Carnival lost my daughter from Camp Carnival

[80sramfan]

Couldn't agree more . . .

 

Uh she signed herself out and her parents gave Carnival that right

[kyrisong1]

I must disagree - the PARENTS are the ones that should educate their kids, if they are agreeing to allow the child to sign in/out. At 12, they have complete freedom of the ship. I believe in granting independence slowly...I would rather start my kid at 9/10/11 (whenever ready) with a little bit of independence than have it thrust upon him at 12 with no experience.

A&J I know you think you are right, as far as educating the children about people touching them or doing anything uncomfortable, and I agree that it's usually people they know that know that molest them.

However I have personal knowledge of a family that was very careful to arm the children with info on touching and molestation, the molester for this particular child threatened to "kill mommy and child if she told" he got away with it because the child was terrified to tell. So you can arm the children all you want and in fact that is a parents responsibility, but there are predators that will stop at nothing to continue and will use tactics to keep the child quiet.

I still believe in prevention as the best defense. We as parents are responsible for protecting our kids, and I don't think that not allowing them to be alone, at age 9 or 10 is "overprotecting"

My opinion only, but there are always other factors to consider, especially with someone as sick and demented as a child predator.

Carole

[kyrisong1]

Those are what I call "my kids can do no wrong" parents:p

You can teach a smart child pretty much anything.......but in the end they still have a childs brain;):D

And most predators are masters at picking the type of personality they can manipulate and control and sometimes a parent just can't arm a child with the type of knowledge they need to recognize it, it's called EXPERIENCE, it's why the parenters are responsible for kids till they are 18.

Unfortunately it sounds like the ships just might be a smorgasboard for some of these predators, sad, sad , sad, but true

Carole

[Socref124]

A&J I know you think you are right, as far as educating the children about people touching them or doing anything uncomfortable, and I agree that it's usually people they know that know that molest them.

However I have personal knowledge of a family that was very careful to arm the children with info on touching and molestation, the molester for this particular child threatened to "kill mommy and child if she told" he got away with it because the child was terrified to tell. So you can arm the children all you want and in fact that is a parents responsibility, but there are predators that will stop at nothing to continue and will use tactics to keep the child quiet.

I still believe in prevention as the best defense. We as parents are responsible for protecting our kids, and I don't think that not allowing them to be alone, at age 9 or 10 is "overprotecting"

My opinion only, but there are always other factors to consider, especially with someone as sick and demented as a child predator.

Carole

Now this is disturbing:mad:. I am so sorry to read this. Was the pedifile known by the family? All this has to be given consideration when allowing a child to sign themselves out. I like the idea of the buddy system for the older kids, but, something like this could still happen. It was hard for our Son and us to give permission for grandson to sign himself out of Camp Carnival. Glad I didn't read this first or I might have insisted on not letting him sign out himself. We discussed this point at length and I gave in at the end as long as the grandson used our walkie talkies to notify us when he left and when he got to the room. He also knew that he would lose the priveledge if he didn't follow our instructions. My prayers go out to the child you mentioned and their family.

[hayesktrm]

Unfortunately it sounds like the ships just might be a smorgasboard for some of these predators, sad, sad , sad, but true

Carole

 

Really? I disagree when people say a cruise ship is a city. What city can you not get off of. If there are all these predators (which I haven't heard about) they will most likely get caught because all the suspects would be on board...and they have A LOT of cameras. I wish when you had a crime in a city you could just lock down the city and that there would only be about 3,000 suspects...I bet crime would be a lot less. My kids have been cruising for years and they know not to go into anyone's cabin, period. I think a cruise is a great place for kids to learn some independence (when they're ready). I am very protective of my kids, but I think I have done them a disservice sometimes because they don't know how to do so many things that I learned as a kids because I had the opportunity.

 

The great thing about Carnival is that if you don't want to put your kids in this situation, they give you an out. My DD wasn't allowed to sign herself at first, but now I trust her. We go over how to get to the cabin and she knows all my rules. She also can scream really loud so if she was ever approached I am sure with 3,000 people around, someone would hear her.

[kyrisong1]

Now this is disturbing:mad:. I am so sorry to read this. Was the pedifile known by the family? All this has to be given consideration when allowing a child to sign themselves out. I like the idea of the buddy system for the older kids, but, something like this could still happen. It was hard for our Son and us to give permission for grandson to sign himself out of Camp Carnival. Glad I didn't read this first or I might have insisted on not letting him sign out himself. We discussed this point at length and I gave in at the end as long as the grandson used our walkie talkies to notify us when he left and when he got to the room. He also knew that he would lose the priveledge if he didn't follow our instructions. My prayers go out to the child you mentioned and their family.

Socref, the child is an adult and is fine now, and it was not a known person, it was someone in the neighborhood, not family or close friends. And truthfully I only mentioned because people need to know these people really do spend their lives trying to figure out how to feed their sickness, they do not play rational.

Anyway it's my opinion, and just having had our family touched so closely by this type of thing, I really wanted to get parents to think hard about the cost of freedom for kids and the subborn position of "it can't happen to my kids, i've forearmed them", believe me it CAN happen to your kids if the right person finds them and circumstances fall in the predators favor.

I totally am with the buddy system. A group of kids hanging out, maybe they could be annoying to some adults, but kids are kids and have to have fun. And they have safety in numbers, I surely don't mind seeing groups of kids hang out on the ships, in fact one of the nicest groups we met on a late night walk was a group of tweeners hanging out.

Happy sailing, Carole

[canner2u]

There has been alot of great and even not so great responses to the OP. My question remains, if they where at CC at 10pm, how come it took them 30 minutes to get to their cabin? Ok, maybe they were "looking" for the 10 yr old on the way to the cabin.

 

The other question is what "protocol" was not followed? Did she sign herself out when the parents had not given permission, was a staff member to take her to the infirmary since she was "sick" or was there to be a follow up call about the situation?

 

As many have said there are to many unanswered questions to truely form an opinion as to whether CCL is at fault or not.

 

We can flame, bash, laugh at or agree with the OP as well as other posters, however, each person, be them 10, 20, 30, 40 and etc., depending on how they have been taught and how they handle situations, will react differently to some degree.

 

I do believe,that even if you are a parent that would not allow your child, no matter the age, to be alone while moving from one area to another on the ship, you need to be sure that they know how to find their cabin, who to talk to if lost or in need of help, and their parents (guardians) names. It is easy for a child to get distracted an become seperated from those they should be with, s making sure that they know how to deal with such a situation is important.

 

Train, teach, and treat your child as you think is best for them, and respect that others may agree or disagree with your methods, just as you might with thiers.

 

To imagine that only the overprotective, or underprotective parent may have to experience the horrors that society may create for their child is just foolish. Small town, rural community, large city, family resort and cruise ships are all equal in respect to horrific things possibly happening. Honestly, while there are "stats" that may show this type of area or this type of person is more likely to be involved in something happening to a child, the truth is, it can and does happen anywhere. Sure, it may happen more often in certain places an with certain types of people, but that does not mean it can not happen in other places.

 

Trust me, I am not saying an 8, 10, 12, 14 or 16 yr old should not be allowed to have the freedom to move about a ship alone, nor am I saying they should be allowed this freedom. What I am saying is this, use your judgement, train and teach your children what to do, and then hope that that is all that is needed. Because, honestly, no matter how much we train, teach, protect and give freedoms to our children, in the end, it may not be enough.

In the end, it is about what is best for you and you child. Have fun on the cruise, treat you child the same on the ship as you would at a waterpark, themepark, resort hotel, vacation spot, etc.

[kyrisong1]

Really? I disagree when people say a cruise ship is a city. What city can you not get off of. If there are all these predators (which I haven't heard about) they will most likely get caught because all the suspects would be on board...and they have A LOT of cameras. I wish when you had a crime in a city you could just lock down the city and that there would only be about 3,000 suspects...I bet crime would be a lot less. My kids have been cruising for years and they know not to go into anyone's cabin, period. I think a cruise is a great place for kids to learn some independence (when they're ready). I am very protective of my kids, but I think I have done them a disservice sometimes because they don't know how to do so many things that I learned as a kids because I had the opportunity.

 

The great thing about Carnival is that if you don't want to put your kids in this situation, they give you an out. My DD wasn't allowed to sign herself at first, but now I trust her. We go over how to get to the cabin and she knows all my rules. She also can scream really loud so if she was ever approached I am sure with 3,000 people around, someone would hear her.

There are some people that will not see the light even when given a lamp. I'm not talking about the pervs that grab kids, but most predators don't have to grab them, they go willingly, they know what to say to befriend them, anyway I won't argue with you this point, it's up to you how you raise your kids.

I'm just saying..............

[G'ma]

AS a mother of 4. 13,9,8 and 2. I can't believe Carnival handled that situation that way. Thank god she was found and was ok. You don't know if your cruising with petifiles. What if someone grabbed her and took her into their room and abused her?? Yes I am protective to a point. THAT'S MY job as a mother!! If you put your kids in the camp THEY'RE responsible for them. NO matter how old they are... I feel bad that girl was scared and alone. She is only 10! Good luck. I hope you win!

 

Well, their policy is that a kid 9 years old can sign themselves out....it's up to the parents to waive that right when they sign the child up for the program.

 

Camp Carnival is not a babysitting service. It is an activities program with trained counselors. It's up to YOU the parent to stop by once in a while to see how your young ones are doing. It's up to YOU the parent to decide which of your kids can have sign out privileges. It's not their job to decide what a parent might think at any given moment.

 

This child in the story signed herself out (which she is allowed to do)... Her parents obviously didn't take the time to show her around the ship...show her how to get to the cabin from the public decks. Didn't even tell the kid where to go if she needs her parents....like the Guest Services desk or any gift shop, any employee....

 

Sorry...but if you are going to drop your kids off there, make sure you know the nature of the program..and make sure your kids know what to do.....

 

Your child is more likely to be accosted by a "petifile" (AKA pedophile or phaedophile) walking to and from school or a friends house or visiting grandpa than on a ship.....

[ladycaveat]

AS a mother of 4. 13,9,8 and 2. I can't believe Carnival handled that situation that way. Thank god she was found and was ok. You don't know if your cruising with petifiles. What if someone grabbed her and took her into their room and abused her?? Yes I am protective to a point. THAT'S MY job as a mother!! If you put your kids in the camp THEY'RE responsible for them. NO matter how old they are... I feel bad that girl was scared and alone. She is only 10! Good luck. I hope you win!

 

I totally agree . . .

[Sherrybaby412]

Originally Posted by hayesktrm

Really? I disagree when people say a cruise ship is a city. What city can you not get off of. If there are all these predators (which I haven't heard about) they will most likely get caught because all the suspects would be on board

 

Even if people cannot get off the ship midsea, how long do you think they can be kept onboard? They cannot keep us indefinitely. It's called false imprisonment.

 

Someone also stated earlier that they have pics of everyone onboard. There are privacy issues with showing these pics. How would you feel if your husband, brother, father , son or your own pic was shown to a child as a potential pedophile?

 

And before anyone says it, most children cannot give an accurate description for an arrest, in my opinion. Ask a child to describe someone and they might say they are old. Do you remember being 8 and thinking 22 was old?

 

I feel was have 2 jobs as parents. One is to raise our children to be healthy adults who contribute to society. The other is to protect them on this journey.

 

How we do it is up to us. Who is to say your way is better than mine? Or vice versa?

[tedjazz]

Really? I disagree when people say a cruise ship is a city. What city can you not get off of. If there are all these predators (which I haven't heard about) they will most likely get caught because all the suspects would be on board...and they have A LOT of cameras. I wish when you had a crime in a city you could just lock down the city and that there would only be about 3,000 suspects...I bet crime would be a lot less. My kids have been cruising for years and they know not to go into anyone's cabin, period. I think a cruise is a great place for kids to learn some independence (when they're ready). I am very protective of my kids, but I think I have done them a disservice sometimes because they don't know how to do so many things that I learned as a kids because I had the opportunity.

 

Don't have a clue, do you?

[tedjazz]

 

I feel was have 2 jobs as parents. One is to raise our children to be healthy adults who contribute to society. The other is to protect them on this journey.

Could not have said it better. Thank you. :)

[Nachtswerg]

I don't know if the OP was a troll or not, but this has actually got me thinking about how I want to handle CC with my 12 year-old in December. Believe me, she will not be allowed to sign herself out without giving us a check-in call, first.

 

So, no matter if true or not, this post SHOULD be driving discussions between parents and their cruising children.

[Cruise Cat]

Wow, can't believe this is still going. OP posted one post and left....

 

Don't let people like the OP get you all riled up and mad at each other. This happens much too oftern here.

[PACURN]

I think it is our responsabilty as parents to teach our kids what to do if something such as the OP situation was. Both my kids absolutly know what to do. They know to head back to the cabin and wait there untill we come. They know where to go for help should they need it.

My oldest child has Down Syndrome and can navigate the ship better than me. I must admit though, on the last 4 cruises we have picked the same room each time and it is Spirit Class ship each time, so I guess there is an advantage there.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sure I'll get flamed, but I think we should teach our kids not to panic, but to think things through. Critical thinking.

[cathyoo]

I think it is our responsabilty as parents to teach our kids what to do if something such as the OP situation was. Both my kids absolutly know what to do. They know to head back to the cabin and wait there untill we come. They know where to go for help should they need it.

My oldest child has Down Syndrome and can navigate the ship better than me. I must admit though, on the last 4 cruises we have picked the same room each time and it is Spirit Class ship each time, so I guess there is an advantage there.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sure I'll get flamed, but I think we should teach our kids not to panic, but to think things through. Critical thinking.

 

Four kids and no matter what we have taught them.. all four react to different situations in different manners. They themselves react differently depending on their location, their mood, the amount of sleep they had the night before and a host of other reasons.

 

I myself handle situations differently dependent on the circumstances. I think I am a tough cookie, NOTHING scares or frightens me (outside the children and loved ones thing). But could I have a melt down? Sure I could. If I'm sick, alone, tired, and in a strange environment is it more likely to happen? I think so.

 

I'm not a fan of blanket statements. Teach your children this and if you do that everything is going to go by your plan. "My children would never" and If you raised your kid like I'm raising mine the world would be a better place." My mother taught me a whole lot of stuff, did I always practice what I was taught.. hmm. NO.

 

Raising children is a wing and a prayer. I've seen too many wonderful caring parents raise excellent citizens and also have a child who is a dredge on society. I've also seen too many useless parents raise excellent citizens and they never did a thing right.

 

My 40th anniversary of being a mother is around the corner and the only thing I've learned in 40 years is that I don't have all the answers. 40 years ago of course I thought I did. I cringe when I look back at the "I'm going to be the best parent, my child will never" person.

 

Some how I can't figure how it managed to become a slam on this poster's parenting skills. There was a little girl upset enough to cry. Whether or not your child would have reacted the same way is not relevant. The fact that this child needed better from the staff is what is important.

[PaulMedik]

..................... I'm sure I'll get flamed, but I think we should teach our kids not to panic, but to think things through. Critical thinking.

 

 

 

PACURN,

 

No flames from me. Just complete agreement. :)

[Socref124]

I feel was have 2 jobs as parents. One is to raise our children to be healthy adults who contribute to society. The other is to protect them on this journey.

 

I am in total agreement with you. The OP shouldn't expect Carnival or anyone else to protect their children and shouldn't blame them when they failed at their obligations. The OP should own up to their responsibilities as parents. Either don't sign for the child to check themselves out or be there on time to pick them up. This thread has opened up some good dialogue. Disagreement but not much flamming. I have learned from this thread and I hope others have too. Don't think I will allow grandson to check himself out next time. I trust him, but.....

[11legend]

I have a question for those in law enforcement. What is the age that you can LEGALLY leave your child alone. I'm assuming its 13 because when I do my taxes :D it allows for child care until the age of 13. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Also just want to make a point here, although I have a few personal experiences that I'm not willing to share, I'd like to share this one.

 

When I was about 10 or 11 I mentioned to some neighborhood kids that I over heard something that I shouldn't have overheard, which involved my mom. BIG MISTAKE. From that day on, for years, the neighborhood bully threatened to tell my mother that I told everybody this story. I was petrified that my mother would find out. He tortured me for years and one time even pulled me into his apartment and put a knife to my throat just to scare me. I never told any of this to my mom as I was afraid the bully would tell on me.

 

Anyhows, my point is that things happen and alot of times the kids don't tell because they've been threatened or whatever so the fact that these people can leave the ship makes no difference if its not reported.

[kyrisong1]

.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sure I'll get flamed, but I think we should teach our kids not to panic, but to think things through. Critical thinking.

Totally agree with this comment, I believe kids SHOULD know what to do in case of emergency or if they get separated, mine always knew the place they should go in case of separation.

I am just not for letting 9 and 10 year olds go about by themselves, I think it's borrowing trouble. But to give info on what to do? Absolutely!!!

[nealstuber]

DS is about to enter JR high at age 12 and many student do this at 11. The number of sudents and staff is comprable to that of a mid-sized a cuise ship (not a city). I am quite certain that the per capita incidents of "bad things" is higher in the Jr. High. Yet DS WILL travel from class to class go in early stay late - we will worry much more about him there than going from the Pizza buffet to the show room with his sister.

[Rowan555]

I have a question for those in law enforcement. What is the age that you can LEGALLY leave your child alone. I'm assuming its 13 because when I do my taxes :D it allows for child care until the age of 13. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Also just want to make a point here, although I have a few personal experiences that I'm not willing to share, I'd like to share this one.

 

 

Most states don't have any laws concerning this - a few do, and it ranges from 8 to 13. We live in Louisiana, and there is no law dictating how old children must be to be home alone.

[Rowan555]

DS is about to enter JR high at age 12 and many student do this at 11. The number of sudents and staff is comprable to that of a mid-sized a cuise ship (not a city). I am quite certain that the per capita incidents of "bad things" is higher in the Jr. High. Yet DS WILL travel from class to class go in early stay late - we will worry much more about him there than going from the Pizza buffet to the show room with his sister.

 

This is a really good point. We homeschool, but I hear some of the stories from the middle and high school kids in the neighborhood, and I agree that these kids face a much more perilous journey navigating a typical day in public school than they would being on their own the entire day on a cruise ship!

[Toni12345]

Most states don't have any laws concerning this - a few do, and it ranges from 8 to 13. We live in Louisiana, and there is no law dictating how old children must be to be home alone.

NC its 8.. I wouldn't leave my 8 year old home alone!!