Civitavecchia/Rome and Livorno/Florence DIY Nerves

We're leaving on the NCL Epic in a little over two weeks and I am very excited. I've read a ton on these boards and appreciate all of the information. I'm also getting a little nervous about some of my plans and would appreciate any/all feedback. As background, I studied abroad in Siena and speak limited (read: bad) Italian. The rest of the group has not been to Italy previously.

I know my plans for the stops in Civitavecchia/Rome and Livorno/Florence are ambitious, but I'm hoping that they're not impossible. I was hoping that anyone with any experience could chime in. Here are my current plans:

Rome:

1. Dock at 6 am - We will leave the ship ASAP (have priority disembark) and, assuming we're in Dock 12B as the Epic has been listed for the June dates, walk to the train station or take the shuttle bus then walk

2. Train to Ostiense (either 7:02-8:07 or 7:44-8:36)

3. Metro to Colosseo and catch 9:30 am tour of Colosseum & Forum

4. Self-guided tour of Rome, ending either at Spanish Steps or St. Peter's

5. Train back to Civitavacchia - Either 4:57-5:39 from Termini or 4:32-5:13 from St. Peter's

6. Walk back to ship

7. All aboard at 6:30

Florence:

1. Dock at 7 am - Leave ship ASAP, Get a taxi (**Any recommendations on this step? Any phone numbers or suggestions to convince them to take us to the train station?**)

2. Train to Florence (either 7:30-9:07, 7:43-9:22, or 8:12-9:32)

3. Catch 9:30am private tour of Accademia/Duomo

4. Lunch & self-guided tour of Florence

5. Train back to Livorno (3:28-4:48 or 4:28-5:48)

6. Preferably a taxi back to ship, but we could do the bus route

7. All aboard at 6:30

Sorry for such a long post! I really would appreciate any input. Other than my broken foot (oops), we're all in good shape and are very fast walkers even with my very attractive walking cast. I'm probably overthinking the timing but would rather know it's unrealistic now than miss the ship in two weeks.

I would not walk back to the ship at Civitavecchia. The port is huge, and it is easy to get lost. The first time we were there, my wife and I thought we had plenty of time to walk back (we arrived at the train station with more than an hour of time left) so we perused the flea market/farmers market. With about 45 minutes to go, I decided it was time to get back to the ship. We made it back with (no joke) less than 5 minutes left, as NCL staff were packing up. An NCL staffer told us there were over 50 passengers who had not boarded at the time, and the names on the PA roll call afterwards was very long.

One thing to note: When we were there, taxis and shuttles stopped running pretty early. We begged a shuttle driver to take us to our ship, offering 20 euros... he took a deep breath on his cigarette, and told us "No" - he was on break.

I'm seeing departures to Rome Termini at these hours, not Ostiense. Doesn't much matter it appears, since both seem to connect by Metro with Colosseo.

Your self-guided tour isn't very specific about how you get back to the train station. Presumably this would be from Rome Termini (not Ostiense?)

(I'm studying Trenitalia right now because we embark/disembark at Civitavecchia in September.)

 

Florence:

1. Dock at 7 am - Leave ship ASAP, Get a taxi (**Any recommendations on this step? Any phone numbers or suggestions to convince them to take us to the train station?**)

The only two tips I can give for the taxis in Florence:

1) Be one of the VERY first off the ship. Taxis are more likely to take you if they can be back in time to pick up another (potentially all-day) fare, which is what they really want.

2) Usually there is a dispatcher of sorts and I've read here that some folks have success getting them involved, as a taxi is supposed to pick up a fare...

Are you sure you're up for so much walking, even with a walking cast? It's a lot, and it's going to be very hot...

I'm seeing departures to Rome Termini at these hours, not Ostiense. Doesn't much matter it appears, since both seem to connect by Metro with Colosseo.

 

Your self-guided tour isn't very specific about how you get back to the train station. Presumably this would be from Rome Termini (not Ostiense?)

 

(I'm studying Trenitalia right now because we embark/disembark at Civitavecchia in September.)

Regional trains from Civitavecchia to Rome generally stop at several Rome train stations: Ostiense (best for transferring to metro in order to reach the Colosseum), St. Peter's (obviously the best choice for the Vatican), and Termini, which isn't a great choice unless you're planning to start your day at the Borghese Gallery or the Spanish Steps (or at one of my favorite museums: the Palazzo Massimo al Terme).

I'm seeing departures to Rome Termini at these hours, not Ostiense. Doesn't much matter it appears, since both seem to connect by Metro with Colosseo.

 

Your self-guided tour isn't very specific about how you get back to the train station. Presumably this would be from Rome Termini (not Ostiense?)

 

(I'm studying Trenitalia right now because we embark/disembark at Civitavecchia in September.)

We assume you are aware, but if not, that all the Regional trains running from Civitavecchia to Rome end at Termini. But before they get to Termini they stop at several other Rome train stations including S. Pietro, Ostiense, Trastevere, etc. Getting on or off at one of those other station can save you as much as 20 minutes (train time) and might be more convenient to your goal.

We have a love/hate with Termini. The track used for the Civitavecchia train is at the furthest location within the station...which is more then 1/3 of a mile from the station entrance (and all the closer entrances/exits are now sealed for security reasons). So for many folks, Termini might be one of the worst choices.

Hank

Based on your current schedule you won't be in a huge rush to get to the colosseum after getting off the train, so I suggest foregoing the metro in favor of the tram, where you get some views along the way.

More information here: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2366665

Thanks all! I do appreciate the tips and would love to hear about anyone else's experiences.

Your self-guided tour isn't very specific about how you get back to the train station. Presumably this would be from Rome Termini (not Ostiense?)

For the self-guided tour, that is literally just me leading the fam around with a print-out copy of a google map and some information from my Italian history/culture classes in college. We don't necessarily have a set path, but in Rome, we will end at either the Spanish Steps or across from St. Peter's depending on time. We unfortunately don't have time for the Vatican, but would love to at least see the square (circle?). We would take the Metro to Termini or walk to the St. Peter's stop. In Florence, our last stop will be the Ponte Vecchio before walking back to Santa Maria Novella.

The only two tips I can give for the taxis in Florence:

 

1) Be one of the VERY first off the ship. Taxis are more likely to take you if they can be back in time to pick up another (potentially all-day) fare, which is what they really want.

 

2) Usually there is a dispatcher of sorts and I've read here that some folks have success getting them involved, as a taxi is supposed to pick up a fare...

 

 

Are you sure you're up for so much walking, even with a walking cast? It's a lot, and it's going to be very hot...

Thanks! My goal is now for us to be the very first people off the ship :) It is a ton of walking, which I know isn't great for my stress fracture, but I live in Chicago and still average 5000-7500 steps/day (love that Fitbit!) while I've been on crutches. I broke it while running a half in training for a marathon so, other than the one pesky bone, walking long distances isn't a problem for me and I am by far the least athletic of the group. We're planning to bring lots of water to help with the heat. Oh, and we will be taking frequent gelato stops.

We are planning to take it easy in Cannes and Marseilles as well, which will hopefully help. Those will be a beach day and a snorkeling trip respectively. Rome and Florence just have so much to offer that's it's hard to restrain myself :rolleyes:

Based on your current schedule you won't be in a huge rush to get to the colosseum after getting off the train, so I suggest foregoing the metro in favor of the tram, where you get some views along the way.

If we have time, that sounds great! We'll have to play it by ear until that morning but the tram sounds very nice.

We just did something pretty similar for Rome. As long as you keep an eye on the clock, it sounds like a reasonable plan. I can't speak to Florence as we just went to Pisa when we were docked in Livorno.

Just curious about your walking cast - do you have a thing for the other foot to even out the height difference? They make a rubber(?) thing that attaches to the bottom of your other shoe so that your hips aren't out of whack. I was recently traveling with a business colleague who had a stress fx in his foot and having that thing to even out his gait made a HUGE difference. He was not slowed down much at all when wearing it, but without it his knee would start to bother him after a day of standing around.

ETA: My colleague had a walking cast on one foot and the even-up thing on the other.

 

Just curious about your walking cast - do you have a thing for the other foot to even out the height difference? They make a rubber(?) thing that attaches to the bottom of your other shoe so that your hips aren't out of whack. I was recently traveling with a business colleague who had a stress fx in his foot and having that thing to even out his gait made a HUGE difference. He was not slowed down much at all when wearing it, but without it his knee would start to bother him after a day of standing around.

 

ETA: My colleague had a walking cast on one foot and the even-up thing on the other.

I don't have anything special like that, but once I'm off crutches, I do plan to wear a slight heel on the other foot (the "perks" of being a woman). The walking cast has definitely started to throw off my hip alignment. I've been doing yoga and pilates to try to counteract it.

Based on my research your proposed train times to get back to the ship might be a bit tight. If you miss a train, or if it's running late, you're not giving yourself much time to either catch the next train, or allow for said lateness.

We assume you are aware, but if not, that all the Regional trains running from Civitavecchia to Rome end at Termini. But before they get to Termini they stop at several other Rome train stations including S. Pietro, Ostiense, Trastevere, etc. Getting on or off at one of those other station can save you as much as 20 minutes (train time) and might be more convenient to your goal.

 

We have a love/hate with Termini. The track used for the Civitavecchia train is at the furthest location within the station...which is more then 1/3 of a mile from the station entrance (and all the closer entrances/exits are now sealed for security reasons). So for many folks, Termini might be one of the worst choices.

 

Hank

Right Hank, I should have realized that. So if we take a train to Civitavecchia, it might be worth taking a cab or metro down to Ostiense first? But I presume then you'd risk not finding a seat on the train. But coming into town, getting off at Ostiense could save time, I see. On the way back (we're round-trip Rome) we'll be heading for Termini for sure since we're ongoing to Florence.

Right Hank, I should have realized that. So if we take a train to Civitavecchia, it might be worth taking a cab or metro down to Ostiense first? But I presume then you'd risk not finding a seat on the train. But coming into town, getting off at Ostiense could save time, I see. On the way back (we're round-trip Rome) we'll be heading for Termini for sure since we're ongoing to Florence.

You are right and I should have mentioned the seat issue. When taking a prime time return train to Civitavecchia...it is possible that all the seats will be taken at Termini...and those getting on at the other station will have to stand (although seats usually open up as passengers get off at intervening stations).

We have lately made a major point about the location of the Track (for Civitavecchia trains) in Termini...since many cruisers have some mobility issues. It is a long way...from the main entrance to the track (we always build in about 15 min of walking time within Termini). Other stations are somewhat smaller and the track not as distant. We used to know about a "secret" entrance close to the track at Termini...but that entrance is now locked for security reasons.

The good news for you is that track, at Termini, for the trains to Florence are usually (it can vary) not too far from the entrance.

Hank

...

We have lately made a major point about the location of the Track (for Civitavecchia trains) in Termini...since many cruisers have some mobility issues. It is a long way...from the main entrance to the track (we always build in about 15 min of walking time within Termini). Other stations are somewhat smaller and the track not as distant. We used to know about a "secret" entrance close to the track at Termini...but that entrance is now locked for security reasons.

 

The good news for you is that track, at Termini, for the trains to Florence are usually (it can vary) not too far from the entrance.

 

Hank

Thanks Hank, will bear that in mind. I'm still looking for a shared drive to the port, but our roll-call is moribund at this point, no takers. Just seems to make sense to take the train, but the mobility thing is a (smallish) issue for us. Don't mind walking, but the stairs will be the killers. We do travel light, but will have rollaboards with us. Do they have porters for hire in the station?

Don't mind walking, but the stairs will be the killers. We do travel light, but will have rollaboards with us. Do they have porters for hire in the station?

It costs more money but when you are traveling with luggage it may be worth it to pay for an IC or a Frecce train, which use the main trackhead. These trains also have reserved seating, unlike the regional trains.

Yes, at Termini (where there are no stairs) but not at Civitavecchia, where there are stairs.

 

It costs more money but when you are traveling with luggage it may be worth it to pay for an IC or a Frecce train, which use the main trackhead. These trains also have reserved seating, unlike the regional trains.

We found it interesting that when using the trains in April, both locals trains we used (both coming and going to Rome) did use the first track (the one where you do not have to use stairs.

We also will go on record as not totally agreeing with "Euro" which is a very rare occurrence. Normally, we do not recommend using the fast inter-city trains when going from Civitavecchia to Termini (less of an issue going from Rome to Civitavecchia). The problem is those fast trains (which really are not that much faster then the locals) usually come from a long distance before they arrive at Civitavecchia...and have a tendency to be late....sometimes very late. We have seen more then one cruiser, who pre-purchased inter-city train tickets (you need reservations) cooling their heels at the Civitavecchia station ans passing-up several regional trains while they wait for their "fast train" which is running very late.

Hank

current plans:

 

Rome:

 

4. Self-guided tour of Rome, ending either at Spanish Steps or St. Peter's

Your plan is ambitious but do-able if you are physically up to it. I have to say I don't get the attraction of the Spanish Steps. There are steps crowded with people surrounded by ridiculously expensive stores. St. Peters is filled with amazing artwork and centuries of history. The down side of St. Peters is that you will need to go through security to get in and that line can get very, very long.

How many are in your family? Even with just four of you, it might be worth it to contact Rome in Limo or Rome Cabs and get a price for the day. It will certainly be more than the train but you will see so much more in one day than you can possibly do on your own. There are two big advantages: a driver will be waiting for you as soon as you get off the ship so you can be in Rome before the crowds; when you get to one of your stops, your driver will drop you and set a pick-up point somewhere else so once you've done your walking, you can just hop back in the car.

I think my time has value, too. After spending so much money to get to Civitavecchia on the ship, I want to get as much as I can from the day.

Florence is another matter. Everything you want to see is within a fairly compact area and the train station is not terribly far from it. Rome is just so spread out and so filled with tourists you will spend a huge amount of time just getting between places.

Thanks again for the tips and the validation that I'm not completely crazy with this plan!

I agree that the Spanish Steps themselves aren't that spectacular but the reason we might end out tour there is because 1) they're very close to a Metro and within walking distance from the Trevi (which path would take us by a recommended gelato shop) and 2) I'm a big Keats fan and would like to point out his apt to my family. Also, I think we sadly will be skipping the interior of St. Peter's regardless due to time/crowds. I asked the group if they would rather see historic Rome or the Vatican and they voted historic Rome. The Vatican/St. Peter's will have to be another trip for them.

There will be 5 of us and I did consider a day tour. My main reason for not arranging a tour is that I think a large part of the charm of Italy is wandering through the streets and seeing the various architecture, fountains, etc. I think that having a driver or tour guide can really detract from that aspect. I agree with you that time is incredibly valuable (I'm a lawyer who bills in 6 minute increments) but I don't think we gain that much time by having a driver as opposed to the trains and walking. Also, I am somewhat worried about burning the two teens out on historical/religious sights with Pompeii, Rome and Florence packed together... They're both smart kids but these are an intense few days and some walking/down time might help. I also view this trip as a "sampler" with the thought that everyone will be back eventually so if we don't see everything in that 9ish hours, it's fine.

One of the concerns noted above is not leaving time for a later train. How often do these trains run significantly late from Rome/Florence? I ran into that problem a lot with buses in Italy but seem to remember the trains being within the 5-10 minute range. I'm less concerned about Rome as it would be very easy to get to Florence the next day but Florence-Cannes might be trickier. Thanks all!

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We also will go on record as not totally agreeing with "Euro" which is a very rare occurrence. Normally, we do not recommend using the fast inter-city trains when going from Civitavecchia to Termini (less of an issue going from Rome to Civitavecchia). The problem is those fast trains (which really are not that much faster then the locals) usually come from a long distance before they arrive at Civitavecchia...and have a tendency to be late....sometimes very late. We have seen more then one cruiser, who pre-purchased inter-city train tickets (you need reservations) cooling their heels at the Civitavecchia station ans passing-up several regional trains while they wait for their "fast train" which is running very late.

Edited to add: I just checked for the heck of it and there are only two IC trains per day between 9 AM and after 6 PM so for most it's not even an issue.

Think your plan is doable but always have a planB On June 4 we were on the 8:33 to Rome from Civi when some type of breakdown occurred on the track in front of us. Sat for an hour before they elected to route us in on an alternate track. Skipped San Pietro, ok for us a we were headed to Ostiense but added even more backtracking for those on way to Vatican. Things happen out of your control. I might not push to the last return train

Last time I was in Rome it was not a matter of a pleasant wander around absorbing the local sights. It was a matter of somehow getting through the mobs of large group tours, of standing in long queues to collect tickets bought online, of walking up endless stairs in places where the elevators were broken, of aggravating my bad knee with the cobblestones.

I would myself arrange a tour and not have to worry about the connections, the possibility of strikes and so on.

But I guess my adventurous days are over and I prefer to relax and enjoy myself.

Last time I was in Rome it was not a matter of a pleasant wander around absorbing the local sights. It was a matter of somehow getting through the mobs of large group tours, of standing in long queues to collect tickets bought online, of walking up endless stairs in places where the elevators were broken, of aggravating my bad knee with the cobblestones.

I would myself arrange a tour and not have to worry about the connections, the possibility of strikes and so on.

But I guess my adventurous days are over and I prefer to relax and enjoy myself.

For those who have never been to Rome it's hard to avoid the crowds because the natural tendency is to want to see the iconic places you've heard about all of your life.

For return visitors, however, it's quite easy to avoid the crowds by seeking out sites that are less well known. There are several (dozens, actually) excellent museums that the vast majority of visitors never get to (or have even heard of). There are historical sites, gardens, etc. well off the beaten track yet right in the center of things.

Think your plan is doable but always have a planB On June 4 we were on the 8:33 to Rome from Civi when some type of breakdown occurred on the track in front of us. Sat for an hour before they elected to route us in on an alternate track. Skipped San Pietro, ok for us a we were headed to Ostiense but added even more backtracking for those on way to Vatican. Things happen out of your control. I might not push to the last return train

We were also there on 6/4 and experienced this (we were on the 8:42 train). Our day got off to a much later start than I intended but we still did what I had wanted to do.

We got off at Ostiense and took the metro to the Colosseum. We did go inside, but not on a tour. From there, we just started walking toward Trevi fountain stopping for lunch along the way. We tossed our coins in the fountain (LOTS of people here) and then went to see the Pantheon. From there, we walked through Piazza Navonna (sp?) and on to St. Peter's. We did go inside the basilica. After that, we walked to the San Pietro train station and caught the very crowded train back. I stood the whole way back.

I still think your plan is doable as long as you are open to improvising if need be. I think we got a pretty good look at some highlights and now know we want to go back to see more!

Other than avoiding the possibility, quite low and predictable, of a strike, I'm not sure how a tour makes a difference with the problems you've noted. Even the best tour operator can't reduce the crowds, shorten the lines or fix the elevators, unfortunately.

 

For those who have never been to Rome it's hard to avoid the crowds because the natural tendency is to want to see the iconic places you've heard about all of your life.

 

For return visitors, however, it's quite easy to avoid the crowds by seeking out sites that are less well known. There are several (dozens, actually) excellent museums that the vast majority of visitors never get to (or have even heard of). There are historical sites, gardens, etc. well off the beaten track yet right in the center of things.

This is very true. I just returned from Rome (4 days at the start of my trip and 2 days at the end). This time of year it is very crowded, yet I imagine it's more crowded still by July and August....

While I noted a lot of people collected in the usual spots -- around the Colosseum/Forum, at Piazza Navona, at Trevi, at the Pantheon -- I had planned to visit some sites not on the usual "tourist radar" and had really rewarding experiences. I will post about these separately, but the point is a good one that there are any number of wonderful sites and museums in Rome that would be on a "Top 5" list in any other city yet are frequently ignored. For example: the Capitoline Museum, the Ara Pacis, the Palazzo Altemps branch of the National Museums (conveniently located just behind Piazza Navona, yet most people have never heard of it....!) And more.

Even utilizing the bus and metro was easy enough and I did not actually feel like a sardine. (Although I do advise avoiding the perpetually crowded bus #64 if you can.... I watched several of them roll by and they are always packed.)

Even for the busy sites, it did not seem unmanageable if you planned ahead for tickets and so forth.

the Palazzo Altemps branch of the National Museums (conveniently located just behind Piazza Navona, yet most people have never heard of it....!)