Breaking News !! RCCL to review Gratuities

[shaggyofwv]

After having taken more than twenty cruises, I have come to the conclusion that a standard tip included in the fare would save a lot of headaches for cruisers and heartaches for crew. I admit on our first cruise I gadn't the foggiest notion of what to tip and who to tip.

 

 

 

Then it really isn't a "tip" anymore, is it? A tip, or gratuity if you prefer, is supposed to be voluntary, which it cannot be if it is required.

 

Mandatory tipping is an oxymoron.

[above sea level cruiser]

This would be great. The totally honest approach would be for RCCL to pay the staff the expected wage, subject themselves to minimum wage rules, taxation etc and build that into the pricing. The managers would then be responsible for ensuring that the staff perform properly, without having to grovel for bribes or focus on the big tippers. It also means that servers do not get punished for problems in the kitchen which are not their fault, and the rewards are shared properly

 

The slightly more tiresome approach (but still better than the present system) would be to impose a compulsory "tipping surcharge" to our bills so that we all know (almost) up front what the cost will be.

 

In practice, even if they do absorb tips in some way, they will probably still "offer" passengers the opportunity to leave additional tips "for outstanding service" as they do with bar bills currently on ex-Uk cruises (hiding the fact that the 15% service is now built in to the prices).

This means that we will end up in a similar confused situation "enflamed" by posts on this forum from both sides of the Great Tipping Divide

"you must tip in order to reward hardworking staff on low wages"

"I will only tip people I choose to tip"

 

Unionized cruse ship staff. :D:D:D You blokes would then complain about the $

[besjoux]

I have noticed a signficant decline in service since the auto tipping was added to Carnival. When on RC I saw MUCH better service than I have seen on Carnival and HA. I attribute a lot of this to the tipping.

 

Does anyone else have a similar experience?

[The_Big_M]

I believe that this is in fact what is being done because your comments are not dissimilar to many that have been posted by our friends from the UK. Of coruse, you'll likely see a higher price compared to US rates, but if that's the way you want it, I think RCI will be pleased to oblige. They will also have to restrict you to booking with a UK-based travel agency to be sure that you have paid your share, but that's fair, isn't it?

 

Indeed most of that would be.

 

The only problem is generalising that that view applies to all UK (and other part of the world) cruisers and therefore applying a booking restriction to their country.

[spongerob]

Can't have it both ways, though. The loudest voices carry the day, and if this site and the lines at the passenger services desk are any indication, people in the UK would rather have the costs included in the fare.

 

Restrictions to trade are the reality.

[brfan]

I have noticed a signficant decline in service since the auto tipping was added to Carnival. When on RC I saw MUCH better service than I have seen on Carnival and HA. I attribute a lot of this to the tipping.

 

Does anyone else have a similar experience?

 

Can you give examples to what you mean by declining service? I believe cruise lines are also cutting back and therefore waitstaff and cabin stewards have more tables/rooms that before and have additional duties. Could this be the reason for the decline in service you are talking about?

[steponboard]

Given that the suggested tip is $3.50 a day for the cabin steward and figure they are working around 20 cabins that is only $70 a day. Given that most of them put in about 10+ hours a day $7 an hour doesn't sound that outrageous.

 

 

Hmmm usually two people per cabin so your math needs to be doubled.

[everyoneneedsavacation]

Re: Tipping...

 

Please... I believe that most UK passengers DO know if gratuities are included or not, lets be for real. Even I know the difference and I have never been overseas!

 

Cruise lines traditionally pay the staff such a meager amount.

 

They should just make a mandatory tipping policy,included with the price of the cruise, but tips need to go directly to the servers. You see, if the money goes to the Cruise line, they just pay the staff less.

For instance: There is a salon where I live in Maryland/DC area that adds 17.5% gratuity for service, but the staff never sees it. The staff gets a fixed salary. -Same goes for Catering at hotels/banquet halls. Notice the part in your contract that states the gratuity? Those servers never see it either. They too get an hourly wage -period. This is not right to do to workers.

 

I worked in the Hotel industry for years. It is true. Clients have no idea that this is happening.

 

Usually, cruise lines get their workers from countries that pay poor wages. The workers are only too happy to work on the ship to get more than their country pays, but it is far less than what we Americans consider a "living wage".

 

I was also told by a staffer on a Royal Caribbean Ship, that a "room & board" fee was taken out of their paycheck as well!

 

Please consider the above before "stiffing" the cruise staff with an attitude such as: "the cruise line should be responsible for paying their staff fairly".

 

I recently ate at a restaurant that had this statement, I like it, and I think it was a good one:

 

"Dear Guests: We add an 18% Gratuity to all checks payable to your server, because we pride ourselves with excellent food and great service. The truth is, that we just can't keep good wait staff without proper tipping. If you feel your server doesn't deserve this gratuity, I want to know and promise to personally make things right. Guests that wish to tip more than 18%, of course, are certainly welcome to do so.

Thank you for your patronage, and hope to see you again soon"

Signed,

 

_____________

Restaurant Owner

[cruisecrasy]

Re: Tipping...

 

Please... I believe that most UK passengers DO know if gratuities are included or not, lets be for real. Even I know the difference and I have never been overseas!

 

Cruise lines traditionally pay the staff such a meager amount.

 

They should just make a mandatory tipping policy,included with the price of the cruise, but tips need to go directly to the servers. You see, if the money goes to the Cruise line, they just pay the staff less.

For instance: There is a salon where I live in Maryland/DC area that adds 17.5% gratuity for service, but the staff never sees it. The staff gets a fixed salary. -Same goes for Catering at hotels/banquet halls. Notice the part in your contract that states the gratuity? Those servers never see it either. They too get an hourly wage -period. This is not right to do to workers.

 

I worked in the Hotel industry for years. It is true. Clients have no idea that this is happening.

 

Usually, cruise lines get their workers from countries that pay poor wages. The workers are only too happy to work on the ship to get more than their country pays, but it is far less than what we Americans consider a "living wage".

 

I was also told by a staffer on a Royal Caribbean Ship, that a "room & board" fee was taken out of their paycheck as well!

 

Please consider the above before "stiffing" the cruise staff with an attitude such as: "the cruise line should be responsible for paying their staff fairly".

 

I recently ate at a restaurant that had this statement, I like it, and I think it was a good one:

 

"Dear Guests: We add an 18% Gratuity to all checks payable to your server, because we pride ourselves with excellent food and great service. The truth is, that we just can't keep good wait staff without proper tipping. If you feel your server doesn't deserve this gratuity, I want to know and promise to personally make things right. Guests that wish to tip more than 18%, of course, are certainly welcome to do so.

Thank you for your patronage, and hope to see you again soon"

Signed,

 

_____________

Restaurant Owner

 

How exactly do u know this restaurants tips actually do go to your server any more than u know that a salon, hotels & banquet halls tips charged do not?

 

Don't be too quick to believe a 'staffer' as they have been known to try & increase the size of their tips by getting sympathy which is what that one was doing when u were told that they pay for their room & board - this is not true...

Cruiselines wldn't keep the tips - staff members aren't stupid and know what is being done and wld start 'working to rule' being sullen & even rude to pax and might even quit because being hospitality trained they cld apply to work elsewhere or even with another cruiseline (they do raid each other for good staff) - exactly what no cruiseline wants! It costs a lot to train their staff and they want to keep them!!

 

Folks want low fares...are u willing to pay much, much higher fares so they can pay their staff closer to American wages? Amazing there is so much commenting about how poorly some folks are paid by others who want cheap goods & vacations!

 

Employees from other countries make wages much above the amts (if they cld even get a job) that they cld earn in their own countries and yes, while below American wages so are their expenses in those countries! Its all relative!

 

Have happy cruisin'!

[mochuck]

The reason other countries don't tip is because staff in those countries are paid a proper wage. Perhaps RCI should try that novel idea. Tipping is also a black market economy.

[Lynnees]

Re: Tipping...

 

Please... I believe that most UK passengers DO know if gratuities are included or not, lets be for real. Even I know the difference and I have never been overseas!

 

Please don't try to speak for others when you haven't even visited the country.

 

Cruise lines traditionally pay the staff such a meager amount.

 

They should just make a mandatory tipping policy,included with the price of the cruise, but tips need to go directly to the servers. You see, if the money goes to the Cruise line, they just pay the staff less.

For instance: There is a salon where I live in Maryland/DC area that adds 17.5% gratuity for service, but the staff never sees it. The staff gets a fixed salary. -Same goes for Catering at hotels/banquet halls. Notice the part in your contract that states the gratuity? Those servers never see it either. They too get an hourly wage -period. This is not right to do to workers.

 

I worked in the Hotel industry for years. It is true. Clients have no idea that this is happening.

 

Usually, cruise lines get their workers from countries that pay poor wages. The workers are only too happy to work on the ship to get more than their country pays, but it is far less than what we Americans consider a "living wage".

 

I was also told by a staffer on a Royal Caribbean Ship, that a "room & board" fee was taken out of their paycheck as well!

 

Please consider the above before "stiffing" the cruise staff with an attitude such as: "the cruise line should be responsible for paying their staff fairly".

 

I recently ate at a restaurant that had this statement, I like it, and I think it was a good one:

 

"Dear Guests: We add an 18% Gratuity to all checks payable to your server, because we pride ourselves with excellent food and great service. The truth is, that we just can't keep good wait staff without proper tipping. If you feel your server doesn't deserve this gratuity, I want to know and promise to personally make things right. Guests that wish to tip more than 18%, of course, are certainly welcome to do so.

Thank you for your patronage, and hope to see you again soon"

Signed,

 

_____________

Restaurant Owner What utter tripe. This is management trying to guilt trip patrons.

 

If they make gratuities mandatory then it is not gratuitites or tips if you will. It is a service charge made because they won't pay their staff a decent wage. No more - no less.

 

It is my choice when I give someone a gratuity and all the crap trap that is said is not going to tell me otherwise. I have never given less than the suggested amount however I have redistributed it because of lousy service and I will continue to do so.

[luckyprincess]

If they make gratuities mandatory then it is not gratuitites or tips if you will. It is a service charge made because they won't pay their staff a decent wage. No more - no less.

 

It is my choice when I give someone a gratuity and all the crap trap that is said is not going to tell me otherwise. I have never given less than the suggested amount however I have redistributed it because of lousy service and I will continue to do so.

 

Lynees, with all due respect, didn't you just post at me on the page before that I keep posting from the same perspective and don't look at it from any other way and yada yada yada? Well,,,,same thing applies. You have said 'it's a personal choice' over and over. You also say you never gave less than the suggested amount but have redistributed it :confused: The suggested amount is per employee, so if you gave less to one and more to the other than yes, that was indeed giving less than suggested.

Regardless, though, I have found in life that those going into something looking for problems so they can redistribute, for example, usually find them. I've never had bad service on a ship - never had amazing service either. But lousy service? I do hope you talked with management about it.

And mandatory gratuities aren't there because they won't pay staff a decent wage. They do pay a decent wage when the system is followed, as is seen in EVERY other ship except this particular one reported by the world media. Doesn't that tell people anything at all? That perhaps the problem isn't with the tipping pay structure on RCCL, but with the guests on the one (out of the entire fleet) ship with the problem? I think it's obvious, but maybe I'm only seeing it from my perspective.:) If they make grats mandatory for the offending guests then it is because they simply had to in order to get them to pay for the service they used while on board. No more or no less. IMHO.

[Lynnees]

Lynees, with all due respect, didn't you just post at me on the page before that I keep posting from the same perspective and don't look at it from any other way and yada yada yada? Well,,,,same thing applies. You have said 'it's a personal choice' over and over. You also say you never gave less than the suggested amount but have redistributed it :confused: The suggested amount is per employee, so if you gave less to one and more to the other than yes, that was indeed giving less than suggested.

 

You are correct - I have given less to one person and more to another. I will not reward bad service.

Regardless, though, I have found in life that those going into something looking for problems so they can redistribute, for example, usually find them. I've never had bad service on a ship - never had amazing service either. But lousy service? I do hope you talked with management about it.

And mandatory gratuities aren't there because they won't pay staff a decent wage. They do pay a decent wage they absolutely do not pay a decent wage - if they did we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. when the system is followed, as is seen in EVERY other ship except this particular one reported by the world media. Doesn't that tell people anything at all? That perhaps the problem isn't with the tipping pay structure on RCCL, but with the guests on the one (out of the entire fleet) ship with the problem? I think it's obvious, but maybe I'm only seeing it from my perspective.:) If they make grats mandatory for the offending guests then it is because they simply had to in order to get them to pay for the service they used while on board. No more or no less. IMHO.

 

Everyone must make their own decision on gratuities. Some people give none others will go over the top. Most will stay in the middle and give the recommend amount.

 

Then there are those, like me, who will give to those who they feel have actually earned it.

 

Luckily this board only represents about 1% of the sailing public so they won't know how much they are berated for not giving gratuities none, recommended or over the top.

[marci22]

lucky just give up, LOTS (but not all) of people from Europe do not like to tip because they don't understand it and even if you explain it they still don't want to understand it.

 

If Royal did pay a "living wage" as many say, your cruise fare would just go up a corresponding amount, probably by $10pp per day is my guess. At least this way you do have the option of potentially witholding or adjusting your tips if someone gives awful service (which I have never had on any cruise ship but I agree it may happen on occasion).

 

Those who remove their tips because they think it's Royal's problem and not theirs are only penalizing those who least deserve it.

[heatherb1958]

I would like to add what we witnessed recently on a B2B2B on Independence . We were on the ship for 30 nights, first cruise round trip from Southampton , second cruise Transatlantic from Southampton to Fort Lauderdale and final cruise round trip from Fort Lauderdale.

 

At night we always eat in the Windjammer for all meals and reward service accordingly. The first evening of the first cruise we sat by chance at the station where the assistant waiter remembered us from a previous sailing, he looked after us well and we reciprocated, we also put a gratuity on the final night in the drop box.The demographic on that sailing was probably 90% British.

 

The second sailing we knew our assistant waiter was back in the MDR so we changed area for a different view. No particular member of staff went above and beyond their basic duties so we put a gratuity in the drop box on the last night. Demographic on sailing - Americans and British held the majority with an even split, the others 'rest of the world' :)

 

Third sailing - The Windjammer was the busiest on this sailing so crew had to work harder in some areas. We put a gratuity in the drop box. Demographic- 95% American, only 250 British onboard.

 

 

Each sailing was full , on which sailing do you think had the fullest gratuity drop box in the Windjammer on the final night of the cruise? It made me proud to be British , it was the first one , the box was practically stuffed with dollars and envelopes.

When we left the Windjammer on the last night of our 30 night epic sailing on Independence we were embarrassed , the gratuity box was practically empty. This was a sailing full to capacity with 95% Americans onboard who got the cruise for a steal , stuffed themselves stupid for 6 nights and then didn't leave a tip . If we hadn't seen it for ourselves we wouldn't have believed it. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.

I am off to bed now so flame all you want:D:p

[Brit-Cruiser]

I would like to add what we witnessed recently on a B2B2B on Independence . We were on the ship for 30 nights, first cruise round trip from Southampton , second cruise Transatlantic from Southampton to Fort Lauderdale and final cruise round trip from Fort Lauderdale.

 

At night we always eat in the Windjammer for all meals and reward service accordingly. The first evening of the first cruise we sat by chance at the station where the assistant waiter remembered us from a previous sailing, he looked after us well and we reciprocated, we also put a gratuity on the final night in the drop box.The demographic on that sailing was probably 90% British.

 

The second sailing we knew our assistant waiter was back in the MDR so we changed area for a different view. No particular member of staff went above and beyond their basic duties so we put a gratuity in the drop box on the last night. Demographic on sailing - Americans and British held the majority with an even split, the others 'rest of the world' :)

 

Third sailing - The Windjammer was the busiest on this sailing so crew had to work harder in some areas. We put a gratuity in the drop box. Demographic- 95% American, only 250 British onboard.

 

 

Each sailing was full , on which sailing do you think had the fullest gratuity drop box in the Windjammer on the final night of the cruise? It made me proud to be British , it was the first one , the box was practically stuffed with dollars and envelopes.

When we left the Windjammer on the last night of our 30 night epic sailing on Independence we were embarrassed , the gratuity box was practically empty. This was a sailing full to capacity with 95% Americans onboard who got the cruise for a steal , stuffed themselves stupid for 6 nights and then didn't leave a tip . If we hadn't seen it for ourselves we wouldn't have believed it. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.

I am off to bed now so flame all you want:D:p

 

Well said Heather.....I would like to add that we LOVE going to the MDR on the last night of a cruise, it is so quiet. This seems to be because on the last 4 cruises we have been on, at least 25% of the passengers that choose to eat there all cruise eat in the Windjammer on the last night - tip night....very mysterious!:rolleyes: On our last cruise on 7 Dec, less than 5% of the passengers were of non-us origin, so this is just not an issue about Europeans not tipping - RCI need to either add it into the price, or accept that some people will not tip, regardless of their nationality.

[bluegirlum]

Well said Heather.....I would like to add that we LOVE going to the MDR on the last night of a cruise, it is so quiet. This seems to be because on the last 4 cruises we have been on, at least 25% of the passengers that choose to eat there all cruise eat in the Windjammer on the last night - tip night....very mysterious!:rolleyes: On our last cruise on 7 Dec, less than 5% of the passengers were of non-us origin, so this is just not an issue about Europeans not tipping - RCI need to either add it into the price, or accept that some people will not tip, regardless of their nationality.

 

Again, what is the deal with assuming that just because you don't go to the MDR on the last night, you don't tip? No one has been able to explain this to me. Can you? Just because you don't see me give the tip in person doesn't mean I didn't tip. Where are people getting this information from? I'm really genuinely curious.

[Morecruisesplz]

Ok, I understand where you are coming from. I'll send you some cupcakes. :) And I know where Fred/MD is--sorry!

 

Red velvet? Yum! (No problem about the Fred... everyone does it so I just like to sign off everyone once in awhile with why that's my signature here. CC has an odd way of abbreviating! My real name is Merle but I started using Ed at Starbucks - I'm addicted - because none of the kids there can either spell or pronounce Merle. Then my grandkids have to say "Grandpa, they are talking to you" when they ask me about my drink because I don't recognize Ed. Fred and Ed are pretty close so maybe it's close enough!)

 

When's your next cruise? 20 days can not come soon enough for me! And our grandsons are going on that one. 4 and 22 months!

[Brit-Cruiser]

Again, what is the deal with assuming that just because you don't go to the MDR on the last night, you don't tip? No one has been able to explain this to me. Can you? Just because you don't see me give the tip in person doesn't mean I didn't tip. Where are people getting this information from? I'm really genuinely curious.

 

 

We got our info, from an American couple in 2006 - on their 18th cruise....they advised us not to go into the MDR on the last night if we didn't want to leave a tip - they said it had saved them enough money over the years to do at least 2 more cruises than if they had left tips on their previous ones.

[bluegirlum]

Red velvet? Yum! (No problem about the Fred... everyone does it so I just like to sign off everyone once in awhile with why that's my signature here. CC has an odd way of abbreviating! My real name is Merle but I started using Ed at Starbucks - I'm addicted - because none of the kids there can either spell or pronounce Merle. Then my grandkids have to say "Grandpa, they are talking to you" when they ask me about my drink because I don't recognize Ed. Fred and Ed are pretty close so maybe it's close enough!)

 

When's your next cruise? 20 days can not come soon enough for me! And our grandsons are going on that one. 4 and 22 months!

 

Red velvet--of course! Have a wonderful time on your cruise. I'm very jealous. We're actually thinking of Navigator as our next ship, so I'll be interested to hear how it is. Nice that your grandsons are coming along. I bet it will be a treat for everyone!

 

As for the name, I also go by a nickname and it confuses everyone--including me sometimes too! :)

[bluegirlum]

We got our info, from an American couple in 2006 - on their 18th cruise....they advised us not to go into the MDR on the last night if we didn't want to leave a tip - they said it had saved them enough money over the years to do at least 2 more cruises than if they had left tips on their previous ones.

 

So from one American couple 3 years ago, you make this grand assumption about that vast majority of us? Wow. That's like saying that because the one British person I met had bad teeth, you all do. Right?

 

Are you serious?

 

I'm sorry, I know that some people do that, and it's terrible, but you can't lump us all together for one stupid couple's comment from 3 years ago.

[negc]

We got our info, from an American couple in 2006 - on their 18th cruise....they advised us not to go into the MDR on the last night if we didn't want to leave a tip - they said it had saved them enough money over the years to do at least 2 more cruises than if they had left tips on their previous ones.

 

Wow, even with 17 previous cruises it is hard to see how their unpaid tips could have paid for two more cruises but, even if they did, are such people ones you would want to emulate. I guess you shouldn't believe everything you are told but to finance a cruise by cheating the hard working staff out of their well earned tip income is at the very least unseemly.:rolleyes: I personally don't believe that there are that many cruisers who begrudge the staff their tips so much that they would consciously stiff them.

[Brit-Cruiser]

So from one American couple 3 years ago, you make this grand assumption about that vast majority of us? Wow. That's like saying that because the one British person I met had bad teeth, you all do. Right?

 

Are you serious?

 

I'm sorry, I know that some people do that, and it's terrible, but you can't lump us all together for one stupid couple's comment from 3 years ago.

 

You asked where I got the basis for my info from - I told you, not for any reaction, but simply because you asked me. Nationality is no indication of whether someone will tip or not. It annoys both myself & my DH, when others post comments about Europeans "not understanding" about tipping - I am not the one putting people under the same umbrella - I am simply pointing out that just the same as not all Europeans DON'T tip, not all Americans DO tip. Simple as that.

[negc]

The reason other countries don't tip is because staff in those countries are paid a proper wage. Perhaps RCI should try that novel idea. Tipping is also a black market economy.

 

Perhaps you should also lobby Congress and your state legislatures which have established different (lower) minimum wage amounts for such workers in land based establishments expecting the tips to make up the difference, to adopt your 'novel' idea. The arguments about tipping has been around longer than these boards. Don't expect things to change in the near future but if they do, expect that tips will become mandatory and added to your account or included in your fare. However the tips are provided to the workstaff, you can be sure that you will be the one who ends up paying them.

[bluegirlum]

You asked where I got the basis for my info from - I told you, not for any reaction, but simply because you asked me. Nationality is no indication of whether someone will tip or not. It annoys both myself & my DH, when others post comments about Europeans "not understanding" about tipping - I am not the one putting people under the same umbrella - I am simply pointing out that just the same as not all Europeans DON'T tip, not all Americans DO tip. Simple as that.

 

Actually, you said this before:

 

"This seems to be because on the last 4 cruises we have been on, at least 25% of the passengers that choose to eat there all cruise eat in the Windjammer on the last night - tip night....very mysterious! On our last cruise on 7 Dec, less than 5% of the passengers were of non-us origin, so this is just not an issue about Europeans not tipping -"

 

I still don't get how one couple telling you that they don't tip leads to this 25% absence equally us all not tipping. The logic isn't there. I know that not all Americans tip. I don't dispute that at all.