Carnival lost my daughter from Camp Carnival

[Perfect Stranger]

A 9-year old is a little kid 3rd or 4th grade. They should not be wandering around unattended with 4000 strangers on a ship, in a mall or anywhere else.

[Wennfred]

The One Post Wonder.


Fred

[tammi0916]

A couple of weeks ago I was reading a review and they OP wrote about the following incident:

May 11th, 2009, 04:49 PM
[URL="http://boards.cruisecritic.com/member.php?u=253903"][SIZE=5]pgharea[/SIZE][/URL] [IMG]http://boards12.cruisecritic.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif[/IMG]
Cool Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 50


[IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon1.gif[/IMG]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Hey folks, I'm glad everyone is enjoying this review, I was very jaded as I wrote it, but to be fair to Carnival I wrote it as fairly and accurately as I could recall. Up until this point in the review, you can probably tell we were having a good time. There were a couple small bumps along the way, but nothing that would even come close to slowing down the fun we were having.[/COLOR][/SIZE]


[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I'm writing Day 5 currently but having a hard time of it, as there are details that I am currently working with Carnival to resolve. The horrific event that I referred to earlier involves the attempted luring of at least two separate children, one of which was my daughter. The other child's grandmother confronted this male and he threatened to follow her back to her cabin. [/COLOR][/SIZE]


[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Obviously there are many more details to this event that I am omitting at this time, but hope to be able to report in the near future that Carnival has taken steps to resolve this problem. Realizing that crime can occur any where, my main concerns with Carnival are the policies currently in place to handle such crimes, if those policies are adequate to handle such crimes, if the security crew on this ship were properly trained to hanlde such crimes and if those policies were actually followed in this incident. [/COLOR][/SIZE]


[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I will be back to provide more details as the outcome of this situation dictates.[/COLOR][/SIZE]



Here is the link to the entire thread:
[URL]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=983049[/URL]

So just keep in mind that we have to keep our children safe at all times! I have a 10 year old daughter and will be going on the Glory on the 4th of July (Whoo Hoo!) but will not allow her to sign her self out of camp. The ship is a very big and confusing place, most of the cooridoors look the same and to a 10 year old very confusing.

Stay safe and Happy Cruising!:cool:

[gatormama]

I have a 3 year old and a 6 year old, so this will not be an issue for a while, but I do think 9 year olds signing themselves out is a little ambitious for Carnival. At the very least Carnival should make sure the younger kids know where to go and how to get there before letting them sign out.

However, if that is the policy, then as a mom, I need to be aware of the policy and work it out with my kids. My son would probably wander for days. His refusing to ask for directions gene, inherited from my husband, has already been activated.

[A&Jfamily]

[quote name='wentworth']Sorry Rowan, each circumstance is different. Sure my grandchildren
ride their bikes out front of their house without supervision, but they
live in a cul de sac with 4 houses in a town of 2500 people, the
majority of whom they know. So not all people would feel comfortable
letting their children roam the ship or take off unsupervised.

Also, this is not for you, Rowan, but many people have complained on
this board about children running rampart on the ship with no supervision
and causing problems to other cruisers, i.e. in the elevators, pools etc.
If your child is not with you, how do you know they are not one of the
trouble makers while roaming the ship?[/QUOTE]

While I am not Rowan, I have 2 comments to make to your post. First just because you have 2500 people in your town, WHO THE KIDS KNOW, does not mean at least one of them in not a pervert...statistic would say there is one. So, thinking that they are "safe" in that environment is based upon a false sense of security; it is really no different (and probably worse because of the possibility of a grooming predator) than being on a cruise ship with 2500 people. If you have had good parenting talks about child predators, then your child should be prepared in either environment.

As for the "children gone wild," I know it happens...but it is not my kid. One, I have been known to check up on him - if he is not where he is supposed to be, then he has has tough consequences (confined to the room for the rest of the day, and then no more sign in/out privileges). Basically, it isn't worth breaking the rules.

There is a happy medium here. I give my DS a LIMITED ability to be moving about the ship on his own - not complete freedom to do whatever. I know where he is - camp, ice cream, pool, or room. And we are all back in the cabin by 10 - so you won't see my kid wandering around at 1 am.

[Nezmo]

[quote name='Wennfred']The One Post Wonder.


Fred[/quote]Come on Fred. The old "first post so must be a troll" thing is worn out. Maybe it's true but there's at least a bunch of decent opinions and information being shared in this thread (among the usual intolerance of others' opinions).

[A&Jfamily]

[quote name='gatormama']I have a 3 year old and a 6 year old, so this will not be an issue for a while, but I do think 9 year olds signing themselves out is a little ambitious for Carnival. [B]At the very least Carnival should make sure the younger kids know where to go and how to get there before letting them sign out. [/B]

However, if that is the policy, then as a mom, I need to be aware of the policy and work it out with my kids. My son would probably wander for days. His refusing to ask for directions gene, inherited from my husband, has already been activated.[/QUOTE]

I must disagree - the PARENTS are the ones that should educate their kids, if they are agreeing to allow the child to sign in/out. At 12, they have complete freedom of the ship. I believe in granting independence slowly...I would rather start my kid at 9/10/11 (whenever ready) with a little bit of independence than have it thrust upon him at 12 with no experience.

[Crusin6]

[quote name='Wennfred']The One Post Wonder.


Fred[/quote]
I wouldn't really matter would it if they didn't come back Fred as they posted their issue and let it be. I too dislike one post rabble rousers, but in this case I do not see why they would need to come back and defend themselves.

Regardless of it being a troll or not, the fact is the poster posted that they did not like the fact that the child was allowed to leave and was upset by it. They let us know and so be it. Now, none of us really wants to flame the poster for being upset about this, do we? It's their child, they have the right to feel as they do and all of us, especially you, know how dangerous strangers can be....sometimes it is even the folks we know and trust who can be dangerous.

[PaulMedik]

[quote name='tink24']To Paulmedik:


Just curious, do you carry lidocaine with you as well to numb the area or do you make your kids bite down on a leather belt while you stitch them up? I thought I was bad. As a nurse, I bring everything but the kitchen sink (so I thought!). Next time I'll remember super glue.:D[/quote]


tink24,

Yes we carry lidocaine and EMLA cream. Over the years I've removed my ET kit, cardiac drugs, needle cric kit, and chest decompression kit from my jump bag.

[quote name='bfkkbc']YOu held a cut together with glue?? Cool!!!;)[/quote]



bjkkbc,

Not just the cut, we also used adhesive for the steri strips. Steri strips are as good as stitches when applied correctly.

[quote name='dmdiver']Hey Paul, will you cruise with us in case we have any boo boos? Wow, and all this time I thought being prepared meant remembering the ginger pills & ibuprofen! :)[/quote]


dmdiver,

Sure I will. Pick an Easter cruise and you'll likely run in to us eventually. :)

So far I've only patched up three or four fellow cruisers. Hopefully I won't need to patch up any more. One of the fellow cruisers I patched up had fell in the entry way leading from the outside deck in to Panorama on a Conquest class ship (don't recall which one). He was an older gentleman and several people were holding him down insisting that he not move until the medical crew arrived. I approached him, assessed him, assisted him to his feet then to his room. All the while the good samaritans that were holding him down were talking pure trash about my helping him up after I assessed him. I fully understand spinal immobilization and protection of potential injuries. I also assess and clear people from back boards from MVAs and other traumatic causes on a daily basis so while they thought I was doing the wrong thing, I did what was in his best interest and I assessed him properly prior to moving him. After assisting him to his room, I returned to our cabin and brought bandages and antibiotic ointment to his room and cleaned his abrasion out, applied the antibiotic oinment and bandaged him up. He was very appreciative and explained his worst injury was the embarassment of having everyone gathered around him not letting him up. He knew they meant well and they did the right thing for most people. In his case, keeping him immobile until back boarded then transported via stretcher to the infirmary and X ray would have been a painful experience.

Wow, sorry to get long winded on the reply......ginger and an NSAID are all that most people will ever need on a cruise.

[Rochmom]

Okay, a funny story that illustrates a point. And this is a true story, I was there, okay?

During intermission at a school musical (1600 tickets sold) a 2 year old was separated from her mother. She wandered from the concessions area back to the auditorium - a long walk in a huge crowd. One of the ushers spotted her roaming, and took her to the sound booth. When she was asked her mom's name so that we could page her, like many two year olds, she said "mommy". Trying a different path, the child was asked, "What does daddy call your mommy?" To which the child replied "@itch".

Bottom line, even if you think you are always going to be right there with your child, the unexpected can happen. It's a parent's obligation to prepare their children for it.

[Crusin6]

[quote name='gatormama']I have a 3 year old and a 6 year old, so this will not be an issue for a while, but I do think 9 year olds signing themselves out is a little ambitious for Carnival. At the very least Carnival should make sure the younger kids know where to go and how to get there before letting them sign out.

However, if that is the policy, then as a mom, I need to be aware of the policy and work it out with my kids. My son would probably wander for days. His refusing to ask for directions gene, inherited from my husband, has already been activated.[/quote]
Your kids are still quite yound and fortunately for you it will still be a few years until they are going to be influenced by other kids, for the most part.

I would like to just let you in on a little secret I have come to understand in my 19 years of parenting (4 good kids btw), when the time comes for a little more freedom please do not be afraid to be politically incorrect. Do tell your kids if you approve or disapprove of their friend choices, do it right and by no means allow your kids to verbalize it to the friends....just ease them away from those you do not want for your kids to be near.

Now here is the real clincher......check out the parents!!! You would not believe the low standards of some very nice appearing, friendly, well educated..blah...blah..blah type of parents that are out there.

Yes, they will allow your 16yo to drink in their home, they will let their kids drive all over the place at all hours, they will not give them a curfew and they will hand them over tons of cash to do whatever with. They also will not block adult content on the TV.

As the parent, it is OK to just say no to certain acquantainces and not make them your kids friends!

Yes, I know not everyone is as bad as I describe above, but it only takes one or 2 like the above and before you know it, perfectly sane parents are starting to think it is OK to let the kids run wild!

Here is another hint....try to establish friendships with firstborns.....they are usually a little more accepting of rules and regulations.:)

So for those of you that think parents should just back off and let the kids learn by their own mistakes....sorry....it is a parents job and responsibility to care for their kids and keep them safe. Caring for you kids means guiding them.....and the only ones that they can go to for love, guidance and advice are their parents.....it is our job to help them through life so that when they mature they can make wise decisions. On their own.

[Rowan555]

[quote name='wentworth']

Also, this is not for you, Rowan, but many people have complained on
this board about children running rampart on the ship with no supervision
and causing problems to other cruisers, i.e. in the elevators, pools etc.
If your child is not with you, how do you know they are not one of the
trouble makers while roaming the ship?[/QUOTE]

My kids are allowed to do certain things without us, but they do not "roam the ship" all day. We check up on them and make sure they are behaving and where they're supposed to be. The first time they're not, their privileges will be revoked. We do not let them go off on their own in order to abdicate parental responsibility, we do it to give them some freedom and independence, which I feel is healthy for them both. Should they behave in a way that makes us regret offering that freedom, they will no longer have it. They have a set of rules to follow, and so far they have had no trouble following them. These rules, among other safety rules, include no running, no playing on or near the elevators (they use the stairs anyway), no yelling, and no pushing in front of people. My kids are the ones who will hold a door open for someone, and who will say "excuse me" when an adult rudely bumps into THEM. They express disgust at the "packs of kids" who act up and make all the other kids look bad, and they stay away from those kids. In fact, my son has specifically requested we never cruise again when school is out, because he doesn't like being on a "ship full of bad kids." He's 9.

[poobears]

I see Carnivals side to this. If you have a child that is capable of signing themselves out (parents give permission) and they are sitting around whining because they just don't feel well (not talking seriously ill here from what I understand of the OP) I see why they would suggest that she sign herself out and go back to the room. I wouldn't keep a whining or possibly sick child in a group full of kids either. She has parents and she has a room she can go to. She needed to find her parents or go to the room so she doesn't get everyone else sick.

They have no reason to believe this would be an issue since the parents gave permission for her to sign out. They had no reason to believe she couldn't navigate the ship alone or would have any problems.

In this particular case I see the blame falling on the parents IF they granted sign out permission to a child that was not capable of acting in a situation like this. Only you know your child and only you know if how they will act if they aren't feeling well or if something doesn't go as planned. If you think they can not handle it, do NOT give permission no matter what other parents are doing.

I have children this age. They will not be granted sign out permission next year, it will be their first cruise and until they prove to me they can navigate the ships and know what to do in the event they are alone to return to the room they will stay there until I get them or they contact me to pick them up (we'll have walkies)

[Rowan555]

[quote name='80sramfan']Pemission is automatically given upon check in for a child of that age. If the parent had not wanted that option they have the oppty to rescind that privelage. Obviously they did not.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but you are incorrect. For the 9-11 year old group, you must check off a box allowing the child to sign in and out on their own. When you check this box, your child's name is printed on the "sign in/out" list and put in a different binder. If you do not check the box, the child's name goes in the parental sign in/out binder.

[recyclelady]

It seems to me that the child was probably crying because of the shock of being told to sign out. This might have implied to her that she was doing something "wrong". She most likely felt she was in trouble for breaking some kind of rule.

I think that if any of us were suddenly told to leave somewhere for no good reason that we would feel like crying.

[80sramfan]

[quote name='Rowan555']Sorry, but you are incorrect. For the 9-11 year old group, you must check off a box allowing the child to sign in and out on their own. When you check this box, your child's name is printed on the "sign in/out" list and put in a different binder. If you do not check the box, the child's name goes in the parental sign in/out binder.[/quote]


Different ships must have slightly different forms. My 9 yr old will be on her 12th cruise next week on the Spirit. I've seen it both ways. Either way you give permission to allow your kid to sign out. If your kid is too immature to handle the responsibility then the parent should not grant that permission.

This is all silly anway. The post is not real and is a joke along the lines of miss torrie. etc.....

[Crusin6]

[quote name='80sramfan']Different ships must have slightly different forms. My 9 yr old will be on her 12th cruise next week on the Spirit. I've seen it both ways. Either way you give permission to allow your kid to sign out. If your kid is too immature to handle the responsibility then the parent should not grant that permission.

This is all silly anway. The post is not real and is a joke along the lines of miss torrie. etc.....[/quote]
A miss torrie post would be more outlandish...sorry. The scenario described here is all too possible as well as probable. If it were a miss torrie, the op would be describing kids bungee jumping off the side of the ship or something.

[tedjazz]

[quote name='Crusin6']What is that suppossed to mean?
[/QUOTE]

One word...Supervise your Kids!!! ;)

[LemurCat]

[quote name='cathyoo']
However, my whole problem here is the child was SICK and they PUT her out. No one checked up on her? I still can't get over that. SICK and put out. I can imagine that is a scary feeling to be sick and ALONE. It did not sound to me like the child wanted to go. For all we know the little girl could be quite independent but most children tend to revert when they don't feel good.

[/quote]

Yeah ... about that ... have you read any of the threads about disinfecting the rooms and wrapping remotes in shower caps lest someone come in contact with germs? You think those parents would like having their little darlings in a closed room with a potentially ebola-carrying kid? :D

[trock]

[quote name='PaulMedik']tink24,

Yes we carry lidocaine and EMLA cream. Over the years I've removed my ET kit, cardiac drugs, needle cric kit, and chest decompression kit from my jump bag.





bjkkbc,

Not just the cut, we also used adhesive for the steri strips. Steri strips are as good as stitches when applied correctly.




dmdiver,

Sure I will. Pick an Easter cruise and you'll likely run in to us eventually. :)

So far I've only patched up three or four fellow cruisers. Hopefully I won't need to patch up any more. One of the fellow cruisers I patched up had fell in the entry way leading from the outside deck in to Panorama on a Conquest class ship (don't recall which one). He was an older gentleman and several people were holding him down insisting that he not move until the medical crew arrived. I approached him, assessed him, assisted him to his feet then to his room. All the while the good samaritans that were holding him down were talking pure trash about my helping him up after I assessed him. I fully understand spinal immobilization and protection of potential injuries. I also assess and clear people from back boards from MVAs and other traumatic causes on a daily basis so while they thought I was doing the wrong thing, I did what was in his best interest and I assessed him properly prior to moving him. After assisting him to his room, I returned to our cabin and brought bandages and antibiotic ointment to his room and cleaned his abrasion out, applied the antibiotic oinment and bandaged him up. He was very appreciative and explained his worst injury was the embarassment of having everyone gathered around him not letting him up. He knew they meant well and they did the right thing for most people. In his case, keeping him immobile until back boarded then transported via stretcher to the infirmary and X ray would have been a painful experience.

Wow, sorry to get long winded on the reply......ginger and an NSAID are all that most people will ever need on a cruise.[/quote]


More Importantly.. I think you should start your own business selling us cruisers First Aid Kits for at Seas!!:)

[poobears]

[quote name='recyclelady']It seems to me that the child was probably crying because of the shock of being told to sign out. This might have implied to her that she was doing something "wrong". She most likely felt she was in trouble for breaking some kind of rule.

I think that if any of us were suddenly told to leave somewhere for no good reason that we would feel like crying.[/quote]


We have no idea what happened, you are just assuming she was told to leave. More then likely what happened was they told her if you aren't feeling well why don't you go back to your cabin and rest, we'll tell your parents where you are or something similar. She didn't have the confidence to refuse or speak up and tell them she didn't know where she was going so she signed out and left. Then sat and cried because she had no idea how to get back to the room.

She had the option of sitting in one of the nearby chairs where her parents would walk by too if she didn't know where to go. It's pretty obvious she wasn't ready to handle the responsibility of being on her own in a less then perfect situation.

I seriously doubt they forced her to sign out and demanded she leave after she told them she couldn't find her way back to the room. I know my DD and if they suggested it, she would have just signed out and left even if she had no idea where to go instead of speaking up. That is why signing out will not be an option for her.

[wentworth]

[quote name='Rowan555']My kids are allowed to do certain things without us, but they do not "roam the ship" all day. We check up on them and make sure they are behaving and where they're supposed to be. The first time they're not, their privileges will be revoked. We do not let them go off on their own in order to abdicate parental responsibility, we do it to give them some freedom and independence, which I feel is healthy for them both. Should they behave in a way that makes us regret offering that freedom, they will no longer have it. They have a set of rules to follow, and so far they have had no trouble following them. These rules, among other safety rules, include no running, no playing on or near the elevators (they use the stairs anyway), no yelling, and no pushing in front of people. My kids are the ones who will hold a door open for someone, and who will say "excuse me" when an adult rudely bumps into THEM. They express disgust at the "packs of kids" who act up and make all the other kids look bad, and they stay away from those kids. In fact, my son has specifically requested we never cruise again when school is out, because he doesn't like being on a "ship full of bad kids." He's 9.[/quote]

As I stated, this part of my post was not directed to. I just wanted to
make a point that many people have complained about unruly children
with no parental supervision running amok and causing trouble on the ship.
But if their child is out by him/herself how do they know what the child
is going?

AJ, letting your child ride their bike outside of your home in your neighborhood is not the same as letting the child go off by him/herself
on board a ship carrying 2000-3000 passengers. You may feel comfortable doing this, but I would'nt.

[lindseesmom]

You also cannot live your life in fear wondering "what could have been" no matter what age you are. You must teach your children from young what is right and what is wrong. You must have a game plan where & when to meet your child and if they are not there, give them time to get the point. Try not to panic. I do think that most kids and teenagers can & do find their way on these ships better than the adults and parents.
The ships are big but so is the mall and anywhere your child goes. The same common sense and rules apply whenever the child leaves the house without the parent.
If your child is old enough to write and signs him/herself out of CC, you as the adult should know where that child plans to be! And have a plan in mind.

[3redheads]

My son is 11. I wouldn't let him roam around our neighborhood alone and I would feel very uncomfortable letting him leave the kids area without someone with him.

We have an older daughter and allowed her to leave on her own when she was 13.

To the OP, I'm so glad everything turned out ok. What a scary experience!

[tammi0916]

[quote name='Crusin6']A miss torrie post would be more outlandish...sorry. The scenario described here is all too possible as well as probable. If it were a miss torrie, the op would be describing kids bungee jumping off the side of the ship or something.[/quote]


What is miss torrie?:confused: