Trying to pin down what went wrong

[Aunty Pat]

Princes is a premium cruise line and spends more on food than NCL a mass market line.

Princes & Carnival both have traditional dining which also comes with a better level of service from your wait staff that gets to know your likes and dislikes during the cruise. They also have a better opportunity to time their service because with free style they never know how or when they are going to be busy so you’re more likely to run into long waits for a table.

The mass market & premium cruise lines in general have cut back on their food budgets because of their deeply discounted fares. In 1982 a 7 day cruise in the least expensive inside cabin on NCL was selling for $699/person in the low season. They have to make up for the low fares somewhere. It has been years since I’ve seen a lavish mid-night buffet. Most frequent cruise passengers just don’t go to them. The closet thing I’ve seen to one is on my recent Crystal cruise when they had a special grand buffet lunch set up in the main lobby with towers of unlimited lobster & shrimp, caviar appetizers, chocolate fountains, etc. But that cruise cost about 5 times what an NCL cruise does.

As a general rule the less expensive the cruise line the more nickel & diming by pushing of drinks, bingo games, spa services, shore excursions, fees for specialty restaurants, etc.

Aunty Pat

 

Barefoot Windjammer - Phantom ‘81

K&D German Rhine Line ‘84

NCL - Norway ’85, Pride of America ’05, Southward ’87, Star ’97 & ‘05, Starward ’92, Sun ’02 & Windward ’93

RCC - Song of America ‘89

American Hawaiian - Independence ‘98

HAL - Volendam ’99, Noordam ’06, Oosterdam ’07 & ‘09, Statendam ’02 & ‘08, Prinsendam ’03 & ’06, & Zuiderdam ’04, ’06 & ’07, Westerdam ‘09

Carnival - Spirit ‘05

Celebrity – Summit ‘05

Cruise West - Yorktown Clipper ‘06

Princess - Golden Princess ‘07

A & K - East Queen ‘07

Cunard - QM2 ’08

Crystal – Serenity ‘09

Pending Cruises:

Oceania – Insignia, June 17, 2010

[kitty9]

OK, that's a third vote for NCL being the root cause.

 

That's what I'm trying to determine. I don't want to forego future NCL cruises if that's not the cause. Again, for all I know, all freestyle cruises on all lines - or all cruises out of New York - are like this. NCL out of Florida might be awesome.

 

Why would you think that a cruise out of Florida would be any different? That makes absolutely no sense. Why would a city of departure make any difference?

 

I've cruised out of many ports, on the same ship and never saw a difference in food just because of where the ship departs. Like I said, every cruise line has their own provisions providers, and every ship of the line is provisioned the same---doesn't make any difference where the ship is docked. I've cruised Carnival out of NYC and Florida and saw no difference in the food or service. And I cruised NCL out of NYC and Florida and it was the same old, same old---bad food and service and it didn't matter diddly squat where the cruise originated.

 

Just take it for what it's worth, NCL is just known for not having good food or service, period, and the port of departure has absolutely no bearing whatsoever.

[RetireeWannabee]

...But then we get there and there's a 30-40 minute wait. I didn't twig to the manipulation until I saw that the buzzer we were carrying had the 2-for-1 offer at the nearest bar permanently emblazoned right on it - i.e this forced wait is not a hiccup in their process, this is standard procedure.

 

This may be the same on all Freestryle cruise, regardless of cruise line. I don't know. I'd like to find out. It would mean the difference between avoiding only Freestyle cruises versus avoiding only NCL cruises.

 

Yep, I'm with you on that. I have never considered sailing them because they haven't had what I wanted, but this kind of practice cements my belief that they aren't for me.

[iheartbda]

Princes is a premium cruise line and spends more on food than NCL a mass market line.

Really? I've never seen Princess listed as a premium line.

 

Princes & Carnival both have traditional dining which also comes with a better level of service from your wait staff that gets to know your likes and dislikes during the cruise. They also have a better opportunity to time their service because with free style they never know how or when they are going to be busy so you’re more likely to run into long waits for a table.

I don't see any recent cruises on NCL in you siggie so I'm not sure how you can address freestyle dining like you do. I think they have a better handle on it than you may think.;) For the record, we prefer traditional dining.:)

 

The mass market & premium cruise lines in general have cut back on their food budgets because of their deeply discounted fares. In 1982 a 7 day cruise in the least expensive inside cabin on NCL was selling for $699/person in the low season. They have to make up for the low fares somewhere. It has been years since I’ve seen a lavish mid-night buffet. Most frequent cruise passengers just don’t go to them.

Totally agree.

The closet thing I’ve seen to one is on my recent Crystal cruise when they had a special grand buffet lunch set up in the main lobby with towers of unlimited lobster & shrimp, caviar appetizers, chocolate fountains, etc. But that cruise cost about 5 times what an NCL cruise does.

You're right....no comparison there.;)

 

As a general rule the less expensive the cruise line the more nickel & diming by pushing of drinks, bingo games, spa services, shore excursions, fees for specialty restaurants, etc.

That's a pretty broad brush. We have just as many cruises on a premium line as one of the mass market lines and I never noticed proportionately more pushing of drinks, etc. etc.

 

Aunty Pat

 

 

Barefoot Windjammer - Phantom ‘81

K&D German Rhine Line ‘84

NCL - Norway ’85, Pride of America ’05, Southward ’87, Star ’97 & ‘05, Starward ’92, Sun ’02 & Windward ’93

RCC - Song of America ‘89

American Hawaiian - Independence ‘98

HAL - Volendam ’99, Noordam ’06, Oosterdam ’07 & ‘09, Statendam ’02 & ‘08, Prinsendam ’03 & ’06, & Zuiderdam ’04, ’06 & ’07, Westerdam ‘09

Carnival - Spirit ‘05

Celebrity – Summit ‘05

Cruise West - Yorktown Clipper ‘06

Princess - Golden Princess ‘07

A & K - East Queen ‘07

Cunard - QM2 ’08

Crystal – Serenity ‘09

Pending Cruises:

Oceania – Insignia, June 17, 2010

[DaveC426913]

The ONLY thing I have advised you of is that if NCL is not up to your standards then you should stick with the cruise lines are are. I have not provided you with any other advise or analysis.

Yes. I am to take it that, in your opinion, avoiding NCL specifically will be the most likely action to avoid the problem. You are not suggesting that avoiding cruises out of NY, or avoiding cruises in Feb will help me avoid the problem I'm encountering. In other words, NCL is likely the source of the problem in your opinion.

[DaveC426913]

We were on the same cruise as the OP and did not have the problems he is reporting.

Really? Cool. Did we cross paths? I was one of the hypnosis victims. Did you see any of Nadeen's shows? You might have seen me on stage.

 

 

Everyone's entitled to express their opinions,

OK, this is not about simply expressing my opinion though, this is about resolving a problem. I had a bad experience and wish to know what to change in the future. I'm not just bashing.

 

but where I get off the bus is when untruths are used to support the opinions. When someone says the lunch buffet offerings never changed, he is not telling the truth, and to me that makes the legitimacy of the entire argument suspect...and remember, I was on the same cruise he was, so I know that wasn't the case.

OK, you assumed I literally meant absolutely nothing in the entire buffet changed, via an exhaustive inventory?

 

Fine. 97% of the buffet was identical. As someone who does not eat soup, the other 97% of the buffet that was my option, didn't change. I'll just take your word that the soup was different.

[DaveC426913]

(Sorry for all the multiple threads, but really they're all separate thoughts).

 

Someone nearby just suggested one thing about this cruise that is different from all other cruises: it is the first cruise I've been on after the economy bubble burst.

 

Is it possbile that all cruiselines have suffered a similar belt-tightening? Is it possible that, if I took a Carnival or Princess cruise tomorrow, I would see just as dramatic a reduction in cruising quality?

[Cuizer2]

Yes. I am to take it that, in your opinion, avoiding NCL specifically will be the most likely action to avoid the problem. You are not suggesting that avoiding cruises out of NY, or avoiding cruises in Feb will help me avoid the problem I'm encountering. In other words, NCL is likely the source of the problem in your opinion.

 

I don't agree there is a problem. I only suggest that if NCL is not up to your standard that you not sail on NCL.

[DaveC426913]

I don't agree there is a problem.

It's not a vote! :rolleyes: If I say I had a problem with a cruise, that's not a matter of interpretation, silly!

 

I only suggest that if NCL is not up to your standard that you not sail on NCL.

OK. A platitude that, by the offering, comforts you but does not help me.

[Cuizer2]

It's not a vote! :rolleyes: If I say I had a problem with a cruise, that's not a matter of interpretation, silly!

 

 

OK. A platitude that, by the offering, comforts you but does not help me.

 

You said you had a problem - I didn't. You have been claiming I have said things that I have not. Other on your cruise, and other cruises around the same time as yours have not expressed the same problems that you have.

 

The only thing I have said is that if NCL is not up to your standard that you should stick with one of the cruise lines that is up to your standards. I have not provided you with any other advise or analysis, nor have I agreed with you that there was a problem in the first place.

[DaveC426913]

You have been claiming I have said things that I have not.

No. I have been interpreting your comments. Saying 'don't fly NCL' in response to the question 'what went wrong' is tantamount to 'NCL is what went wrong'.

Nor have I agreed with you that there was a problem in the first place.

Then you are at odds with the very premise of this thread. If you don't accept that, there is no way you can constructively contribute. So I guess thanks for playing.

[iheartbda]

(Sorry for all the multiple threads, but really they're all separate thoughts).

 

Someone nearby just suggested one thing about this cruise that is different from all other cruises: it is the first cruise I've been on after the economy bubble burst.

 

Is it possbile that all cruiselines have suffered a similar belt-tightening? Is it possible that, if I took a Carnival or Princess cruise tomorrow, I would see just as dramatic a reduction in cruising quality?

There's no way of telling since you may see things in a totally different way. I'm not sure anyone can answer your question or questions since people are offering their suggestion or opinions and none of them are satisfying you.;)

 

One thing I can say is, a number of the boards all have threads with complaints about cutbacks people are seeing. To some, the cutbacks are annoying at best, others, major deals and still others....eh.

[Cruisin_on_th_net]

Geez Dave, if I'd had your problems on any cruise, I'd be bashing flat out. Not looking for solutions! You're way more patient than I am!!!! Sorry to hear the cruise was such a disapointment.

 

That whole 40 minute wait thing would irk me no end. I agree with the comment about you guys "not being forced to spend money on 2 for one drinks" but; I wonder what else you're meant to do for 40 minutes of twiddling your thumbs when you weren't expecting and shouldn't have had to wait???? :confused: How else are you meant to fill in time on vacation just before dinner??? I think it's a deliberate ploy, which is why it would irk me too.

 

I wouldn't bother trying to look for solutions, just ping that line off and cruise elsewhere!

[PAcruiser116]

I agree with the previous poster...not only do you have a great attitude about your unhappy cruise, but you have kept a great sense of humor with some of the people who have been quite rude to you on this thread. You did not come across as bashing but simply looking for an answer to a question. I'm sorry you had a bad experience (especially because we PAY for these cruises to enjoy yourselves...and food is supposed to be INCLUDED, so it should be enjoyable without having to pay extra).

 

I have read a lot of negative reviews about food and freestyle dining on NCL, even before reading your thread. I came to the conclusion that I would probably not try NCL because it just does not sound appealing to me and would rather spend a little more to not have these problems (and yes, they sound like problems to me). A friend of mine is going on the Jade this summer, so we'll see! Now, I have not gone on my first cruise yet, so maybe I can't comment..but I've gone away, out to dinner, etc etc and if I'm paying for food and service I would expect my food to be warm and edible.

 

Normally, I don't respond to things like this, but the level of rudeness in this thread got to me! lol :-) Hopefully your next cruise is happier!

[njhorseman]

Really? Cool. Did we cross paths? I was one of the hypnosis victims. Did you see any of Nadeen's shows? You might have seen me on stage.

 

I didn't see those shows. I don't find stage hynotists in the least bit entertaining.

 

 

OK, this is not about simply expressing my opinion though, this is about resolving a problem. I had a bad experience and wish to know what to change in the future. I'm not just bashing.

 

OK, you assumed I literally meant absolutely nothing in the entire buffet changed, via an exhaustive inventory?

 

Fine. 97% of the buffet was identical. As someone who does not eat soup, the other 97% of the buffet that was my option, didn't change. I'll just take your word that the soup was different.

 

It was not just soups that changed daily. There were also differrent hot entrees. No exhaustve inventory was necessary...all that was needed is a quick glance at what was laid out on the buffet. And if the buffet selection didn't please you, you could have eaten lunch in the dining room, which had a lunch menu that changed daily.

 

 

My comments are noted above in red.

[Deckhandoug]

I don't like NCL's food either

[NEW 2 CRUISIN]

What makes you think you're missing anything? Should I expect lousy food and restaurants? I could list more details, but I don't see the point.

 

Yes, the food and food service was by far the biggest complaint. By contrast (and to check myself that I'm not just unilaterally complaining), we had no complaint with our room, excursions, bars, entertainemtn, ship condition and about a dozen other factors.

 

What makes me think I missed something???

 

Perhaps because you started out your post by saying:

 

"I'm trying to figure out exactly what was the problem - the cruise line, the cruise style, the itinerary or perhaps the type of passenger."

 

Then it turns out it was apparently just the food!

 

:rolleyes:

[DaveC426913]

...not only do you have a great attitude about your unhappy cruise, but you have kept a great sense of humor with some of the people who have been quite rude to you on this thread. You did not come across as bashing but simply looking for an answer to a question.

Thank you. To you and several others for recognizing that I've been pretty diligent about staying constructive and on-topic in a place that is self-acknowledged as strongly pro-biased.

[DaveC426913]

What makes me think I missed something???

 

Perhaps because you started out your post by saying:

 

"I'm trying to figure out exactly what was the problem - the cruise line, the cruise style, the itinerary or perhaps the type of passenger."

 

Then it turns out it was apparently just the food!

 

:rolleyes:

Huh. You are missing the point then. And in over 60 posts, you haven't picked it up again.

 

My question is, and always has been: to what do I attribute my experiences?

 

I have been trying to determine what, specifically, to avoid in the future. I am allowing for the possibility that it may not be the cruise line itself that is the root cause. I'm trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

 

Addendum: "just" the food? I guess to you, the food on a cruise is just a detail.

[uppitycats]

Actually, to me (your comment wasn't directed to me), the food IS just a detail. I don't expect any venue that has to feed 2,000+ people a day to be able to create gourmet meals. Or even really good meals. Just food. And so when I DO find a really good meal (on my last NCL cruise the lamb chops were exquisite!), I'm quick to talk about it.

 

I don't cruise for the food. You apparently consider it very important. So again..I really don't get your issue. If you don't like the food that you get on NCL, then go elsewhere. No one has suggested that you MUST COMMIT to any particular cruise line, and there are lots of options. You're beating a dead horse. This whole thread is silly. "What went wrong" is that the food on NCL did not meet your expectations...and it won't ever likely do so. So go elsewhere.

 

(By the way I cruise for itinerary, coupled with price. Never food, or entertainment.)

[NEW 2 CRUISIN]

Huh. You are missing the point then. And in over 60 posts, you haven't picked it up again.

 

My question is, and always has been: to what do I attribute my experiences?

 

I have been trying to determine what, specifically, to avoid in the future. I am allowing for the possibility that it may not be the cruise line itself that is the root cause. I'm trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

 

Addendum: "just" the food? I guess to you, the food on a cruise is just a detail.

 

Nope... I got the point, alright. :rolleyes:

 

My post was a response to your POST #10.

However your story has morphed over the next 50+ posts was not being addressed.

 

Your issue, if you haven't figured it out yet, is the particular food served on the particular ship that you sailed on a particular day. In your opinon, it was bad. I get it.

 

To look for deeper "root causes" is just plain silly.

Food IS subjective, and if it was ALWAYS that bad on EVERY NCL ship, they would be sailing empty every day - which they are not.

 

MY addendeum: The food is a very MINOR detail of any cruise I am on. We've sailed on many lines, and have always been able to find plenty to satisfy us.

 

Good Luck to you in your quest! :)

[luddite]

Huh. You are missing the point then. And in over 60 posts, you haven't picked it up again.

 

My question is, and always has been: to what do I attribute my experiences?

 

I have been trying to determine what, specifically, to avoid in the future. I am allowing for the possibility that it may not be the cruise line itself that is the root cause. I'm trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

 

Addendum: "just" the food? I guess to you, the food on a cruise is just a detail.

 

I've been reading this thread. I'll ring in now.

 

"Freestyle' really has nothing to do with the buffet. All lines have 'em and had 'em before Freestyle was begun.

Most of your complaints relate to food issues, with a LOT of them pertaining to the buffet. I'll not make a judgement call on why anyone eats at a buffet. My experience has been that it's not worth my time.

I appreciate the problem you have with getting cool food from the buffet and that it's a problem. Remember, I don't have this problem. ONE of the reasons I don't have that problem is simply because I know it's a common problem.

 

Sunbeam and Holsum bread are not really considered bread around much of the world. Your description of stale bead sounds very much like you got GOOD bread.

 

The ship cannot accommodate every passenger in the MDR at 6:45 PM. The only time I've seen longer than 10 minutes wait was on a 'formal' night, with lobster on the menu, when it was raining, on a sea day. The MDR got crowded at peak dinner time. Peak would be 6:30-7:30. It is possible to encounter a wait then. We adjust our schedule accordingly and it doesn't become a problem.

It sounds like you actually believe that they manufactured a wait-list with the intent of conning you into a bar visit. C'mon!

 

After one NCL cruise, everyone knows about the 'shrimp cocktail' in the MDR. Salad shrimp in remoulade sauce is a stretch, certainly. Now you know it's not what you thought it would be.

 

I am wondering if your meal choices were all of the same things that you would cook/order at home or if you made some adventureous decisions and decided to have things that you've never seen or heard of?

NCL ships have a lot of menu options in the dining rooms. It sounds as if you continually went back to a buffet that you were unhappy with from the get-go. There's a joke there, but I'll refrain.

 

Someone wondered if part of the problem was the departure port. Frankly, that could be part of the problem. The crew gets tired of nonsense after a while. The Dawn out of NY had some problems last year. It seems as though the that crew just gave up with an attitude of " I don't want the cheese, just let me out of the trap." I was on the Dawn earlier last year and experienced nothing of what we heard about.

 

The 'nickel and dime' actions are not exclusive to NCL. And, 'nickel and dime' is an inaccurate term for the line wishing to sell you extras, but that's another topic.

 

Cruises are pretty lpw-priced right now. There is a lot of competition for passengers. Food is obviously one of the areas where they can save some money to allow the low fares.

That said, our recent NCL Spirit trip provided us some fine meals ( see my review on NCL threads), including some bread that is simply not available where we live.

I'm not about to say 'give NCL another chance'. All of your food may indeed have been horribly prepared and cold. I have never experienced that.

 

All that you can do is put your nickel on the counter and tell 'em what kind of candy you want.

[DaveC426913]

Your issue, if you haven't figured it out yet, is the particular food served on the particular ship that you sailed on a particular day.

No. I was clear: every day, many aspects of food quality.

[DaveC426913]

I've been reading this thread. I'll ring in now.

Thanks. This is unbaised and objective and gives me some larger framework of cruising in which to understand my experiences.

[luddite]

Thanks. This is unbaised and objective and gives me some larger framework of cruising in which to understand my experiences.

 

And people say that I'm not a nice guy. :)

There are some things we've learned. CC can help with that.