Carnival lost my daughter from Camp Carnival

[LemurCat]

You are right on with this.

 

No one understands better than when it has happened to you. I worked a lifetime with Sexual Offenders and other deviants. I have heard them brag about how easy it is to lure their prey in and take advantage of opportunities with their unsuspecting victims. After working with many of these people I was no longer able to allow my own children to rome free and easy and they seem to be well adjusted even with overprotective parents. Lives can change in just a few horrible moments, but it doesn't have to if you are doing your job as a good parent.

 

Let me ask you this, and I'm genuinely curious here. Is it your experience that most of these offenders are planners? Or do they act upon a compulsion brought on by opportunity? Because, personally, logically, it would seem to me that a cruise ship is one of the worst places to abduct and molest a child due to the fact that your ability to escape is really hampered *by* the environment. I mean, assuming the kid says something to a parent and the cruiseline security people are brought in, they have a picture of every person on the ship, and if the perpatrator wants to return home has to subject his or herself to able opportunities to be apprehended. I mean, maybe I'm overthinking this. Or underthinking it, for that matter. Who knows? I'm not saying a molester *isn't* to be found on a cruise ship -- statistics say they will. I just doesn't seem like the type of place a molester would choose to engage in their crime.

[nealstuber]

Let me ask you this, and I'm genuinely curious here. Is it your experience that most of these offenders are planners? Or do they act upon a compulsion brought on by opportunity? Because, personally, logically, it would seem to me that a cruise ship is one of the worst places to abduct and molest a child due to the fact that your ability to escape is really hampered *by* the environment. I mean, assuming the kid says something to a parent and the cruiseline security people are brought in, they have a picture of every person on the ship, and if the perpatrator wants to return home has to subject his or herself to able opportunities to be apprehended. I mean, maybe I'm overthinking this. Or underthinking it, for that matter. Who knows? I'm not saying a molester *isn't* to be found on a cruise ship -- statistics say they will. I just doesn't seem like the type of place a molester would choose to engage in their crime.

 

There you go being logical again!

[Kurbanfan]

I have a 10 yr old son and within hours of boarding the ship he knows where his cabin is. He has cruised 5 times and we always make sure he knows port side aft (99% of the time that is where we book our cabin). He is more than capable to get around on his own. We cruised the Legend in March and left him sleeping in cabin after dinner and went to show. He woke up got dressed and looked for us in the theater. When he didn't find us he stopped someone dressed in uniform and asked for help. They took him to pursors desk, paged us (we didn't hear it in theater) and then checked him into Kids club. He was the only kid there at 10:30 so the counselor and him went looking for us. We got our message on our cabin phone that he was in kids club and I went and got him. He was upset and it turns out he was running a temp of 103 when I got him back to cabin. I got a request the last day of the cruise to meet the head pursor about the situation and told him we were very pleased about how it was handled. We now know to leave our son a note where we will be specifically.

 

See this just shows how everyone differs........I would have never left my 10 year old alone asleep in the cabin........overprotective? I don't think so......

[Kurbanfan]

Let me ask you this, and I'm genuinely curious here. Is it your experience that most of these offenders are planners? Or do they act upon a compulsion brought on by opportunity? Because, personally, logically, it would seem to me that a cruise ship is one of the worst places to abduct and molest a child due to the fact that your ability to escape is really hampered *by* the environment. I mean, assuming the kid says something to a parent and the cruiseline security people are brought in, they have a picture of every person on the ship, and if the perpatrator wants to return home has to subject his or herself to able opportunities to be apprehended. I mean, maybe I'm overthinking this. Or underthinking it, for that matter. Who knows? I'm not saying a molester *isn't* to be found on a cruise ship -- statistics say they will. I just doesn't seem like the type of place a molester would choose to engage in their crime.

 

But this has happened......it happened here in the port of L.A.

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2360512

[spleenstomper]

You couldn't have given your 8 year olds sign in/out privledges. It doesn't exist for the 6-8 year olds on Carnival, only the 9-11 (and above) ;)

 

Geez, you are right. They were 9,9,11 for the last cruise. Thanks for letting me know to clarify. I can't believe this summer they will be 10,10 and 12! :eek:

[Sherrybaby412]

Who said that pedophiles are logical? With this reasoning , wouldn't they all just kill their victims so they wouldn't be identified?

 

As far as the ship having pics of all cruisers, I doubt due to privacy issues, they would allow someone to view pics without a subpoena. Just my opinion.

[tedjazz]

Let me ask you this, and I'm genuinely curious here. Is it your experience that most of these offenders are planners? Or do they act upon a compulsion brought on by opportunity? Because, personally, logically, it would seem to me that a cruise ship is one of the worst places to abduct and molest a child due to the fact that your ability to escape is really hampered *by* the environment. I mean, assuming the kid says something to a parent and the cruiseline security people are brought in, they have a picture of every person on the ship, and if the perpatrator wants to return home has to subject his or herself to able opportunities to be apprehended. I mean, maybe I'm overthinking this. Or underthinking it, for that matter. Who knows? I'm not saying a molester *isn't* to be found on a cruise ship -- statistics say they will. I just doesn't seem like the type of place a molester would choose to engage in their crime.

 

Both... Planners and Opporunists. Planners have more Victims, opportunists have more Headlines. I've worked with individuals that have had over 500 separate incidents with multiple victims through planned calculated grooming type of behaviors, then they got caught, once. I've also worked with impulsive offenders that acted on the spur of the moment, once. I'll not try to draw any logical conclusions about what one might do on a Cruise Ship because Sex Crimes are not logical to the normal person and a Sexual Preditor doesn't use the same logic and reasoning skills that regular folks do.

[crusinmama06]

Geez, you are right. They were 9,9,11 for the last cruise. Thanks for letting me know to clarify. I can't believe this summer they will be 10,10 and 12! :eek:

 

They grow up so fast! :D:D:D

 

Kurbandfan, I am with you. If my child is sleeping in the cabin, then that's where I will be too. ;)

[LemurCat]

But this has happened......it happened here in the port of L.A.

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2360512

 

Yeah, and that's one out of how many molestations a year in this country? Not that it really matters, as one is too many anyway, but compaired to say ... how many kids are molested by their Little League coaches ... and yet kids still play Little League. And how many kids are molested by priests but yet parents still allow them to be alter servers ...

[Sherrybaby412]

Here's another post concerning an attempted luring.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=983049&page=3

[LemurCat]

Both... Planners and Opporunists. Planners have more Victims, opportunists have more Headlines. I've worked with individuals that have had over 500 separate incidents with multiple victims through planned calculated grooming type of behaviors, then they got caught, once. I've also worked with impulsive offenders that acted on the spur of the moment, once. I'll not try to draw any logical conclusions about what one might do on a Cruise Ship because Sex Crimes are not logical to the normal person.

 

True enough, and made even more illogical with ready access to alcohol and a vacation mentality ...

[VOLLEYBALLDUDE2000]

"Carnival didn't lose your child...your child got lost" WHAT??!!! When Carnival MADE a 10 year old girl "sign herself out" then am sorry THEY DID lose that child!! As a parent who's kids are EVERYTHING to me, I would have been hurting someone! it would not have been good! This is a little girl on a BIG ship alone at 10:00 pm! I am sorry but they don't check the sex registery before booking a cruise, they will let ANYONE on the ship and who knows what could have happened!

 

OP....... I am so glad that it turned out good for your daughter!

 

I agree, maybe the situation could have been handled differently. But as the parent you know that free hours are over at 10.00 pm. So where were the parents at 10.00 pm. They should have been at the camp to pick up their kid. Too much conflicting info.

[Rowan555]

Yeah, and that's one out of how many molestations a year in this country? Not that it really matters, as one is too many anyway, but compaired to say ... how many kids are molested by their Little League coaches ... and yet kids still play Little League. And how many kids are molested by priests but yet parents still allow them to be alter servers ...

 

And it also comes back to where our kids are allowed to "roam" on board. These 12 year old kids were molested in a sauna. First off, I didn't think 12 year olds were even supposed to BE in the sauna - second, as a parent, I wouldn't allow my children to hang out in the sauna - which by definition is an enclosed, private space frequented by only adults. Could this guy have molested kids elsewhere on the ship? Well, sure. But by wandering into the sauna, these kids gave the perpetrator a perfect opportunity to victimize them. Had they stayed in more public areas of the ship - the pool, promenade deck, etc, it likely never would have happened. Again, this is where rules and boundaries come into play. There's a huge continuum between keeping your kids with you 24/7 and letting them roam the ship without rules or supervision 24/7.

[caribbean dreams]

and left him sleeping in cabin after dinner and went to show. He woke up got dressed and looked for us in the theater. .

 

Thats a bit much in this parents eyes But i guess we all raise our kids differently.......I've just seen to many things happen on ships before involving kids. Yes i would leave my child in the cabin for a short time, No i would not let them get dressed and come to a show looking for me.

 

On Liberty, there was an 8 & 10 year old left in the cabin, next thing we know they are crawling over peoples balconies (we are on deck 8) we called security, by the time they arrived the boys had crawlwd over 3 balconies (at night) to make it worse, we find out there was a 4 yr old girl in the cabin also, she has locked the top lock of the cabin door and was also attempting to follow her cousins balcony jumping...when security finally got the cabin door open, the little girl was standing on a chair with one leg over the railing.......parents were at a show.

[tedjazz]

Yeah, and that's one out of how many molestations a year in this country? Not that it really matters, as one is too many anyway, but compaired to say ... how many kids are molested by their Little League coaches ... and yet kids still play Little League. And how many kids are molested by priests but yet parents still allow them to be alter servers ...

 

Think about how many victims of a sexual offense don't come forward and those offenses go unreported. You would be surprised.

[A&Jfamily]

I may give her sign out privledges for that event and tell her she is not allowed to use the sign out privledges for anything BUT that. ;)

 

This is what many parents have done that are not comfortable beyond that; a simple understanding that she is to stay in camp until you pick her up.

 

I know you are not comfortable having her on her own, and I respect your decision as her parent. My only thought is as she cruises more, and gets older, you may want to let her have a little more freedom - ie leaving the dinner table to walk to camp. I think that is what most of the posters here are getting at - for many of us, this is a good age, in a contained environment to let a child have a small taste of independence. I have yet to read a post from a parent who is all for letting the kids run wild; rather, those of us that grant the privilege do it with rules and guidelines in place.

 

I hope you have a great cruise.

[Kurbanfan]

Yeah, and that's one out of how many molestations a year in this country? Not that it really matters, as one is too many anyway, but compaired to say ... how many kids are molested by their Little League coaches ... and yet kids still play Little League. And how many kids are molested by priests but yet parents still allow them to be alter servers ...

 

One is enough for me to take steps to protect my child........as far as those parents that let their children have alone time with their priests and coaches.......that is another matter.

My child was never alone with a coach when he played little league......

Maybe some of these molestations could have been prevented with a little less freedom.....

[LemurCat]

Think about how many victims of a sexual offense don't come forward and those offenses go unreported. You would be surprised.

 

Not really. I went through Catholic schooling. One priest molested and estimated 85 kids in my parish over the course of twenty years. None of the molestations were ever reported to the cops until the very end of run, and he was mysteriously transferred out of the US before he could be arrested. These were kids I knew, too. Their older brothers and sisters as well. Makes you wonder, doesn't it ... sometimes I see the paranoia over this and shake my head -- not every single guy is looking to fondle your kid; and then I remember all those alter servers.

[Kurbanfan]

On Liberty, there was an 8 & 10 year old left in the cabin, next thing we know they are crawling over peoples balconies (we are on deck 8) we called security, by the time they arrived the boys had crawlwd over 3 balconies (at night) to make it worse, we find out there was a 4 yr old girl in the cabin also, she has locked the top lock of the cabin door and was also attempting to follow her cousins balcony jumping...when security finally got the cabin door open, the little girl was standing on a chair with one leg over the railing.......parents were at a show.

 

 

:eek::eek::eek:

[A&Jfamily]

Lives can change in just a few horrible moments, but it doesn't have to if you are doing your job as a good parent.

 

Sadly, lives can change even if you are doing a great job as a parent. Do you know that the greatest risk to a child is riding in a car? You can be doing everything right, and still have your world irrevocably altered by another's carelessness. Does that mean I won't ever let my child ride in a car? No, of course not. There are people that refuse to fly in an airplane for fear of death; statistically, it is irrational, but they cannot get beyond their fears.

 

As a parent who loves my kids, I try very hard to distinguish between rational fears and those that are irrational. To me, fearing an attack by a sex offender with the limited freedom I give my child is irrational; the independence and self-confidence I have given my older DS with his limited sign in/out privileges is tangible and good parenting, IMHO.

[A&Jfamily]

Let me ask you this, and I'm genuinely curious here. Is it your experience that most of these offenders are planners? Or do they act upon a compulsion brought on by opportunity? Because, personally, logically, it would seem to me that a cruise ship is one of the worst places to abduct and molest a child due to the fact that your ability to escape is really hampered *by* the environment. I mean, assuming the kid says something to a parent and the cruiseline security people are brought in, they have a picture of every person on the ship, and if the perpatrator wants to return home has to subject his or herself to able opportunities to be apprehended. I mean, maybe I'm overthinking this. Or underthinking it, for that matter. Who knows? I'm not saying a molester *isn't* to be found on a cruise ship -- statistics say they will. I just doesn't seem like the type of place a molester would choose to engage in their crime.

 

As someone who has spent the last 13 years in the criminal justice system, your logic is sound. Far and away the largest number of predators are the "groomers' - your priest, your uncle, your soccer coach etc. They are not going to have this opportunity. The "abductors" don't have the opportunity on the cruise ship as you have suggested. That, IMHO, is what makes a cruise ship a safer environment than say a land based resort, in this regard.

[A&Jfamily]

Who said that pedophiles are logical? With this reasoning , wouldn't they all just kill their victims so they wouldn't be identified?

 

As far as the ship having pics of all cruisers, I doubt due to privacy issues, they would allow someone to view pics without a subpoena. Just my opinion.

 

Pedophiles are VERY logical...almost like serial killers...in their methods. As general rule, they are very slow to act and cautious when they do so.

[Kurbanfan]

Here's another post concerning an attempted luring.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=983049&page=3

 

Thanks didn't see that one........approached in the day time too......sickos!

[tedjazz]

Not really. I went through Catholic schooling. One priest molested and estimated 85 kids in my parish over the course of twenty years. None of the molestations were ever reported to the cops until the very end of run, and he was mysteriously transferred out of the US before he could be arrested. These were kids I knew, too. Their older brothers and sisters as well. Makes you wonder, doesn't it ... sometimes I see the paranoia over this and shake my head -- not every single guy is looking to fondle your kid; and then I remember all those alter servers.

 

Agreed, after so many years of dealing with these people (Sexual Offenders) I certainly take a different view of the world, not in the paranoid sense, but in the "err on the side of caution" sense. I have also worked with the victims and their families as well and they always blame themselves for allowing these things to happen (after the anger of course) which in many cases is completely understandable and many times the situations could have been preventable. I don't advise that we all live in a shell and never come out, just some common sense parenting and supervision and it will eliminate many of these problems.

BTW, check your Sex Offender register sometime, you'd be surprised how many are in you neighborhood and thats just the ones that have been caught and prosecuted.

[LemurCat]

BTW, check your Sex Offender register sometime, you'd be surprised how many are in you neighborhood and thats just the ones that have been caught and prosecuted.

 

No need, my sister is police commissioner. Our chief sends her daily updates.