bcaha Posted November 18, 2017 #126 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Another vote for Havana Tours with Blexie... we toured with his associate Roly a few weeks ago and had an incredible day. You can find Blexie on facebook as Blexie-Havana Tours or email him at blexie100588@gmail.com. Give him a few days to respond. He's trying to keep pace with the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollytown Posted November 19, 2017 #127 Share Posted November 19, 2017 so I'm curious.... let's say someone goes to cuba and they don't fulfill their requirement that they chose. and lets say 2 years down the road a government official contacts them to provide proof of what they were doing and they can't account for some time spent there... what happens? do they get arrested? get fined? has this happened to any one even before the new rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted November 19, 2017 #128 Share Posted November 19, 2017 so I'm curious.... let's say someone goes to cuba and they don't fulfill their requirement that they chose. and lets say 2 years down the road a government official contacts them to provide proof of what they were doing and they can't account for some time spent there... what happens? do they get arrested? get fined? has this happened to any one even before the new rules? Normal enforcement action taken by the US Treasury is in the form of a violation notice letter sent months - even years - after the travel. The letter will offer you the opportunity to settle the violation for a fixed amount of money. From there you can negotiate or request a hearing. If you disagree with the results you can go to court. Enforcement action against individuals is extremely rare - due to Treasury resource limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicedream Posted November 19, 2017 #129 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Normal enforcement action taken by the US Treasury is in the form of a violation notice letter sent months - even years - after the travel. The letter will offer you the opportunity to settle the violation for a fixed amount of money. From there you can negotiate or request a hearing. If you disagree with the results you can go to court. Enforcement action against individuals is extremely rare - due to Treasury resource limitations. Do you have a source for this? Not saying I don't believe you, I'm just curious about as many details as possible. Sent from my aosp_harpia using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfaeric Posted November 19, 2017 #130 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Anyone have a private tour booked for Havana. If so, please send me the website or email of that company. I had booked a tour and they emailed me yesterday saying they can no longer offer it as they are 100% Cuban owned and operated. We used Tour Republic, and just checking their website, it appears that they suggest support Cuban people for most of their tours. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted November 19, 2017 #131 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Do you have a source for this? Not saying I don't believe you, I'm just curious about as many details as possible. Sent from my aosp_harpia using Tapatalk Start your research here. https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Pages/default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicedream Posted November 19, 2017 #132 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Start your research here. https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Pages/default.aspx [emoji849] Sent from my aosp_harpia using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted November 19, 2017 #133 Share Posted November 19, 2017 [emoji849] Sent from my aosp_harpia using Tapatalk I do understand your confusion. The below article is old - 2002 vintage - but it does describe the enforcement process against an individual for traveling to Cuba by private boat. The rules have changed but the enforcement process is still pretty much the same. https://www.cruisingworld.com/destinations/higher-stakes-cuba-game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicedream Posted November 19, 2017 #134 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I do understand your confusion. The below article is old - 2002 vintage - but it does describe the enforcement process against an individual for traveling to Cuba by private boat. The rules have changed but the enforcement process is still pretty much the same. https://www.cruisingworld.com/destinations/higher-stakes-cuba-game Thanks for that link. I was sure that the Treasury website wouldn't include details about how enforcement is rare due to the levels of resources available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwgreenlee Posted November 20, 2017 #135 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Thanks for that link. I was sure that the Treasury website wouldn't include details about how enforcement is rare due to the levels of resources available. There is a link on the Treasury page giving you a summary of all enforcement actions back to 2003. For example, in 2017, to date, there are 15 actions completed. This is for all sanctioned countries - not just Cuba. The link is: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/CivPen/Pages/civpen-index2.aspx Even if you back a couple decades, in the heyday of enforcement, there were only a few hundred actions per year and Treasury was using a method called "pre-violation notices" where you were offered the opportunity to settle, at a discounted rate, the issue without Treasury even bothering to develop the necessary support for a violation notice. There is simply no way Treasury is going to go after the current tens of thousands of cruise passengers. The cruise lines, themselves, may not be so safe. All that said, in the world of violating federal law, I am not going to take the chance for something with as low a reward as visiting Cuba. I want to be very comfortable that I am in compliance with US Law, Cuban Law, and the polices of the cruise line. Right now, I am not at that comfort level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Eight Posted November 20, 2017 #136 Share Posted November 20, 2017 There is a link on the Treasury page giving you a summary of all enforcement actions back to 2003. For example, in 2017, to date, there are 15 actions completed. This is for all sanctioned countries - not just Cuba. The link is: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/CivPen/Pages/civpen-index2.aspx Even if you back a couple decades, in the heyday of enforcement, there were only a few hundred actions per year and Treasury was using a method called "pre-violation notices" where you were offered the opportunity to settle, at a discounted rate, the issue without Treasury even bothering to develop the necessary support for a violation notice. There is simply no way Treasury is going to go after the current tens of thousands of cruise passengers. The cruise lines, themselves, may not be so safe. All that said, in the world of violating federal law, I am not going to take the chance for something with as low a reward as visiting Cuba. I want to be very comfortable that I am in compliance with US Law, Cuban Law, and the polices of the cruise line. Right now, I am not at that comfort level. So, the fact that one might not later have an issue?? I agree with you, it would be violating US Federal Law. Seems we have become a lawless society. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfaeric Posted November 20, 2017 #137 Share Posted November 20, 2017 So, the fact that one might not later have an issue?? I agree with you, it would be violating US Federal Law. Seems we have become a lawless society. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Ironic that an administration who claims to reduce regulations wants to tighten this, isn’t it? Seems like a waste of time to be so concerned about. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor_Sally Posted November 20, 2017 #138 Share Posted November 20, 2017 We are traveling to Cuba on Feb.17th with Carnival . According to their web site you have to do a tour each day to be allowed off the ship . After the tour you may wander . The second day we are only in port till noon so three hours of touring is required to get off the ship . I am not sure if it is worth the hassle . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicedream Posted November 20, 2017 #139 Share Posted November 20, 2017 We are traveling to Cuba on Feb.17th with Carnival . According to their web site you have to do a tour each day to be allowed off the ship . After the tour you may wander . The second day we are only in port till noon so three hours of touring is required to get off the ship . I am not sure if it is worth the hassle . I just looked at the FAQ for Carnival, and this part really stuck out to me: Q: Does Carnival offer shore excursions that comply with one of the 12 general licenses? A: Carnival will offer optional shore excursion programs that will fully comply with all the requirements for people-to-people programs. In planning activities ashore, guests should keep in mind that people-to-people activities must be fulfilled before guests can engage in free time. Evening shore excursions offered by Carnival do not comply with the people-to-people guidelines and cannot be considered to be part of the required full schedule of activities. Q: How much free time is there? A: After completion of a full-time schedule of people-to-people activities, guests are free to explore as they wish. I'm not a lawyer, and I have to assume Carnival has loads of lawyers working for them. But I can't see how this would not be a blatant violation of the full-time schedule of compliant activities requirement. Technically I guess that when they say "guests are free to explore as they wish" that it *could* mean they are allowed to do compliant tours on their own. But how can Carnival offer evening excursions that they explicitly say are not compliant with people to people guidelines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLCrazy Posted November 20, 2017 #140 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I don’t think these rules effect cruise lines. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicedream Posted November 20, 2017 #141 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I don’t think these rules effect cruise lines. Sent from my iPhone using Forums What do you base that on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Eight Posted November 20, 2017 #142 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I don’t think these rules effect cruise lines. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Now that’s a new one. How so? I don’t believe it affects the cruise lines travel but does their cruisers. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCLCrazy Posted November 20, 2017 #143 Share Posted November 20, 2017 What do you base that on? The letters that my friends have received from the cruise lines telling them not to worry. It doesn’t effect cruise lines. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicedream Posted November 20, 2017 #144 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The letters that my friends have received from the cruise lines telling them not to worry. It doesn’t effect cruise lines. Sent from my iPhone using Forums That's not what the letters say. They say that the cruises are still going to Cuba, not that new regulations are irrelevant fot cruise passengers. Sent from my aosp_harpia using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Eight Posted November 20, 2017 #145 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The letters that my friends have received from the cruise lines telling them not to worry. It doesn’t effect cruise lines. Sent from my iPhone using Forums It doesn’t effect the cruise itinerary. It does change the rules for cruisers. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor_Sally Posted November 20, 2017 #146 Share Posted November 20, 2017 It absolutely does affect the cruisers . I am cruising to Cuba feb,17 th and it clearly states on Carnival's website that you will not be able to disembark without a planned excursion each day . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccersharon Posted November 20, 2017 #147 Share Posted November 20, 2017 It absolutely does affect the cruisers . I am cruising to Cuba feb,17 th and it clearly states on Carnival's website that you will not be able to disembark without a planned excursion each day . We are on the August 18th sailing. I know it's far out, but we have not received any information since the change in regulations. I would appreciate seeing the letter Carnival sent you, if you could post it. Thanks! Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor_Sally Posted November 20, 2017 #148 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Carnival did not send me a letter . I went to their website under destinations pick Cuba and follow it down . It will say things you need to know . Their it plainly states their rules . The only was you can wander in Cuba is after you complete the required activity . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccersharon Posted November 20, 2017 #149 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Carnival did not send me a letter . I went to their website under destinations pick Cuba and follow it down . It will say things you need to know . Their it plainly states their rules . The only was you can wander in Cuba is after you complete the required activity . Ok, thanks! Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belkin Posted November 21, 2017 #150 Share Posted November 21, 2017 We are traveling to Cuba on Feb.17th with Carnival . According to their web site you have to do a tour each day to be allowed off the ship . After the tour you may wander . The second day we are only in port till noon so three hours of touring is required to get off the ship . I am not sure if it is worth the hassle . We went to Cuba with Carnival on October 19th, so before the new rules. The ship arrived at 11:30am so we were only required to do a 4 hour tour that day. The next day the ship was set to leave at 12noon. When I asked what the requirements were for that day, they were very vague and basically just shrugged their shoulders. We got off the ship and wandered around area sight seeing. We really enjoyed Havana and booked the August 18th sailing where the ship will be there 2 full days. Will be interesting to see how this compares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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