???Crack down on Cruise Discount

[arcone]

Hi

 

How will the turn of events with the approach of the cruise lines, to

make it more of a challagne to purchase cruises at an affordable price effect

the on line cruise web site? I love cruising and look forward to my annual vacation to cruise. The only way I can afford this is to find those cruises that are the least expensive. It is the fact that I am cruising that important not where my room is located. What course will the bargain hunters, have to take with ?

[Beth]

I totally agree with the above post. We go on 2-3 cruises a year and I have to find the bargains to afford it. We spend alot of money on booze and in the casino so Carnival gets alot from us.

[Randy & Carmen]

Interesting questions but everyone needs to remember the new guidelines on this Laura posted above:

 

Posts recommending travel agents, travel agencies, cruise-only agencies, travel/cruise brokers, or any other source where consumer can purchase travel will be removed from the boards. This also includes any comments included in signatures requesting members to e-mail you for information about your travel agencies.

[derf5585]

Wouldn't it be nice if the Brochure price is the price that everyone paid for a cruise. Plus of course the TA commision. (who should remain nameless)

[cruisinqt]

I was worried about cruise prices being really high after the new rules took effect. I wondered if we would ever be able to get anymore bargains again.:( But recently I've started getting discount coupons for RCI (who won't allow TA's to discount anymore ) from some of the discount cruise websites I have used in the past. They stated that even though they had to advertise their cruises at the same rate as the cruiseline, it didn't mean that they couldn't use coupons to discount the cruises. I was offered several coupons for future cruises worth $50 to $200 off of the published cruise rates.:D I haven't booked one of their "coupon" cruises (because I am waiting for the right CC group cruise to pop up) but it sounds like you mention the coupon and get the discount when you book the cruise. So hopefully, the discount cruise websites have already found a way around the new rules and can still give us a bargain. ;) I'm not sure exactly how the coupon works or how much of a bargain it really is. But I'm sure we will start hearing about it from other cruisers who have tried the coupons. :)

[NinaCO]

It's not just Carnival, it's RCI (Royal Caribbean & Celebrity) too. Between the two lines & their subsidiaries, it's going to impact most of the mass market cruise industry. Have to wonder what how the internet agencies will survive.

 

Haven't heard of a similar NCL announcement yet. But, they recently announced mandatory daily fees on all their ships. These aren't tips, but supposedly you no longer need to tip once the fees are in place. Even if you have poor service, there's no way to adjust the fees (because they're not tips ;) ). Hopefully Norwegian will use this money to provide their staff with a wage they can actually live on. But, my money's on the cruise line keeping a % of these new fees.:( I'm sure this has been discussed in detail on the NCL board, but I don't visit there.

[BigDoug]

That is what Royal Carib/Celebrity are saying. No discounts or rebates at all. Carnival is saying no advertising of discounted or rebated rates.:mad:

[NinaCO]

Here's RCI's FAQ for TA's if anyone's interested in the details. Appears that TA's can offer free travel insurance & third party (not RCI) excursions as incentives. But, that's about it.

 

The RCI changes are already in effect. From what I've read the Carnival changes aren't as strict and don't go into effect until next year.

[Brneyznfl]

I find it rather interesting that the TA can provide shore excursions and travel insurance sold by a third party as a "value added item" to the customer but not shore excursions or travel insurance sold by RCL. This is because RCL is saying that their insurance and shore excursions represent a specific dollar value. If the TA provides these via a third party, then we do not know the specific dollar amount of these items provided and that is ok according to their policy.

 

I don't understand the rationale here at least to a point. I understand they don't want the TA to offer anything that can be converted to cash.

 

However, what am I missing here? First, with this new rebate policy the RCL is taking away their own potential revenue by saying it's ok for the TA to purchase travel insurance and shore excursions for the client via a third party but it's not ok to provide it to us as a value added item if purchased directly from RCL! huh????

 

Secondly, the RCL states that that it's ok for the TA to provide these value added items purchased by from a third party because we will not know the exact dollar amount of the insurance coverage or shore excursion provided. This doesn't make sense either. We can do our own research and pretty much figure out the dollar value of the travel insurance and/or shore excursions the TA has purchased through a third party for us! This isn't rocket science, search the internet! Even if the TA has negotiated lower pricing for high volumne purchasing you still have a pretty good idea.

 

Ok let's get back to the fact that RCL doesn't want the TA to offer anything that can be converted to cash. I'm assuming they mean they don't want us to convert it to cash in our pockets. Yes? No? If you were going to try to circumvent the system and you cancelled that travel insurance or that shore excursion that the TA purchase for you from RCL, that money isn't going back to you as cash. Wouldn't the monies be refunded back to the purchaser..the TA? I would think so! Also, travel insurance and shore excursions purchased via a third party have a value attached to it! If I'm making myself look like an idiot and missing something here, please help my befuddled mind!

 

This whole thing really baffles me. I would be interested to know how long this has been in the works by the Royal Caribbean before they released it for implementation. I think Carnival has done a smart thing. They have at least 3 months to see how RCL is handling this and watch the fallout. Then Carnival can either lessen the restrictions, increase it or throw it out the window completely without looking like they are total idiots. :eek:

 

I'm left scratching my head here..:rolleyes:

[dan40]

My prediction is that its all much ado about nothing and it will all blow over. Probably salve for small agencies complaining about big agencies. The big uns will work around the rules [likely with a wink from the cruiselines] and the little agencies will still complain and get weaker. Law of the Jungle.

 

Dan

[serene56]

argh!!!!

[babs275]

I am of the belief that it will be quite the contrary - I see this as a "first step" in making the TA's go bye-bye in the same way the airlines did years ago. At least the "order taker" TA's - there will always be room for a few full service "soup to nuts" TA's for those that need a little more hand holding or not willing to do the legwork.

[arcone]

How will this effect the online web sites. Will we still be able to search for deals on the web via something catching our eye. Or will WWW. A.com list the cruise for $100 Does that mean www b com and WWW c com all list the same cruise for $ 100.

[BigDoug]

All the online websites will post the same prices as Carnival, RCI and Celebrity. You will have to call each online TA individually to get a price quote. They will be forbidden to post/advertise their actual rates, at least for now.:confused:

[halos]

I was worried about cruise prices being really high after the new rules took effect. I wondered if we would ever be able to get anymore bargains again.:( But recently I've started getting discount coupons for RCI (who won't allow TA's to discount anymore ) from some of the discount cruise websites I have used in the past. They stated that even though they had to advertise their cruises at the same rate as the cruiseline, it didn't mean that they couldn't use coupons to discount the cruises.

 

 

Where there's a will, there's a way.

I think some TA's are offering all kinds of perks because of the new regulations. I saw one giving away free weekend land vacations to people who booked cruises.....I think it's safe to say that things will still remain competitive and we, the consumers will not suffer as much as we originally thought....thank goodness!! :D

 

 

Randy...am I within guidelines there????

[NinaCO]

All the online websites will post the same prices as Carnival, RCI and Celebrity. You will have to call each online TA individually to get a price quote. They will be forbidden to post/advertise their actual rates, at least for now.:confused:

RCI is cold-calling travel agencies already -- asking what the lowest price is. They're trying to catch the TA's rebating part of their commission. I bet they pick a few to make examples of. Carnival's rules aren't going to be as strict as Royal Caribbean's.

[VentureMan_2000]

I just soooooo disagree that this is the first step to getting rid of the TA.

 

The cruise lines just want to insure a great cruise experience. There is nothing worse than sitting at a table only to find out that the person next to you spent a whole lot less for a whole lot more cabin. This creates a bad experience for the cruiser that payed more. It also causes head-aches for the purser. And it may eliminate the chance for a repeat customer.

 

I have a TA friend who has run into this often. She gets a 'normal' commision and can't afford to discount. She doesn't 'up' the price either.

 

Companies have the right to market their product any way they see fit. And anyone that markets the company's product inconsistent with the policies of the company should be repremanded. Branding is a HUGE part of marketing. Price points are also a HUGE part of marketing too.

 

Retail stores can sell clothing for less because they already purchased and own the goods they are selling. A TA does not own the goods they are selling. They are only agents selling on behalf of the Cruiselines.

 

I think we have to take off our greedy hats and put on our business hats when looking at this.

[Facation Fanatic]

Until recently, I have tried to keep up with everything going on with the "new" policies of RCL and Carnival. It seems all confusing, not only to me, but from what I have read, many fellow cruisers and most of all, many travel agencies. It got to the point that it seemed like everyone had a different opinion or interpretation of the rules, while others had no clue. It is now virtually impossible to keep up with how everyone thinks this is going to turn out and besides, who knows who is right? I can see litigation in the forecast somewhere down the line between cruise lines and travel agencies because of the confusion and ambiguity of the policies.

 

With all due respect to my fellow cruisers and their opinions on this issue, I have decided to take this approach. I will select a cruise and research it just like I always have. When I find the deal that best serves my interests, whether that is with "points", "free insurance", "less money", "excursions", or other incentives, then I'll purchase the cruise and sail away. I'll leave all the technical, marketing, financing, and legal stuff to the cruise lines and travel agencies with whom they have their contracts to deal with that stuff and I'll leave the enjoyment of the cruise to the person who needs to deal with that..........ME!

 

I'm not a travel agent and don't think I need to worry about all this stuff or how it is going to affect me. I can't do anything about it anyway. It will be whatever it will be. I don't need to worry about how it all gets worked out between the cruise line and the travel agent. That's their business. I am cruiser and the enjoyment of my cruise is where I need to stay focused and I am counting down!!!! JMHO.

[BigDoug]

The only reason I can think someone would ask what I paid for the cruise I'm on is that they already think that they paid too much. I feel that it is bad cruise etiquette to ask someone what they paid for THEIR cruise. TA's can still buy, not just reserve, blocks of cabins from the cruise lines. What they charge for the cabins is between the agency and the cruiser. The cruise line should not be dictating to the TA's what they can charge. The market should determine the price. If a TA is charging too much, you can book elsewhere. If the TA is less than the cruiseline or other TA's, then book with them. Under the new rules, why would an experienced cruiser want to deal with a TA? You will get the same price from the cruiseline without the middleman. The cruiselines make more $$$ because of no commissions. Don't you think this is really what the cruiselines want? Let the new cruisers use a TA and get the experienced cruisers to book onboard or direct with the cruiseline. I think that you will see more of the $ off coupons and past guest specials to encourage past cruisers to book directly with the cruiseline. The cruiselines would be in effect rebating the commission they are not paying back to past cruisers. But not all of it of course.

[wenhigh]

Well said, Facation Fanatic. I do not think that RCL or Carnival are trying to lose customers. Let us wait and see how this shakes out and what "other" incentives will be offered both by TA's and cruise lines to attract cruisers.

[donnajo]

cruisinqt - just got the same brochure from the unamed agent.

The $200 coupon is if you book a package at $8000 or more!

Yikes! My Mediterranean cruise didn't cost that much!

No deals there, read the fine print on how much you have to spend.

I know I will not be able to do my twice a year cruising if the prices go up to brochure rates at least not on Carnival or RCCL. May have to go back to Princess sailings which are just OK in my book.

 

Donna

[dvan68]

I just started doing some research for our 2005 vacation and the discount web sites have lower prices than what is posted on the cruise line web sites - so when is this change going to take effect?

[babs275]

If the TA is less than the cruiseline or other TA's, then book with them. Under the new rules, why would an experienced cruiser want to deal with a TA? You will get the same price from the cruiseline without the middleman. The cruiselines make more $$$ because of no commissions. Don't you think this is really what the cruiselines want? Let the new cruisers use a TA and get the experienced cruisers to book onboard or direct with the cruiseline. I think that you will see more of the $ off coupons and past guest specials to encourage past cruisers to book directly with the cruiseline.

This is why I was speculating that perhaps this is just the first move by the cruiselines to go the way the airlines did and squeeze TA's out of being the primary way you book cruises. Perhaps in the future the C&A coupons will only be good when you book directly with RCL. It would make sense from a business standpoint - right now they pay commisions AND discount the fare when a TA is used.

 

As a sidenote - the airlines are beginning to reel things in even more. Just read that Northwest Airlines Corp. plans to begin charging customers and travel agents extra fees for domestic tickets that are not booked through the airline's Web sites (http://www.nbc4.tv/travelgetaways/3680577/detail.html) and that both Northwest and United will charge a fee for frequest flyer tickets not arranged for through the internet.

[bjkeen]

According to my TA; September 1, 2004 the prices go into affect.

[tesuque72000]

Watch how fast this pricing policy goes in the dumper when the "greyhounds" of the cruise industry begin sailing with 60% load factors.

 

Airlines are not a good example to compare to as they can lease out or mothball aircraft and put lower operating cost regionals on low load factor routes. Cruise ships have a much higher "cost of ownership" and need to be maintained even when not in service.