Rant!!

[Happy ks]

If I have told the dining room not to expect us for the entire week, then my tips should go to the WJ staff who have waited on me. If we eat even once in the DR, then tips should go to both. IMO

 

Does anyone know why tips for the WJ staff is not part of the envelops that they hand out?

 

 

In other words, you do plan on tipping the WJ staff $3.50 per person, per night, right? Any less and you will be shorting their income, guaranteed. Leaving a buck or two just is not a big deal, I don't think I'd want to work 60-70 hours per week for $25-30, which is probably all they make.

 

Although I don't particularly like the concept of a gratuity added automatically, the lines who do this now have happier workers, they are guaranteed their income every week. It's a shame that society has gotten so money grubbing that it has come to the point where this has had to be done. The sophistication has left, we are now a society that doesn't know much about propriety in these situations and we even have to have this type of "conversation" here on these boards.

 

Several years ago NCL tracked the people who opted out of auto-tipping, those people who said they preferred to tip the person waiting on them. What they found was those people tipped no one, ever. So, reading comments like "I want to tip those who serve me" makes me think people who make statements like that just don't leave anyone anything.

 

I know there are people who can go to sleep at night knowing they have been served all week by persons working their tails off for nothing, I'm just not one of them.

 

I don't know if tips are pooled and I really don't care. I look at tips as a gratuity, not a bribe but a gift to those who have taken care of us. I fully expect to give this gift when I book a cruise, it is part of our cruise cost as far as I'm concerned. We give it happily and would give twice the amount if we could afford to do so.

 

The very rare occasions we eat at a buffet on land we always leave a gratuity in the amount based on the price of a meal.

[LMB01]

 

I look at tips as a gratuity, not a bribe but a gift to those who have taken care of us. I fully expect to give this gift when I book a cruise, it is part of our cruise cost as far as I'm concerned.

 

I do not agree that it is part of the cruise cost if one does not eat in the WJ or MDR. We only eat in the specialty restaurants and therefore, do not tip waiter/assistant waiter/head waiter. We do tip extra in the specialty restaurants and the bars (and I agree with an earlier poster - this makes a huge difference).

[Lynnees]

In other words, you do plan on tipping the WJ staff $3.50 per person, per night, right? Any less and you will be shorting their income, guaranteed. Leaving a buck or two just is not a big deal, I don't think I'd want to work 60-70 hours per week for $25-30, which is probably all they make.

 

Although I don't particularly like the concept of a gratuity added automatically, the lines who do this now have happier workers, they are guaranteed their income every week. It's a shame that society has gotten so money grubbing that it has come to the point where this has had to be done. The sophistication has left, we are now a society that doesn't know much about propriety in these situations and we even have to have this type of "conversation" here on these boards.

 

Several years ago NCL tracked the people who opted out of auto-tipping, those people who said they preferred to tip the person waiting on them. What they found was those people tipped no one, ever. So, reading comments like "I want to tip those who serve me" makes me think people who make statements like that just don't leave anyone anything.

 

I know there are people who can go to sleep at night knowing they have been served all week by persons working their tails off for nothing, I'm just not one of them.

 

I don't know if tips are pooled and I really don't care. I look at tips as a gratuity, not a bribe but a gift to those who have taken care of us. I fully expect to give this gift when I book a cruise, it is part of our cruise cost as far as I'm concerned. We give it happily and would give twice the amount if we could afford to do so.

 

The very rare occasions we eat at a buffet on land we always leave a gratuity in the amount based on the price of a meal.

 

 

I have actually heard there are more sullen workers and the service is much poorer as the server already knows what he/she is going to receive. No incentive.

 

You can't change the outlooked of those who are not going to tip. No matter what, they are not going to tip. When "tips" are forced onto the bill they are no longer "tips" or "gratuities", they are a service charge.

[Lynnees]

In other words, you do plan on tipping the WJ staff $3.50 per person, per night, right? Any less and you will be shorting their income, guaranteed. Leaving a buck or two just is not a big deal, I don't think I'd want to work 60-70 hours per week for $25-30, which is probably all they make.

 

Although I don't particularly like the concept of a gratuity added automatically, the lines who do this now have happier workers, they are guaranteed their income every week. It's a shame that society has gotten so money grubbing that it has come to the point where this has had to be done. The sophistication has left, we are now a society that doesn't know much about propriety in these situations and we even have to have this type of "conversation" here on these boards.

 

Several years ago NCL tracked the people who opted out of auto-tipping, those people who said they preferred to tip the person waiting on them. What they found was those people tipped no one, ever. So, reading comments like "I want to tip those who serve me" makes me think people who make statements like that just don't leave anyone anything.

 

I know there are people who can go to sleep at night knowing they have been served all week by persons working their tails off for nothing, I'm just not one of them.

 

I don't know if tips are pooled and I really don't care. I look at tips as a gratuity, not a bribe but a gift to those who have taken care of us. I fully expect to give this gift when I book a cruise, it is part of our cruise cost as far as I'm concerned. We give it happily and would give twice the amount if we could afford to do so.

 

The very rare occasions we eat at a buffet on land we always leave a gratuity in the amount based on the price of a meal.

 

 

I have actually heard there are more sullen workers and the service is much poorer as the server already knows what he/she is going to receive. No incentive.

 

You can't change the outlooked of those who are not going to tip. No matter what, they are not going to tip. When "tips" are forced onto the bill they are no longer "tips" or "gratuities", they are a service charge.

[Lynnees]

In other words, you do plan on tipping the WJ staff $3.50 per person, per night, right? Any less and you will be shorting their income, guaranteed. Leaving a buck or two just is not a big deal, I don't think I'd want to work 60-70 hours per week for $25-30, which is probably all they make.

 

Although I don't particularly like the concept of a gratuity added automatically, the lines who do this now have happier workers, they are guaranteed their income every week. It's a shame that society has gotten so money grubbing that it has come to the point where this has had to be done. The sophistication has left, we are now a society that doesn't know much about propriety in these situations and we even have to have this type of "conversation" here on these boards.

 

Several years ago NCL tracked the people who opted out of auto-tipping, those people who said they preferred to tip the person waiting on them. What they found was those people tipped no one, ever. So, reading comments like "I want to tip those who serve me" makes me think people who make statements like that just don't leave anyone anything.

 

I know there are people who can go to sleep at night knowing they have been served all week by persons working their tails off for nothing, I'm just not one of them.

 

I don't know if tips are pooled and I really don't care. I look at tips as a gratuity, not a bribe but a gift to those who have taken care of us. I fully expect to give this gift when I book a cruise, it is part of our cruise cost as far as I'm concerned. We give it happily and would give twice the amount if we could afford to do so.

 

The very rare occasions we eat at a buffet on land we always leave a gratuity in the amount based on the price of a meal.

 

 

I have actually heard there are more sullen workers and the service is much poorer as the server already knows what he/she is going to receive. No incentive.

 

You can't change the outlooked of those who are not going to tip. No matter what, they are not going to tip. When "tips" are forced onto the bill they are no longer "tips" or "gratuities", they are a service charge.

[Lynnees]

Sorry for double post.

[bnjrsmom]

I have read this debate for the past few years and the one thing that really bothers me is when posters call people who disagree with the gratuity system - "money grubbing" or "cheap". That is not the case with most.

 

I have cruised with Princess twice (my first RCI cruise is in Mar) where gratuities were automatically added to your room. My family which is 3 rooms of people used the dining room twice over the 2 cruises. But, the tips were pre-paid. Let's not rock the boat. So now at RCI - they can be pre-paid or paid in cash...which brings up the debate again. People say that it is not the fault of the waitstaff that my family has chosen to eat the the WJ every day...but my question is this? If RCI was concerned about this problem - why offer alternative venues? There is no way anyone can make it sound reasonable to tip someone who didn't serve you.

 

Another point - again I haven't cruised with RCI yet - but on Princess in the buffet areas - we never experienced much service but were okay with getting our own drinks, coffee, etc from the bar. We didn't expect much with the rapid turnover and crowds.

 

I will say I always tip in land based restaurants 20% if not more. But, I have always thought that the gratuity in any restaurant should not be mandatory because a gratuity is supposed to be when service is better than average.

 

We have also stayed at land based all inclusives where it specifically states that gratuities are included in the package price. That does not mean we didn't leave a tip for the maid and that the waiters did not hint at tipping.

 

I would rather that the cruiselines increase their rates in order to pay their employees a better living wage so that tipping would not be expected but appreciated for outstanding service only.

 

I completely agree that it is awkward to hand an envelope to a complete stranger.

 

The process is just awkward all together. Either add it to the price of the cruise, make it mandatory and added to the room or there will always be two sides of the argument.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

Lisa

[wolfganghowell]

I gotta go find this review.......where is it?

 

And Phoenix, you don't get served before me because we always find "our" bartender the first day and then all week when he/she sees us walk in the door, our drinks are being made before we even get to the bar. :D :D

 

Oops - never mind found the review. Got your back on this Munk. I'm also amazed how EZ Cruise can be blamed for the nightmare of the parking caused by the fog delay. It was just a bad situation for all concerned but assigning "blame" for a weather delay seems unfair. I've had my share of weather issues on various cruises but what the heck....

[Scorpiorose]

LIttle Elm - you are wrong, straight out.

 

Cruisig is all inclusive it includes you room and board and transportation.

 

Just because it allows for extras doesn't mean it isn't all inclusive. Geeeez! It includes the three biggies, food, bed, the means to go.

All inclusive resorts dont include every little detail too and you can add on to them with spa treatments and excursions and gifts....etc.....you don't say that they aren't all inclusive.

 

Tips are on the honor system just as they are in restaurants. When you eat there you know you are expected to tip because their wages are adjusted down. Same with cruise ship staff. When you decide you wont tip and you are tipping in the windjammer (and yes the wait staff all work there - do you really think their is a separate wj staff? -two groups of ppl on one ship?) I sincerely hope you seek out and tip your wait staff in the wj- they are the ones getting ripped by you.

 

Of course - if you want to adjust down or up your tips that is acceptable as always. This isn't rocket science. Tip your wait staff for Pete's sake.

[Scorpiorose]

You are so right Happy Ks

 

I dont want to have tips automatically added to my cruise because I like the freedom of tipping up or down, this doesn't meant NO tipping.

 

Look, you should consider on a seven day cruise where you are receiving food service and maid service you should tip period. $7 - 10 a day isn't bad at all. Are you giving that money to the right ppl when you tip random ppl in the wj - no. You are giving those ppl more and others nothing. If you tip your wait staff everyone (hopefully in theory) is getting tips.

 

When some ppl say they want the freedom to tip individuals themselves and dont it's like a man saying he doesn't like forced holidays like valentines day and he want to spontaneously give gifts himself, except it never happens - sorry to all the guys out there who are great gift givers :p .

 

You must consider tips on a cruise like this in your overall payment - If everyone just tips according to cruise custom and then it should all even out. It's went ppl buck the system that certain hard working staff are shorted and it's all out of wack.

[Alexis]

I'm not sure if the waiters get assigned to the Windjammer in the evening but I know I've seen our waiter and assistant waiter both in the Windjammer on the Grandeur. On one cruise our assistant waiter was assigned the breakfast shift and our waiter was assigned the lunch shift. They always made sure they came by and said hi if they saw us in the Windjammer while they were on. They went out of their way to take care of us in there as well as in the formal dining room. Also, some waiters do need to be kept in the dining room for the days it is openened. The next cruise we were on, these same people were in the dining room for all three meals. Maybe it changes from cruise to cruise?

 

 

I have only seen the assistant waiters many times over in the Windjammer doing double shifts.

I have also seen the Head Waiters who must work the Windjammer for breakfast and lunch to watch over the servers.

I have been told by many of the waiters over the years that they keep their own tips. They say if the week was bad, it somehow all worked out in the long run because some of us tip more than others.

But, now with all the other places on board to eat, including the Windjammer, I don't believe they can do as well.

Wait, I have to put on my flame suit. :D

Besides the people who stiff them are becoming more common in my opinion.

That dining room is empty the last night of the cruise. :( I say, "shut down all the other places to eat". :D

I personally do not believe that there is a tip pool.

[FrancescaH]

When we got stuck in late seating on our 2006 cruise and therefore ate 5 of 7 nights in the Windjammer for the sake of our then 2 year old I asked about the tips. It's accurate that they work so many weeks in the dining room then have to do a week in the WJ for no tips. For that week we tipped our DR waiters the base amount for the week and then left an envelope with the WJ manager filled some cash for the 20 or so WJ staff with a little extra cash slipped to a few individual waiters the last night who were especially good to us.

[madforcruising]

First of all I share the rant of the OP.

 

Now a few thoughts to what was said on this thread.

 

We can discuss if it´s a good thing or not, if there are better ways to handle this or not and if the cruise lines should change their policy and marketing or not, but I think it´s a fact most of us agrre on that the servers onboard are not proberly paid by the cruiseline and rely on the tips to make their living.

I think the wording "tip" is misleading and should better be called service charge as it´s basically the salary of the servers onboard.

Having said this I believe to not tip at least the suggested amount is stiffing the staff.

 

RCCL has set up a way of handling the tipping. They decided to include only the DR servers and not the WJ staff in the tip routine. Now to level things out they rotate the staff between DR and the WJ. While as stated above the waiters won´t get any payment for the week in WJ it´s actually built into their monthly average.

So as long as people tip accordingly to the DR staff regardless if they used the DR or not the system still works, because the staff get the money and averages out with their "off" time in WJ.

Now once people start to not tip the DR staff because of not eating in the DR and instead tip the staff in the WJ the system is screwed up and people might get paid double while others get nothing. I.E. the waiter assigned to the DR table of these folks won´t get any tip that week, however his colleauge in the WJ get the tip. Now Next week the guy from the DR who didn´t get anything is assigned WJ and is unlucky again because his guests in the WJ roll with the system and tip the DR waiters, so no tip again while the guy who got tipped in the WJ has a full table in the DR again and again get tipped.

 

Again it´s like it or not but that´s how the system implemented right now works and not tipping DR wait staff screws the system.

 

Off if my soapbox now.

[phoenix1181]

And Phoenix, you don't get served before me because we always find "our" bartender the first day and then all week when he/she sees us walk in the door, our drinks are being made before we even get to the bar. :D :D

 

That's the kind of service we get too. Is it safe to assume he or she is "your" bartender because you tip them over and above the added 15%? It's amazing what an extra few dollars can get you............... :D

[Scorpiorose]

yeah, this is the way it will go eventually because cruise ships wont be able to attract wait staff ppl, good ones anyway, if there is a chance that they will be short a weeks pay, in part, because some ppl buck tipping the system.

 

It wont matter anyway, most ppl know that there is expected tips and they bring that money, so.....pay with cruise or at cruise, it wont matter for most ppl. I do like being able to adjust down a bit or up when appropriate.

[pjlee3333]

[That dining room is empty the last night of the cruise. :( I say, "shut down all the other places to eat". :D

I personally do not believe that there is a tip pool.

I tend to be one of those whose not in the dining room the last night of the cruise (or most other nights). :) My tips, however, have already been paid. I just prefer the Windjammer.

 

I do, agree, however, that when we've eaten in the dinnning room we've seen more assistant waiters/waitresses in the Windjammer than waiters/waitresses thoguh we've seen some of both.

[Shar27]

Our assistant waiter on the Adventure met us on the morning we were disembarking while we were sitting at the Promenade Café'.

We asked her what she was doing there and she told us she was assigned there for the whole next week of the cruise.

She also told us that she would have no income from tips that week. But, she said that is expected, and that they all rotate to different areas.

I do not believe that the actual waiters change. I believe it is the assistant waiters.

I have never seen our waiters in the Windjammer.

 

When I was on a cruise with my elderly mother, not only did we see our regular waiter, not assistant, working in the WJ everyday, he was kind enough to walk around with a tray for my mother. In fact he actually looked for her every day to assist her.

 

His name was Brian and he was from India. He was the best waiter we ever had and we gave him an extra large tip at the end of the week.

[Scorpiorose]

when hiring a food server the cruise lines tell them the "system" and how it works, the weeks off, the weeks in the dining room and the time in the wj. If all goes according to plan and passengers tip according to cruise guidelines, they should all do all right, and that is at least what they signed up for.

 

When ppl stop tipping it does mess the whole system up and ppl are short.

No matter how you slice it ppl go without this way and when you should be tipping ANYWAY, on a 7 day cruise with countless ppl preparing food and serving, you might as well do it the way the cruise ships designed it to work.

 

One other last note on my "rant" - all inclusive resorts add the tips onto your price, you are tipping, it's just put on top instead of giving you the responsibility and airfare isn't included in all inclusive pkgs often, so cruising isn't that expensive as compared to all inclusives.

[SissasMomE]

Popcorn, anyone?

[04cruises]

We never tip for service we don't receive. Do you tip the bartenders and staff when you walk by even though you didn't order a drink? However, when we get great service we will over-tip very well.

[Alexis]

[That dining room is empty the last night of the cruise. :( I say, "shut down all the other places to eat". :D

I personally do not believe that there is a tip pool.

I tend to be one of those whose not in the dining room the last night of the cruise (or most other nights). :) My tips, however, have already been paid. I just prefer the Windjammer.

I do, agree, however, that when we've eaten in the dinnning room we've seen more assistant waiters/waitresses in the Windjammer than waiters/waitresses thoguh we've seen some of both.

 

It was a tongue in cheek comment. ;)

I was referring to the olden days when everything was closed on the last night of the cruise as far as food. You either ate in the dining room, or you were darn hungry by the time you got off the ship the next day. Never had an empty seat. And, the next morning before leaving the ship, you had the same table and waiter for breakfast. Tip or starve. :D

 

I have never pre paid, but don't they give you envelopes and vouchers for you to give the help on the last night too? How do they know who to tip?

[Scorpiorose]

you are receiving services.....who do you think serves food and cleans up tables, you eat dont you.

 

These services are provided throughout the ship and you partake of them. If you tip your wait staff in the dining room it all evens out and everyone eventually is compensated, everyone who is servicing you. Your way, you are giving extra to some folks based on where they just happen to be stationed that day, could be your dining assigned waiter or not. It's random, people go short because you dont follow the system of compensating and everyone on that ship works hard and similar hours in a variety of places to make your cruise a good one.

 

Have it your way and soon we all will have our tips added because people can't be trusted to play by the rules. It's not like they can send the staff home because it's slow, we're on a ship and they are hired assuming you know the rules of tipping.

[Alexis]

When I was on a cruise with my elderly mother, not only did we see our regular waiter, not assistant, working in the WJ everyday, he was kind enough to walk around with a tray for my mother. In fact he actually looked for her every day to assist her.

 

His name was Brian and he was from India. He was the best waiter we ever had and we gave him an extra large tip at the end of the week.

 

That is how our Head Waiters were on the Navigator. They were there in the Windjammer overseeing the staff almost every day for either breakfast or lunch. They would be clearing tables, filling drink glasses, helping disabled people and every other job that needed a little extra hand.

In between they would come over and chat with all of us. They were a great help to their staff and their staff really appreciated them. ;)

[katiel53]

We were on Radiance last week and our waiter/assistant waiter either worked in the dining room or WJ for breakfast and lunch. The head waiter worked in the dining room at lunch.

 

We ate dinner in the specialty restaurants two nights, but still tipped the full amount to the waitstaff in the restaurant as well as additional tips because they were so great.

 

I, for one, am hoping that RCI goes to a service charge system so that all the bickering, name calling, etc. will go away and everyone will pay the tips.

 

I do know for a fact that the waiters/assistants do NOT pool tips, and the people who work in the WJ all the week (dinners too) are on a rotation schedule just as was posted on here. Also, in the WJ there was a tip box on the day tips were handed out so that if you felt you wanted to tip the employees, you could do so. I believe those tips put into the box were pooled, but I don't know if that money just went to those working the WJ all the week (full-time) as the others working their lunch or breakfast would participate in the regular tips.

 

I also wanted to add that we have cruised since the early 80's and as far as I am concerned, cruises were never all inclusive. There were always additional charges, ie liquor, chairs by the pool etc. For anyone who thinks they are paying up front and everything else onboard is included, (ie, liquor, Bingo etc.) is in for a rude awakening. I can't believe anyone would be that naive today, but I am sure there are some people who never do any research and ask any questions.

 

I fully expect to get flamed for my views, but hey, that's how I feel. YMMV.

[Lynnees]

you are receiving services.....who do you think serves food and cleans up tables, you eat dont you.

 

These services are provided throughout the ship and you partake of them. If you tip your wait staff in the dining room it all evens out and everyone eventually is compensated, everyone who is servicing you. Your way, you are giving extra to some folks based on where they just happen to be stationed that day, could be your dining assigned waiter or not. It's random, people go short because you dont follow the system of compensating and everyone on that ship works hard and similar hours in a variety of places to make your cruise a good one.

 

Have it your way and soon we all will have our tips added because people can't be trusted to play by the rules[/color][/color]. It's not like they can send the staff home because it's slow, we're on a ship and they are hired assuming you know the rules of tipping.

 

"Tipping" or "gratuity" is NOT a rule. It is a thank you for a job well done. A "service charge" can be a rule, but until the force a "service charge" I for one will thank whomever I feel has done me a service.