Breaking News !! RCCL to review Gratuities

[MAZANDSTEVE]

Sorry Lioness, but I have to disagree. They have not in any way, shape or form paid for the service staff that are paid on a base + gratiuty wage structure. They have paid for meals - food, dining room, yes - but not the service of them. They have paid for a stateroom - not the service staff that cleans it. ANY staff in a product - based business is paid for by the customer - directly or indirectly. The customer has paid a FRACTION of the service staff cost - not the whole of it and they are expected, as per the guidelines on the website, to make up the rest of that by gratiuty. As I said before, if it makes some people feel better by not telling them the cost is there and hiding it while hiking up their cruise fare by the same amount as suggested grats (or more, I would assume) then that's what they should do. But THAT is a hidden fare, in my opinion - not a section on the site and in your paperwork that specifically mentions what is customary to pay the staff - how can you consider that hidden? And you and some others keep giving their culute's definition of gratiuty as law - so what if I said gratiuty means 15% for average service, 18% for good service and 20% for great service because that's MY culture - does that mean that now they should abide by that and everyone should accept my definition?

A cruise ship is it's own destination with its own culture - we should abide by other cultures pay structures while visiting.

 

 

 

Hun, If you asked RC if the service was included in your cruise fare, I am sure they would say yes. They would hardly say no, if people told their room attendant they were not going to tip him/her would the RA stop cleaning, I think not.

RC and staff expect and hope people will pay the guided amount but its not compulsory. As you know, I did pre pay but that was my choice to do so I wasnt told I had to. MAZ

[beastiemom]

Sorry Lioness, but I have to disagree. They have not in any way, shape or form paid for the service staff that are paid on a base + gratiuty wage structure. They have paid for meals - food, dining room, yes - but not the service of them. They have paid for a stateroom - not the service staff that cleans it. ANY staff in a product - based business is paid for by the customer - directly or indirectly. The customer has paid a FRACTION of the service staff cost - not the whole of it and they are expected, as per the guidelines on the website, to make up the rest of that by gratiuty. As I said before, if it makes some people feel better by not telling them the cost is there and hiding it while hiking up their cruise fare by the same amount as suggested grats (or more, I would assume) then that's what they should do. But THAT is a hidden fare, in my opinion - not a section on the site and in your paperwork that specifically mentions what is customary to pay the staff - how can you consider that hidden? And you and some others keep giving their culute's definition of gratiuty as law - so what if I said gratiuty means 15% for average service, 18% for good service and 20% for great service because that's MY culture - does that mean that now they should abide by that and everyone should accept my definition?

A cruise ship is it's own destination with its own culture - we should abide by other cultures pay structures while visiting.

 

Well said, luckyprincess. I typed almost this exact same response, but it got eaten by site somehow!

 

If it makes everyone feel better, maybe they should just call it a service fee-it seems Lyness and a few others wouldn't be bothered by that term (anyone out there in RCCL marketing?). I don't get the hang-up in semantics.

 

BTW, it is not me, Lyness, who is telling everyone what to do. It is the cruiseline. They set the recommended amount, I just commented that I don't understand the resistance to paying it. It is clearly spelled out in all the documents (not "hidden"), and they make a specific recommended amount. And it is not recommended for MTD, but mandatory.

[beastiemom]

Hun, If you asked RC if the service was included in your cruise fare, I am sure they would say yes. They would hardly say no, if people told their room attendant they were not going to tip him/her would the RA stop cleaning, I think not.

RC and staff expect and hope people will pay the guided amount but its not compulsory. As you know, I did pre pay but that was my choice to do so I wasnt told I had to. MAZ

 

But I think that was the point of the OP, people aren't paying, and they are talking about making it compulsory. It is mandatory for MTD, now. And I will say, if you get on board and announce to your room steward at the beginning of the cruise that no matter what s/he did, you were not going to tip, they quality of their service would dip dramatically (and why wouldn't you focus your time and energies on your customers that are paying your wages).

[omromr]

But I think that was the point of the OP, people aren't paying, and they are talking about making it compulsory. It is mandatory for MTD, now. And I will say, if you get on board and announce to your room steward at the beginning of the cruise that no matter what s/he did, you were not going to tip, they quality of their service would dip dramatically (and why wouldn't you focus your time and energies on your customers that are paying your wages).

 

But, if service gets very bad since u dont tip, u can ofcourse complain about lousy service :D

[MAZANDSTEVE]

But I think that was the point of the OP, people aren't paying, and they are talking about making it compulsory. It is mandatory for MTD, now. And I will say, if you get on board and announce to your room steward at the beginning of the cruise that no matter what s/he did, you were not going to tip, they quality of their service would dip dramatically (and why wouldn't you focus your time and energies on your customers that are paying your wages).

 

 

But they would have to do their job with or without a tip, they would not like a complaint against them. I was replying to the thought that people think the service is not included with their fare.

If it is the staffs wages, then it should be compulsory because there are always people who will not tip, always! the only way round it apart from RC paying them suitable wages, is to build a service charge into the cost of the cruise. If you dont get reasonably good service, then perhaps apply for a refund on the service charge paid to that person. Seems reasonable to me.:) I am not against tipping but will not be told its for the service when we all know service is included, it may not be the best ever but at the end of the day, I dont want a room attendant kissing my *** just a made bed and clean towels will do.;)

[Lynnees]

Sorry Lioness, but I have to disagree. They have not in any way, shape or form paid for the service staff that are paid on a base + gratiuty wage structure. They have paid for meals - food, dining room, yes - but not the service of them. They have paid for a stateroom - not the service staff that cleans it. ANY staff in a product - based business is paid for by the customer - directly or indirectly. The customer has paid a FRACTION of the service staff cost - not the whole of it and they are expected, as per the guidelines on the website, to make up the rest of that by gratiuty. As I said before, if it makes some people feel better by not telling them the cost is there and hiding it while hiking up their cruise fare by the same amount as suggested grats (or more, I would assume) then that's what they should do. But THAT is a hidden fare, in my opinion - not a section on the site and in your paperwork that specifically mentions what is customary to pay the staff - how can you consider that hidden? And you and some others keep giving their culute's definition of gratiuty as law - so what if I said gratiuty means 15% for average service, 18% for good service and 20% for great service because that's MY culture - does that mean that now they should abide by that and everyone should accept my definition?

A cruise ship is it's own destination with its own culture - we should abide by other cultures pay structures while visiting.

 

Actually, yes they have. There is no where on the invoice from RCL that states "in addition to what you have paid for your fare you must now pay to have your room cleaned and pay to eat." Your invoice does say that the price they are charging you does include most meals. It does not anywhere say you must pay more when you get onboard.

 

What it does say is "suggested tips" - or, if one chooses MTD, manditory tips. As RCL distinguishes between the two I do too as do so many others.

 

I have never had service that doesn't warrent the "suggested" amount however there have been a couple of times where it's come close. If it becomes a mandatory service charge I, along with many others, will not give anything extra.

 

So, once again, no matter how many times you and beastiemom try to tell the rest of the world they are paying for something that is not in the contract that everyone likes to quote so often, it just isn't true.

 

Gratuities are not manditory - the majority of cruisers have no idea how poorly the crew are paid - and - for the most part arn't interested in the backroom financials. For those who come from areas where gratuities are not normal, they will continue to either not pay them or give a lot less than those from the US. It's the way of the world - to each their own.

[Lynnees]

But I think that was the point of the OP, people aren't paying, and they are talking about making it compulsory. It is mandatory for MTD, now. And I will say, if you get on board and announce to your room steward at the beginning of the cruise that no matter what s/he did, you were not going to tip, they quality of their service would dip dramatically (and why wouldn't you focus your time and energies on your customers that are paying your wages).

 

Now, why would anyone even say such a silly thing. Most people don't make up their minds until they've received the service - good or bad. For those that don't tip - they have no intentions of saying anything.

 

And once again, cruisers are not paying the wages of the crew once they get onboard the ship as if it was an extra unannounced charged. They are onboard to enjoy the cruise they paid for with the bells and whistles that go with that contract - which includes most meals and a clean room.

[beastiemom]

Lyness,

 

My point about announcing you weren't going to tip was directly related to this statement:

 

Hun, If you asked RC if the service was included in your cruise fare, I am sure they would say yes. They would hardly say no, if people told their room attendant they were not going to tip him/her would the RA stop cleaning, I think not.

 

I think MAZ's point was the service for the room was included in the fare. My point is that it really isn't, and although you might get minimal service, the steward knows that you aren't paying his/her wages that week (because that is how they are paid, like it or not), so they may focus their energies on someone else.

 

Look, I don't like it either. I think the ships should have to pay the service people living wages out of our cruise fare, but that is not the way it is set up. Now you can make arguments that it is not mandatory unless you are on MTD, and I don't disagree with you. That being said, it is also true that the vast majority of their wages comes from the recommended tips. I know that and Lyness you know that. To pretend any differently when you know the truth is dishonest.

 

The cruise line recognizes that some won't pay, but counts on the majority to do as suggested. Once the balance is tipped in that enough people aren't paying as suggested, then they will make it mandatory (and have, in some cases). I think this is what they are exploring. I will guarantee that no matter what they decide, either raising rates to cover the service charge or charging a mandatory gratuity (or service charge if that makes you feel better) we, not RCCI out of their current profits, will be paying for it. Which, if you think about, further underscores the argument that we are not currently paying for it in our cruise fare.

[Cruzaholic41]

But I think that was the point of the OP, people aren't paying, and they are talking about making it compulsory.

 

The point of this particular OP is never quite that clear.

[casteenson]

I will be travelling on my first cruise, flying from Belfast to Barcelona on 9th May 2010 to meet the Voyager of the Seas ship. When we booked our trip through a local travel agent in Portadown we were told we either have gratutities included in the price of or cruise or pay for them whilst on board. We were however not informed of who we would have to tip or if we had to do it on a daily basis or at the end of our cruise. I have no problem with tipping anyone that I feel provides me with an adequate service as these people are doing a job that takes them away from family and friends for long periods of time and I have heard the wages of people like cabin staff and waiters are not good so I would not mind this. I am just not sure of the etiquette regading when and how much to tip. If anyone could help me with this and issues such as what is included and whats not I would appreciate the help.

[beastiemom]

It depends on what category of cabin. Assuming you are not in a suite, the recommended tip amount is $9.75 USD per person per day. That would include your cabin steward, assistant waiter, waiter and head waiter. Since I don't know what that translates to in EUR, I would suggest going to the purser's desk and asking for assistance. They will tell you exactly what the recommended amount is. There will also be a 15% service charge on any drinks ordered, so there would be no need to tip any additional amount unless you wanted.

 

You are certainly free to tip more the recommended amount, if you want. However, there is no obligation to do so. Many have said that if you have really exceptional service, a specific mention on the comment card goes a long way towards promotions and bonuses.

[luckyprincess]

 

So, once again, no matter how many times you and beastiemom try to tell the rest of the world they are paying for something that is not in the contract that everyone likes to quote so often, it just isn't true.

 

Gratuities are not manditory - the majority of cruisers have no idea how poorly the crew are paid - and - for the most part arn't interested in the backroom financials. For those who come from areas where gratuities are not normal, they will continue to either not pay them or give a lot less than those from the US. It's the way of the world - to each their own.

As I said, you have your definition of gratiuty and others have theirs. RCCL tells you specifically what their definition is and what they expect, or is customary. The crew gets paid a wage of base + tips. Therefore, yes, you haven't paid the entire service persons fee in your cruise fare UNTIL you provide gratiuty. You can go in circles on and on about it but that's the facts. Just because you may want it to be the same way as your culture (they are paid a set salary and get gratiuty for above and beyond that service) doesn't make it so. They have contracts which clearly state that wages are paid by base + tips so I'm not sure what you're not getting....

You will pay this fee regardless - either in madatory service fees, jacked up cruise rates or whatever but if you continue on with RCI ships docked not in the US then sorry - but they have to retain their workers. If they find they are in a market that is not adhering to their recommended gratiuty request then they will have to just make it mandatory for the folks that are causing the issue. That's what the article was about - they aren't going to suddenly start a new pay structure for employees on only one or two ships - if the employees know they will only make $x amount for the month with no chance of getting a higher salary through better service then why wouldn't they do what they're doing now - changing contracts to get on ships that pay well? The employees are clearly happy with base + tips and are scrambling to find another ship or line to switch to with that structure - not asking to get a set hourly wage. I guess I just don't understand all of the semantics - when you buy a dress the money you pay for it is going towards the cashiers salary. When you buy a cruise, the money you pay for it is going toward the servers salary - you're just paying a little upfront and the rest later....

I don't accept the 'it's the way of the world' type of argument when it means not paying people for their good service and I'm glad to see that RCI won't accept it either, personally.

[born 2 cruise]

It seems to me the biggest complaint to adding it to fare cost is the poor service that would result. I cannot believe the lines would keep an employee that gives poor service. Too many cabins unfilled if they do.

 

Vis

[marielco]

A

but if you continue on with RCI ships docked not in the US then sorry - but they have to retain their workers. If they find they are in a market that is not adhering to their recommended gratiuty request then they will have to just make it mandatory for the folks that are causing the issue.

 

There is another alternative - pay the people doing the work a proper wage not an exploitative one!

 

"The folk causing the issue" are RCI because they pay a pittance (so we are told) not the cruisers.

[Cruzaholic41]

There is another alternative - pay the people doing the work a proper wage not an exploitative one!

 

"The folk causing the issue" are RCI because they pay a pittance (so we are told) not the cruisers.

 

First off, why single out RCI on crew/staff wages? It is the same on all mass cruise lines. Second, if you want all crew/staff to be paid what we in America consider to be a proper wage, you can kiss the cruise industry goodbye.

[omromr]

First off, why single out RCI on crew/staff wages? It is the same on all mass cruise lines. Second, if you want all crew/staff to be paid what we in America consider to be a proper wage, you can kiss the cruise industry goodbye.

 

Funny, in Europe the cruiseindustry is doing ok, and the crew/staff is paid in a proper way, not leaving the cruiseliners obligations to their employees onto the customers shoulders.

[Cruzaholic41]

Funny, in Europe the cruiseindustry is doing ok, and the crew/staff is paid in a proper way, not leaving the cruiseliners obligations to their employees onto the customers shoulders.

 

What mass-market cruise lines are you talking about? What are their crew/staff numbers, and nationality make-up? What are the cruise fares?

 

You can not be comparing apples to apples.

[kands6191]

There is another alternative - pay the people doing the work a proper wage not an exploitative one!

 

"The folk causing the issue" are RCI because they pay a pittance (so we are told) not the cruisers.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't think the wages are exploitative at all. Here's why.

 

The last RCCL cruise I was on I talked in depth with our waiter. It was his last month of his contract. I believe he said he was from Malta. He was a salon owner and due to weather, his salon had been severely damaged. He was on his second tour. He said he had earned enough money to reopen his salon as well as expand it to include more services. He had a wife and 10 year old son who were waiting for him to come home. While he didn't like the separation, he really liked being able to make money like that quickly. He said he never would have been able to at home.

 

On a Princess cruise two years ago, it was staffed by mostly Eastern Europeans. The ones I talked to said they had little opportunity at home and, again, would never have been able to make that kind of money in their own country. The talked about taking a couple of months off between contracts and living it up.

 

No one forces them to sign up. In fact, the crew on Princess said that many were turned away when they got hired. It's similar to the guys who went to Alaska to work on the pipeline. It wasn't that great of a job and it was away from loved ones, but they made some good money, quickly.

 

Also, when people choose service-related jobs, they are taking a gamble. If they perform well and/or are lucky they have the chance to make more money than the guy standing next to them who is doing the same job. If not, they might make less. The person who chooses the job with the fixed wage always knows what his paycheck will be at the end of the week, but he can never hope for any more until raise time.

[petesweet]

I have not had time lately to read much on Cruise Critic, so this is a new thread for me. I read the first three pages and then realized there wasn't much new coming along.:)

I have three observations or opinions.

1. When we cruise on NCL, we always experience wonderful service. We have never felt that the service was below par because the tips were paid in the form of a "service charge" and therefore practically required.

2. We always have a great deal of fun interacting with our servers and cabin attendants. I think they can tell from our actions that we really appreciate their hard work, and from that they know we will be tipping well. Some people tend to look on these wonderful crew members as hired servants. We look on them as friends and equals.

3. I don't like the idea of, say, adding $100 to the cost of a cruise if that's what the tips would amount to, and here's why: There are some "big spenders" who come on here and brag that they tip some huge amount, or they throw tips around like confetti. We can't afford to do that. We enjoy (yes, ENJOY) tipping the suggested amount and OFTEN a bit more, but we can't afford to do what I call "overtipping." If the tips were added to the cost of the cruise, then these big spenders would just up the ante, so to speak, and make us run-of-the-mill people--generous though we try to be--look like we don't appreciate the good service.

Not sure what I have said is really clearly conveying my thoughts, but something is making me balk at the idea of not having tipping at all and just increasing the wages of the crew.

Kathy

[kooljamming]

But I think that was the point of the OP, people aren't paying, and they are talking about making it compulsory. It is mandatory for MTD, now. And I will say, if you get on board and announce to your room steward at the beginning of the cruise that no matter what s/he did, you were not going to tip, they quality of their service would dip dramatically (and why wouldn't you focus your time and energies on your customers that are paying your wages).

 

You might think so until you factor in PRIDE and taking the time to do things right. I have worked as a waitress and served patrons who I knew upfront was going to $tiff me. I took the time to provide them with great service, maybe to prove I take pride with or without what is due me. Granted there were some customer I went over board. What do you think pride in ones work is all about? People go beyond everyday without factoring in the almighty dollar.

 

Chances are the cruise line haven't added fare because of tax reasons. Though 'tips' are charged on your bill as 'hotel charge', they are not reported as income for them. They rely on the fact that some people in this world are overtipper and some are stiffers, thus creating a workable medium.

 

The cruise lines exploit cheap labor, that's a FACT. People in the US would do better on welfare, on taxpayers dollar, than one of these jobs. However these jobs provide great oppertunities for these people who are dying to survive in their homeland. A job on a ship or a possible trip to the grave.....woo, woo, tough choice. Ok, a bit overkill, a trip to the market, shoes on your feet, books for your kids. They are forced to leave, or stay and watch their children starve. That's not a pretty sight, not that some/few here woud have a clue. In the meantime our tough choice is which sailing and which mass market line. Consider ourselves truly blessed but let's not forget someone/somechild is paying for it in ways we could only imagine!

[LADYDI61]

I just have to get his off my chest - The one person I usually hate tipping is the Matre D. In almost all of my cruises no matter what line it is - we don't see the Matre D at all - never comes to the table - except for the very last night when - yes when we are handing out tips. Perhaps I don't understand what that job entails. We still tip him, but not sure what it is for. He should be on salary instead. My 2 cents.

 

And here I thought I was the only one who thougt that way. I 100% agree

[beastiemom]

You might think so until you factor in PRIDE and taking the time to do things right. I have worked as a waitress and served patrons who I knew upfront was going to $tiff me. I took the time to provide them with great service, maybe to prove I take pride with or without what is due me. Granted there were some customer I went over board. What do you think pride in ones work is all about? People go beyond everyday without factoring in the almighty dollar.

 

Chances are the cruise line haven't added fare because of tax reasons. Though 'tips' are charged on your bill as 'hotel charge', they are not reported as income for them. They rely on the fact that some people in this world are overtipper and some are stiffers, thus creating a workable medium.

 

The cruise lines exploit cheap labor, that's a FACT. People in the US would do better on welfare, on taxpayers dollar, than one of these jobs. However these jobs provide great oppertunities for these people who are dying to survive in their homeland. A job on a ship or a possible trip to the grave.....woo, woo, tough choice. Ok, a bit overkill, a trip to the market, shoes on your feet, books for your kids. They are forced to leave, or stay and watch their children starve. That's not a pretty sight, not that some/few here woud have a clue. In the meantime our tough choice is which sailing and which mass market line. Consider ourselves truly blessed but let's not forget someone/somechild is paying for it in ways we could only imagine!

 

Nicely said, kooljamming. I think it was a particularly intiuitive comment about taxes. I never thought about that and you are probably right. And it brings up an interesting post. I wonder who the employees pay taxes to?

[mynyddisamrs]

I've been quickly reading comments on this thread and perhaps someone can help with my question on tips.

If you have freedom dining how do RCL or any cruise line, calculate the amount of gratuity you're charged on your account. If you've opted for freedom dining can you change to set dining?

Having worked in the Catering and hospitality industry I know it's great to get tips for good service but don't really think tips should be taken as wages - wages should be adequate without the tips. Some hope eh?

[kooljamming]

Nicely said, kooljamming. I think it was a particularly intiuitive comment about taxes. I never thought about that and you are probably right. And it brings up an interesting post. I wonder who the employees pay taxes to?

 

If added to the fare it more than likely would change the cruise line accounting and probably not for the better. You know what happens every time more income is report....real or not...taxes! Why else would they state/advertise it as tip/gratuity/optional but print it as hotel charge:confused: As for employees, my gosh I wouldn't be surprise if they are expected to give 'their Uncle Sam' a portion;).

 

Side Note: Californians will be feeling the tax pinch in the next coming month. Ten percent more will be taken out their paychecks...Hmm right around when my final payment is due. If not for pride I would cancel this cruise to show the Governor, you take my money, I am staying home!

[norriemike]

Im Irish and just got back from my first cruise last month. As regards tipping Im more convinced than ever that staff onboard should be paid a decent wage by their employers and not have to depend on tips. I was absolutly DISGUSTED at the way these people grovel to your every wish so that they could get an extra few dollars at the end of the cruise. Grown men telling us at h=the end of one meal how important tips were to him and his family. My thirteen year old daughter even asked me, why is he telling us this? People on here say that paying them properly would make cruising too expensive, so what they are really saying whether they like to hear it or not is, is let us holiday cheaply and leave it up to us to throw a few stray dollars in the way of these poor people who take care of their every need. I was truly truly disgusted at the way people didnt go to the last diner in order to avoid tipping at all. I just think the whole thing is horrible, just horrible.