hftmrock

4 hours ago, beerman2 said:

The optimists need to look again:

Orlando requiring everyone to wear masks in public. 

Tampa is the same, requiring masks be worn indoors.

Key West is requiring masks until June 2021.

 

 

 

 

and if the optimists blame 'testing' on the reason Florida is the new epicenter, think again

basically, they have done the SAME amount of tests since May 16th (over a month)

BUT.... you can see the spike in cases for the last month... If they are doing about the same amount of testing.. More cases means Florida is in trouble.

I think Florida should should start to listen to the experts and close things back down until they meet the guidelines of the government and the CDC

I dont think any cruises will happen from florida if this doesnt get better soon

Im glad they are starting to enforce wearing masks

18 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

Why should we judge others who choose to live and participate in the economy?  No, those people who aren't wearing masks are not delaying your cruise. 

yes they are.. they are the ones who can spread it and the more it spreads the less likely cruises start.

18 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

 

The way the average American wears a mask isn't doing anything to prevent COVID-19.  Ask doctors who work in hospitals how they use/wear masks. 

totally incorrect and proven time and time again that it stops the person wearing it from spreading the virus droplets as much as someone who doesnt. No competent doctor would say its doing nothing. none

18 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

  But, we definitely paid a heavy price for it with our nursing home residents.  We shut down our economy AND we also didn't protect the nursing homes.  The sad part is, we failed in our response to both areas.  

agreed

18 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

 

Once again, COVID-19 is not the zombie apocalypse.  It is a very strong and novel Coronavirus of which there are many others in circulation (you've probably had some before).  It is not going away (it is far too contagious).  Treatments will help (good news, we have found some that are working and more to come!) and hopefully vaccines will help too (bad news, not everyone will take them so it will STILL be around).  China and other countries who are trying to completely eliminate the virus will have a losing battle.  As we have seen in China, it simply isn't possible.  Even with a 100 day lock-down, the virus continues to pop up time and time again.  

find me another virus in history that had 120,000 - 200,000 deaths in less than a year

Look at other countries curves compared to ours. Other countries ARE managing this virus properly. it wont go away but they are preventing deaths.

18 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

 

1 hour ago, Fredric22 said:

There are no major setbacks.  The panicking and fear mongering has to stop.  Death toll continues to slow.  The virus is highly contagious and thankfully it is usually mild.  Everyone just needs to take a deep breath.  The sky is NOT falling. 

you do realize that in the US, there is 120K dead and the estimates from the experts are about 200K by October. Thats 80,000 more dead and I think thats if people keep masks and social distancing so if that doesnt happen, it will be higher...

200,000 dead in 7 months... glad you think this is no big deal... I would really be afraid what you would find bad

its more deaths that ANY  USA military war death toll except

American Civil War

World War 2

the American civil war had over 755,000 deaths but that averaged 520 per day. how many died from Covid yesterday?

Im glad you think its all sunshine and rainbows

1 minute ago, seaman11 said:

How is oct looking? 😄

Seaman11 - I really want to applaud you for a moment. You have been the main optimist on this forum and tried to keep a positive attitude for cruising and when you started to talk about others as doom and gloom, you fought back. Now it turns out you see more of the light of what people were saying and for the most part agree with the doom and gloom folk.

You are still getting heat for this and yet you are keeping your head up and taking it in stride. Not fighting back or trying to persuade anyone. This is all a learning process for all of us and no one had a crystal ball.

and now it looms you 'might' actually have covid...

Keep your head up and stay as positive as you can. You are an example of someone gracefully learning from your mistakes. Its a breath of fresh air because we wont always agree but you have taken a great attitude with this.

While I didnt agree with your predictions and your thought process on it, I support your right to come to any conclusions you want to and express them. seems you are looking at the future of cruising with less rose colored glasses at the moment.

I hope cruising starts soon and safely

34 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

These covid cases need to come down.  Many carribean countries gave the ok whenever cruises are ready (cdc clearance) they are welcoming ships.  The problem is the two best state's  with the best shot at starting , their covid cases have risen .  

be careful... seaman11 might tell you that you are doom and gloom... LOL

its all good my friend. I do believe they will start this year... 'possibly' in September but we are slowly getting toward more reasonable timeframes when they will start

I guess the CDC cancelling the 100 day order is not gonna happen , huh??

Keep the faith my friend and stay optimistic. we do need more optimistic folk here. It doesnt hurt to be optimistic IF you keep the facts in mind.

Fingers crossed for September!

1 minute ago, boatseller said:

Completely irrelevant to this discussion.  They're stuck because of travel restrictions often imposed by their home countries and panic based guidance issues by the CDC.  100% Governments' fault.

you have an excuse for everything but it is relevant. The same reason they cant disembark is the same reason passengers wont be able to if there are covid cases without very very strict rules and guidelines and emergency planning.

But debating with you is futile because you see it a certain way. the easy way is to wait and see what happens. will they all just disembark with the normal procedures without regard to covid cases or will there be new strict rules and procedures and contigency plans for ships with covid passengers

have a nice day

1 hour ago, boatseller said:

Nope.  20 cases from a cruise will be insignificant in the general population.  Florida will have 105,223 cases instead of 105,243.  Big deal.  No one will notice.

 

Enough people are either infected or recovered already to make the cruise ship debate meaningless.  People are getting infected all over the place.  No reason to single out cruise ships.

if it was soooooo easy as you claim

why is this?

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article243398711.html

1 hour ago, boatseller said:

Nope.  20 cases from a cruise will be insignificant in the general population.  Florida will have 105,223 cases instead of 105,243.  Big deal.  No one will notice.

 

Enough people are either infected or recovered already to make the cruise ship debate meaningless.  People are getting infected all over the place.  No reason to single out cruise ships.

They will NEVER let a ship dock with 20 cases... first of all if there are 20 documented cases, there are 50 undocumented cases.

second, if everyone gets off the ship and undocumented , asymptomatic folk get off the ship, each one becomes a hotspot to give it to 10 of their friends and family. so if there are 20 documented, and 30 undocumented, the 30 asymptomatic each gives it to 10 more so thats 300 and they give it to their friends and family.

I can tell you for certain, that is not going to happen without VERY VERY VERY documented, slow, careful planning that will need to go through CDC approval before any ship will sail.

it wont be business as usual for disembarkation if there are covid cases on board

I'll also say if there is a covid case on board and there are still places to go. NOT 1 port will allow the ship to dock and let out passengers.

11 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Florida's situation was no where near New York from the beginning.

TRUTH

and now we are MUCH better.... interesting.... lololol

3 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

i was trying to find any, but it seems it is far from where i live.  (fairfax, VA)  maybe they pop up randomly. 

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/health/novel-coronavirus/coronavirus-covid-19-testing

HealthWorks provides COVID-19 testing free for uninsured patients who meet eligibility for the sliding scale fee and do not already have another primary doctor. Patients should call 703-443-2000 to get a telehealth evaluation by a medical provider prior to scheduling a test.

Neighborhood Health provides COVID-19 testing free for uninsured patients who meet eligibility for the sliding scale fee. Patients should call 703-535-5568 to get a telehealth evaluation by a medical provider prior to scheduling a test.

10 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

No. Not trolling.  I do have the symptoms iv described but could be a summer cold or a bug.  Ill find out. 

remember, if you do have it.. you need to do a thorough contact tracing for the last 2 weeks. who have you been in contact with. where have you gone. The ONLY way we beat this is if we stay on contact tracing when we can

1 minute ago, boatseller said:

You mean the gross mismanagement in places like New York City & State.

 

There are a lot of exacerbating factors in the US that South Korea did not have to deal with.

interesting to call NY mismanagement when they are the ONLY ones to follow the GOVERNMENT and CDC guidelines and the ONLY one to show significant downward progress... not like Florida

Ill take that mismanagement to save lives.. Ill take that every single day.

1 minute ago, boatseller said:

There will be no significant changes to disembarkation except maybe having symptomatic persons go last.  Any hint of complications and people will just refuse to be tested.  But it still won't matter, cruise ship cases will not be significant compared to the general population.

I guess we will find out. no sense going back and forth with this without evidence. But we will put a placeholder here to see if there is a specific designation on what to so in writing or the first cruise with a covid passenger ...

stay tuned

2 minutes ago, ChC said:

 

I am so tired to hear people make this argument. Flu death is estimated, it is based on a model that designed by human who works in a building without actually seen a single death body, which could be very wrong. Covid19 death however is rigorously documented. Flu death should never be mentioned, because there is no way to document or verify the estimate. Flu death number is an educated guess, it is not science. Please stop quoting this number.

i only quote the number because ill informed people say that Covid is 'just like the flu' and it is hardly like it

its the only number we have as reference but the point is always that the flu and covid 19 are apples and celery

1 minute ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Oh...NO!  Don't send them here!

I don't want to spend another 3 months watching tv.

no... you dont understand

ONLY NYers will be allowed to cruise. no other states since they reopened before any guidelines were met.

so its a NY cruise with NY passengers only.

2 minutes ago, boatseller said:

1. The island nations are opening.

2. No, but like I said, the number of cases attributed to cruise ships will be practically irrelevant.

3. The islands are opening with this knowledge, it's their call.  The ship will return to it's US port and disembark normally because any number of cases will be insignificant within the general population.

Im going to go right to number 3

there is already major discussions on how ships will disembark if/when there are cases on board. It will NOT be as easy as you think.

this is a CDC guideline that has to be identified and documented before the CDC will allow it

5 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Not really, most of those states had far lower numbers than the more draconian measures taken in other states.  Yes, there has been an increase in cases.  In my state, Georgia, the new cases are even a spike.  In my community, the local paper actually prints the number of cases that require hospitalization, which are usually less than 10% of the new cases.

 

I am not saying that the disease is not a problem.  It is a serious problem for nursing home residents, or Seniors with underlying conditions.   

 

Senior do make up a significant percentage of those going on cruises, especially the longer cruises that we pick.

 

We have a cruise from Rome to Tampa in October 2021 and going on a safari in East Africa in July 2021.   No real reason to go earlier, even if we could, we don't do the Caribbean any more, prefer TA cruises after a European land trip.

are definitively saying that opening early before the CDC and government recommendations didnt cause more deaths? Even 1 more death is too much when not following guidelines. what if that one more case was your father? or someone close to you? Would you feel just as relaxed to allow states to open before guidelines were met?

5 minutes ago, boatseller said:

1. They're opening, and the private islands will be there.

2. Symptomatic persons will be isolated in their stateroom, that's it.  Same with noro.

3. Irrelevant.  The theme parks and other business will not be closing again.

1. - the CDC is not in control of any bad decisions of companies

2. - you believe it will be contained at 1 person? so this one person went to the show the night before.. Houston.. you have a problem

3. - NO state or country currently will allow you to dock at their pier if you have 1 more more active cases.

45 minutes ago, CruisingSince1982 said:

 

but it's not bad - that's my point. More people are hospitalized with the flu than they are with Covid. All of these people are walking around with it and testing positive, and yet they are fine. there are 21.48 million people living in Florida since 2019. These numbers are not matching the level of hysteria. Again, people in the high risk category definitely should not be sailing! 

ill say all states that opened before the recommended CDC and government guidelines were met should not sail...

So ... (and I could be wrong about this)... NY is the only place to sail in the USA

9 minutes ago, boatseller said:

The theme parks are open, restaurants are open, beaches are open, malls are open.  There is no case to be made to prevent cruising from opening.

I guess the CDC sees things differently than you

here is an interesting fact

24,000 - 62,000 deaths from flu, (this is the last flu season in the USA)

4 minutes ago, CruisingSince1982 said:

 

but it's not bad - that's my point. More people are hospitalized with the flu than they are with Covid. All of these people are walking around with it and testing positive, and yet they are fine. there are 21.48 million people living in Florida since 2019. These numbers are not matching the level of hysteria. Again, people in the high risk category definitely should not be sailing! 

you have a chart that backs up that 1000 people a week for months get hospitalized with the flu?

why is the numbers in NY going down when florida is going up or staying steady?

1 minute ago, CruisingSince1982 said:

 

I'm not joking at all. This virus is nowhere near what they said it would be. Again, hospitals here are empty. Empty. Prior to re-starting "elective" surgeries, medical personnel were laid off because they have absolutely nothing to do. The "soaring" numbers you are referring to in Florida is solely due to the testing in the agricultural communities located within Collier, Martin, and Palm Beach Counties. The percentage of severely ill people is extremely low. Anyone with an underlying condition should not be take cruises, traveling, or going out.  

if you are correct and they are finally doing more testing and finally seeing that its worse than the numbers before testing was showing.... this means ITS WORSE than we thought with the small testing that was done and more people HAVE the virus RIGHT NOW which means MORE vigilance...  More testing means you see how bad it really is.

and I hope you are not saying that the stats that Florida is putting out is wrong. between 150 - 200 NEW Hospitalizations are happening in Florida due to COVID every single day. There was about 1000 new hospitalizations in the last 7 days in Florida. thats about 4000 hospitalizations in Florida in a month... and the number is NOT going down

3 minutes ago, CruisingSince1982 said:

 

Hospitalizations have not increased. They number of positive cases can triple - the virus is losing steam.

 

its DEFINITIVELY not losing steam at all otherwise hospitalizations would be going DOWN. for 3 months it appears to be very very steady.. this is a problem

what people who say more testing is whats causing the spike.. there is 'some' validity in that however you are not looking at the bigger picture

If there are CURRENT , NEW positive cases because there is more testing, then there is STILL a pandemic and it will continue to get worse unless social distancing is done. These are not people who HAD the virus.. these are NEW cases of people who HAVE the virus and if the numbers keep increasing because FINALLY the states are doing more testing , we now have a clear picture of how bad it is and measures need to be taken.

people who say 'This is all because of more testing so we can just forget about it and live our lives' are not thinking about this correctly and if the people of the state have the same mentality... it will be a LONG time before we ever cruise again because the numbers WILL NOT go down...

this is not doom and gloom.. these are stats and facts.

New York is doing more and more testing just like everyone else and guess what... The numbers are going DOWN... not up. because NY followed the guidelines and did not open until they met the proper government and CDC guidelines