Fuel Surcharge Illegal?

[Goofyisme]

Man glad my life isn't this complicated so that I have to invent all these schemes.

[VentureMan_2000]

I haven't read the contract in great detail, but I wonder if they have a clause saying they can increase their fair any time they want before departure.

 

I know the National Park System does this with the accomidations at Yosemite National Park. They have been known to raise the pricve 4 time in a one month period... and you have to pay the increase regardless of whether you have already paid in full. If you refuse, then they take your reservation from you.

 

Anyway, I feel stongly that if you don't like a policy or price, you should vote with your feet, and walk away from the deal.

[DanusLight]

I haven't read the contract in great detail, but I wonder if they have a clause saying they can increase their fair any time they want before departure.

 

Anyway, I feel stongly that if you don't like a policy or price, you should vote with your feet, and walk away from the deal.

 

Sounds like they do:

 

7. CARNIVAL’S RIGHT TO INCREASE FARES, CANCEL OR CHANGE VOYAGE

(a) Carnival reserves the right to increase published rates and air fare supplements without prior notice. However, fully paid or deposited guests will be protected, except for fuel supplements, government taxes, other surcharges and changes to deposit, payment and cancellation terms/conditions which are subject to change without notice.

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/ticket_contract.aspx

[dan40]

No I wouldn't as my cabin is free 100% of the time as I have tons of points.

Secondly, I don't want them on the auto-tip as there are to many taking a cut.

I have a system I have been using for a while and it is designed to beat their system.I remove the tips from 3 cabins and at the end of the cruise I tip for all 3 cabins just from my cabin so if they must report the tips,and they get to keep all extra,then they got triple from my cabin and got stuck from the other two.Since all cabins are next to each other we have always had the same steward and he/she knows I am the one who is responsible for the other 2 cabins.Same goes for the waiters,but they get extra as they are also the lido workers.

 

I'm thinking your system allows you to be very forgetful at tip time. Or I don't believe a word of this post. Just my opinion.

 

Dan

[sea_u_onboard]

They could have just accessed the fee in the price of the trip and not told anyone why the prices were jacked up. Most people pay $30+ a week to fill up their cars- I don't see what the difference is.

The difference is that if they just added the price to the cruise price no one would have had an issue with it because deposited and paid in full cruises do not incur price increases. The people that are upset (whiners as some would call us) are the ones that already booked their cruise at an agreed on price and then were told that a surcharge was going to be accessed. No problem with higher prices just give the consumer the option before they lay down their money.

[jessemon]

Can you post this again - with English subtitles? And while you are at it, explain what your tipping system has to do with the fuel supplement.

ROFLMAO......;)

[rjg41]

My DH found this article at MSNBC which states that, "some cruise lines have hedged their fuel costs, which means they aren’t really paying more for energy. And...that those same cruise lines also agreed in 1997 to not charge any fees in addition to the advertised initial ticket price, except those actually passed on by the company to a government agency."

 

Here's a link to the article: Fuel Surcharge Illegal?

 

If you click on the link in the original article just after the "1997" it takes you to the Florida State Attorney General's Office Website. Here it is: Florida Attorney General

 

This details the settlement of a lawsuit in 1997 against Carnival Cruise Lines, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd., Norwegian Cruise Line Limited, Celebrity Cruises Inc., Dolphin Cruise Line and Majesty Cruise Line. This agreement states that the cruise lines can no longer charge customers any fees in addition to the advertised initial ticket price except those fees actually passed on by the company to a governmental agency. This includes Fuel Surcharge!

 

I'm wondering what my fellow, CC'ers think....

 

 

While there may be other legal issues in the surcharge, the facts are that this settlement referenced related to taxes and fees and nowhere are the words "Fuel Surcharge" mentioned as suggested by the OP

[VentureMan_2000]

As posted, here is section 7.a of your contract:

 

7. CARNIVAL’S RIGHT TO INCREASE FARES, CANCEL OR CHANGE VOYAGE

(a) Carnival reserves the right to increase published rates and air fare supplements without prior notice. However, fully paid or deposited guests will be protected, except for fuel supplements, government taxes, other surcharges and changes to deposit, payment and cancellation terms/conditions which are subject to change without notice.

[Snorkel2Much]

As posted, here is section 7.a of your contract:

 

7. CARNIVAL’S RIGHT TO INCREASE FARES, CANCEL OR CHANGE VOYAGE

(a) Carnival reserves the right to increase published rates and air fare supplements without prior notice. However, fully paid or deposited guests will be protected, except for fuel supplements, government taxes, other surcharges and changes to deposit, payment and cancellation terms/conditions which are subject to change without notice.

Which is not the contract wording I have dated November 5th, 2007 from my paid in full cruise for March 1st 2008. But that's been covered repeatedly in other threads. :rolleyes:

[DanusLight]

Which is not the contract wording I have dated November 5th, 2007 from my paid in full cruise for March 1st 2008. But that's been covered repeatedly in other threads. :rolleyes:

 

Snorkel, you bring up a good point. Would we not be obligated to the contract that was in force at the time of booking? Unless there is wording somewhere in there that CCL can change the contract at will.... :confused:

 

 

appears they do: 1 (g) This contract constitutes the entire agreement between Carnival and Guest and supersedes all other agreements, oral or written. Any alteration to any term of this contract must be in writing and authorized by Carnival. Except as provided in Clause 13 below, should any provision of this contract be contrary to or invalid by virtue of the law of the jurisdiction in which this contract is sought to be enforced or be so held by a court of competent jurisdiction, such provision(s) shall be deemed to be severed from the Contract and of no effect and all remaining provisions herein shall be in full force and effect and constitute the Contract of Carriage.

[jessemon]

I say someone here that thinks what they did is illegal should file a lawsuit and see how far you get. When all your money is gone...let us all know how you made out..........:p

[futaba951]

[quote=BJAMINGIRL;13128773

If you want to make the point you are talking about...sail on NCLA in Hawaii. Those employees are US citizen's who are unionized and make a decent wage and expect tips to be the icing on their cake. They are able to walk off the job at will an could make the cruiseline hurt.

 

 

They have and they have.

[BetterLateThannever]

#These people, from my experience do not think like us Capitalist American pigs.

 

 

Puhleeeez! While you're wallowing in your Captalist guilt complex, spare the rest of us. There's sure no other place I'd rather be, and based on the numbers of people attempting to get into this great Capitalist country, I'd say I'm not the only one.

[jessemon]

They have and they have.

And they NCL are moving their ships out of there and reflagging them.....no more union...no more jobs for the Americans that can't take the hours.....Boo-Hoo.........;)

[Cuizer2]

I say someone here that thinks what they did is illegal should file a lawsuit and see how far you get. When all your money is gone...let us all know how you made out..........:p

You are getting a couple of terms mixed up. If something is illegal, then a representative of the "people" (meaning a government employee) will file the criminal charges and handle the prosecution. The tax payers will fund the prosecution.

 

If there is a civil wrong, then a private citizen can file a lawsuit. How much, if any, the private citizen would have to pay, would be determined by the retainer agreement. Some retainer agreements have a provision where there is no cost to the client if the attorney is unable to collect anything.

 

With cases such as this, were each individual amount is small, an attorney could still take the case if (s)he was able to file the lawsuit as a class action. In order to proceed as a class action, a judge must certify the class.

 

Now someone posted that the contract does not allow class actions. If the judge finds that such is clause is unenforceable for any reason (such as being against public policy) then the class action could proceed.

 

At any rate, the smart thing to do at this time is to wait and see what the AGs do.

[jessemon]

You are getting a couple of terms mixed up. If something is illegal, then a representative of the "people" (meaning a government employee) will file the criminal charges and handle the prosecution. The tax payers will fund the prosecution.

 

If there is a civil wrong, then a private citizen can file a lawsuit. How much, if any, the private citizen would have to pay, would be determined by the retainer agreement. Some retainer agreements have a provision where there is no cost to the client if the attorney is unable to collect anything.

 

With cases such as this, were each individual amount is small, an attorney could still take the case if (s)he was able to file the lawsuit as a class action. In order to proceed as a class action, a judge must certify the class.

 

Now someone posted that the contract does not allow class actions. If the judge finds that such is clause is unenforceable for any reason (such as being against public policy) then the class action could proceed.

 

At any rate, the smart thing to do at this time is to wait and see what the AGs do.

Again...if you or anyone thinks it is wrong...file a suit.....Or give them the $5.00 a day or cancel the cruise that you have booked.

Look at the contract before the Nov 5th date and the AG can not do a thing. Carnival at that time had the right per contract to change prices and add surcharges no matter how much it is beaten too death like a dead horse on this thread.;)

PS: I have not a thing mixed up. Please reread my post. it is directed to any individual that thinks they can win. Not a class action.

Please everyone...Pay the $5.00 or cancel your cruise. I don't want to listen to people gripen about it on the ship. Oh my God I can't do a shore excursion because I have to pay a $5.00 fuel surcharge a day. If I have to pay this my children will go shoeless in the fall. My dog will go hungry...Please.........

[rjg41]

And they NCL are moving their ships out of there and reflagging them.....no more union...no more jobs for the Americans that can't take the hours.....Boo-Hoo.........;)

 

Off topic but yes, the American workers have caused a major problem for NCL and hurt their entire brand but they also have some brand wide problems which have nothing to do with Hawaii. However, to be accurate there are plans to move only one ship from Hawaii leaving the other two there.

[Jackrjc]

Look at the contract before the Nov 5th date and the AG can not do a thing. Carnival at that time had the right per contract to change prices and add surcharges no matter how much it is beaten too death like a dead horse on this thread.;)

Question: If this is the case why do you think Carnival deemed it necessary to change the wording of the contract concerning the fuel surcharge on the day that they implemented the surcharge? They delinked it with the other charges. I have asked this before, but have not seen an opinion or reason stated by those who think the old contract was good enough.

I agree this has been beaten to death. But for me, I thought it was less than ethical for Carnival to add the surcharge to prepaid cruises, and so stated to Carnival, contacted the Florida AG and then I moved on. This will not affect our vacation at all. We certainly will not stiff the Carnival staff who have nothing to do with the surcharge and we will not do less or drink less. To me this does not make sense, I go on vacation to have a great time, not deny myself of something just to get even with Carnival.

[Snorkel2Much]

Again...if you or anyone thinks it is wrong...file a suit.....Or give them the $5.00 a day or cancel the cruise that you have booked. ...{snip}...

Why are you insisting that filing a complaint with the local AG is an unacceptable action?

 

 

Please everyone...Pay the $5.00 or cancel your cruise. I don't want to listen to people gripen about it on the ship....{snip}...

There's a word that describes the attitude you're showing here.........wait for it...............wait................ "Selfish"

 

 

...{snip}...Oh my God I can't do a shore excursion because I have to pay a $5.00 fuel surcharge a day. If I have to pay this my children will go shoeless in the fall. My dog will go hungry...Please.........

Deliberate mischaracterization of how petty others motives must be, coming from the author of recent posts like this one:

A $5.00 beer is vastly overpriced....If you pay $5.00 for a Bud on land your going to the wrong joint........:p

Please :rolleyes:

[GottaLuvCruising]

While there may be other legal issues in the surcharge, the facts are that this settlement referenced related to taxes and fees and nowhere are the words "Fuel Surcharge" mentioned as suggested by the OP

 

Actually, the 1997 decision was related to the cruise line padding the port charges. The decision was that they had to advertise the full fare (including port) and could add to that figure ONLY government-imposed taxes and fees. The so-called "fuel surcharge" is neither. Cruise lines continue to advertise one fare, then essentially increase it. I await word from Florida's Attorney General...

[juliew]

I don't pretend to be an accountant but I wondered myself why they just did not raise the cruise price. I am betting it has to do something with how they can report the surcharge in their financial statements. In the cruise price it would be income but a surcharge maybe claimed differently saving them major dollars. Just a guess on my part.

 

The reason why they do not raise the cruise price is that the base cruise price is what is commissionable to travel agents. The "port charges", government fees and "fuel surcharges", if separated out from that are NOT commissionable. So not only do they raise the rate to the consumer but they also do not pay commission on those "extra taxes and surcharges". That is the reason.

[jessemon]

Why are you insisting that filing a complaint with the local AG is an unacceptable action?

 

 

 

There's a word that describes the attitude you're showing here.........wait for it...............wait................ "Selfish"

 

 

 

Deliberate mischaracterization of how petty others motives must be, coming from the author of recent posts like this one:

Please :rolleyes:

Wow...Look at this....I have a fan. Someone who even goes to other threads I post on and drags them over here......

This is way too funny..........:D

I am selfish and petty and I guess just full of myself.

I made a funny comment about what some think they might lose over $5.00 a day. Geez...sorry I have a sense of humor.

$5.00 is too much for a beer. But then again I used to pay 40% more for a cruise 10 years ago. So it all evens out.

If you don't like my comments don't look at them.

If you need to fish to other threads and drag them to this one I am sure the moderators will be interested in that action.

If I really bother you that much...hit the ignore button and you will never see another post by me........

Have a nice day.........;)

[DGP1111]

Hey, Snorkel (or can I call you Sherlock Snorkel?) :D . . . .

While you wait on action(s) by the AG, have you considered dropping an e-mail to Greg Dawson at the Sentinel??

Him contacting the AG to research the question just might pull a bit more weight than the average passenger/citizen. Just a thought.

[Snorkel2Much]

Wow...Look at this....I have a fan. Someone who even goes to other threads I post on and drags them over here......

This is way too funny..........:D

I am selfish and petty and I guess just full of myself.

I made a funny comment about what some think they might lose over $5.00 a day. Geez...sorry I have a sense of humor.

$5.00 is too much for a beer. But then again I used to pay 40% more for a cruise 10 years ago. So it all evens out.

If you don't like my comments don't look at them.

If you need to fish to other threads and drag them to this one I am sure the moderators will be interested in that action.

If I really bother you that much...hit the ignore button and you will never see another post by me........

Have a nice day.........;)

If you or anyone else believe my actions violate the CC Terms & Conditions, please use the "Report Post" icon in the upper right corner

of the post. Threatening to "report me" is otherwise a hollow statement.

[TCF]

There is absolutely no doubt that ALL the cruise lines....not just Carnival....made a huge error in setting in place a fuel "surcharge"!!!

I am not sure why they did it this way....maybe to make us and the various governmental agencies believe that the surcharge is "temporary". Of course if you believe that....then the "tooth fairy" will visit you tonight!

If they had simply said, "Sorry folks, we've been hoping fuel prices might come down before our long-term deals on fuel ran out, but that hasn't happened and we have to up our fares to cover the cost of fuel to power our ships." Everyone wuld have said..."we don't like it...but hey we understand...it's costing up more to run our cars too!!"

If you are so fundamentally opposed to the fuel surcharge....then don't cruise. It will serve the industry right for doing such a terible job of explainiung why they have to charge more for a cruise. But if your not....then shut up and take the cruise!!

It is really too bad that something so straight forward can still generate nine pages of really nasty personal attacks among people on a cruise board!