Breaking News !! RCCL to review Gratuities

[luckyprincess]

Well I pre-pay gratuities and pay the stateroom attendant the recommended plus a little bit more and the others the recommended amount. I don't like doing it but accept that they don't get paid decent wage and rely on that money. I will admit I really don't understand how North American came to this situation but please explain.

 

I find it demeaning how the stateroom attendants think they have to make towel animals to get a tip - what a waste of time! I also find the ingratiating manner of the waitstaff in MDR embarrassing.

 

Please explain to me how this system came about not just on cruise ships but in the service industry in general. Does anyone pay tax on tips - does the Inland Revenue assume a general level of tips on people who work in the service industry.

 

You say that non Americans don't "want" to understand - I can tell you that no one has ever explained it to me satisfactorily.

Hi, I really like your post because there is no snarky tones or insults. You asked - I'll try to explain the system in the US from someone that worked a tipped postition in a restaurant.

First, the tipped employee pays taxes on the tips they receive. The IRS assumes we make a certain percentage in tips - I think it's 8% but that may have changed. It is true that some people may try to not claim their cash tips but in the end that just makes their reportable income lower (dashing chances of getting car loans, mortgages and what not) and thus is not a good practice. We also get a lower than minimum wage hourly rate - about $3.50 where I've worked, so we get a check every week with our hourly pay and taxes are taken out of that, as well, along with insurance if it is provided.

Here in the U.S. there are many restauants and it is a difficult business to make money in with all of the overhead costs. The tipping system works so well because having the employer pay a less than minimum wage to servers means that the savings is passed along to the diner in the total check cost. Then, the diner pays the server directly for their service, based on performance. It's not just 'whatever I want to give', we do have a very clear structure here of 15% for average service, 18% for good service and 20% for very good service with wiggle room in different states/economic areas. By paying only a portion of the servers pay, the restaurant owner saves a bit on payroll, the diner gets a less expensive menu and is directly in control of the servers pay. Both win. Think of it as the server being a sub contractor.

Now, from the server angle, it's also a win but of course, like any job, has its ups and downs. If you live in a economically challenged place, serving is obviously not going to be a way to make a living. In the metro areas, it's definetly a good alternative to minimum wage jobs. See, even if the restaurant is slow or you have people only tipping 10% or something, servers are protected by a law that says if you don't make at least minimum wage with the total of the reduced wage per hour + tips, then the employer must supplement your pay per hour to bring it up to minimum wage. I've never in my life seen any server make less or even at minimum wage but it's nice to know that if something happened, you will at least make minimum wage. So for all that worry about the US servers 'living on only a couple of dollars an hour' don't worry! We get minimum wage regardless! The difference between here and other countries is that we have the opportunity to make MORE than minimum wage - that's not the case in other places where serving pays a flat fee per hour. You'll never make more - may as well be a cashier at Walmart - its way less work!:) This way, the better you perform, for the most part, the more money you make. It's a great tool.

Also, a note on service. I never felt demeaned by providing the best service I could and making people feel special. Yes, of course I was hoping it would reflect in my tip, but I also just have good work ethic and like making people feel special when they are out spending their hard earned money.

[marci22]

You say that non Americans don't "want" to understand - I can tell you that no one has ever explained it to me satisfactorily.

 

Again, my implication was that 'some' non-American posters don't understand even after it has been explained in numerous ways. There are just some posters who don't want to tip for any reason. This is not ALL people of ANY country. And I realize that some Americans don't tip too (and I learned that the hard way).

 

luckyprincess above explained it pretty well, although when I waited tables they assumed one made a higher tip percentage for tax reporting purposes.

[wvlibra]

I did extensive research regarding Gratuities prior to my first cruise which was on RCCL and found that I wanted to tip everyone above the recommended amount except for the maitre' d who we had no contact with except on the last night when he came by to collect his tip. Second cruise on NCL gratuities were prepaid and we paid the cabin steward extra for excellent service and room service upon each delivery of course. I count that as part of the cost of a cruise just as going out to dinner includes a good tip or an excellent tip for excellent service. If you can't afford the tip, you can't afford to go out to dinner or to take a cruise.

[Ripley's Lady]

If they make gratuities mandatory then it is not gratuitites or tips if you will. It is a service charge made because they won't pay their staff a decent wage. No more - no less.

 

It is my choice when I give someone a gratuity and all the crap trap that is said is not going to tell me otherwise. I have never given less than the suggested amount however I have redistributed it because of lousy service and I will continue to do so.

 

Hi Marilyn,

Nice to see you posting here - I'm used to reading your comments on the Canada Eh? thread. Please post a review when you get off your Feb cruise on the other thread.

 

I've already said my piece and thanked people for their added info.

So I will just wish everyone a Happy New Year and a wonderful winter cruising season.

Nancy:)

[lowcountrycouple]

Hi, I really like your post because there is no snarky tones or insults. You asked - I'll try to explain the system in the US from someone that worked a tipped postition in a restaurant.

First, the tipped employee pays taxes on the tips they receive. The IRS assumes we make a certain percentage in tips - I think it's 8% but that may have changed. It is true that some people may try to not claim their cash tips but in the end that just makes their reportable income lower (dashing chances of getting car loans, mortgages and what not) and thus is not a good practice. We also get a lower than minimum wage hourly rate - about $3.50 where I've worked, so we get a check every week with our hourly pay and taxes are taken out of that, as well, along with insurance if it is provided.

Here in the U.S. there are many restauants and it is a difficult business to make money in with all of the overhead costs. The tipping system works so well because having the employer pay a less than minimum wage to servers means that the savings is passed along to the diner in the total check cost. Then, the diner pays the server directly for their service, based on performance. It's not just 'whatever I want to give', we do have a very clear structure here of 15% for average service, 18% for good service and 20% for very good service with wiggle room in different states/economic areas. By paying only a portion of the servers pay, the restaurant owner saves a bit on payroll, the diner gets a less expensive menu and is directly in control of the servers pay. Both win. Think of it as the server being a sub contractor.

Now, from the server angle, it's also a win but of course, like any job, has its ups and downs. If you live in a economically challenged place, serving is obviously not going to be a way to make a living. In the metro areas, it's definetly a good alternative to minimum wage jobs. See, even if the restaurant is slow or you have people only tipping 10% or something, servers are protected by a law that says if you don't make at least minimum wage with the total of the reduced wage per hour + tips, then the employer must supplement your pay per hour to bring it up to minimum wage. I've never in my life seen any server make less or even at minimum wage but it's nice to know that if something happened, you will at least make minimum wage. So for all that worry about the US servers 'living on only a couple of dollars an hour' don't worry! We get minimum wage regardless! The difference between here and other countries is that we have the opportunity to make MORE than minimum wage - that's not the case in other places where serving pays a flat fee per hour. You'll never make more - may as well be a cashier at Walmart - its way less work!:) This way, the better you perform, for the most part, the more money you make. It's a great tool.

Also, a note on service. I never felt demeaned by providing the best service I could and making people feel special. Yes, of course I was hoping it would reflect in my tip, but I also just have good work ethic and like making people feel special when they are out spending their hard earned money.

You, my dear, would receive at least 20% from me. In the 18 years since I became a "Friend of Bill" I tip for service and attitude not to look like a big shot.

[luckyprincess]

You, my dear, would receive at least 20% from me. In the 18 years since I became a "Friend of Bill" I tip for service and attitude not to look like a big shot.

Aw thank you!! You're too kind:) And congrats on being Bill's friend for 18 years!!:eek: That's a lot of inspiration for newcomers. I have many "friends of Bill" and I hope to celebrate their 18 years plus more someday!:D

[jcruise67]

This issue has raised the greatest controversy over the years. The bottom line is that all cruise lines should have a mandatory gratuity policy. Most cruise lines have automatic tipping policies, whereas the gratuities are automatically added to your sail & sign account upon boarding. The standard is $10 per person per day; no matter how many people reside in your stateroom. For DW and I the $140 for a 7 night cruise is average. We also tip those staff members in particular that go above and beyond to make our cruise a bit more special. Those pax that do not tip, the auto gratutity will make up for that. The $10 per pax per day also covers tipping for those who do not tip extra at all. So, cruise lines should either add it to the price of the cruise fare or make a mandatory gratuity policy by adding it to every pax on board sail & sign account. This will deter bad morale among staff and increase productivity and service.

 

jcruise

[bluegirlum]

This issue has raised the greatest controversy over the years. The bottom line is that all cruise lines should have a mandatory gratuity policy. Most cruise lines have automatic tipping policies, whereas the gratuities are automatically added to your sail & sign account upon boarding. The standard is $10 per person per day; no matter how many people reside in your stateroom. For DW and I the $140 for a 7 night cruise is average. We also tip those staff members in particular that go above and beyond to make our cruise a bit more special. Those pax that do not tip, the auto gratutity will make up for that. The $10 per pax per day also covers tipping for those who do not tip extra at all. So, cruise lines should either add it to the price of the cruise fare or make a mandatory gratuity policy by adding it to every pax on board sail & sign account. This will deter bad morale among staff and increase productivity and service.

 

jcruise

 

That's a good idea, but remember that "gratuity" and "tip" are something you give VOLUNTARILY, or are supposed to. This will be--and should be--a service charge, if they want to make it mandatory. It basically is a service charge anyway, so it may as well be added on to begin with. If it's a tax issue for RCI, well, that's one thing. But to think that tips are now "voluntary" is absurd. We already are forced to pay this whether we get good service or not.

[CruisesOnMyMind]

Hi, I really like your post because there is no snarky tones or insults. You asked - I'll try to explain the system in the US from someone that worked a tipped postition in a restaurant.

First, the tipped employee pays taxes on the tips they receive. The IRS assumes we make a certain percentage in tips - I think it's 8% but that may have changed. It is true that some people may try to not claim their cash tips but in the end that just makes their reportable income lower (dashing chances of getting car loans, mortgages and what not) and thus is not a good practice. We also get a lower than minimum wage hourly rate - about $3.50 where I've worked, so we get a check every week with our hourly pay and taxes are taken out of that, as well, along with insurance if it is provided.

Here in the U.S. there are many restauants and it is a difficult business to make money in with all of the overhead costs. The tipping system works so well because having the employer pay a less than minimum wage to servers means that the savings is passed along to the diner in the total check cost. Then, the diner pays the server directly for their service, based on performance. It's not just 'whatever I want to give', we do have a very clear structure here of 15% for average service, 18% for good service and 20% for very good service with wiggle room in different states/economic areas. By paying only a portion of the servers pay, the restaurant owner saves a bit on payroll, the diner gets a less expensive menu and is directly in control of the servers pay. Both win. Think of it as the server being a sub contractor.

Now, from the server angle, it's also a win but of course, like any job, has its ups and downs. If you live in a economically challenged place, serving is obviously not going to be a way to make a living. In the metro areas, it's definetly a good alternative to minimum wage jobs. See, even if the restaurant is slow or you have people only tipping 10% or something, servers are protected by a law that says if you don't make at least minimum wage with the total of the reduced wage per hour + tips, then the employer must supplement your pay per hour to bring it up to minimum wage. I've never in my life seen any server make less or even at minimum wage but it's nice to know that if something happened, you will at least make minimum wage. So for all that worry about the US servers 'living on only a couple of dollars an hour' don't worry! We get minimum wage regardless! The difference between here and other countries is that we have the opportunity to make MORE than minimum wage - that's not the case in other places where serving pays a flat fee per hour. You'll never make more - may as well be a cashier at Walmart - its way less work!:) This way, the better you perform, for the most part, the more money you make. It's a great tool.

Also, a note on service. I never felt demeaned by providing the best service I could and making people feel special. Yes, of course I was hoping it would reflect in my tip, but I also just have good work ethic and like making people feel special when they are out spending their hard earned money.

 

Just for knowledge sake,,,how is this regulated? If I tip $10.00 but the server only reports $1.00, then the employer is reponsible for the rest. Sounds like a ton of trust is needed between employer and employee. Why not just pay minimum wage with tips on top like everywhere else in the world?

[bluegirlum]

Just for knowledge sake,,,how is this regulated? If I tip $10.00 but the server only reports $1.00, then the employer is reponsible for the rest. Sounds like a ton of trust is needed between employer and employee. Why not just pay minimum wage with tips on top like everywhere else in the world?

 

I think she stated in a prior post that everything has to be reported to the IRS, so I imagine that that is how it's regulated. Aside from the fact that I was brought up to be honest, the fear of the feds coming after me would be enough to keep me honest. Also, I bet that if you worked it out, you probably make less money if you just get minimum wage, so it's probably in your best interest to report your tips. I think giving the employees--and employers--the benefit of the doubt is the way to go if we don't know the process ourselves.

[IWORK2CRUISE]

I agree, that's why I NEVER assume. I've just never understood that whole point of this whole skipping-dinner-so-you-don't-tip thing! Just unreal.

 

I actually would love if there was a tip box in the WJ. I often think the service in the WJ is better than in the MDR, but i know that is another thread on it's own!

 

I'm in Madison. It's so cold!

On our last 2 RCCL cruises we did MTD so all tips were prepaid. Because of that (and because we didn't use the WJ for dinner as much as we have on some cruises) I was not looking for a tip box in the WJ but know that I have seen them (and contributed) on some ships.

[tbear2762]

After having taken more than twenty cruises, I have come to the conclusion that a standard tip included in the fare would save a lot of headaches for cruisers and heartaches for crew. I admit on our first cruise I gadn't the foggiest notion of what to tip and who to tip.

 

Even RCI's gidelines don't help much because they are "suggestions." I didn't know if the "understanding" was that their guidelines were baseline tips only and that you were expected to tip more and if so how much?

 

I was even more confused when I discovered CC here and learned some folks tip FAR MORE than the guidelines, tip room stewards immediately on the first day and every few days thereafter and conceirges get huge tips from some. So if we tip more, how much, how often. Are we insulting or flattering our stewards and waiters??

 

I really don't know. A standard built in fee would be ever so helpful. But then I have read that crew on ships with standard built-in tips, are less responsive and don't try as hard to please, so I don't know what is the best way to go. I do know I HATE the whole not knowing how much is actually the going rate for tips. It can be awkward and frustrating.

 

I just got back from a NCL cruise and I can tell you that is most correct. Never on a RCCL ship would my tea glass be completely empty with me searching for my waiter to get more yet on NCL it was a common occurance. We had fries with steak one night. Our plates were set in front of us and the server promptly disappeared. Needless to say by the time he returned to see if all was ok the fries were cold yet we still had no ketchup. They know they will get their tip no matter what as it is a "service charge" split equally among all workers. So the good ones get slighted and the bad ones get rewarded. I hope RCCL never goes there.

[tbear2762]

Hi, I really like your post because there is no snarky tones or insults. You asked - I'll try to explain the system in the US from someone that worked a tipped postition in a restaurant.

First, the tipped employee pays taxes on the tips they receive. The IRS assumes we make a certain percentage in tips - I think it's 8% but that may have changed. It is true that some people may try to not claim their cash tips but in the end that just makes their reportable income lower (dashing chances of getting car loans, mortgages and what not) and thus is not a good practice. We also get a lower than minimum wage hourly rate - about $3.50 where I've worked, so we get a check every week with our hourly pay and taxes are taken out of that, as well, along with insurance if it is provided.

Here in the U.S. there are many restauants and it is a difficult business to make money in with all of the overhead costs. The tipping system works so well because having the employer pay a less than minimum wage to servers means that the savings is passed along to the diner in the total check cost. Then, the diner pays the server directly for their service, based on performance. It's not just 'whatever I want to give', we do have a very clear structure here of 15% for average service, 18% for good service and 20% for very good service with wiggle room in different states/economic areas. By paying only a portion of the servers pay, the restaurant owner saves a bit on payroll, the diner gets a less expensive menu and is directly in control of the servers pay. Both win. Think of it as the server being a sub contractor.

Now, from the server angle, it's also a win but of course, like any job, has its ups and downs. If you live in a economically challenged place, serving is obviously not going to be a way to make a living. In the metro areas, it's definetly a good alternative to minimum wage jobs. See, even if the restaurant is slow or you have people only tipping 10% or something, servers are protected by a law that says if you don't make at least minimum wage with the total of the reduced wage per hour + tips, then the employer must supplement your pay per hour to bring it up to minimum wage. I've never in my life seen any server make less or even at minimum wage but it's nice to know that if something happened, you will at least make minimum wage. So for all that worry about the US servers 'living on only a couple of dollars an hour' don't worry! We get minimum wage regardless! The difference between here and other countries is that we have the opportunity to make MORE than minimum wage - that's not the case in other places where serving pays a flat fee per hour. You'll never make more - may as well be a cashier at Walmart - its way less work!:) This way, the better you perform, for the most part, the more money you make. It's a great tool.

Also, a note on service. I never felt demeaned by providing the best service I could and making people feel special. Yes, of course I was hoping it would reflect in my tip, but I also just have good work ethic and like making people feel special when they are out spending their hard earned money.

 

Having a mother who waited tables most of her life I can also say that not reporting tips hurts in another way. You didn't used to pay taxes on tips so it was not reported as income to the IRS or social security. When time comes to retire your social security benefit (check) is directly perportional to your taxable earnings. So needless to say when that time came mom didn't even draw enough to pay for her home much less food and all the other things one must pay for to live. I never knew until tonight that other places don't tip. That is good to know for when I travel there.

[tbear2762]

You, my dear, would receive at least 20% from me. In the 18 years since I became a "Friend of Bill" I tip for service and attitude not to look like a big shot.

 

I may be slow but what is a friend of Bill. I saw that on the freestyle daily and thought it was a family reunion.

[tbear2762]

Just for knowledge sake,,,how is this regulated? If I tip $10.00 but the server only reports $1.00, then the employer is reponsible for the rest. Sounds like a ton of trust is needed between employer and employee. Why not just pay minimum wage with tips on top like everywhere else in the world?

 

If the servers collectively have not reported 10% of the resturants tabs then the IRS destributes it among the servers.

[PhoenixCruiser]

I may be slow but what is a friend of Bill. I saw that on the freestyle daily and thought it was a family reunion.

 

Annette, Bill started AA - Alcoholic Anonymous. Most cruise lines have Friends of Bill meetings.

 

###

[tbear2762]

Annette, Bill started AA - Alcoholic Anonymous. Most cruise lines have Friends of Bill meetings.

 

###

 

Thank you I learn something everyday. I also learned about friends of Dorothy on this last cruise.

[talosian]

I very much dislike the idea of calling something a "gratuity" (something given out of gratitude) when it is mandatory.

 

If RCI includes a mandatory gratuity, I will ask it be removed and tip as I deem appropriate; it it is designated as a "service charge," I will ask for specifics of what it is for.

 

I believe it should be up to the passenger to reward service as he/she sees fit.

[MMastell]

I just got back from a NCL cruise and I can tell you that is most correct. Never on a RCCL ship would my tea glass be completely empty with me searching for my waiter to get more yet on NCL it was a common occurrence. We had fries with steak one night. Our plates were set in front of us and the server promptly disappeared. Needless to say by the time he returned to see if all was ok the fries were cold yet we still had no ketchup. They know they will get their tip no matter what as it is a "service charge" split equally among all workers. So the good ones get slighted and the bad ones get rewarded. I hope RCCL never goes there.

 

I have had just the opposite experience. The worst service I have had on any cruise line has been on Royal Caribbean.

Specifically on Explorer of the Seas and Serenade of the Seas. The dining room staff were inattentive, sloppy and in one instance downright rude when responding to simple requests, such as water and butter for bread. It took complaints to the Maitre'd to at least get adequate service. I have cruised NCL five times in the last 30 months and the service has been excellent.

 

I believe that gratuities have little to do with service. The level of experience, the individual server, the management and the attitude of the guest have more impact on service than the gratuity.

 

Take care,

Mike

[jlocole]

I recently watched a TV show about cruise ships. It said the average worker on board earn $2500.00 a month, tax free, free food and (small) accomodations included. As most of the workers are from poorer countries they think this wage is fine and are able to send $$$ home to help out their families. $2500 tax free is not too bad, and the gratuities just top that off.

 

North Americans over tip in general. Go to an all-inclusive vacation that states "includes tips" and you will still see people tiping on every drink because they want to. Let the people who can enjoy overtipping do so.

[FanofFlorida]

Just off NCL last month and they add the "service charge" to the account- you have to have the manually remove it and fill out a form explaining the reason. They encouraged tipping as well as appropriate.

 

I had a very difficult time with this concept as it became apparent in my research beforehand that the fees WERE the wages for certain employees. Rather than take the responsibility as 'company' for a loss due to poor service, they punish the entire 'service fee pool' when fees are reduced. Seriously, it didnt make any sense... why not just include the fees as part of the cruise cost. The fees pushed the cost of the cruise almost $300 for our family. It is almost a bait and switch. If they need the money to pay the crew, then just charge for it upfront, rather than apply some type of emotional extortion (ok that was a bit of an overstatement, but its just irritating)

[Aquahound]

I just read a thread on another board where someone claimed to have done the automatic gratuities on RCI and had no vouchers at the end to hand out. They insisted this is the way RCI does it.

 

How is this done? Since having it available, I have always added the gratuities to my account, but have always gotten the paper vouchers at the end to hand out?

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I just read a thread on another board where someone claimed to have done the automatic gratuities on RCI and had no vouchers at the end to hand out. They insisted this is the way RCI does it.

 

How is this done? Since having it available, I have always added the gratuities to my account, but have always gotten the paper vouchers at the end to hand out?

 

Doesnt sound right to me. We were on the Navigator last month and had prepaid gats.

 

We got vouchers. Gave the cabin steward his and trashed the rest.

 

Bill

[tbear2762]

I recently watched a TV show about cruise ships. It said the average worker on board earn $2500.00 a month, tax free, free food and (small) accomodations included. As most of the workers are from poorer countries they think this wage is fine and are able to send $$$ home to help out their families. $2500 tax free is not too bad, and the gratuities just top that off.

 

North Americans over tip in general. Go to an all-inclusive vacation that states "includes tips" and you will still see people tiping on every drink because they want to. Let the people who can enjoy overtipping do so.

 

On our recent cruise we had an informal Q&A with the CD and his asstiant. They said that indeed those from other countries are paid tax free but those Americans working on board do have to pay taxes.

[tbear2762]

Just off NCL last month and they add the "service charge" to the account- you have to have the manually remove it and fill out a form explaining the reason. They encouraged tipping as well as appropriate.

 

I had a very difficult time with this concept as it became apparent in my research beforehand that the fees WERE the wages for certain employees. Rather than take the responsibility as 'company' for a loss due to poor service, they punish the entire 'service fee pool' when fees are reduced. Seriously, it didnt make any sense... why not just include the fees as part of the cruise cost. The fees pushed the cost of the cruise almost $300 for our family. It is almost a bait and switch. If they need the money to pay the crew, then just charge for it upfront, rather than apply some type of emotional extortion (ok that was a bit of an overstatement, but its just irritating)

 

Because they don't want to list it as revenue as it truly is. Their way around a loop hole. I am with you I want to hand out my envelopes so that I know my money went where I wanted it to not some slacker that is floating on that waiter that is busting his behind to earn tips for his good service.