Why the dislike of Freestyle/NCL

[cruizinwithkids]

 

Hey everybody....I've been called an NCL Cheerleader.....what do you think?

 

OMG, I'm grateful that you've toned down your anti-NCL comments lately. By the way, that's not a suggestion to go back to the old ways.

[OHCruisin]

Actually, I kind of like Freestyle when I was on NCL years ago. My objection to it is only when I'm flying solo, so to speak. I cruise solo quite a bit. Freestyle leaves me out in the cold. No one ever wants to let you join their table; eating dinner alone, night after night, gets old, fast. My sister and I, though, enjoyed being able to try the different restaurants, and that was back on the Sun, which didn't have as many as they're putting on the newer ships. I'd like to do NCL again, and if I find a cruise partner, I will.

[ce2000]

lablvr, I'm glad to see you giving NCL a try, it may turn out to be your cruiseline of choice, especially if Freestyle 2.0 is implemented before your cruise. There were some issues with the original Freestyle, and I'm sure NCL received many complaints on their comment cards and on various message boards, about the short comings with Freestyle. Perhaps this is due to the Apollo groups investment, I don't know, but I believe that if NCL makes the improvements that are a part of the new Freestyle, they will turn a profit next year.

[newmexicoNita]

I've said it before and I've said it again... I would much rather have the option of paying for things I want than to have things I don't want included (and added) in my fare.

 

There are three of us going on our upcoming MR cruise on the Star. With two of us paying full fares and our daughter being the third, it still averages out to be only $54 per day for each of us, after taxes and port charges (inside cabin). My daughter and I went out for supper tonight, and it cost us $22, and that was at a decent family restaurant with no better and no worse food than what we had on the Dream last year, so let's say our supper is worth $11 each. That leaves us paying $43 each for the rest of the day. I haven't eaten breakfast or lunch at restaurants for a while, but let's average it out to about $8 each... so another $16. That leaves $27 per day for accommodations, entertainment, snacks... I'm sorry if I don't feel like I need to complain about spending a few more bucks on a specialty restaurant! :) (and I definitely feel no need to complain because things are included in my fare that I don't want)

 

Oops! I forgot to add in the $10 per day ($5 for my daughter) service charge/autotip. For anyone keeping up with the math, that means that after meals, we're paying $(37+37+32)=$106 per night for our accommodations, including entertainment, 'grazing' (buffet, Blue Lagoon, room service, etc.), transportation between ports, towel service... Yeah. Still okay with what I'm paying. :)

you know I agree with you, I can not understand why so many people don't get this. Yes, cruising has changed, I do think people are afraid of changes, but we can't go back to what used to be. For us, being in control of our own money is what it is all about.

 

Nita

[mikedw]

I have yet to experience Freestyle Dining, but how different can it be from the regular restaurants my wife and I eat at several times a week. Those servers have people coming in at all different times and each table on a different course. Never have any trouble with the service. You hear some of the people who only like traditional and have to wonder if they ever eat out. Happy New Year everyone.

[Retired not Expired]

Actually, I kind of like Freestyle when I was on NCL years ago. My objection to it is only when I'm flying solo, so to speak. I cruise solo quite a bit. Freestyle leaves me out in the cold. No one ever wants to let you join their table; eating dinner alone, night after night, gets old, fast. My sister and I, though, enjoyed being able to try the different restaurants, and that was back on the Sun, which didn't have as many as they're putting on the newer ships. I'd like to do NCL again, and if I find a cruise partner, I will.

I hope you do find that cruise partner as I agree with you on this one. Freestyle dining can be rough on a single cruiser

[newmexicoNita]

I have done 40 some cruises and have never had a bad waiter on traditional. I have done 2 NCL cruises and service was bad. I have tried the Princess open dining and the service was ok, nothing like NCL but not great either.

 

So why was the service so bad on NCL? Did I just decide to pick on NCL, no.

 

The things I like about traditional are small, but none the less, make the experience memorable: I dont like to wait and like to have dinner around 6pm, I like ice tea and I always smile when I get to the table and the ice tea with lemon is waiting. I like when the waiter brought me a 2nd of something with having to ask because he or she thought I really enjoyed it. I like it when before the ice tea glass is empty there is another one provided. I have made lots of friends on traditional cruises who were at our table where the friendship continuted after the cruise..

 

I have not had the same experiences with freestyle.

 

When cruise discussions come up, when people start comparing various lines, NCL usually does not get many positive comments.

 

NCL has alot of die hard fans. It also has a lot of people who are turned off by the line. It looks like Appolo is starting to make changes only a few months after investing in NCL. I believe they are going to make more changes in a effort to get some people back and retaining what they have.

 

NCL has been losing a lot of money and those losses cant be all blamed on the Hawaii fiasco.

 

I would guess if you picked some random people out of a crowd who are into cruising and asked them about the main cruise lines, of what they like and dont like, more would have bad things to say about NCL than the other lines.

of course everyone experiences things in a different way and we look at things in a different light, but 1-I really think if you took a group who were cruise savvy (spelling) and asked them if they liked or didn't like NCL, you would not get more negatives than positives, We all know polls are taken and results posted because of the way a question is worded. Most of us are seeing this right now with the Iowa causus, or New Hampshire, etc. As for your statement, you have taken 40 plus cruises and only had bad dining service on NCL, well, I would say you have been luckier than HELL> We have normally had the best service in the world, we have cruised on all but one mass marketed line and a few that are gone now, I cetainly wouldn't make a statemnet "I have never had bad service"

 

You have met fun people at your table when choosing traditional dining, haven't we all, but now, lets be honest and talk about the times we have been seated with either 1-real jerks or 2-people we have nothing in common with. They may be very nice, but spending 7-10 days,every night with 1,2 or 3 couples you have trouble communicating with; that's not my idea of a fun dinner experience. We have actually made more friends by chossing flex dining, we meet someone different each night and choose whether we want to hang out with them or do our own thing the rest of the cruise, actually they decide if they want to hang out with us as well. LOL

 

You can continue with traditional dining, for many it is the best way to go and you might as well enjoy it while it lasts (5 to 10 years more I would guess) but I do disagree on your opinion of NCL. That is what these boards are all about....

 

Nita

[CanadianTwosome]

Thanks RnE.

 

And I agree with you too!

 

I just like to say everyone is entitled to an opinion. We can all learn from some.

 

Some have an agenda.

 

But in the end, aren't we all just people that have a vacation passion?

 

I'm just concerned that, like in the book, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, if everyone is wearing emerald glasses, no one will be able to pick out the Wicked Witch.

 

Do you suck on lemons? I'm not sure I've ever met anyone more determined to interfere with someone else's good time.

 

First, the rose coloured glasses thing... as Monte pointed out, it was not the positive people who came up with that, it was the bashers (possibly you, in fact) that accused us of wearing them because we weren't miserable about anything. This particular post just makes me sad for how miserable your life must be:

 

Hence, the rose colored glasses. They see only what they wish to see. This is called fantasy.

 

Those who want reality don't need to wear them.

 

They won't even see this post unless they take their glasses off.

 

Do you really think it's fantasy to just be happy and not let trivial things bother you? Do you really think that because someone has a positive attitude they must 'only see what they wish to see'? Is your 'reality' so awful that you truly believe that anyone who is happy and positive does not 'want' reality?

 

I saw the post - not because I took my glasses off, but because I don't really wear them. I see reality just fine. Have you ever heard the Serenity Prayer? Here it is:

 

God grant me the serenity

to accept the things I cannot change;

courage to change the things I can;

and wisdom to know the difference.

Leave out the 'god' part if that's not your thing, but PLEASE think about the rest of it. See, those of us who are capable of being positive about things even when everything's not perfect (which we do realize, as we have stated repeatedly, even though you can't seem to acknowledge it), are able to do the things in the poem. If something bad happens, we have two choices - accept it, make the best of it and move on, or do something to change it. (note there is no third part where we 'dwell on it until it makes us a sourpuss') Well, when I was on the traditional ship and stuck dining at a table with an insufferable boor, I could not change it, so I accepted it and made the best of it. Does that mean I was wearing rose tinted glasses and living in a fantasy? Hardly. It just means that I refused to let one ass ruin my holiday. I'll say one thing for him that I can't say for you, though - he didn't follow me around trying to interfere with my fun.

 

Now, before you argue that you don't do that, take a little trip over to the Floataway Lounge and see if your name doesn't pop up in the thread. Yes, in the original 'Something I will never understand' thread, you took the opportunity, amongst a group of people who were being positive and happy, to tell us what there was to complain about and how much we annoyed you by being positive. (denying that you had been understood correctly, but refusing to clarify when asked) But you couldn't leave it at that - you had to follow the group over to the next thread and into the Floataway Lounge - WHY??? Certainly you have no desire to be associated with the group, so what possible reason could you have for posting to the thread? Oh, right. To ridicule us. To once again make an attempt to inject some negativity into our fun. In the school yard they call that bullying... and I tend to believe that bullies are a sad miserable lot who can only make feeble attempts at experiencing happiness by trying to make others miserable too. Is that what you were doing? From the tone of some of your posts, I definitely get the feeling that you feel good when you put others down... for being 'up', no less.

 

Well, just like a backed up toilet, it will take a lot more than your poor attitude to ruin our fun. :p You can call us names, you can accuse us of living in a fantasy, and you can swear that your only intention is to 'save us' from the wicked witch. From my perspective, though, you're the one sending out the flying monkeys. :)

 

I really try not to get personal on this or any other board, but sometimes I just get really tired of seeing the same crap. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, can you not just focus on expressing your opinions in a polite way without accusing anyone of anything? Can you not just allow happy positive people to be happy and positive? Just because people don't agree with all the things you think are wrong with the world doesn't mean they live in a fantasy, it just means they perceive things differently than you do. This is one of those times when the 'wisdom' comes into play... ACCEPT that we don't agree with you and move on; you CAN'T change it. :)

[MrPete]

Do you suck on lemons? I'm not sure I've ever met anyone more determined to interfere with someone else's good time.

 

Sorry, but if your good time is a ficticious cyberspace message board with rose colors, go for it.

 

I like to talk about cruising. Real life. Try it sometime.

 

I advocate trying to defend us cruisers, make it better, not just disguising it to make it look better. Who doesn't want improvements. And look, right in the middle of these "sunshine" threads, the announcement of Freestyle 2.0. Someone's doing something.....while others are putting on glasses. :rolleyes:

 

And, no, I've never said anyone here was wearing them. It wasn't me.

 

Try to lighten up a bit. You sound bitter. The glasses don't seem to be working.

[CanadianTwosome]

Sorry, but if your good time is a ficticious cyberspace message board with rose colors, go for it.

 

I like to talk about cruising. Real life. Try it sometime.

 

I advocate trying to defend us cruisers, make it better, not just disguising it to make it look better. Who doesn't want improvements. And look, right in the middle of these "sunshine" threads, the announcement of Freestyle 2.0. Someone's doing something.....while others are putting on glasses. :rolleyes:

 

And, no, I've never said anyone here was wearing them. It wasn't me.

 

Try to lighten up a bit. You sound bitter. The glasses don't seem to be working.

 

Accusing people of wearing rose tinted glasses and living in a fantasy world is NOT talking about cruising. Check my last post for the quote from you - you DID say people were wearing them.

 

I talk about real life all the time, as do others with positive attitudes. You just don't like the fact that we're happy and positive even in the face of reality, which we know isn't always pretty. Funny that you say we 'see only what we want to see' when in my last post, I DID refer to a REAL event... did you miss that? You seem to think that if someone isn't talking about something negative, they aren't talking about 'real life'. That's just SAD. Talk about bitter!!!

 

As for trying to lighten up a bit... physician heal thyself. I can't believe you have the gall to accuse anyone else of sounding bitter - let alone one of the people you consistently accuse of being 'too positive'!!!

[MrPete]

Somehow, I think you think everyone is talking to you.

 

Psst. In this post, I was talking to ZQVOL.

 

In the "Something I will Never understand" thread, I was answering the OP. I mentioned my 2 cruises this year were less than stellar. I said it was time to stand up, as I didn't like what I saw as declining.

 

Neither cruise was even on NCL, yet you felt the need to respond to me.

 

But, if you're happy with things on the downslide, please, put the glasses on, and enjoy.

 

I look forward to the improvements.

[CanadianTwosome]

Somehow, I think you think everyone is talking to you.

 

Psst. In this post, I was talking to ZQVOL.

 

In the "Something I will Never understand" thread, I was answering the OP. I mentioned my 2 cruises this year were less than stellar. I said it was time to stand up, as I didn't like what I saw as declining.

 

Neither cruise was even on NCL, yet you felt the need to respond to me.

 

But, if you're happy with things on the downslide, please, put the glasses on, and enjoy.

 

I look forward to the improvements.

 

Excuse me? I thought you were defending 'all cruisers'... so as one of them, am I not entitled to respond? :)

 

Neither cruise? What cruises? I couldn't care less what cruises you're talking about - my issue with you is that you attack people for being positive. Your opinions are welcome, as I have stated repeatedly.

 

I don't feel like going back and pulling quotes of your posts to support what I'm saying. I've said my peace. Now I'll just accept that even rose tinted glasses couldn't improve your sour attitude and move on. It's what positive people do. :)

 

Now, here I go talking about 'real life' again... and it's not even positive... but here goes: I am reminded of an ex-boyfriend (we call them exes for a reason, don't we?). He was angry with me for trying to find a more positive way to look at a situation he was upset about. (sound familiar?) I told him that I was just trying to help because he was so miserable and since I cared about him, I wanted to help him feel better. I swear I'm not making this next part up... he actually looked at me and asked, 'Did it ever occur to you I WANT to be miserable?' Well... it hadn't. I can't imagine why anyone would... but clearly, some people do. I choose to avoid it. Have a nice day! :)

[MrPete]

my issue with you is that you attack people for being positive. Your opinions are welcome, as I have stated repeatedly.

 

I don't feel like going back and pulling quotes of your posts to support what I'm saying.

 

Here you go. You can re-read for yourself.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=12680734#post12680734

 

You even went so far as to say I shouldn't be posting on that thread. Don't see any attacks on people, as you say.

 

Now, why you can't just read someones opinion, and move on, instead of disecting it, escapes me.

 

But you have a nice day too.

[Retired not Expired]

I spend time on many of the other cruise line boards. Not just NCL. I see MrPete around a lot. I believe some may be seeing something in his posts that is not really there. He is not speaking about NCL alone, nor to any one individual, nor is he speaking to all individuals.

 

His thing right now is the decline in service and product due to cost cutting on all lines. He believes a large part of this is due to too many accepting the status quo and not challenging the cruise lines more on all of these cuts. He is not picking NCL only for what he believes, nor is he saying everyone is looking through those rose colored glasses. I believe I am correct in that he is saying we need to stop accepting all of the changes without question and instead let the cruise lines know we are not pleased with the dilution of the cruise experience. I’m sure he will correct me if I’m wrong.

 

I can agree with what he has been saying but I am not sure I can support the solution. My feeling is, the only way to stop the cuts is to raise the fares. How much can you raise them before you start pricing people out of cruising or, at least, limit the amount of cruises they take? The cruise lines have put themselves between the old rock and a hard place. Due to people hollering for more and bigger ships with more activities, they can’t afford to lose too many cruisers due to fare increases. They have to fill those new ships to make a profit. And how many cuts in service or turning now included into a pay type until enough of the experienced cruisers say, enough is enough, we are through.

[MrPete]

I’m sure he will correct me if I’m wrong.

 

No correction needed. The nutshell is filled.

 

Thanks RnE!

 

And how many cuts in service or turning now included into a pay type until enough of the experienced cruisers say, enough is enough, we are through.

 

And, as in all things corporate America, someone will capitalize on that!

[CanadianTwosome]

Here you go. You can re-read for yourself.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=12680734#post12680734

 

You even went so far as to say I shouldn't be posting on that thread. Don't see any attacks on people, as you say.

 

Now, why you can't just read someones opinion, and moving on, instead of disecting it, escapes me.

 

But you have a nice day too.

 

*sigh* Again with the 'seeing what you want to see'...

 

I am one of the most positive supporters of people being entitled to their opinions on this board. Again, my issue with you has NOTHING to do with your opinions as expressed on this board - it's about your insults and 'attacks' on those who don't agree with you.

 

I have never said you 'should' not do anything, I did ASK that anyone who wanted to be negative please not do it in that thread, however:

 

I would just like to say... to anyone reading this thread... if you don't like our outlook, and you feel an irresistible urge to tell us how 'stupid' or 'wrong' we are, or how our good attitudes are making it difficult for you to complain successfully... please, go start your own thread and have a 'complainer's club'. Maybe you could be the 'Rainy Cruisers'. :p But please, let us just have a nice, positive thread here. Coming in and telling us how 'wrong' we are to be so happy about cruising, rain or shine, doesn't say anything at all about us... but it speaks volumes about you.

 

As for taking issue with you 'attacking' people, I am referring to the many posts you have made since the 'Sunshine Cruisers' came to be, in which you ridicule and insult people for having a positive outlook. Here is an excellent example:

 

Hence, the rose colored glasses. They see only what they wish to see. This is called fantasy.

 

Those who want reality don't need to wear them.

 

They won't even see this post unless they take their glasses off.

 

There was NO reason for this post. It has nothing to do with the thread and has no purpose other than to 'attack' the people who are positive about things you believe they should be negative about. Perhaps 'attack' is a harsh word, but I'm not here to discuss semantics. It was clearly intended as an insult, and to me that is an attack. This post is also a good example of how you are NOT just here to talk about cruising as you so strongly proclaim. There is nothing in this post about cruising at all, it is entirely about people you don't even know.

 

Now, I have to show some inner strength here and stop responding to you. I learned that day with my ex that if someone is determined to be negative, there's nothing I can do about it. Sometimes it just takes me a while to realize that's what I'm dealing with. I wouldn't be surprised if these posts get removed, since they're personal and totally off topic, and I wouldn't blame the hosts if they chose to do so.

[ctdahlquist]

I don't like that I have to wake up early in the morning to get a restaurant reservation at my desired time, and then possibly paying an additional $15 or $20/person for the meal. (Part of the appeal is that food is included in the base cost). Having the option of making reservations for the entire week doesn't help much either - you don't know what the menus are each night in the main dining room, which could ultimately mean you go to a specialty restaurant on a night the dining room has multiple dishes you would like. Conversely, you eat in the main dining room one night when you don't see anything appealing on the menu.

 

I also don't enjoy the waits I've experienced.

 

 

We all have our preferences, and this should be expected. For me, I've never waited for more that 10 minutes or so to be seated; it just never seemed to be a real problem. I always meet great people on excursions, by the pool, etc., and I'm more than happy to trade a short wait for having the option of dining with the people I want to. There is nothing worse than spending every evening with some duds who wouldn't give you the time of day, if they weren't forced to sit with you. Yes, you can meet some some great tablemates with a traditional arrangement, but it is really a crap shoot. Can you imagine paying good money for a meal in a regular on-shore restaurant, and then told you have to share your table with others? Ugh! I'll take freestyle any time.

[CanadianTwosome]

I spend time on many of the other cruise line boards. Not just NCL. I see MrPete around a lot. I believe some may be seeing something in his posts that is not really there. He is not speaking about NCL alone, nor to any one individual, nor is he speaking to all individuals.

 

His thing right now is the decline in service and product due to cost cutting on all lines. He believes a large part of this is due to too many accepting the status quo and not challenging the cruise lines more on all of these cuts. He is not picking NCL only for what he believes, nor is he saying everyone is looking through those rose colored glasses. I believe I am correct in that he is saying we need to stop accepting all of the changes without question and instead let the cruise lines know we are not pleased with the dilution of the cruise experience. I’m sure he will correct me if I’m wrong.

 

I can agree with what he has been saying but I am not sure I can support the solution. My feeling is, the only way to stop the cuts is to raise the fares. How much can you raise them before you start pricing people out of cruising or, at least, limit the amount of cruises they take? The cruise lines have put themselves between the old rock and a hard place. Due to people hollering for more and bigger ships with more activities, they can’t afford to lose too many cruisers due to fare increases. They have to fill those new ships to make a profit. And how many cuts in service or turning now included into a pay type until enough of the experienced cruisers say, enough is enough, we are through.

 

You miss my point. If only MrPete had expressed himself as you just did, I would have found no fault with it. While we don't see eye to eye on exactly WHAT needs to be changed and what is acceptable, that's okay. I just believe it's wrong to insult people just because they don't agree with you. :)

 

I'm not sure the only way to stop cuts is to raise fares. I really like the 'paid extras' idea, as I've said many times. I did a breakdown of what our upcoming cruise is costing us earlier (in this thread - I think) and I just can't complain. It worked out to an average of $54 per day each for the three of us - $64 if you add in the $10 per day service charge (and actually only $59 for my daughter, since she pays $5). That's a low fare, and I fully acknowledge that the way NCL was able to let me pay so little to be on board was to implement a pay system for some of the other perks on the ship. For me, though, that's GREAT. Now that I've paid my ridiculously low amount for accommodations, meals, entertainment and transportation, I can decide if I want to add on a little more for any of the extras... or not. I don't generally use the spa, I don't drink soft drinks most of the time (they don't have the one I like), I am not interested in the menus at most of the specialty restaurants... what other pay services are there that I might or might not want? If they kept the fare low and added a charge for other services currently included, I would be okay with that as well.

 

Perhaps in the future, rather than increasing fares or adding more specific pay services on board, they might have a 'fare structure' where you can choose your inclusions before you sail. I would be happy to forego admission to shows in lieu of my daughter attending Kid's Crew, for instance. I tend not to go to shows... and a LOT of people don't use Kid's Crew... so if we could do a trade off like that, I can see it working. If I then decided that a particular show appealed to me, I could pay to attend. (and would do so without complaint)

 

I see Freestyle as being, more than anything else, about choice, and to me, the freedom to make my own choices far outweighs any inconvenience or compromise. More choices about how to spend my money, rather than raising fares so that they can continue to include things I don't use... or add things I won't use... to me, is the better way to go. I know many people disagree with me on that point, and that's okay. The reality is that I will accept whatever method the cruiselines choose and I will continue to cruise and enjoy it!! :)

[MrPete]

You miss my point. If only MrPete had expressed himself as you just did, I would have found no fault with it.

 

Excuse me? You make it sound like posts must meet your approval. :rolleyes:

 

I rest my case.

 

Now, let's see how that inner strength thing works out.

[Seago2]

My inner strength is going to put the two of you in a room together until you work it out if you don't knock it off!

[cruizinwithkids]

My inner strength is going to put the two of you in a room together until you work it out if you don't knock it off!

 

 

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[MrPete]

My inner strength is going to put the two of you in a room together until you work it out if you don't knock it off!

 

LOL :p

[Retired not Expired]

Don't ya feel the love.

[JWestShuh]

Ok. THIS is what I am talking about. Read this thread to find out what question I am asking. On another thread the OP asked how tendering worked and a group of us answered. I spoke about how I walked on the tender on Mariner of the Seas but that I would have to get tickets to tender on NCL. Then a few posts later someone responds to my post by saying "you'll be so exhausted and depleted from hunger while waiting for 2 hours for an "any-time" dining experience, you'll be too tired to get up that early for the first tender anyway." This came from out of no where. What in the heck? Here is the thread.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=679179

[Retired not Expired]

Ok. THIS is what I am talking about. Read this thread to find out what question I am asking. On another thread the OP asked how tendering worked and a group of us answered. I spoke about how I walked on the tender on Mariner of the Seas but that I would have to get tickets to tender on NCL. Then a few posts later someone responds to my post by saying "you'll be so exhausted and depleted from hunger while waiting for 2 hours for an "any-time" dining experience, you'll be too tired to get up that early for the first tender anyway." This came from out of no where. What in the heck? Here is the thread.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=679179

Oh, that's gorc. He's never been on an NCL ship or even one with anytime. He's all upset because RCI is introducing My Time and is on every thread about it spreading the gospel. He reproduces every known negative about it and saying it is the truth.

 

He's one of those we've been talking about.:rolleyes: