what the medical staff was doing, it is useless for anyone to finger point.

[LoveThisCruisingThing]

I am sorry this happened to your father. My father is on coumadin also. (he had to wait to get his hip replaced for 5 days because that drug had to work its way through his system and there were major events after the surgery but I digress). He wears a medical tag stating he is on blood thinners and if he goes anywhere outside of home, he makes sure to wear it. I would think if he was to go on a cruise, he would inform the medical staff first thing, just in case. Did your father do that? Did you inform the medical staff that your father was on the drug (besides telling them he is bleeding "a lot"....which is a very subjective word?) Also, my father knows his limitations and uses an elevator whenever he sees the situation (knowing that there were numerous stairs to descend, I know he would have used the elevator no matter how long the wait). It sounds like that your father should have used the elevator considering the circumstances (his weight, being on a top floor to go down the stairwell that was more than likely crowded....an elevator would have been best.........even if you have to wait, the "rush" to get back to stateroom to collect things, etc).

 

You also said you are not blaming Princess but the medical staff. However, your title to this line clearly states Crown Princess. Not "medical emergency" or something generic. Yes, mention the ship but not in the titile.

 

Also (and I am sure to be flamed about this), you have stated several times how distraught and upset you are (as we all would be) and continue to be (as we all would be) yet you had the wherewithall to post on another thread (within a few minutes of this posting), about how you didn't gain any weight on your cruise. If it was me and I was so distraught, I doubt I would be able to focus on my lack of weight gain.

[LoveThisCruisingThing]

>>>>Originally Posted by MaryPoppinz

As a nurse, I would say about 3 minutes after the incident is reported. I can get from 5 to 14 in under a minute if there are no obstructions and if I'm only motivated to get a cookie....<<<<<

LOL Amazing how a cookie will motivate even MaryPoppinz....however I am disappointed to learn that you couldn't just open up that umbrella and fly up to the 14th deck for that cookie. LOL

[oraf7]

We immediatly told them he was on cuomodin and I am distraught over the situation but not in a coma where I am not reading the boards and trying to give advice to others such as how not to gain weight as this is a big concern for many who struggle. I can't understand the why you are being so judgemental or how people can think that a *FAT* person shouldn't receive the same care as a thin person. Now this to me is discrimination on top of everything else. How Sad! And no I am not defending myself before that comes up as I weigh 115lbs. I simply posted this thread not to have my Dad ridiculed about what he weighs but to bring attention to what can happen to you or your family and maybe be better prepared. Princess isn't fully to blame but they do hire Fleet Medical Care which failed in this situation. I really don't want this thread to turn into a Flame attack please but some peoples lack of compassion for another Human being floors me and thank God the passengers that came to my Dads rescue didn't feel that way as they were true professionals with sincere dedications. Also those that met my Dad will tell you he is far from some BIG FAT MAN and looks better than men in their 30's so please take the image out of your heads. You can be very tall and weigh 300lbs so what should a medical staff do leave you for dead!

It's ironic because my Dad used the elevators the whole trip but the whole group started to go down the stairs and heck maybe the *FAT* guy wanted some exercise. Also we were on the Baja Deck so we only had to go down 3 flights.

**May I also note letters of condition were sent to the ship supposedly and princess 1800 number has this on file but the ships Medical crew claims they had no record so we did take all precautions so we thougnt way in advance. The Princess rep was shocked to hear that they told us they had no letters in hand as Princess has record of receiving them.

Now maybe I will go back to the *Lose before you cruise board*

[CraigRDR1]

I still don’t know what the staffing of this ship’s medical center is. For this argument, let’s say one doctor and two nurses (remember, not all crew working in the med center have medical training)

 

For this argument, say the doctor is in an exam room with a pax who cut his hand in one of the bars, one nurse is with a crew member who has just sustained a 2nd degree burn on his arm and the other nurse is dealing with a pax who just showed up complaining of chest pain.

 

Then a call comes in of a fall in a stairway with bleeding, who goes. You should know it’s called triage. You have patents in front of you and your hands are full. You must treat what you know you have.

 

I will admit I have no idea what the medical staff was doing, but neither does the O.P. I can guarantee that they were not sitting around drinking coffee.

 

A cruise ship is not a city and does not have the same responsibilities of providing “public safety” services. If they did, the cost of ticket would be astronomical. Imagine paying a 10-member fire department that just waits around for a fire. How many wheelchairs should a ship have to carry and store? Back boards?

 

Two other points, the OP never described what happened, only after putting together several of the posts did I realize her father had not fallen down the stairs of deck 15. He had fallen to the landing BETWEEN floors. And not posting that her father is over 300 pounds was just an over sight?

 

Since it is impossible for us or the OP to know what the medical staff was doing, it is useless for anyone to finger point.

 

All valid points... what if the doctors had a patient who was having a heart attack...We just don't know... To further add to this...what would have happened if there had been a small child in front of the elderly 300 lb gentleman when he fell... If a patient is on Coumadin, 300lbs and probably has some sort of cardio-vascular issue...is it safe to be walking the stairs?? Probably not. The FDNY would have be the best bet here...and was a real option. Laying all this on Princess to me just isnt fair.

 

One cannot expect hospital type care from a cruise line (its not what you are there for or pay for). When on vacation, you are away from home and need to plan for it....Especially if you know that you have medical issues. Like I stated in my first post, I felt very disturbed reading the intial account. But, after putting together more facts I really am beginning to have doubts. OP states it took 30 minutes for help to arrive...From the time of the fall?..From the time the emergency call was place?? Who was timing this 30 minutes...according to the OP she was upset, confused and distraught and was helping give her father first aid...Who would have time to check their watch?

 

There is an old saying...there are three sides to the truth... Yours, Mine and What really happened...

[bunting]

A cruise ship is not a city and does not have the same responsibilities of providing “public safety” services. If they did, the cost of ticket would be astronomical. Imagine paying a 10-member fire department that just waits around for a fire. How many wheelchairs should a ship have to carry and store? Back boards?

 

Ship´s have their own emergency organizations including fire fighters (though they dont wait around they have other duties in the Deck and Engine departments), the STCW requirements also have needs for CPR and First Aid training, focus groups Kids activities, dining room, bars, pool attendants, etc but the one company I knew trained all crew in the process, likely most if not all do the same. They (cruise lines) also place various first aid kits around the ship, and a secondary medical facility for secondary use in an emergency, they have wheelchairs - the number will surprise you, for RCCL on a VY class, this was about 25 to cover for accidents and emergency use during an emergency. (they also rented them out as well during normal days but always kept an emergency use level)... AEDs - normally at least two one in the medical on the crash bag and the other at the Pursers Desk (and again all potential users had training). They also have backboards and specialised stretchers to help in aero evacuations....so they do have a fairly established public safety services....and you are right the OP does not know what was going on around the ship that might have prevented a quicker response but then that´s where the Crowd Management, Crisis and Human Behaviour training comes into play...if the 911 operator was told the medical team were too busy, feedback should have been given to the caller....and if need be, a security guard with a radio communications (medical, Bridge and security all on the same channel) sent to the area, would also help the triage process because if I understand to help the triage process you need to have information (not just the accident type and location) but the condition of the victim and any other relevant medical information e.g. medication etc...so I wonder if Oraf7 saw the security personnel or any other non medical responder before the nurse arrived??

 

 

On the numbers side, and a confirmation of equipment onboard

 

http://www.shipsnurse.com/job.asp

 

Teams vary in size from one doctor and two nursing officers, to two doctors and five nursing officers depending on the size of the vessel and its itinerary.

 

The ships' medical centres consist of several inpatient beds; including at least one critical care room; 1 or 2 consulting rooms, X-Ray room, emergency room, treatment room, laboratory and dispensary. They are equipped with a high standard of medical equipment including defibrillators, external pacemakers, ECG machines, mechanical ventilators, cardiac monitoring systems and infusion pumps. The dispensaries are stocked with a comprehensive range of medications including thrombolytics. Ships are also equipped with a variety of wheelchairs, stretchers, spinal boards and immobilization devices to assist in the management and transfer of sick and injured patients.