NCL Is Unfair

[mrtractor]

....there, frydskwid. Are you saying the cruiselines are.....

 

....in business to make money!!!!! SHOCKING!!!!!

 

Of course they are. And I don't mind if they do. I just don't want them getting rich off ME!!! HAHAHAHHahaahhhahaha.....

 

Seriously, I know a little about sales and marketing. One important thing I've learned is that customers eventually figure out if they are getting scr*wed. When they do, they will most likely find another place to do business. Is that why a lot of older, more experienced passengers use Holland America? Because their policy of rebating or upgrading is fair? Just asking.

 

I happened to be sitting at dinner one night on the Grand Princess. A mother was siting at our "Personal Choice" table with her daughter who had just graduated from High School. The mother brought up the subject what a bargain she thought her first cruise was. They had planned and booked this trip well in advance. She didn't mention what she had paid. But when another passenger told them what they had paid, (NOT MrTractor, I would never volunteer that sort of information once I am on a cruise. For the reason you are about to hear), the mother became absolutely distraught and sat there slack jawed for a while. Then she got red in the face. I felt sorry and embarrassed for her. I think it halfway ruined her cruise. When I asked her on disembarkation day how she liked her first cruise, she said, "Fine. But I'll never cruise Princess again after the way I was treated." She also said, "Wait 'till I get a hold of my agent."

 

I'm not saying that the agent had anything to do with the situation she was in. And maybe the agent calmed her down with the very reasoned explanation you just offered. But after seeing the look on that lady's face..... I DOUBT IT!!!

 

Maybe some passengers will even come back for another dose of medicine from a cruiseline that schtupped them.

 

But it won't be me!

 

MrTractor<------------says, "Fool me once.....," and all that there stuff......

[cliffd64]

....there, frydskwid. Are you saying the cruiselines are.....

 

....in business to make money!!!!! SHOCKING!!!!!

 

Of course they are. And I don't mind if they do. I just don't want them getting rich off ME!!! HAHAHAHHahaahhhahaha.....

 

Seriously, I know a little about sales and marketing. One important thing I've learned is that customers eventually figure out if they are getting scr*wed. When they do, they will most likely find another place to do business. Is that why a lot of older, more experienced passengers use Holland America? Because their policy of rebating or upgrading is fair? Just asking.

 

I happened to be sitting at dinner one night on the Grand Princess. A mother was siting at our "Personal Choice" table with her daughter who had just graduated from High School. The mother brought up the subject what a bargain she thought her first cruise was. They had planned and booked this trip well in advance. She didn't mention what she had paid. But when another passenger told them what they had paid, (NOT MrTractor, I would never volunteer that sort of information once I am on a cruise. For the reason you are about to hear), the mother became absolutely distraught and sat there slack jawed for a while. Then she got red in the face. I felt sorry and embarrassed for her. I think it halfway ruined her cruise. When I asked her on disembarkation day how she liked her first cruise, she said, "Fine. But I'll never cruise Princess again after the way I was treated." She also said, "Wait 'till I get a hold of my agent."

 

I'm not saying that the agent had anything to do with the situation she was in. And maybe the agent calmed her down with the very reasoned explanation you just offered. But after seeing the look on that lady's face..... I DOUBT IT!!!

 

Maybe some passengers will even come back for another dose of medicine from a cruiseline that schtupped them.

 

But it won't be me!

 

MrTractor<------------says, "Fool me once.....," and all that there stuff......

 

 

These stories are sweet, but I would love to see a list of passengers who only cruise on Holland America just because of the so-called rebating and upgrading policy. (By the way... show me in writing where this "policy" is outlined and whether or not you have to complain to get these benefits or do they automatically apply the discount to everyone when they discount cabins?). I do not believe that alot of people switch cruise lines or airlines because someone else got a cheaper price for the same travel.

 

No matter what you pay, someone else will always be able to trump you somehow. If you consider that being schtupped as you put it, I think that is open to discussion.

 

Perhaps these people should feel schtupped at their place of employment because they have to pick vacation periods well in advance. The question is... who do you blame for your schtupping?

 

Not all of us have your flexibility in planning vacations, and for that reason, I would never try to compete with you on who can get the best deal. I need to make my plans known at least several months in advance in order for my tasks and responsibilities to be covered while I am away, as do many people. However, I will never hold a cruiseline or airline responsible if someone else who is more flexible gets a better deal. Maybe I have a different sense of entitlement.

[newmexicoNita]

this is such an old subject and one that has many views to consider. Truthfully I think Reba is a whinner! As has been said, what about the person next to you on the plane, the family staying in the room down the hall at the Hilton or the gal who walked into the dept store and bought an outfit on sale the day after you paid 50% more. This is business and this is life. If worrying over what someone else pays for something is all you have to be concerned about be Thankful. NMNita

[kalamari]

Remember what I said on another post "Anyone want some cheese with their whine?" Or is it "whine with their cheese?" I'm not sure. I know it takes many people a long time to save for a cruise vacation..but regardless, in the end if you don't budget enough and end up complaining about the cost of everything, and if you dont go with the expectation you are going to have to pay more for most things, well, guess what...YOU'VE FORFEITED YOUR RIGHT TO COMPLAIN!! :) Menina

 

p.s. to Mr. Tractor, when are you sailing and what ship??

 

this is such an old subject and one that has many views to consider. Truthfully I think Reba is a whinner! As has been said, what about the person next to you on the plane, the family staying in the room down the hall at the Hilton or the gal who walked into the dept store and bought an outfit on sale the day after you paid 50% more. This is business and this is life. If worrying over what someone else pays for something is all you have to be concerned about be Thankful. NMNita

[johnql]

If you want to take advantage of last minute pricing you have to be willing to take the good with the bad.

Exactly my sentiments. Some people don't recognize or value the advantages of early booking. But many others do. Bottom line: do what's right for you and live with it.

[CastorFache]

Me thinks this discussion has come to an horrible end...we are beating a dead horse.:eek:

[breeding]

I believe you always give up something to get exactly what you want. I don't mind that I paid premium for the peace of mind that we have exactly the type of room and the cruise we want. I don't like waiting until a shirt I want is on sale to risk not getting the exact color or size I want. We give up time to stand in line to an open seating event that we want the perfect seats. Could we say that it is unfair that the people who did not stand in line got the same show? Like wise if you want to save money don't complain if you don't get exactly what you want. IMO!

[orcatek]

If you get insurance that lets you cancel for any reason. Cancel, refund, rebook. Of course you have to get new insurance too. So it may not save you, but at $300 it might.

 

Now I book early to get the cabin I want. It seems that those cabins are never avail as the last minute.

[Cruzin'Fool]

If you get insurance that lets you cancel for any reason.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can't just cancel without a valid reason, and a fare change is not one of the reasons.

[karfest]

This topic was covered in the new Vacations to Go newsletter. It basically says that all cruise lines discount at 60-90 days out, but only Crystal will give previously booked passengers the same discounted rate.

 

If you can wait to book, you can save money, but risk the category you want or the whole ship being sold out. It goes into a lot of examples of why not to wait (holiday cruises, special occasions, etc), but said you will pay more to get what you want.I find a rate I am happy with, book it, and never check the rates again.

[mrtractor]

.....It's my party

And I'll cry if I want to,

Cry if I want to,

Cry if I want to,

You would cry too,

If it happened to you!

 

dunt, du, dunt, da, du........

 

I'm not crying over anything. I'm just saying, I think that penalizing good loyal customers by charging them a condsiderably higher rate for giving you an order is bad business. I give my good customers a BETTER than average price for ordering machinery well in advance and in return, they give me repeat business. Why doesn't NCL see that's good business practice? I believe I'd book years in advance if I knew that I wasn't going to get schtupped on the price. And I'm not talking about $50 or $100. I"m talking about $300-$500 per passenger, which is not uncommon. Enough to pay for all your excursions and onboard account for a week!

 

I didn't know that HAL did this either until I booked a cruise with them a few years back. They called ma at home and offered me a rebate or an upgrade because the price of the cruise had dropped. Now mind you, I haven't cruised with them since they were purchased by Carnivore, er Carnival, so maybe they have changed their policy. But I didn't have to complain, in fact I didn't even have to call. They called me!

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "flexible." My schedule is often VERY INFLEXIBLE. I can't go in the spring. Period. I can't go after the middle of Nov through Jan 1. And when I can go in the Summer is driven by the amount of activity in the market place. I would probalby like to book a summer cruise well in advance, but here is what prevents me from doing that. First, if business activity is strong, I can't afford to miss a single sale (average sale is around $250,000). Second - THE CRUISLINES ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO GIVE CRUISES AWAY LAST MINUTE SO WHY BOOK IN ADVANCE!!!HahahahahahaahahAHAHAHAHAAHAHAhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa......

 

Frydskwid,

The next two we have planned are Spirit Jan 05 (AB) and Jewel Nov 05 (AE). I'll probably do a last minute this summer, too.......

 

.......when they start giving them away! Hee, hee, hee....

 

MrTractor<--------so many cruises, so little time........

[newmexicoNita]

.....It's my party

And I'll cry if I want to,

Cry if I want to,

Cry if I want to,

You would cry too,

If it happened to you!

 

dunt, du, dunt, da, du........

 

I'm not crying over anything. I'm just saying, I think that penalizing good loyal customers by charging them a condsiderably higher rate for giving you an order is bad business. I give my good customers a BETTER than average price for ordering machinery well in advance and in return, they give me repeat business. Why doesn't NCL see that's good business practice? I believe I'd book years in advance if I knew that I wasn't going to get schtupped on the price. And I'm not talking about $50 or $100. I"m talking about $300-$500 per passenger, which is not uncommon. Enough to pay for all your excursions and onboard account for a week!

 

I didn't know that HAL did this either until I booked a cruise with them a few years back. They called ma at home and offered me a rebate or an upgrade because the price of the cruise had dropped. Now mind you, I haven't cruised with them since they were purchased by Carnivore, er Carnival, so maybe they have changed their policy. But I didn't have to complain, in fact I didn't even have to call. They called me!

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "flexible." My schedule is often VERY INFLEXIBLE. I can't go in the spring. Period. I can't go after the middle of Nov through Jan 1. And when I can go in the Summer is driven by the amount of activity in the market place. I would probalby like to book a summer cruise well in advance, but here is what prevents me from doing that. First, if business activity is strong, I can't afford to miss a single sale (average sale is around $250,000). Second - THE CRUISLINES ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO GIVE CRUISES AWAY LAST MINUTE SO WHY BOOK IN ADVANCE!!!HahahahahahaahahAHAHAHAHAAHAHAhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa......

 

Frydskwid,

The next two we have planned are Spirit Jan 05 (AB) and Jewel Nov 05 (AE). I'll probably do a last minute this summer, too.......

 

.......when they start giving them away! Hee, hee, hee....

 

MrTractor<--------so many cruises, so little time........

 

 

I'm not doubting you for 1 minute when you say HAL does give rebates and upgrades, but how long ago was this? NCL did the same until about a year or two ago. Your point is well taken about return business, but it's probably not going to happen. I still say there are pros and cons to booking at varies times, just like getting airfare, hotels, etc in advance. Besure and let us know about your next two cruises. I have heard very positive things about the Spirit and just returned from a 5 day siminar where we heard about lots of new ships and the Jewel was one. She sounds almost too good to be true. NMNIta

[GregInCharlotte]

(Then again, so many things do.)

 

How many of us bought something at 'retail' then later saw the same thing on sale. or... waited for the price to go down and it was sold before ever went on sale.

 

When my brother booked his flight to visit this Christmas he said, "The price may be cheaper later but I know I have a seat."

 

I worked at the front desk of a chain motel while in college and the standing rule was, "20% vacant after midnight makes room rates negotiable." Then there were the nights were we were full and you couldn't get a room at any price.

 

mrtractor says <------------------- I love my repeat key ----------------->

and cut and paste... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[ron46936]

HAL does a lot of last minute price chopping also. We've gotten great bargains at two to three weeks prior. I don't think early bookers got the same prices we did.

[katondeck]

I just checked my cruise (Jan 15 on the Sun) and the room catagory I booked is not available and the next available one is three catagories down from what I booked and $300 per person more than what I paid.

 

I am glad I did not wait and I am also glad that I do not have to pay the increased rate for my room.

 

I have only cruised three times before - the first time, I now know from reading these boards, I paid WAY to much. I did not know any better and I did not have time to research. So this time makes up a bit for the time I paid too much. Of course Carnival got me to pay premium - but they also got me hooked on cruising.

[timrevis]

I'm not clear on why the price someone else pays for anything (a plane ticket, a hotel room, a suit, a meal) This idea has never occurred to me before and, having mulled it over, it just doesn't make sense. I've always felt that anything anyone purchases is a private affair including how much they paid. I've never cruised before so I didn't have a price in mind when we booked this. The price seemed fair (per diem) compared to other travel I've done so I was willing to pay it. Actually, the price seemed a bit low and it worries me some because if I compare it to hotel and meals when travelling on land, and then factor in the level of service they advertise, something is amiss and I am curious what it is that makes the price lower than it should be - but that is another thing entirely. Frankly, if I were offered a room in a hotel (including meals) for what this cruise costs per day, I would probably decline because I would think the beds must be badly made up with scratchy sheets or they use bad china or something. But, as it stands, I am very curious to see what the boat does and if someone got my same room for half what I paid, the bless them. (But if I had seen this room for half what I paid I probably would have been very worried and not booked it at all.)

[the4ofusandallourfriends]

3 years ago we cruised on HAL. a month before sailing...well after final payment..we noticed a price drop and were refunded the difference promptly. It was plainly stated in the back of the brochure. I don't see it there anymore.

When we booked with NCL, the agent asked if our price was protected up until sailing, they said yes....I highly doubt it, and I think it all depends on who you get on the phone.

I tried upgrading my cabin for the 100 difference on their website, they would only do it for 400. BAD BUSINESS! I told them they treat their committed customers like crap.

Will I let it ruin my cruise...NO. I'm okay with the price I paid initially and we travel as a group, so it's better for us to book in advance for all the quads we need.

Holiday House brochure,(Canada) which carries many different cruise companies...has a price garantee in the back. Up to sailing,if you find a lower advertised price for same, fax ad in, and you get a refund...Next time, I will book through them.

 

I guess you have to read the fine print in all brochures.

 

Really, how many people watch the prices after? I say make the people who do, happy, they should be happy for all the customers that don't.

[newmexicoNita]

(Then again, so many things do.)

 

How many of us bought something at 'retail' then later saw the same thing on sale. or... waited for the price to go down and it was sold before ever went on sale.

 

When my brother booked his flight to visit this Christmas he said, "The price may be cheaper later but I know I have a seat."

 

I worked at the front desk of a chain motel while in college and the standing rule was, "20% vacant after midnight makes room rates negotiable." Then there were the nights were we were full and you couldn't get a room at any price.

 

mrtractor says <------------------- I love my repeat key ----------------->

and cut and paste... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

 

Idon't know what hotel chain you worked for or when, but I bet it wasn't in the past few years and wasn't a Hilton or Hyatt. I guess if it is after midnight and the hotel is almost empty anyone can ask, but that is not a cruise: it's apples and oranges. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

3 years ago we cruised on HAL. a month before sailing...well after final payment..we noticed a price drop and were refunded the difference promptly. It was plainly stated in the back of the brochure. I don't see it there anymore.

When we booked with NCL, the agent asked if our price was protected up until sailing, they said yes....I highly doubt it, and I think it all depends on who you get on the phone.

I tried upgrading my cabin for the 100 difference on their website, they would only do it for 400. BAD BUSINESS! I told them they treat their committed customers like crap.

Will I let it ruin my cruise...NO. I'm okay with the price I paid initially and we travel as a group, so it's better for us to book in advance for all the quads we need.

Holiday House brochure,(Canada) which carries many different cruise companies...has a price garantee in the back. Up to sailing,if you find a lower advertised price for same, fax ad in, and you get a refund...Next time, I will book through them.

 

I guess you have to read the fine print in all brochures.

 

Really, how many people watch the prices after? I say make the people who do, happy, they should be happy for all the customers that don't.

 

 

I think reading the fine print is very important: also you referred to a particular brochure not an actual cruise line and an advertised price, not somehting someone stumbled on to. I still say no one should expect a refund or upgrade no matter what. NMNIta

[mrtractor]

.................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......................

 

If you understood that, Greg, I think we are finally starting to communicate.

 

MrTractor<------------wonders if "Greg" is really an elf - or does he just play one on CC..........

[timrevis]

My first job out of college was at the Atlanta Hilton in the accounting office. We had an entire desk devoted to "floating the racks" No computers then so it had to be done manually. It was basic supply and demand: when there were no conventions or events booked in town, and reservations were slow, the rates were dropped to meet the competive rates at the Hyatt and Plaza. When the demand was high, the rates went through the roof on all 1,221 rooms (imagine remembering the number of rooms twenty-five years later?) We rarely had walk-ins so the 20% rule didn't apply - however: on late call-ins, reservations had some lateral movement on the rates if we were not booked up over 50%. When I was in college, I worked night audit at a Holiday Inn that was a seasonal property. During school, the hotel was out of season so we rarely had over 20 of the hundred rooms rented(these were rented by truck drivers and a few businessmen) The rates were $16 per night. I was not allowed to drop the rate because housekeeping was set up to deal with those twenty or so rooms. If I had created a fire-sale, they would have been short staffed and had to call someone in and the rooms would not have paid for the extra help.

 

Re: the apples and oranges comparison: that's not quite true that hotels and cruise ships are not similar. I noticed on the NCL Employment board that they have the jobs on a cruise ship broken down into the exact same categories as a hotel: Food & Beverage, Housekeeping, Hotel Operations, Finance - so it is, in fact, a hotel except it's at sea. The proper comparison would probably be an American Plan hotel resort (like the Greenbriar or Homestead) and the rate structuring would have to be similar if not more strident because, after all, they (the ship) can't be calling in extra help if they're unexpectedly sold out. In hotel accounting there is a figure called "break-point": the number of rooms, below which, the hotel is operating at a deficit that day and, above which, it has gone into profit. The cost figures are calculated to a gnat's ass (including the cost of energy for the day and prorated property taxes for the day) so, if the ship carries that many people, I know good and well that their finance office knows at which room the ship started making money and, since hospitality isn't a charitable institution, I bet they sell off rooms at the end to cover overhead since they probably can't be sending over-staff home if the ship's not sold out.

[Gypsea]

Just to throw in two more cents...

 

The agent must have made a HELL of a commission on this deal to offer to pay the $500 not made up by NCL. My feeling is maybe you paid too much and I could be wrong. Now don't get mad but as an agent I never make the kind of commission on NCL product to be able to make up for a situation this big. Even on two cabins my share has never been that much (after my agency gets their generous cut!). So, you are either a fabulous customer or they charged you top buck to begin with which is why they felt inclined to compensate.

 

In another incident before I was an agent I purchased a cruise for 12/7/03 in March and paid a great low price. Four people in an obstructed view, $464 each. I was pleased and feeling very savvy. Imagine my surprise when CCers who booked later all paid less and had balconies or mini's. Could I, who had paid them MONTHS in advance, get an upgrade absolutely not. So, I do sypmathize, believe me, I was so ticked off I became an agent so hopefully I could prevent that from happening to me again.

 

Also, Princess will honor a lower fare if you tell them about it.

[fin]

I think the internet has had a lot to do with the pricing schemes of both airlines and cruise lines. An educated consumer with an internet connection should be a match for any salesman.

[newmexicoNita]

My first job out of college was at the Atlanta Hilton in the accounting office. We had an entire desk devoted to "floating the racks" No computers then so it had to be done manually. It was basic supply and demand: when there were no conventions or events booked in town, and reservations were slow, the rates were dropped to meet the competive rates at the Hyatt and Plaza. When the demand was high, the rates went through the roof on all 1,221 rooms (imagine remembering the number of rooms twenty-five years later?) We rarely had walk-ins so the 20% rule didn't apply - however: on late call-ins, reservations had some lateral movement on the rates if we were not booked up over 50%. When I was in college, I worked night audit at a Holiday Inn that was a seasonal property. During school, the hotel was out of season so we rarely had over 20 of the hundred rooms rented(these were rented by truck drivers and a few businessmen) The rates were $16 per night. I was not allowed to drop the rate because housekeeping was set up to deal with those twenty or so rooms. If I had created a fire-sale, they would have been short staffed and had to call someone in and the rooms would not have paid for the extra help.

 

Re: the apples and oranges comparison: that's not quite true that hotels and cruise ships are not similar. I noticed on the NCL Employment board that they have the jobs on a cruise ship broken down into the exact same categories as a hotel: Food & Beverage, Housekeeping, Hotel Operations, Finance - so it is, in fact, a hotel except it's at sea. The proper comparison would probably be an American Plan hotel resort (like the Greenbriar or Homestead) and the rate structuring would have to be similar if not more strident because, after all, they (the ship) can't be calling in extra help if they're unexpectedly sold out. In hotel accounting there is a figure called "break-point": the number of rooms, below which, the hotel is operating at a deficit that day and, above which, it has gone into profit. The cost figures are calculated to a gnat's ass (including the cost of energy for the day and prorated property taxes for the day) so, if the ship carries that many people, I know good and well that their finance office knows at which room the ship started making money and, since hospitality isn't a charitable institution, I bet they sell off rooms at the end to cover overhead since they probably can't be sending over-staff home if the ship's not sold out.

 

 

tim, I retired from Hilton 5 years ago and I can guarentee you if someone asked for a better rate then what they were holding in 99% of the cases the answer would be SORRY. If someone calls a res center or walks into the hotel of course the rates may have been cut over 6 months agos rates, that's a little different. The same holds true if you see a rate in Jan and wait til April to book, the rate may have gone up. I am thinking more as a general rule, not a particularly situation. There are always exceptions. NMNita

[newmexicoNita]

Just to throw in two more cents...

 

The agent must have made a HELL of a commission on this deal to offer to pay the $500 not made up by NCL. My feeling is maybe you paid too much and I could be wrong. Now don't get mad but as an agent I never make the kind of commission on NCL product to be able to make up for a situation this big. Even on two cabins my share has never been that much (after my agency gets their generous cut!). So, you are either a fabulous customer or they charged you top buck to begin with which is why they felt inclined to compensate.

 

In another incident before I was an agent I purchased a cruise for 12/7/03 in March and paid a great low price. Four people in an obstructed view, $464 each. I was pleased and feeling very savvy. Imagine my surprise when CCers who booked later all paid less and had balconies or mini's. Could I, who had paid them MONTHS in advance, get an upgrade absolutely not. So, I do sypmathize, believe me, I was so ticked off I became an agent so hopefully I could prevent that from happening to me again.

 

Also, Princess will honor a lower fare if you tell them about it.

 

 

As an x-agent and now one again I agree with you 110%. What kind of a cabin was the passenger getting for an agent to offer to pay the $500? that is one huge commission there! As for Princess honoring a lower price I will have to say it must depend on the clout your company has with them. Of all the lines, I have found them to be the worst to deal with on price as well as other issues. I guess it depends. I too would be ticked to find someone had paid much less for the same as I have, infact it just happened. One of my cliants paid $150 less than me on the Sea a few weeks ago and one other time a cliant took inside guarentee and ended up with a better cabin then my daughter and I but I didn't not blame the cruise lines in either case. I know when you book early there will always be the chance of better rates, there will also be the chance of terrible cabinds or higher rates. Life a gamble and I don't see why people let things like this bother them quite so mcuh. NMNita