A Word About Formal Night Appearance

[Copper10-8]

If you don't mind Ma'am; "emo clothes", never heard of that! Could you enlighten me/us please?

[kryos]

Hence, the changing of the show times to 7:00 and 9:00 PM;)

BINGO! :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Are you going to the casino naked? :eek: If not, won't the clothes you change in also smell of smoke? :confused:

LOL ... interesting. Adds a whole new dimension to the term "lost my shirt at the blackjack table." :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[WhansaMi]

If you don't mind Ma'am; "emo clothes", never heard of that! Could you enlighten me/us please?

 

I have a lot of emo kids. Found a sketch that give you an idea:

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc58/shiana1996/Emo_Kids_by_megoboom.jpg

 

I like the emo kids. I suspect that, if I were young, I'd be one. :-)

[Boytjie]

I do not believe HAL is as upscale as "they" believe or the "finer" folks here who believe "they" are.

 

How could it since so many people insist of not following the dress code. :confused:

[Boytjie]

Ah yes, the church dress code is now creeping into the cruise ship dress code.

 

I don't recall ever seeing church that set a dress code. There may churches where the attendees' tradition dictated a dress code.

 

I also want to know if an Alaska cruise would trend toward less formal attire during formal evenings. Given the weight limitations on airlines and the heavy apparel that one needs to lug to a cold environment, does this affect the way people dress in the evenings? I'm taking my first Alaska cruise next month and want to be prepared.

 

See, I don't get this: aren't they the same weight restrictions when you fly to the Caribbean, or most other locations in the US?

[Copper10-8]

I have a lot of emo kids. Found a sketch that give you an idea:

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc58/shiana1996/Emo_Kids_by_megoboom.jpg

 

I like the emo kids. I suspect that, if I were young, I'd be one. :-)

 

Thanks, learned something new!:)

[swedish weave]

I will be aboard the Ryndam and the Amsterdam this May for two cruises in Alaska. I will be bringing a black suit and clericals for formal nights; on several Smart Casual nights I will wear dockers, sport shirt, and black sports jacket.

 

 

Do the clericals include a tie ? If not, I seriously doubt if they would turn you away from the dining room. Therefore, the interpretation of the dress code is flexible, and I doubt if those who insist on strict application would "turn up their noses at you" as they would me if I was not wearing a tie.

[Beebob1]

You say you observed that most people were wearing suit and tie or nice dress on the cruise. You do realize that this reflects the dress code, and that most (if not all) on the dress-up side of the debate would be perfectly happy with this. Do many of us wear Tuxedos or dresses? Sure ... many of us own them and wear them on cruises. But that isn't what is "required."

 

How could it since so many people insist of not following the dress code. :confused:

 

We were dressed in formal for the meals (:confused: required :confused: dress code). Didn't have a problem with that. However I would not have felt out of place if we were dressed down somewhat. Boytjie from the HAL website the dress code is left for people to question. That is Only if you go by what the folks here say is "required". From their website:

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies

usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

 

In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Cruise+Preparation&contentMenu=Baggage,+Packing+%26+Dress+Code&contentSubMenu=Clothing+%26+Dress+Code

 

Now am I missing the words - required, must, have to :confused: I can not find the word required on this page. It is wonderful for those who Like to dress up. Don't look down on those who are in the mind frame of being on vacation. Slacks & polo shirts are nice. RevNeal I think it is a debate because many insist on the word "required" SHOULD be in the dress code by THEIR standard. Also as you stated "would be perfectly happy", many don't dress to make others happy.

 

[pipedreams62]

Am I'm good to go?

 

 

[fridayeyes]

Re: weight

 

For the Caribbean, I pack shorts, sleeveless tops, strappy sandals, a swimsuit and a short, backless, little black dress.

 

For Alaska, I pack hiking boots, closed pumps, jeans, a heavy coat, long pants, long sleeves, sweaters, a long gown with a wrap, etc. Ergo, for a cruise of the same duration, the Alaska suitcase will weigh more and require more volume.

 

Just out of curiosity, I wonder if recent changes in weight limits, extra bag fees, etc. have caused a noticeable difference in how much luggage people bring aboard the ship?

 

On a tangent, I went to one of my favorite stores yesterday (Kohl's). They were having a sale and I am a bargain hunter by necessity. I found a black, knee length, satin and burnout velvet skirt for $4.00, and a delightful blouse with cascading, lace ruffles for $9.60. I also picked up kitten heel Vera Wang pumps for $10.76, and a black, backless, satin lined cocktail dress for $6.70.

 

Total cost for 2 formal nights worth of clothing?

 

4.00

9.60

10.76

6.70

--------

$ 31.06

(10.00) - They sent me a $10 gift cert for my birthday

---------

$ 21.06

 

Viola! I can dress up for about $10 bucks a night. :D

[fridayeyes]

Copper - emo and Goth are somewhat similar. Maybe you've heard of Goth? From the sketch, emo looks to be a shade more grunge rock whereas Goth is, well, Gothic-inspired.

 

Emo is short for emotional. At least the way it's spoken of in my neck of the woods, emo is usually a term of derision, as in, "So like, Jamie dumped him and he was totally emo."

[Copper10-8]

Copper - emo and Goth are somewhat similar. Maybe you've heard of Goth? From the sketch, emo looks to be a shade more grunge rock whereas Goth is, well, Gothic-inspired.

 

Emo is short for emotional. At least the way it's spoken of in my neck of the woods, emo is usually a term of derision, as in, "So like, Jamie dumped him and he was totally emo."

 

Hey, thanks for the background! Yes, I was aware of Goth

[babyher]

Copper - emo and Goth are somewhat similar. Maybe you've heard of Goth? From the sketch, emo looks to be a shade more grunge rock whereas Goth is, well, Gothic-inspired.

 

Emo is short for emotional. At least the way it's spoken of in my neck of the woods, emo is usually a term of derision, as in, "So like, Jamie dumped him and he was totally emo."

 

 

Thats what I was thinking when I saw the pic. A cross between grunge and goth.

 

I think Emo is a big term in England .

 

They also have "chavs" which I guess are like the U.S terms "white trash " or another name I can't mention here :)

[COLLEYBERRY]

Re: weight

 

For the Caribbean, I pack shorts, sleeveless tops, strappy sandals, a swimsuit and a short, backless, little black dress.

 

For Alaska, I pack hiking boots, closed pumps, jeans, a heavy coat, long pants, long sleeves, sweaters, a long gown with a wrap, etc. Ergo, for a cruise of the same duration, the Alaska suitcase will weigh more and require more volume.

 

Just out of curiosity, I wonder if recent changes in weight limits, extra bag fees, etc. have caused a noticeable difference in how much luggage people bring aboard the ship?

 

On a tangent, I went to one of my favorite stores yesterday (Kohl's). They were having a sale and I am a bargain hunter by necessity. I found a black, knee length, satin and burnout velvet skirt for $4.00, and a delightful blouse with cascading, lace ruffles for $9.60. I also picked up kitten heel Vera Wang pumps for $10.76, and a black, backless, satin lined cocktail dress for $6.70.

 

Total cost for 2 formal nights worth of clothing?

 

4.00

9.60

10.76

6.70

--------

$ 31.06

(10.00) - They sent me a $10 gift cert for my birthday

---------

$ 21.06

 

Viola! I can dress up for about $10 bucks a night. :D

 

 

Wow !!! That 's a skilled 'bargain hunter' folks.Well done ,I am impressed:) Your dry cleaning will cost more,good job !:D

[DizzyDallasDi]

I don't recall ever seeing church that set a dress code. There may churches where the attendees' tradition dictated a dress code. See, I don't get this: aren't they the same weight restrictions when you fly to the Caribbean, or most other locations in the US?

 

Church dress code: The Baptist church my grandmother and great aunt attended would have villified any woman who dared to set foot in there on Sunday morning in less than a dress and any man who wasn't wearing a suit. I'm guessing you didn't grow up in a southern state. :)

 

Weight restrictions: Winter clothes weigh considerably more than summer clothes.

[Boytjie]

Boytjie from the HAL website the dress code is left for people to question.

 

Different interpretation I guess. I don't seeing as being 'left to be questioned' but as a 'polite serious suggestion'.

 

[/color] From their website:

 

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies

usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

 

In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

 

IMO the 'usually' is used to give examples of what HAL sees as appropriate wear for formal night, not an indication that some people wear tha and others may usually wear jeans.

 

Now am I missing the words - required, must, have to :confused: I can not find the word required on this page.

 

And nowhere have I said it is required, so I am not sure if this is directed at me but since I am quoted, I assume it is. My comment was on a different matter.

 

 

Don't look down on those who are in the mind frame of being on vacation.

 

Why jump to the conclusion that people are automatically looking down at others?! :mad: Is it not possible that it is merely a difference of opinion?

 

Slacks & polo shirts are nice.

 

And shorts and t-shirts can also be nice. Why should that not be allowed in the dining room too? Or could you be looking down on those that like to wear shorts? :rolleyes:

[Boytjie]

I'm guessing you didn't grow up in a southern state.

 

I did not grow up in any state. ;)

[kryos]

If you're ever in the Dallas area on a Sunday morning, please feel free to join us at either the 8:30 or 11 am services. :) It's a laid back, liberal, open and welcoming congregation. I enjoy serving as their pastor.

I will definitely keep that in mind, and thank you for the invitation.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RevNeal]

You were going to let that go:cool:

 

I have.

But that doesn't mean that I can't reference the evidence which I amassed, when and where it is applicable and appropriate to the very circumstances and for the precise reasons why I did what I did.

[RevNeal]

<sigh> You asked for someone who mentioned pants on women. I complied.

 

Yes, you did. Thank you! I hadn't seen it and am a little surprised by it. It is an opinion I don't remember seeing articulated here often.

 

While I don't have the time, or patience, to review the posts in this thread again, I've seen people on this board (the stalwart defenders of the "dress code") wax nostalgically about how men used to wear tuxedos, and now they don't, etc... how women's pantsuits are NOT formal wear.... etc. While you say these posters are in the minority... I don't know. You couldn't tell it by the resounding silence from the "formal night" devotees.

 

I enjoy wearing a Tuxedo. I, however, have been clear in repeatedly articulating that the Dress Code doesn't mandate Tuxedos. Most of my fellow Formal Night "devotees" may also prefer Tuxedos, and mourn the decline in their presence, however I don't know a single one who would say that a gentleman who isn't dressed in a Tuxedo but who is dressed according to the Code's minimal standards (jacket and tie) should stay in his cabin. That was the specificity of my point.

 

RuthC suggests that those who aren't up the the dress code (yes, it is true, she doesn't define it, in this thread), should indeed, be hidden from view.

 

Yes, she cites the Dress Code where it asks that passengers remain dressed in the evening's suggested code. But she hasn't anywhere said that a man not dressed in a Tuxedo but in a jacket and tie, or a woman dressed in dress pants, should remain in their cabins, sequestered from view. Indeed, I've seen where she has stated that the Lido deck and the outside decks are all available for those who do not wish to adhere to the evening's dress code. That this is the request printed in the code is beyond question. That many people don't follow it is also beyond question. That it disappoints some/many of us who enjoy formal nights is also true. Those of us who share that disappointment will have differing opinions on this matter. But, regardless of our opinion, or the opinions of others, the code still requests that we remain dressed in the evening's suggested attire.

 

I find all of this quitte ... well, gruesome... to be honest. It is one thing to want to dress up for yourself -- for the people who love the opportunity to do so, more power to them. But to say that others have to do the same, or it "ruins" or detracts from your (generic) pleasure is just astounding, to me. What if having to look at people with oxygen tanks around the tables detracts from my visual pleasure? Should that be catered to? How about just general aging? Maybe some folks would rather see a young, beautiful woman in a sundress, than an old lady in a formal gown. Shoot, if we are going that route, all of us old people should hide out, because, really, wouldn't most people prefer to see a dining room full of beautiful people?

 

One can fashion hyperbolic arguments like this all day long, if they wish. It serves no purpose and doesn't make a valid point. The dress code is the dress code: it is not a straight jacket and has a very broad range of interpretation and application. It articulates a hard and fast "not allowed" on one topic only:

 

"T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours."

 

That this, too, is sometimes ignored is about the only thing that really bothers me anymore. If the Line isn't going to enforce the last-remaining "not allowed" to be found in their code, they should take the phrase out.

 

In the end, this is about *clothing*, people -- woven goods that keep our bodies from freezing and UV lights. Is that really something we need to judge/evaluate people on?

 

What makes you, or anybody else, think that this is about judging or evaluating people by how they dress? It most certainly has nothing to do with my preference for seeing people abide by the dress code. On cruises I simply enjoy, and paid a lot of money to be in, a festively formal environment two nights a week; this is how the Line advertises the character of their formal nights, it is what I expect to find on those nights and what I paid to experience. How people dress -- or don't dress -- will impact that environment. NO judgements or evaluations of individuals' breeding or intrinsic worth is either intended or included, and I deeply resent such intentions being plastered over me.

 

RevNeal, in your house of G-d, you'll accept people as they are. Should the dining room of some Dam ship be more discriminatory than G-d? Should *human beings* be more judgemental than G-d?

 

This is a non sequitur argument, but I'll address it nevertheless. Neither God nor the Church has a dress code. Dam ships do.

 

I'm really tired of people judging others based on their appearance -- from how they wear their hair, to the clothes they choose, to how they adorn their bodies with jewelry. It may not bring you (generic) visual pleasure, but others don't live to please you (generic).... they should live to please themselves.

 

I am really tired of people constantly assigning such motivations to the reasons why we would prefer that people abide by the published dress code.

[RevNeal]

Do the clericals include a tie ? If not, I seriously doubt if they would turn you away from the dining room. Therefore, the interpretation of the dress code is flexible, and I doubt if those who insist on strict application would "turn up their noses at you" as they would me if I was not wearing a tie.

 

No, they do not. I look like this:

 

 

Or like this:

 

 

"Clergy Formalwear" is nominally understood to be clericals. Ties are not worn with such "uniforms." Similarly, there are military uniforms that are not designed to be worn with ties and yet are formal outfits. They're part of the "exceptions" in Formal Wear Etiquette.

 

As for the Dress Code having latitude ... of course it does. Certain types of Tuxedos are not designed to be worn with ties (i.e., Nehru Tuxedos). These are worn with neckband shirts, and should have some kind of formal closure (i.e., a jeweled button cover). When I wear my Nehru Tuxedo rather than a black suit or traditional Tuxedo with bow tie, I wear my clerical vest. It makes for a different, formal night look from the standard black suit and clericals or Tuxedo, tie, and cummerbund.

[Beebob1]

Different interpretation I guess. I don't seeing as being 'left to be questioned' but as a 'polite serious suggestion'.

 

IMO the 'usually' is used to give examples of what HAL sees as appropriate wear for formal night, not an indication that some people wear tha and others may usually wear jeans.

 

And nowhere have I said it is required, so I am not sure if this is directed at me but since I am quoted, I assume it is. My comment was on a different matter.

 

Why jump to the conclusion that people are automatically looking down at others?! :mad: Is it not possible that it is merely a difference of opinion?

 

And shorts and t-shirts can also be nice. Why should that not be allowed in the dining room too? Or could you be looking down on those that like to wear shorts? :rolleyes:

 

I did see shorts & tees in Lido. I don't want to bash those folks, so why are you bringing it up . Rev you look wonderful but there are much more serious problems in the world than a dress code. I'm out, don't want to cram my thoughts onto anyone. Lets leave it as you stated a difference of opinion.

[Boytjie]

Neither God nor the Church has a dress code. Dam ships do.

 

Preacher Man, you said what I have been trying to say in so few words. Your sermons should be good :)

[RevNeal]

Rev you look wonderful but there are much more serious problems in the world than a dress code. I'm out, don't want to cram my thoughts onto anyone. Lets leave it as you stated a difference of opinion.

 

Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate it.

 

And, you are correct ... unfortunately, there are many far more serious problems in the world than a dress code on a cruise ship. It's the nature of this board that conversations such as these pop up here. In some cases this place is more of a "decompression zone" to get away from those real, serious problems and to share common interest and enjoyment of cruising.

 

And, finally, I certainly agree that it is a difference of opinion, and such differences are not problematic. Or, at least, they shouldn't be.