New rules on visiting Cuba

[YoHoHo]

Not sure why you would think it would continue. Since you have to have a US tour guide, you can't just get off the ship ...

Maybe I missed it but other than a previous poster who "had heard a few months ago that getting off the ship by yourself might be against the new rules" I have not seen where pax will be barred from leaving the ship.

 

Yes, one must buy activities through a US based middleman and have a US based "guide" accompany them to qualify (and we don't know what that looks like yet) but under old rules one needed to have qualifying activities for the greater part of the day (don't recall actually wording), nothing prevented a pax from a non-qualifying activity after that (such as classic convertible ride to the Tropicana).

 

If it is true that USA citizens or US based cruise line pax have travel banned unless accompanied by a handler then that does make a visit much more restrictive. Only allowed to see what your US based handler will show you.

 

If it is stated that pax can only leave the ship when accompanied by a US based "guide/rep" then that would be bad. I'm happy to be corrected on that.

[pbenjamin]

The list of restricted entities seems kind of random. The tour operator for all of the excursions offered by Fathom on our cruise was Cubatur. They seemed to be a huge operation with fleets of brand new Chinese made air conditioned buses. They are not on the list. Similarly the biggest selling rum in Cuba is Havana Club, which is not on the list but two more obscure rums (Ron Varadero and Ron Caney) are. All of these things are owned by the Cuban government but supposedly the distinction is whether or not they are "under the control of, or acting for or on behalf of, the Cuban military, intelligence, or security services or personnel with which direct financial transactions would disproportionately benefit such services or personnel at the expense of the Cuban people or private enterprise in Cuba." Considering how understaffed the State Department is I would guess that the list was constructed rather haphazardly and that there was a bit of lobbying involved. Havana Club, for example, is marketed by a joint venture of the Cuban government and Pernod Ricard. Pernod Ricard is an international heavyweight (Absolut, Beefeaters, Chivas Regal, Seagram's, Jamieson, etc.) who would be likely to have lobbying clout in DC.

 

The real and unresolved questions with regard to cruises to Cuba would appear to be:

 

 

1. How will the cruise lines handle passengers going ashore? Will they require you to be in one of their organized tours and not let you off the ship unless you are in one? Once ashore will they keep a head count and make sure that you get on the bus?
   
2. Will the US government engage in any sort of policing of the policy? Let's face it, up until now there has been absolutely no enforcement. A lot of what people have typically done does not adhere to the rules but it has never been an issue. If they actually audited people's activities it would turn out that conversing with cab drivers and bartenders doesn't really do the job of fulfilling the OFAC requirements but it hasn't mattered because nobody checks.
   

My guess is that the cruise lines will not want to be in the enforcement business and that the US government will lack the will or the resources to pull people aside and grill them on their activities. Things will therefore be pretty much unchanged.

[esanders64]

Despite what USA Today might say, there is no such thing as a "people -to-people visa". For US citizens travelling to Cuba there are two things, a visa (or travel card) issued by the Cuban government, and the affadavit required by the US government, wherein "people-to-people" is one of the options. Two different documents by two different governments.

 

 

 

Interesting to see the list of restricted businesses, in that it didn't include either the private tour company we used in Havana, FerTours, nor the restaurant we ate at, Habana 61.

 

As previous posters have remarked, the enforcement of these rules could be a logistical nightmare. I am curious to see how the cruise lines respond. I would be surprised if the cruise lines are willing to do any more enforcement than what what they are doing today, i.e. Requiring that passengers complete the visa application and accompanying affidavit.

 

 

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[alfaeric]

If it is stated that pax can only leave the ship when accompanied by a US based "guide/rep" then that would be bad. I'm happy to be corrected on that.

 

That is the key question to the new rules. What does "US guide" really mean? It could be a US based company with a Cuban employee doing the tour. Or it could mean that that actual guide in Cuba needs to be from the US.

 

The way I read the new rules, I read the latter. Which is not good- we'd likely cancel our trips next year if we could not tour with a local tour guide and are forced to be in a large group.

 

Thankfully, we did two trips already. And can wait patiently until the rules change again. Perhaps we can open Cuba up like China, since the governments are so similar....

[alfaeric]

Interesting to see the list of restricted businesses, in that it didn't include either the private tour company we used in Havana, FerTours, nor the restaurant we ate at, Habana 61.

 

As previous posters have remarked, the enforcement of these rules could be a logistical nightmare. I am curious to see how the cruise lines respond. I would be surprised if the cruise lines are willing to do any more enforcement than what what they are doing today, i.e. Requiring that passengers complete the visa application and accompanying affidavit.

 

 

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Regardless of how hard it is to realistically enforce, who is willing to take the risk? I know people who traveled to Cuba before the restrictions lifted via Canada or Mexico. But those numbers were pretty small. We are pretty much back to those restrictions.

[islandwoman]

I hope that everyone who will be cruising to Cuba in the next few months will post their experiences.

 

I am now struggling with the question of whether or not to cancel the cruise I have booked (NCL) and/or the cruise I'm waitlisted for (Oceania). Payment date for NCL is February 2.

Last year we did a Princess cruise that included St. Petersburg. We were not allowed to get off the ship unless we were on a ship's or approved tour. (I think this was Russia's policy, not that of the U.S.) The port call was disappointing. I only saw traffic, rain, and tourist sites that the guide wanted me to see. I don't feel as if I've visited St. Petersburg.

I don't want to cruise to Cuba if that's how it's going to be.

 

Any suggestions?

[pbenjamin]

Regardless of how hard it is to realistically enforce, who is willing to take the risk? I know people who traveled to Cuba before the restrictions lifted via Canada or Mexico. But those numbers were pretty small. We are pretty much back to those restrictions.

 

Well you took the risk when you chose "support for the Cuban people" when you didn't qualify under the rules. I suspect people will continue to do what they can get away with.

[alfaeric]

Well you took the risk when you chose "support for the Cuban people" when you didn't qualify under the rules. I suspect people will continue to do what they can get away with.

Ok, we will just have to disagree the interpretation of this line

 

Individuals and non-governmental organizations that promote independent activity intended to strengthen civil society in Cuba

Does mean that supporting an individual business owner which does strengthen civil society in Cuba. It's the antithesis of communism, so...

None the less, not many people use that, anyway, and we don't know it that, too, will change.

[Knighton]

I hope that everyone who will be cruising to Cuba in the next few months will post their experiences.

 

I am now struggling with the question of whether or not to cancel the cruise I have booked (NCL) and/or the cruise I'm waitlisted for (Oceania). Payment date for NCL is February 2.

Last year we did a Princess cruise that included St. Petersburg. We were not allowed to get off the ship unless we were on a ship's or approved tour. (I think this was Russia's policy, not that of the U.S.) The port call was disappointing. I only saw traffic, rain, and tourist sites that the guide wanted me to see. I don't feel as if I've visited St. Petersburg.

I don't want to cruise to Cuba if that's how it's going to be.

 

Any suggestions?

 

I would wait and see. February 2 is 2 1/2 months away. Since the rule just went into effect today, I wouldn't jump ship just yet until we find out exactly what the cruise lines are doing. I would think by January it should be pretty clear, which gives you time to find a different cruise if the Cuba ones don't look like they're going to be as interesting anymore.

 

Gee, Russia's rules have changed. We had an overnight port call in St. Petersburg 10 years ago. First day we took a day trip to Moscow (so cool-they flew us there, toured the city all day, then flew us back-does anyone offer that anymore?) and the second day I'm pretty sure we had a private tour of St Petersburg booked-it was just us 2 in a private car with someone and it was terrific.

[Snit13]

When we were in Havana last month we took a ship sponsored tour the first day. Who owns the bus we rode on? Does the government/military own the bus? That evening we took a taxi (yellow cab) to Hotel Nacionale for dinner and a show. Who owns that cab? I see Hotel Nacionale is not on the banned list.

 

The following day we did "Hop On Hop Off" the bus on our own for about 3 hour tour around town. Wonder if that will be possible under new rules. I enjoyed that more than the guided tour sponsored by the ship.

 

Have been to China on guided tour and to Russia on tours ship tour. We did overnight on ship in St. Petersburg but only got off ship with guides. Enjoyed getting off ship in Havana and doing what we opted to do. Glad we booked when we did.

[Bostonjetset]

I hope that everyone who will be cruising to Cuba in the next few months will post their experiences.

 

I am now struggling with the question of whether or not to cancel the cruise I have booked (NCL) and/or the cruise I'm waitlisted for (Oceania). Payment date for NCL is February 2.

Last year we did a Princess cruise that included St. Petersburg. We were not allowed to get off the ship unless we were on a ship's or approved tour. (I think this was Russia's policy, not that of the U.S.) The port call was disappointing. I only saw traffic, rain, and tourist sites that the guide wanted me to see. I don't feel as if I've visited St. Petersburg.

I don't want to cruise to Cuba if that's how it's going to be.

 

Any suggestions?

 

You asked for a suggestion so I will give mine: continue with your trip!

Cuba is such a fabulous and interesting country; Havana truly bewitched me with her history and graceful decay. The people are wonderful and everywhere you turn is a photo op. I really believe that now [within the next 5-10 years at least] is the time to see Havana as it is only a matter of time before it changes.

 

No one can predict what the new regs will mean until there is more clarification from the cruise lines however, though certainly not ideal, even being forced on a ship's tour would still be preferable than not going at all, IMO.

 

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your experience in St Petersburg. We found that city to be wonderful as well. It is true that one must have a licensed tour booked to use the visa waiver but there are many private tour operators in the city who get rave reviews. We used Alla and they were wonderful but many others get high marks as well. If you ever go back, it may pay to look into private tours either as a small group or with just family/friends; some even let you plan your whole itinerary to your exact interests and just act as your guide/driver for official purposes.

[kitkat343]

Gee, Russia's rules have changed. We had an overnight port call in St. Petersburg 10 years ago. First day we took a day trip to Moscow (so cool-they flew us there, toured the city all day, then flew us back-does anyone offer that anymore?) and the second day I'm pretty sure we had a private tour of St Petersburg booked-it was just us 2 in a private car with someone and it was terrific.

 

I'm not sure the rules in St. Petersburg have changed. You currently have 3 options - take a ship excursion, and the ship will obtain a visa waiver for you, provided that your ship is docked in St. Petersburg for less than 72 hours or you can take a tour with a licensed private operator and they can obtain a visa waiver for you, or you can obtain your own visa and then you can explore the city however you like. If you are on a visa waiver, you must stay with your tour guide at all times, but the private tour operators (and even the a lot of the ships) offer private tours for just your family, and you can customize these tours to do whatever you want.

 

You can still travel to Moscow with a visa waiver if you have a 3 day stay in St. Petersburg, with either a ship excursion or a private state approved tour guide company.

 

The rules for St. Petersburg have been established for a long time, and people still get confused. I just hope the government will provide clarification for Cuba soon; I'd hate to think of people booking trips and not understanding what they are agreeing to.

[pbenjamin]

I just hope the government will provide clarification for Cuba soon; I'd hate to think of people booking trips and not understanding what they are agreeing to.

 

The clarification you seek will come from the cruise lines.

[hollytown]

Just received this from rci....

ABOUT YOUR UPCOMING TRAVELS

Dear Guest,

On November 8th, the United States government issued new regulations related to Cuba travel. We are pleased to inform you that we do not anticipate any changes to our Cuba itineraries, and we look forward to taking you there. One change that does impact travelers is that self-guided “people-to-people” travel will no longer be allowed. This means that in order to enjoy Cuba, you must be participating in a group tour or qualify for the other categories of authorized travel, which are listed in our Cuba Travel Requirements FAQs: www.royalcaribbean.com/cuba/faq/.

All of our Royal Caribbean shore excursions are designed to meet the necessary qualifications for authorized group “people-to-people” travel. We offer a wide variety of tours to select from. If you have not yet booked your shore excursions, please visit www.RoyalCaribbean.com/CruisePlanner for a list of exciting excursions to participate in. While onboard, you may also visit our Shore Excursions Desk, located on Deck 5.

You can expect to enjoy the same immersive, unforgettable experience you’ve been looking forward to as we visit the historical and beautiful port of Havana, Cuba on your upcoming cruise onboard Empress of the Seas.

As a reminder, please visit www.RoyalCaribbean.com/Cuba for useful tips to help you prepare for your trip and to gather all the necessary travel documentation. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to call us at 800-562-7625 or visit www.RoyalCaribbean.com/UpdatesOnCuba for the most up to date information.

Thank you for choosing Royal Caribbean for your upcoming vacation. We are excited to welcome you on your upcoming adventure.

Sincerely,

Royal Caribbean International

[beej210]

So I just called Royal Caribbean, and according to them, unless you booked your reservation before June 15, 2017, you will not be allowed off the boat in Cuba unless you are on a Royal Caribbean tour. Unfortunately, it appears as though Royal Caribbean tours are significantly overpriced - $275 p/p for a 3 hour classic car tour, $175 p/p for tickets to the Tropicana.

 

Anyone else have any information on this? We're sailing on 12/4 this year and I'd really prefer to do some of this stuff either on our own or through another tour provider.

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

I hope that everyone who will be cruising to Cuba in the next few months will post their experiences.

 

I am now struggling with the question of whether or not to cancel the cruise I have booked (NCL) and/or the cruise I'm waitlisted for (Oceania). Payment date for NCL is February 2.

Last year we did a Princess cruise that included St. Petersburg. We were not allowed to get off the ship unless we were on a ship's or approved tour. (I think this was Russia's policy, not that of the U.S.) The port call was disappointing. I only saw traffic, rain, and tourist sites that the guide wanted me to see. I don't feel as if I've visited St. Petersburg.

I don't want to cruise to Cuba if that's how it's going to be.

 

Any suggestions?

 

It's a shame that your Princess cruise excursion was disappointing. If you get there again, I'd suggest signing up for a tour by Alla or other third party tour provider OK'd by Russia rather than taking a ship's excursion. You don't need to purchase a visa to do that, and Alla's excursions were great, and cost less than what the cruise ship (Oceania) was offering. Yes, we did go to the primary sites, not people's homes or anything like that - but most people like that kind of tour. We did, at least, go on a short ride on the subway, which was mildly different and interesting. And when we asked questions about Russia, I felt the answers were reasonably truthful, although of course there were no scathing remarks about the government!

 

For Cuba, Viking has excursions offered that include some pretty decent sights and experiences, including riding in an old car, which so many people want to experience in Havana. Yes, they have a few excursions that don't interest me (for example, hearing a choral group and then talking to the singers) and at least one (kayaking) that doesn't sound like it's furthering our understanding of Cuba or furthering democracy but could at least be nothing but pure fun! The company is probably not run by the state, so it's (I would guess) probably not on the list of prohibited companies.

 

I'm OK with the changes, although I'd prefer to be cruising under the old rules. I'm not sure at this point if anyone will be counting noses once our excursion is over, or otherwise restricting our actions. However, the excursions are fairly substantive, so if we want to wander around on our own after an excursion (or possibly also before) I doubt seriously that the cruise line will take any action. But we'll see. I'll report back in mid December! (We are traveling under a general license of "Educational Activities & People to People Exchanges" set up by Viking with Cuba Travel Services.)

[melissd24]

I too just spoke to royal, we are sailing March 26. He stated that you are permitted to leave the ship having booked a non royal excursion as long as you have a printed confirmation to prove it. We are going to check off box 3, supporting the Cuban people, and booked the food tour and a 6hour private car tour of the city with a two hour stop at the beach.

 

 

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[hollytown]

I too just spoke to royal, we are sailing March 26. He stated that you are permitted to leave the ship having booked a non royal excursion as long as you have a printed confirmation to prove it. We are going to check off box 3, supporting the Cuban people, and booked the food tour and a 6hour private car tour of the city with a two hour stop at the beach.

 

 

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Which company did you book the private car tour with?

[melissd24]

Old car tours

 

 

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[beej210]

Melissd24: Thanks for that post. I called RCCL back and they said they have no idea, and that we would need to contact OFAC. I guess I'm wondering who's policing this? Like is there someone recording the time we get off the ship and back on and then filling in whether we were on an official tour for that entire time? Or could we take an official tour and then walk around on our own and go to the Tropicana on our own?

[melissd24]

I don’t believe they force you to take a RCC excursion without disclosing. What if you were a journalist or a visiting family. I refuse to pay the jacked up RCC excursion prices. I wouldn’t hesitate to book on your own and check off box 3 on the form. Hold all records for 5 years and walk around with your receipts and itinerary. You will be fine.

 

 

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[Knighton]

I think box 3 is the way to go. Book a private tour, print out your confirmation and tour details as proof. I doubt when you get back from the private tour there will be someone there forcing you back onto the ship.

[jswdlw]

I’m not convinced the money doesn’t end up with the Cuban Government.

 

 

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I have a friend who moved to the US when she was young. That money goes to the government. She said if you want to give the people something, give them a gift bag of the living basics.

 

Now another friend of mine who went to an all inclusive resort said the employees claimed they got to keep the tips.

[andrewsjerrypat]

I too just spoke to royal, we are sailing March 26. He stated that you are permitted to leave the ship having booked a non royal excursion as long as you have a printed confirmation to prove it. We are going to check off box 3, supporting the Cuban people, and booked the food tour and a 6hour private car tour of the city with a two hour stop at the beach.

 

 

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Who did you book with? Thanks, Jerry

[andrewsjerrypat]

Who did you book with? Thanks, Jerry